To work or not to work

Is there or should there be a societal standard for people having to work.

I'm young and naive, but I've worked blue collar jobs since i was in middle school(now a young adult) and by and by depression catches up and the little things start to bother me; bad work practices, poor communication, what have you.

Universal Basic Income was the concept that a person would have the ability to more directly control whether or not they have to work. With things like food, rent, some times insurance paid for without labor.

I know there are arguments for work being necessary to the mental health of a competent individual or the devil making work for idle hands, but to my understanding the current situation is "work or die" which feels like a condemnation of people who don't have desires to be active/productive, depressed or otherwise.

...

Thanks, I just needed clarification.

So my question is, why don't we just shoot the homeless and depressed at that point?

Sorry man, I wasn't really replying. I was just riffing on your image. Let me read your post and see if I have a proper response.

Pretty damn good in my opinion

Should people HAVE to work? Not necessarily, but not working should be factored into a few other criteria to decide whether you're a piece of shit or not.

>Universal Basic Income was the concept that a person would have the ability to more directly control whether or not they have to work. With things like food, rent, some times insurance paid for without labor.

This is true. And it sounds really nice. But you'd be shocked how many people wouldn't work if they didn't have to. If I could just sit at home, eat food, dick around on the internet, and play video games, I might just do it. And I say that as a fairly motivated person who's been employed solidly for 10 years.

The option to do nothing is already available to niggers. They all live with their moms and grandmothers and never get jobs. Instead they try to find money 'hustlin' or being criminals. The reason they choose that path is because they don't have to hold 'chump jobs'. Imagine if that went from a racial phenomenon to a national phenomenon

>take 97 cents of each dollar someone makes past 1 million dollars
>ignore tears of rich faggots
>free shit all day long
it's not that hard. if they don't like it they can move to somalia.

Except then everybody literally will move, and you'll have nobody to fund your bloated welfare state.

literally no one will move out of the country. where are they gonna go, some other welfare state country? lel

Majority of so called work is just moving stuff around.
If we can get machines to do it, why not?

So your solution requires global communism?
What if a single country disagrees?

Would people work if everything short of their hobbies and dreams were paid for? Or would people go out of their way to achieve education and real careers to make their own dreams and goals come true?

I only have the idea that how shitty people are comes to the area you live in, but I know welfare and unemployment are a joke that keep people from going out and getting a smaller take home paycheck from a fast food place or supermarket

>disagreeing with a communist USA
not wise desu

Automation and tech increase will have both positive and negative temporary side-effects, and UBI seems to be the fix as concluded by some!

Now UBI will not work amongst 9bil ppl who will not accept limited reproduction to balance the reasorces and better, prolong life to allow for more tech development so we stop losing all out knowledge in cycles!

I know that these seeds are being presented, and those that survive will look back to them and want UBI, want automation, want and beg for universal unity and regions under one law, they will be sick of death, goar and suffering and when they cry out and are ready to be lawful and not dogmatic idiots they will reap the rewards!

Humans, all of us I wish we can learn to know why we should not put our hands in the fire without having to burn them too!

In other words we seem to be at the stage od ignorace where we cannot use logic, instead we have to make grave mistakes to learn from them, and if that is what it takes then so be it!

Whoever provides everything for you owns you.

Shit jobs are shit, yeah. But your mindset selfish and shortsighted. Would you want the majority to take your hard earned money just because they wanted it if you had a good career? Welfare, social housing, and foodstamps have not improved poverty rates because human psychology takes cues from positive and negative motivation. If you get to the top you get shit on so why bother. You never hit the bottom so why bother. Any motivation beyond that would be from a totalitarian state of from make believe glory to the party loyalty.

>Communism
>Stateless moneyless society

>UBI
>State gives you money

not
real
gommunism

If you want to give bums all of your money, go right ahead. No one's stopping you.

Nobody who supports a UBI thinks they'll be the ones funding it.
They all want to be the leeches living for free.

It wouldn't stay "paid for" for long if noone works for this money that is paying for it...

Shit like this is why companies flee to tax havens, meanwhile the dwindling revenue generated in raising tax areas fight over more scarce resources.

You're funding it, but everyone else is funding you too. So most people would see a net gain.

I don't really understand how a man would want to just sit back and do nothing, while being paid crumbs to be a good, docile goy.

Have you no honour?

>You can create money out of nothing
Ahahahaha

make 1 million dollars, go on vacation for the rest of the year.

So give me your money OP, why havent yoy done it already?

That is not true.

I work at a start-up that is trying to bring deep learning solutions to industrial problems, primarily in computer vision. If we are successful, thousands, if not millions, of people will lose their jobs.

I fully understand the necessity of a UBI if we succeed.

Basic income will only work in white and homogeneous societies. Other states which attempt this will go bankrupt within a decade.

>Talking about taxes
>Abruptly shifts to a complete non-sequitor

Shazam!

That pic doesn't even make any sense, the way it's painted.
If basic income is "forward", "left" and "right" are opposed to each other. So if any of them is "forward", then by that logic the other must be "backward", they can't both lead to one direction, if they're opposed.
Also I have never heard a right-winger, even if he was pro-welfare, to shill for basic income.
>depression catches up and the little things start to bother me; bad work practices, poor communication, what have you
You seem to worry too much about the future. Just live the day, by trying not to waste it and you'll be fine. If you really feel like you suffer from depression and not just episodes of being depressed (happens to everyone), then you should seek out help from professional.
>current situation is "work or die"
It's not that at all. Socialists often forget this, but there exist things like charity. Do you have family, that is willing to support you?

Anyway, long story short, why do you want to live on the grace of someone else? If you do so, you'll lead a comfy, carefree life. Until that grace ends. Either person supporting you dies, or (in case of government) money will run out. Or "Le Evil Republican" will take power and cut down on welfare.
Don't see yourself relying on others permanently. You can rely on help temporarily, everyone needs a helping hand every now and then. Don't feel shit about it. But don't try to make it permanent.
And most importantly, no one is born a loser or winner. They become one. If you feel that you haven't achieved anything, then remember that you're only beginning your story. Don't let anyone give you shit user. You're valuable.
...
But not as valuable to receive free shit, by the virtue of just being there. REEEEEEEE...
jk. Stay safe, you seem like a good person, although misguided.

>genuinely believe everyone is as lazy and worthless as you
gas yourself, banana bender

So then start funding it yourself. Why do you feel the need to take my money too?

If you get taxed, you have less money than you did before.
x - y = z
If y > 0, z < x
Basic fucking maths.
The idea that "Most people will be better off" is completely fucking stupid.

>doesn't even understand the insult he's trying to use

for you to get $50k in gibs.. each person must contribute $50k in gibs.. doesn't work out senpai

B-but what about the greater good, user?
(neets & immigrants taking even more of your money, that is)

>You get taxed a percentage of your income
>A billionaire gets taxed a percentage of their income
>You both recieve the same UBI
>In your case the UBI is higher than the tax
>For the billionaire the UBI is lower than the tax
>Net gain because there are less billionaires than regular people

>basic income, but under the condition of having to work at any job assigned to you and not having he right to own property
Property meaning stuff where your title is actually registered, such as land, cars, buildings, shares...

y/n?

why don't you all give each other 1 million dollars.. you'll be billionairs in no time.

Transfer payment schemes are inherently inflationary for the simple reason that they move money from supply to demand without generating additional supply.

In the standard model, workers produce and consume a variety of products, as do firms themselves. In a transfer payment model, consumers are paid to consume but do not contribute additional supply, leading to an inflationary bump spread across the consumed products' sectors equivalent to whatever sum the transfer payment is.

>Should people HAVE to work
Absolutely. Fuckin bums.

>What is progressive taxation
>What is percentages

If I give you $50 and you give me $50, we've each made $50!

So your entire argument is based on "Just taxing the billionaires more man!"
Why do you think they'll stay in your shithole of a country when they're being taxed at 99%?
Will you guard the borders and stop them from escaping? Will you point a gun to their head and force them to work?

>its forward

A leftist obviously made this

Why would anyone need to implement UBI when you could just reduce the cost of goods to as close to zero as possible?

>>What is progressive taxation
progressive taxation when everyone is on basic income. interesting, but retarded.

>thinking about the best ways to be a leech

Nice fantasy world you got there.

>If I give you $50 and you give me $50, we've each made $50!
if we do it all day long we go home with $20million right?

free labor is slavery

The United States has had much more severe taxes on higher income brackets in the past than it does now. Yet somehow the wealthy didn't decide to move to Somalia, where taxes are nonexistent.

I wonder why.

UBI needs advanced automation to work, and the tech isn't there yet.

You'll have to jack the taxes up like you can't even imagine in order to fund a UBI at any level which you would consider a "living wage".

Also, France actually has had issues with rich people moving to Belgium to avoid taxes.

I'm effectively disabled due to health issues which prevent me from working a full-time job, but social security doesn't agree. I'm 35 and worked since I was 15, but I guess 20 years of my money isn't enough for the fuckers to fund me at least enough to pay for my medical bills.

I can't work anything more than part time, and trying to find part time work in my field is next to impossible. I need another option, because I'm a slow drain on my wife's income.

Yet they hire people for the sole purpose of making them pay as little taxes as possible.

I wonder why.

why don't you research the subject. when the tax was 90%, which made poorfags happy, there where exemptions and tax laws that let nearly all of it to be deducted legally.

What are your health issues?

Employer-based health insurance is a bullshit system designed to make us dependent on giant corporations. When it comes to healthcare I don't really give a shit if we go full Bernie or total ancap.

>You'll have to jack the taxes up like you can't even imagine in order to fund a UBI at any level which you would consider a "living wage".

Untrue, because you would also be cutting out most entitlements, which make up a huge portion of the national budget. Food stamps, housing credits, welfare, and pensions would all be cut and repurposed into UBI. You would also save money over law enforcement and municipal hospitals, because people who are secure in their basic needs are healthier and have less incentive to commit crimes of desperation.

I'd rather be dependent on my employer than government. I can always change employers when I'm unhappy. With government you are just fuckered.

>Also, France actually has had issues with rich people moving to Belgium to avoid taxes.

So the EU sucks? Open Borders is shit policy? We knew that already.

Where do you think money comes from?
Someone has to work for it.
As you increase disincentives to work and increase incentives to not work what do you think will happen?

More and more people will stop working. As more people stop working the economy will shrink, supplies will decrease, prices will increase and very soon the government won't be able to collect enough taxes to pay the UBI that they promised people and worst yet if you wanted to get a job there would now be less available.

tl'dr: UBI wouldn't be sustainable

you live in a bubble if you believe that

IBS and food allergies/intolerances which mean I literally can't eat or drink 99% of normally available food. Add on depression and anxiety on top of that, and you've got a wretched, fatigued, malnourished motherfucker with crappy insurance(thanks King Nigger) that sticks me with bills I can't pay.

I had a job all of 2016 which paid well and was great, but shit changed since someone embezzled money, people were fired, and the new management didn't like my part-time status. It takes months to find a decent gig, and I'm getting really tired of going on interviews, being told "we'll let you know either way", and never hearing from them again.

welfare recipients are one of the most overweight groups in the US.

What part? That UBI makes food stamps obsolete? Or that someone who isn't homeless needs less medical attention?

Here's a fun thought experiment.
Take the total amount spent on food stamps, housing credits, welfare and pensions.
Now divide that amount by the total adult population.

That's the amount you'll get under a UBI.
>inb4 you're too retarded to even be able to do that calculation

Citation needed. I know there is a lot of entitlement fraud, but are we really assuming there wouldn't be similar fraud with UBI?

I get lost on that question too but I remind myself that equality is a illusion, the middle class is split into upper middle, working class, and working poor. Showing shit happens, you lose your job in evolving economy, become poor, everyone calls you a gib even though you worked 20 years for a fallen enterprise. There's more people like that out there than we think and they're the ones wondering why people bitch about free loaders but expect their employers to provide a benefits package and they cry about social security endeavors. I wrote a novel here but why not shoot all the elderly people approaching retirement too?

Man was cursed to toil and work all the days of his life. It's in the Bible. Anything thay defies this nature as laid out by the divine law will eventually succumb to destruction.

What happens if you shoot up the income in your veins instead of paying for the broken dishwasher? Do you get welfare on top of that?

doesn't matter, its all dumb.

Even if you got your UBI Utopia you would have people living on basic UBI bitching about someone having a nicer house than they do. It never ends. I deserve a basic house like theirs, its not fair! Why do they get to have car and I don't.. its not fair!

its the mentality of a four year old.

why even tax the wealthy? I saw fuck it and lets just print money. At least then we can maintain income from those wealthy people without scaring them off, and we can all enjoy some good ol fashion inflation.

Nah, only the Federal Reserve is allowed to print money, and ship it off wherever the Rothschilds tell them to ship it. Us little people aren't allowed to do the same.

so what happens when majority of morons that rely on UBI spend their money on stupid shit and then can't feed themselves? Do we still need foodstamps and such to keep them alive? Surely we don't let them die in the street?

just use rocks for currency. you wouldn't need to bother with printing paper money. Need money, go pick up a rock.
/shakes head

None of the welfare programs make up a significant part of the fed budget. Its medicare, medicaid, social security and defense

Here's the thing about universal basic income.
It was an idea first explored by the same round table groups that invented all isms*. The core of
the idea discussed by the nwo freaks that designed it was that it cannot be accumulated. Literally the same as 14th century surfdom. Have fun with that.

You can still work. UBI doesn't make capitalism go away, and people would still have jobs. It only establishes a minimum level of sustenance below which no one in a modern society should be allowed to fall.

Lynch every nigger lynch every spic and then start to build a welfare state

>which no one in a modern society should be allowed to fall.
Why shouldnt people be allowed to fail?

>National Socialism solved the question easily
>"Okay how do we fix this problem without resorting to something that works because it will take away (((our))) only power?"

but why work.. people like you just want to take the money I'd earn anyway. I'll just live on UBI and go fishing alot.

this is what happens when teach in schools that everyone is a winner. The real losers are going to have a really tough time with real life.

Is it possible that a strong society is built out of the will to survive, all the way down to each individual contributor, and that removing such will or making it obsolete would slowly erode the society to the point where it can no longer sustain itself under its' own weight?

>so what happens when majority of morons that rely on UBI spend their money on stupid shit and then can't feed themselves? Do we still need foodstamps and such to keep them alive? Surely we don't let them die in the street?

This really isn't a UBI related question, as people spend their money on stupid shit and can't feed themselves regardless. I suppose we would still have cahrities, or perhaps forced economic classrooms as part of local law enforcement, along with community service.

On the plus side, everyone who ends up in poverty would absolutely be at fault of their own. So I would sleep better at least after calling them out on it.

You would have to outlaw intoxicants. Drug addicts and alcoholics would bankrupt the system very quickly.

>On the plus side, everyone who ends up in poverty would absolutely be at fault of their own.
we have that now.

This.

2016 mandatory spending was $2.4T and discretionary was $1.2T. Even if you delete the entire federal government, you only get $11k per citizen (and of course there would be no one left to collect the taxes and actually distribute the $11k checks).

isn't that what we have now? why prolong it by adding a few extra dollars?

Because people living in poverty reduces the general welfare and makes everything become generally shittier.

so we should just gas them then.

Watch as the commie fucks completely ignore this, just like they ignore every argument that involves numbers.

quickly, someone delete this.

This isn't rocket science OP

If you don't have to work, most people won't, without people working, the economy goes down the tubes because the country is nothing but a Welfare/Socialist State with no export/imports because nobody is working. Any companies/people left with money will leave for good. Canada is a good example of what happens when you start taxing the shit out of companies/"The Rich". Get off your ass and get to work. Maybe when everything is automated and no human workers are generally required we could try something like UBI, but in the meantime it would simply cause a collapse. Nobody wants to get up at 5am to go to work all day, but it is what keeps our society running. Also try instead of saying "Tax the Rich!" Say "Lower Everyone's Taxes!" Then you actually stimulate the economy while also bringing the way too massive for what it was designed to be 'Government' down a notch. Plus if you get free anything it loses its value, you don't get that rush of 'hey I earned this'. It's shallow. Empty, and won't improve most peoples lives or help them achieve their goals or dreams.

Working also helps with Depression fyi, it's a hell of a lot better then sitting on your ass in the dark letting your mind sink lower.

Look on the bright side, crappy government run healthcare could at least give us some long overdue cleansing of the gene pool.

i think he's a high school freshmen spewing shit he hears from his teachers. nobody can be that dumb.. i hope.

You guys are oversimplifying. Everyone gets a tough break, tell yourself someone else has it worse, don't be a pussy. I excelled in science in high school, someone else did better got the scholarship. Tough tits I wanted to be a doctor went straight to manual labor. I'm of the "working poor".

you may be onto something special here.

Where specifically is the flaw in the argument?
You can't make money from nothing. You can't give away more money than you take in.

>Working also helps with Depression fyi, it's a hell of a lot better then sitting on your ass in the dark letting your mind sink lower.
I went from being at work, wishing I had more time at home...to having endless time at home, wishing I could work. I do not believe this is a healthy duality.

I would spend that time lifting/Learning and preparing for the final solution. Only good goys prefer to be distracted With menial labour