Story starts out preaching that birthright means nothing and even the biggest retard can become something great if he...

>story starts out preaching that birthright means nothing and even the biggest retard can become something great if he tries hard enough
>HURR DURR YOU GUYS ARE THE UMPTEENTH REINCARNATIONS OF NINJA CAIN AND ABEL WHO ARE DESCENDED FROM THE FUCKING SPACE GOD
I've been an unapologetic shonenfag for a very long time and this is probably one of the worst story developments I've ever read.

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It gets worse in Boruto

>part one preaches that hard work can overcome talent or birthright
>MC's own son decides "fuck hard work, I'm gonna cheat my rite of passage by using technology"

Is kishimoto trying to tell us something?

>greentext
>all caps

Nothing more cancerous than the Naruto spammer

>cancer calling something cancerous

>naruto used to beat opponents with crafty tactics

MY NINDO MY NINJA WAY

>naruto now about abusing infinte meme "kyubui" magic

>says the Narutard

>samefag

It was infinite kyuubi magic from the start. Normal people in the Narutoverse can't make that many shadow clones, not to mention all his hax during the major fights (tailed beast mode with Haku, secondary chakra stream against Neji, enough chakra to summon megatoad and lage bunshin a big ass fox during the Gaara fight. Naruto always had more power than most of the cast, channeling it was the problem

>start with ninjutsu
>move up to Kekkei Genkai
>scratch all of that in favor of who can make the LARGEST explosions with Magic Gundam

Samefag

Fuck off narutards

He starts with fox powers so your conception was wrong to begin with.

Besides, Gaara beats Rock Lee, so the hard work thing was debunked pretty early on.

It's not necessarily just kyuubi bullshit, he's also aided by the fact that those of the Uzumaki clan naturally have unusually large reserves of chakra

And he also gets BTFO when that mindset ends up fucking everything up. The movie is about him learning to make something of himself as well as respect his father's legacy

It just shows how mangakas are incompetent storytellers. Whenever a series gets popular they unnecessarily prolong and drag the story while also whoring out their bithces for money grabbing.
Instead of believing in themselves to create another successful manga they try to bank as much as possible with the one they got luck with. For that they are fucking cowards.

Name one major series that has a well written last act to ending. I dare you

Ass class.

Fullmetal alchemist?

I was just about to say.

>using greentext to call greentext cancerous

Wh-what did he mean by this?

Gintama so far

What Death Note could've been.

One Piece

the only thing that's ending in One Piece is Big Mom's dreams of a perfect wedding

One Piece is literally the kind of shit series that user was talking about.

One Piece hasn't gone off the scale yet. Things are consistent.

Mihawk, which was introduced 30 chapters in, is still a fucking god.

That's shounenshit for you.

Yeah but the author is dragging it along to make more shekels instead of developing the story at a proper pace.

Gintama doesn't do this. Thankfully

Attack on Titan feels dragged out, it was supposed to be a short story, but then they dragged that shit half a fucking decade.

One Piece I'm not so sure.. Every detail that he "drags" out always pays off at the end..

Nice bait, thread, OP. You got me.

Kuina

Because of the setting and the way Oda writes, the slow pacing isn't really that bad. He doesn't just waste time, it drags out because he puts a lot in every arc. I'm the last to defend stereotypical shonen but One Piece really doesn't do that bad. I will admit it has declined somewhat in the last few years, but there's still over 15 years worth of pretty good story.

I agree with this but i think it is on pace to have a "proper" ending. The pacing is a separate issue

Lee was all about hard work and consistently failed.

Anything after book 27 is just crazy fan fiction honestly.
Shippuden is all right I guess with the sasori arc but after that it gets too silly and deviates from the original idea of cool well thought out ways to outwit the opponent and instead takes the DBZ route in the fights which goes against almost everything that was appealing about Naruto.

Yeah, I'm finishing it now and shit's gotten ridiculous. Then you look back and realize Naruto was never really a good-for-nothing, just a gimped retard. Despite the underdoggish spew, he was *always* a special snowflake and the mangaka went all out because he obviously wanted to make the series into an epic.

All well, made me appreciate other characters not Naruto and Sasuke. Seeing Hinata, Guy, even Sakura try their best was nice.

RIP kisame

I always understood this from the start, kind of.
"But wait, if a genius works hard, he's gonna be better." Which is why the most admirable characters in the story were Rock Lee and Might Guy.
So I have no issues with what happened.
They also had an issue with destiny and fate to deal with, but that simply explains why how Guy had the power to actually stop the war, but it had to be Naruto that would end the entire cycle.

No, the whole aesop during the first part of Naruto was "Hard work can surpass natural talent and where you come from doesn't matter", that's why Naruto was some orphan kid everyone hated who sucked at ninjaing, had an evil fox inside him and had to work hard and be cunning in order to win while his rival Sasuke came from a super prestigious family and was born with OP powers.
Even when Naruto abused the Kyuubi's chakra to pull a lot of shit the aesop still kind of made sense because he still had to work hard in order to not get fucked up by it. But then they shitted all over that aesop when it was revealed that Naruto and Sasuke were both the descendants of the strongest ninja bloodbline and pretty much fated to become Jesus.
Fuck, the whole deal with Neji was that he thought that where and from whom you were born was everything and Naruto supposedly proved him wrong, even though in the end he was 100% right.

>>story starts out preaching that birthright means nothing and even the biggest retard can become something great if he tries hard enough
It was literally never about that though. Naruto has always been about bonds, love vs hate and all that.


It's hilarious how Sup Forums jerk themselves off about being smart when they don't understand Naruto.

>FMA
>well written

For me, it didn't have to go there. I understood that Neji was right pretty early since Naruto had ninetails chakra in him. His defeating Neji was basically not all due to hard work, for example.

They brought up the "hard work vs talent" during most of the first part. Your birthright defining if you were shit or not was even Neji's whole thing.

Neji didn't give two fucks about hard work, his deal was that he thought that even if you were super talented or worked super hard you would still be shit compared to the one dude who was lucky enough to be born in the right place.

>No, the whole aesop during the first part of Naruto was "Hard work can surpass natural talent and where you come from doesn't matter"
No it wasn't. Neji was a genius but he worked harder than everyone else, Sasuke was a genius but he worked harder than everyone else.

>that's why Naruto was some orphan kid everyone hated who sucked at ninjaing, had an evil fox inside him and had to work hard and be cunning in order to win while his rival Sasuke came from a super prestigious family and was born with OP powers.

Use your brain for 5 minutes, the village fear Naruto BECAUSE he is dangerous, because he has POWER the same power that almost destroyed the entire village.

By your stupid argument the village should worship Naruto because they think he's the fox and they wouldn't want to anger him, instead they don't give a shit and treat him like trash.

Gaara was the son of the Kazekage, the most powerful kid in the village, yet everyone hated him. It's not about power you mongoloid, it's about hate.

>Even when Naruto abused the Kyuubi's chakra to pull a lot of shit the aesop still kind of made sense because he still had to work hard in order to not get fucked up by it.
Just like Sasuke, just like Neji.

>But then they shitted all over that aesop when it was revealed that Naruto and Sasuke were both the descendants of the strongest ninja bloodbline and pretty much fated to become Jesus.
Except the point of Naruto is NOT POWER it's about bonds, Hashirama and Madara were powerful but they never stopped hate, they never managed unification. Naruto was super powerful but he only got support after Ino showed everyone his past and suffering

>Fuck, the whole deal with Neji was that he thought that where and from whom you were born was everything and Naruto supposedly proved him wrong, even though in the end he was 100% right.
The point about Neji is that despite him being more powerful than every other Hyuga he's still the main branch's little bitch

>They brought up the "hard work vs talent" during most of the first part.
No, they brought that up with Rock Lee and Gaara BTFO him, then Rock Lee proceeded to admit he was just being arrogant.

>Your birthright defining if you were shit or not was even Neji's whole thing.

Neji was more talented than Hinata but Hinata still had power over him you stupid fuck. Again your hard work vs talent means nothing here.

It was about those things you said and most definitely what OP said too. "Kekkei Genkai" was thrown around about all these amaxing young members of ninja families and we were constantly reminded at every turn how Naruto is supposed to be second-rate because he's supposedly the exact opposite. Let's not forget Rock Lee and the parallels he drew. You DID watch the series didn't you?

The fact you're trying to be pretentious about Naruto of all things is amusing as all hell.

Wow, you sure are working hard to act like you know something, but it doesn't matter as I have descended from a legendary line of 17 oldfags and shitposters. You are no match for me.

No matter what you do, you're coming off as a massive newfag who only hears what he wants to hear.

Like he said, even for all his hard work and talent Neji was shit.

what in the hell? This was ment to reply to

In chapter 1 Naruto learns a super secret S tier jutsu and does more clones than Sasuke will ever manage to do in his entire life. In 1(ONE) night

It's not about power, you're looking at it with the mind of a retarded child, the same mindset Naruto had in the beginning of the manga when he was screaming I want to be the strongest and become hokage.

Later on Naruto learns it's not about power, you become someone people look up to by being a good person, by caring about others, by helping others.

Defining yourself despite your circumstances was the theme of part one it kinda sucks when the themes don't spread through the whole story but in second part even naruto's own focus goes from himself to sasuke, so it's kind of forgivable.

The whole show was rotten from the beginning though. As an unsupervised retard with infinite chakra it's strange that he has never tried any complicated jutsus. Like I can imagine a retard like narudo trying all kinds of random seal combinations and finding out that he is capable of some big ones.

>this autism

...

Holy shit, you sure are convinced that you're the only person who knows about a damn chinese marked toilet paper roll that got turned into a Nepalese oscillating photograph.

Your autism is legendary. Sounds like another part of the Nurutu fanbase.

>two people agree with him but state there's more
>"No, that's impossible, there's no way that there is anyone right but me!"
>"How dare they say I was right and say that there's something else too! I'll show them!"

>it's not about power
Yeah, except they wouldn't have defeated the evil magical alien if they both him and Sasuke weren't the descendants of the Ninja Jesus Brothers.
And the villains would have failed like little bitches if they weren't the descendants of the Ninja Jesus Brothers or weren't using the powers they took from a descendant of Ninja Cain and Abel. Literally the only big villain who wasn't using some Ninja Jesus Brothers bullshit was Orochimaru and it was established early on that he was completely outclassed by Itachi who GUESS WHAT? was a descendant of the Ninja Jesus Brothers.
Fuck, mention ONE character that did anything important who wasn't somehow related to the Ninja Jesus Brothers aside from Orochimaru and Kabuto.
Bonds my ass, all the people who did shit in the story managed to do it because they either came from an OP bloodline or stole the powers of someone from an OP bloodline. If anything bonds were a source of conflict since the whole story happens because the Uchiha are fucks who get too emotional when someone they care about dies and go full autism.

>shipping trash out of nowhere

wew lad, nice way of showing how retarded you are

>MC's own son decides "fuck hard work, I'm gonna cheat my rite of passage by using technology"

Well yeah, he's supposed to be like Sasuke at the start of the Boruto Movie.
That's sorta the joke that Sasuke and Naruto have to each-other about it. Naruto thinks he's like Sauce, Sauce thinks he's like Naruto until they both come to the conclusion that he's effectively his own ninja.

Just a question. So right after Hinata confesses to Naruto in the Pain fight, does anyone else know which eps had their relationship move forward after that?

>Yeah, except they wouldn't have defeated the evil magical alien if they both him and Sasuke weren't the descendants of the Ninja Jesus Brothers.
They only managed to do that because of Kakashi and Sakura. In the end they couldn't do it by themselves(they FAILED when they tried to), again BONDS.

Naruto is a battle manga so there's a lot of fights, but that doesn't change the message of the story, you're just too retarded to look at anything past powerlevels.

Obito only lost because Naruto talked no jutsu
Pain was the same, without talking and mutual understanding half the village would've remained dead.


Just admit you can't understand shonen manga

>MC's own son decides "fuck hard work, I'm gonna cheat my rite of passage by using technology"
Oh, no! A ninja using underhanded tricks and fighting dirty! The horror!

You're missing user's point. Regardless of all that, the series DID ape up Naruto being the guy everyone counted out because he's, you know, such a failure, right? Their only fault is lacking the knowledge that boy is Ninja Jesus, so they had to witness Him and believe.

In truth, Kishi wanted it both ways.

>So right after Hinata confesses to Naruto in the Pain fight, does anyone else know which eps had their relationship move forward after that?
THE LAST movie

Naruto ignores Hinata for the rest of the manga after her confession, I mean they have that moment where she slaps him after Neji dies but it's not romantic, just support.

If it's romance it's only THE LAST, shame is awful and wasn't written by Kishi.

>we don't know who Metal Lee's mom is

Slam Dunk, Gash Bell, FMA and Rurouni Kenshin.

You know that bitch 1010 needs a rockhard one

But we know who his grandpa is.

>Blues Lee
>Rock Lee
>Metal Lee

Fuck off.

And don't forget how horrible using outside sources of any kind for power-ups is.

This shit went beyond retarded and reached a new dimension.

I'd just like to point out that at that point Naruto was just using his own Chakra reserves to make however many shadow clones he was making (most of the time at least).

Oh Jesus this

I'd argue that things didn't really change until at least after the Hidan and Kakuzu stuff. both of the Shikamaru vs Hidan fights were well planned out and Naruto vs Kakuzu showed that techniques still mattered at that point.

>butthurt autists buttmad because hard work means nothing and it's better to be born into a wealthy family than to try to beg for change and try starting a business that way
welcome to life, kids

Hard Work paying off was *definitely* a major theme in the first half.

>All of Lee and Gai's backstory

>Neji v Naruto

>Naruto constantly saying how he would work to become Hokage at any cost

Lel so mad

Might Guy was a pure hard work jounin and in the end, he was stronger than Kakashi.

It's not like he had access to any of the 9 tales chakra at the start of the series. He didn't couldn't even use a fraction of it until he literally watching his friend die in his arms.

Ushio and Tora

Not really. Naruto himself was gifted with immense chakra -- he always had a "gift". He just wasn't a genius when it came to fighting, though he got better as he aged

Lee and Gai are the only ones who qualify, but since it's not even the MC it's really not that major

>character has hax OP powers that could kill people effortlessly, even by accident
>lol let's throw rocks at him
Thanks Japan

This is why I don't acknowledge the part of Naruto that started with war against zombies. It's like it doesn't exist.

I could barely endure the revival of Pain victims but this was it.

Good thing it ended after the chunin exams then

the pain arc was a disaster

"oh by the by jiraya trained the strongest ninja ever!!!"

At least Naruto started off kinda making sense.

Bleach lost me almost immediately.

>You only have this power because you're borrowing someone else's!
>No, wait, it's because your dad is actually a former Captain of the Soul Society!
>Also, all of your friends conveniently have fucking super powers despite this shit being insanely rare on its own!
>mfw

I literally dropped the story as soon as everyone else that Ichigo brought over just so happened to also have a power.

I've got no issue with a plot that establishes that powers are fairly common, and the MC finds himself pitted against powerful enemies and they gradually scale up.

Hell, even in a setting where powers are rare I can buy the MC having them, and then making friends who also happen to have them by proxy of doing the same thing the MC is.

But for suddenly everyone in your close knit group of friends to have powers? That shit beggars belief and is only passable by the slimmest of margins if its a group thing a la Power Rangers. But random chance deigns that these people come together beforehand and then start shitting out magic woo-woo bullshit? Nah, I don't buy it senpai.

Are Naruto and Sasuke actually reincarnations of Ninja Jesuses (Jesi?) or do they just happen to be similar to their ancestors because of the shared bloodlines? Reincarnation seems kind of unfitting for that world, it mostly just seems like forcing every ninja student into groups of prodigy/retard/girl just breeds similar kinds of situations and people

Conceptually it wasn't bad, as it was a minor end point of Naruto's way - showing off everything he has learned, defeating pain and saving the village has got him acceptance and gratitude from village that he crave so much, but it was butchered in implementation.

I'm quite surprised that people hate the realism Naruto has in terms of life chances.
For example, while everyone has the opportunity to run for President, not everyone has the same chance of actually being able to be a President.
Hard work increases people's chances, but without something else to add to that, you probably can't get anywhere close to that top goal.

Meh, I liked the Pain arc. Before you knew it all didn't mean shit, the stakes seemed higher than ever, especially with Jiraiya and Kakashi dead

>I'm quite surprised that people hate the realism Naruto has in terms of life chances.
There's a dozen or more characters in the Naruto world whose life goal is/was to be ninja president

Well their souls are. Having some shared ancestry means those souls are going to heavily influence who you are

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Reincarnation

Not that guy, but at the onset this seemed reasonable.

You are dealing with a bunch of kids, of course they are going to shoot for the moon.

What shoulda happened was as the timeskips occurred, everyone pumped the brakes on those aspirations except for the necessary characters.

Also, antagonists don't necessarily count. They of course have some sort of end goal to control the world/country/kingdom/whatever because it's a shonen manga.

Friendly reminder that Naruto was never about "Hard work will beat talent"

The underaged autist that says that don't remember jackshit, i guess it was when naruto aired dubbed on TV they watched rock lee hard work in the chuunin exams against gaara, and somehow the forgot that he got destroyed by garaa at the end

Bonus points since rock lee lost again later in the show.

>comparing apples to oranges
Rock Lee couldn't ninjutsu which is an enormous handicap in world of Naruto.

> ninjutsu which is an enormous handicap in world of Naruto.

Did you miss guy 8 gates against madara?.

>The underaged autist that says that don't remember jackshit
You mean Naruto and Neji's entire fight during the exams?

Guy is different. Guy can actually do ninjutsu along with his taijutsu. Rock Lee literally has no ninjutsu ability.

>Guy can actually do ninjutsu

His greatest achievement is summoning a turtle, i dont remember him using any other kind of ninjutsu

you didn't find out that his dad was a captain until halfway through the story.

you find out his friends have powers halfway through the first arc.

Hard work can trump natural talent, HOWEVER if someone with natural talent works just as hard, you'll never be as good as him.