Minimum Wage

>raising the minimum wage will cause increased unempl-

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evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf
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That's not how the labor market works. You're a retard confirmed.

first of all, tutor 2 u? really nigga.
Second of all, raising the minimum wage may increase wages and employment in some labour markets. Like those of a monopsonistic employer.

>this is a hypothetical perfect labour market. not realistic

labor demand is not inelastic though

a minimum wage is a tax on hiring the unskilled

the minimum wage was originally introduced to exclude subhumans from the work force.

>raising the minimum wage may increase wages
thanks bong, god save the queen

do you even economics? raising MW always increases unemployment if the MW is higher than the equalibrium. However its not always a bad thing as firms will invest in capital instead of human labour and will be more productive long term and be more competitive.

god help me im actually going to site a source on pol because not a lot of people know this

>hen California legislators voted to raise the statewide minimum wage to $15 per hour by 2022, labor activists cheered. Discounting fears that a $15 minimum might cost some low-wage workers their jobs, activists and their political allies celebrated a victory for fairness and economic justice.

>Progressive labor activists took a very different view 100 years ago, when 15 states established America's first minimum wages. Labor reformers then believed that a legal minimum would hand a raise to deserving white Anglo-Saxon men, and a pink slip to their undeserving competitors: “racially undesirable” immigrants, the mentally and physically disabled, and women. The original progressives hailed minimum-wage-caused job losses among these groups as a positive benefit to the U.S. economy and to Anglo-Saxon racial integrity.

>monopsony
lel

not an argument
>first of all, tutor 2 u? really nigga.
The graphs and consequences of them are consistent with their expected outcomes. What's the issue with it?

Source?

Has unemployment ever increased in the long run when the minimum wage increases? I'm pretty sure this is a debunked right wing libertarian talking point. Businesses still need to run or they'll choose to shut down. High minimum wage might lead to automation but i see no issue with that. If a robot takes your job, you're useless.

It's not that simple. Other factors such as unionization effect hiring and firing of workers, and there's also the option of reducing hours to what's needed.
>hurr durr I'm going to write off an entire economic concept
lel

So in a time where racism and white supremacy was the norm, people thought that a change to the wage structure would have an effect on non-whites and women? I guess we should ignore the laws and ideals that have changed in the last 100 years.

Minimum wage usually doesn't go to far away from inflation, so, so far no it hasnt cause massive amounts of unemployment long term, but a jump to $15 would. As buisnesses would invest in capital instead and automate as you said.

Price controls are one thing that will legitimately fuck your economy up, Venezuala's figuring that out right now. The US experimented with it, during the Great Depression, and during the oil crisis in the 70's

It's just a bad idea overall

>raising minimum wage increases demand for labor
What the fuck am I reading?

>people work and get paid more
>people use that money in the economy to buy products and services
>more people are able to demand those products and services, thus there is increased demand for those products and services to be supplied by employees that produce those products and services

>If a robot takes your job, you're useless.

it's no surprise that inflated wages will lead to slimming of the workforce.
While it might have been cheaper to just let a large workforce chuck along - that is absolutely not profitable with a high minimum wage. Managers slimming down the workers and utilizing less workers with more workload will make more sense.

We are already seeing this trend in the west. in the past you could pay people to clean your windows or carry bags for you, and it wasn't prohibitively expensive.

>the general public needs to pay a higher "work tax"
>minwage workers feed it into the corporations
>they keep most of it

But the overhead on pruducts and production increases, more things are sold online to reduce human capital needed, more things are produce overseas since American labor is too expensive...and the bottom 20% suffer

Italy has literally no minimum wage but the labor maket is basically the same as everywhere else.

You're a cunt OP.

Fucked up part is you're probably for free trade too...if you don't see how the two interact, you shouldn't vote

And now hes a trump supporter, you did it again Sup Forums

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>the general public needs to pay a higher "work tax"
If you're talking about inflation, prices increase at a dramatically lower rate compared to the increased income.
>minwage workers feed it into the corporations
>they keep most of it
Different problem entirely. Higher taxes takes care of this.

the elite spilling some of their money close to home.

poor workers making more money means they're suffering.. lol funny how the workers love the higher min wage

the only people complaining about it are the billionaire globalist corporate shills and their useful idiot right wing retards

What makes you think the demand for labor is inelastic? Especially with how cheap outsourcing and automation are becoming

-oyment.

inb4 Seattle

to late

they'll also pressure the workers they have to work harder and more efficient. It's already happening.

>But the overhead on pruducts and production increases
Not significantly one way or the other.
>more things are sold online to reduce human capital needed
Online sales take advantage of tax loopholes and lobby the government to get an unfair lead on the competition. It could still happen anyway though, and that would be up to to the market if that continues.
>more things are produce overseas since American labor is too expensive
Tariffs and sensible trade deals fixes this.
>and the bottom 20% suffer
Any suffering would be much less than now with people living paycheck to paycheck.
I'm not.

In Norway the minimum wage is actually 0.00kr which is causing more and more rapefugees and even worse swedes to flood the country and BTFO the poorest here cause its cheaper for Mr. Sjekelsteen to pay his goym. Take that as you will.

B-b-b-b-but someone has to make those machines! The net amount of jobs will increase! REEEE

FUCK!

Any way unemployment rate in Seattle was 2.2% in 2007. The Seattle argument is not only untrue but also homosexual.

You corporate shills promised me job losses.

rapefugees should not be allowed to work.

hey shill, the billionaire globalists u shill for are going to use those machines regardless of the min wage

>economically punish the creation of jobs

>THE JOBS WILL INCREASE !!

ya that's a serious problem

when workers have more money, they spend it in the local economy, thus creating jobs

Go ask for a raise pussy.

Labor demand has increasingly monopolized because of outsourcing and automation. Local retail has been demolished for the most part, and since there's a need to work to avoid poverty and a need for business to have workers to operate it's much more inelastic than it is elastic. Best proof of this is wage stagnation and how little wages change despite productivity and profit earned.

they spend it on products shipped from china & manufactured by corporations at the lowest possible jobs because the minimum wage makes employing workers expensive

>shill
I suppose that's what I get for shitposting :(

Sounds like a free energy machine.

>Those employment dips during recessions.
>Those employment increases after the recessions.

How does the same Seattle loving syrup nigger end up in every one of these threads? This level of same fagging your own thread at a leaf larp

What the fuck do you suggest they do? They mostly don't work and live off gibs. So do many Norwegians up north. That's your ideal plan?

>What the fuck do you suggest they do?
They need to fuck off

It's well-established economics.

there can be no future for them in norway.

>people compare prices

this is not an argument

people price shop regardless of the min wage is.

You're just a paid corporate shill trying to convince right wing neckbeards that they should work for Mr. Shekelberg for $5/hour

u shill promised me job losses and u got btfo youtube.com/watch?v=8wAa9DqHZtM

Unskilled labour is extremely elastic, you dumb fuck, due to the ease with which it can be automated.
Enjoy your McDonalds E-Cashier.

is it the obama leaf?

LOL so you just admitted that the higher min wage doesn't kill jobs. LOL u just btfo the entire right wing corporate shill argument against raising the min wage

>people price shop regardless of the min wage is.

This is a greater problem, yes.

Still if you take money from the middle class and give it to retail people, the same cycle just repeats one more time.

From the perspective of the middle class it's mostly lost money to pay more for the retail worker. Lost to the elite and their schemes.

Doesn't matter either way, it will lead to price inflation. The only reason shit is so cheap is because it needs to be that way for poor people.

I run a business. I charge as much as I can for what I sell. The only reason I lower prices is to increase sales volume by being able to reach a larger (poorer) customer base. If my costs rise because of higher labor, prices will go up. If this labor has more to spend, prices will go up.

I love you lefty retards posting graphs you barely comprehend from your college freshman econ 101 course, as if you've found away to make everyone magically richer, so you can make more money folding shirts at Old Navy. baka

You're not taking money from the middle class. You're taking money from the billionaire globalist elites that you shills are paid to support

>You're not taking money from the middle class. You're taking money from the billionaire globalist elites that you shills are paid to support

Maybe. Or they just pass on the cost and the general customer needs to pay for the hike. In which case they have paid for it.

seattle CPI is 2.5%

The inflation argument has been thoroughly debunked.

Paid shills have convinced right wing retards to never ask for a raise because of """inflation""'

all the money has to go to mr. shekelberg lol

The working class receiving the higher wage is the general customer u filthy shill.

It's so obvious that you're a paid shill, shilling against higher wages for American workers

You're here to protect billions in corporate profits

Pretty sure man.
No. Strong economies create more jobs. That is all.
In fact by your “logic” a lower minimum wage creates less unemployment.

But this response isn’t really for you. Hopefully it will serve to educate people who for what ever reason believe this fallacy.

You can't model the labor market like an homogeneous good where there are no information issues.

You're so retarded that u don't realize that you're debunking the entire right wing corporate shill argument that the $15/hour min wage kills jobs

Fuck off obamaleaf and get a job.

>A graph says it so it must be true!
>Fuck everyone who worked their ass off to get paid well!!

You're going to end up in the ghetto Jamal and this is why. Sadly I'll be joining you. The big difference is I'll have my guns and you won't you liberal pile of jackass shit.

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No

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Fucking bump this comment you fucking commies

Hopefully this is enough (you)s for (you).
Why do you keep doing this to yourself Obama Leaf? I bet you are probably a decent person in real life.

It is an argument mate. I run a business, while you sit on your ass on this website all day spewing leftwing bullshit economics as if you have any practical knowledge of anything.

This is why I and others here ignore you. And when people don't want to engage with you, you think that's some sort of victory, because you're retarded.

Hire people and run a successful company, and then maybe I might give two shits about what you have to say about labor and price inflation.

If you can't afford to pay your workers more than min wage, then you're a shitty ass businessman u realize that.

I am thank you.

>really nigga.
Is saying "nigga" actually common in the UK?

>labour
Fucking common wealth scum

>if labor is inelastic
That’s a big if

>inelastic
One unit change in price evokes a less than 1 corresponding unit change in demand

Labor inelasticity depends on an absence of labor surplus.

>so yea, we can have nice things if there weren’t shitskins around fucking up our labor markets

>we could have affordable healthcare, shorter work weeks, better benefits, more prosperity, and a better standard of living with out these fucking mud people.

>all roads lead to Rome.

ALL ROADS LEAD TO WHITE NATIONALISM

400,000 jobs aren't expected to be cut in California because of the minimum wage or anything.

I believe this is what OP is talking about

In an inelastic market, workers actually get more money total with a minimum wage.
So some people are laid off, but the net increase in wage for those remaining is greater.

It means that, as a collective, workers are getting more money than they were before. Even if a few people lost their jobs

What if the worker doesn't deserve more than minimum wage? The reason why they call it non-skilled labor is the fact that anyone who is able bodied and even most that aren't are capable of doing the job without any type of training at all.

As for being a shitting businessman, I think you have it backwards. Paying as little as you can for labor and getting the most productivity you can out of an employee is what makes someone a good businessman.
It MIGHT make someone a shitty human being but definitely not a shitty businessman. Being forced to pay a person more than they are worth forces the employer to be more creative with their hiring practices.

Look what happened with the AFA mandate for employers to provide medical insurance for employees. This hurt most minimum wage employees the most. Any hope of receiving overtime vanished almost over night. It became less expensive to hire more minimum wage employees and only give them just enough hours that they couldn't be considered full time. Many employees lost benefits because of government meddling. Unfortunately these aren't the stories you see in the news because Boogie's ability to have medical insurance by far outweighs the single mom now having to work two jobs because her 40-50 hours a week at the diner turned into 30 so the owner of the diner didn't have to provide her with insurance.

>ACA*

...

Workers are producing far more value than they are being paid for

Conservashits are literal good soyim cucks

Now show the graph for low-wage workers. Seattle's recent hiring boom isn't for jobs at $15/hr.

Are you implying then that one tech deserves the compensation for 100 laborers?

If 10 laborers can be replaced by 1 machine, and 10 machines can be serviced by 1 tech, it seems as if you want that tech to receive the benefits of 100 laborers would have made.

That's not a rational expectation. The productivity vs. pay argument is as disingenuous as the gender pay gap if you take the aggregated labor force with no other context.

I suggest, if you are truly concerned, you ask your elected officials that the next time your city needs to dig a ditch that they hire 100 people using spoons instead of a dude in a tractor. Now that's a guaranteed job policy.

(Or at least demand that the tractor driver is paid as if he were 100 people with spoons.)

As an employer I can tell you that most of the graphs you like to produce are mostly false because the fact is that employees are human. Humans for the most part will always take the road less traveled. The easy path. Do the absolutely bare minimum to keep the job they have.

In my experience in management and ownership is you may be lucky if 1 in 5 employees are self motivated enough to take the initiative to learn more to elevate themselves in the workplace. Most employees have very little ambition and I hate to say it the late genXers and millennials are by far the least motivated workers I have ever had to deal with. These aren't just minimum wage workers that I employ. These are people who must have particular knowledge in this field of work and despite the fact that they are giving the ability to learn, and do so somewhat, they prefer to stagnate their own progress.

I could go on an on about the quality of workers I've seen in the last 20 years, but for such basic work I need to get done the hiring pool is horrible.

OP is talking about a specific case with inelastic demand.

I laid it out here:

The work week should be shortened. $20hr for a 20 hour work week. Part time is literally the new full time due to automation and this should also be taken into consideration with raising the minimum wage.

(((very credible new study)))

oy vey good soyim

don't u paid shills ever find it odd that the workers aren't complaining about their higher wages. they love it. the only people complaining are billionaire globalist elites and their paid shills.

Seattle’s crazy restaurant boom
seattletimes.com/pacific-nw-magazine/seattles-crazy-restaurant-boom/

where are the job losses u shills promised?

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Yeah should def be a 30-35 hour work week

companies try so hard not to give full time anyways

>Seattle’s crazy restaurant boom
Again, this is a product of the current economy and not minimum wage. That's pretty much what your graph shows. There's zero correlation to minimum wage in the graph.

>where are the job losses u shills promised?
When the bottom falls out again and we go into another recession is when you will see it. Right now businesses can afford to hire more people because the economy is allowing for it. Once we hit the next recession and people can't afford to spend $75 for two combination plates and two margaritas most of those restaurant employees you're talking about will lose their jobs.

A recession is when you get the most productivity out of an employee. A recession is an employer's market. The person that's willing to work the hardest for the least amount of money is who will survive the next recession. The people with more skill than dropping a plate of food on the table or taking out the garbage will survive the next recession.

All you're doing is admitting that the higher min wage didn't kill jobs. You're debunking the entire right wing corporate shill argument and not even realizing it.

I'm actually embarrassed for you

The real minimum wage is always $0/hr. The study from the University of Washington shows:
> the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance caused hours worked by low-skilled workers (i.e., those earning under $19 per hour) to fall by 9.4% during the three quarters when the minimum wage was $13 per hour, resulting in a loss of 3.5 million hours worked per calendar quarter
>Alternative estimates show the number of low-wage jobs declined by 6.8%
> we compute that the average low-wage employee was paid $1,897 per month. The reduction in hours would cost the average employee $179 per month, while the wage increase would recoup only $54 of this loss, leaving a net loss of $125 per month (6.6%), which is sizable for a low-wage worker.
evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER Working Paper.pdf

Besides 1 failed debunked study, do you have any evidence that the $15/hour min wage was bad for workers?

No of course not. The workers love it. The only people complaining are the paid shills.

Seattle has 2.6% unemployment, booming employment, booming wages, and tons of full time jobs but u retarded shills are always MUH FEELS.

You retards don't even understand how a labor market works do you? When you have low unemployment, employers have to offer higher wages, better benefits, more full time, etc.

This is fucking basic economics. How do u not know this shit?

I realize there's no reason to argue the point you keep making here other than to say you can't see past tomorrow. You also haven't really define what you mean by "kill." Currently minimum wage is $10.50 an hour in Seattle for restaurant workers. How many jobs will it KILL when it hits $15. Better to know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

You have still yet to admit that the unemployment rate in Seattle has nothing at all to do with minimum wage even though its been proven false every time you repost the same graph.

>Seattle min wage is $15/hour
>no job losses
>booming employment
>no hours lost
>workers love it

but good soyim look i have a fake study saying higher wages are bad for workers even tho they love it

how does anyone even take u shills seriously?

lern2eco-
oh wait