Social Security is a big scam that doesn't benefit the people who pay into it at all. You pay the government now...

Social Security is a big scam that doesn't benefit the people who pay into it at all. You pay the government now, then years later they pay you back less of what you put in because the value of the dollar has deflated by the time you can cash out. It was just a way for the government to milk money out of people because the retirement age was above the average life expectancy.

The only thing Trump can do to end Social Security while keeping liberals from totally losing their shit is to make it optional. Give people the option to opt-out (and maybe get a full refund) and it won't be long until Social Security dies.

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If it’s made optional it will financially collapse though, which is why it’s never been optional.

>it will financially collapse
That's the whole point of making it optional.

If Trump officially ended SS then the liberal media would spin it to make it look like he's ruining the lives of poor elderly people by taking their benefits away. By making it optional he lets the people who still want it have it, and anyone who doesn't want it won't have to pay into it nor can they get money back out of it.

As more and more people learn that SS is a scam, eventually it just won't be cost effective and the public will have voted with their wallets.

Great way to anger every Boomer close to retirement. Trump couldn't end it even if he wanted to, congress would have to end it and it would be political suicide. It wouldn't be a bad system if it was SUPPLEMENTAL to a retirement plan but idiots think it will carry them through their retirement entirely on it's own.

>Great way to anger every Boomer close to retirement.
It wouldn't affect them. They paid into it, so they would still get their retirement benefits. It would increase the deficit significantly until they all die off, but eventually it'd correct itself.

>congress would have to end it
Not "end" it, make it optional.

Sup Forums occasionally knows stuff.
Of older people, especially retired people, y'all know nothing. We vote.

I should also mention that young people who have paid into it, but want to opt-out probably won't be getting any kind of refund, but that would be a great way to kill it faster. People's desire for instant gratification in the form of a big check and bigger paychecks would doom Social Security really quickly.

It wouldn't be solvent if it was optional, it won't even be solvent by current projections in 2027 and will need at least a 27% cut. Thus angry Boomers who can't look past their fucking noses at the next generation screwed over.

That's why he should do it in secret and on his second term.

Why are people so butt devastated over social safety nets?

Sure the dollar is worth less later but if you try really hard and use your head there's better alternatives than just making it "opt out and let it collapse".

I mean you realize social security is a huge part of the GOP voting base right?

I for one don't see why the government shouldn't be responsible for taking care of its taxpayers.

My intent is to kill it if you haven't figured that out yet.

What % of your wages does social security cost you? It cant be as bad as the Canadian Pension Plan, which is going up to just under 14% of pre tax income by 2019. Fuck this earth.

6.2% for the employer and 6.2% for the employee, or 12.4% total.

>Why are people so butt devastated over social safety nets?
Because they don't work. Especially not over the long term and with such a high population. Social Security will continue to screw over generation after generation as the new retirees become bigger and live longer.

I got ya, but what I'm saying is the optional part would last maybe a year in congress before every boomer puts the "open borders, gay love, child molesting, and social security required" party in office and the make it not only a requirement, but require twice the contributions.

The purpose of the government isn't to fix every little problem anyone ever has, or even think they have

>Social Security is a big scam that doesn't benefit the people who pay into it at all
incorrect.
your retirement is a bit nicer with an extra $225 to spend on bullshit each month.
everybody's life is a bit nicer because you're stimulating the economy with it.

please do stay out of affairs you know nothing about.
sincerely,
educated motherfuckers

But the thing is, most young people today can barely afford to live NOW, so they've being forced to put away money that they could be using to improve their quality of life.

And that $225 extra you get per month is worth less than what you started paying into SS 40+ years ago.

Ouch. Why did i fall for the low taxes in the usa meme.

Lucky boomers only had to contribute 1.8% and 1.8% respectively most of their lives. What a sham. If these programs were worth it they would be optional.

Then we keep paying them even if SS does collapse. The short-term debt of paying the boomers until they die will be worth it compared to the long-term benefits.

The alternative thought process is zero sum. The problem you think exists that social security solves is people not having enough money for retirement. I pose to you the question of why everyone should be forced into throwing their money into what is essentially all encompassed under the stock market (excluding govt bonds), which if you think about it, amounts to little more than gambling.

If you don't invest in that kind of stuff the value of your own savings diminishes over time, naturally. So I guess you're just fucked if you didn't buy into arbitrary fund pools from various wealth extracting investment management firms?

My opinion is that the US government could very easily afford comfortable safety nets instead we fuck around and cut programs to make up for tax cuts and pour billions into defense spending.

Why do we keep seeing these repeated threads every fucking week? We dont give a fuck

What's the cutoff age?

>What a sham. If these programs were worth it they would be optional.
This. If people really liked social security that much then making it optional wouldn't be any threat to it.

I'm no expert, but the simplest solution I can think of is to just not make it available to anyone who isn't already collecting or paying into it.

SS is literally Obama care for old people.
It was and is a scam and anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.
If you added the money put into SS to a moderate aggressive mutual fund, you'd have more than enough money to retire at a decent age. That's not including the money YOU personally are adding in every month.
If you include even a basic input of 100 dollars a month you'd be a millionaire and a few years.

It's the ultimate Jew.

If people were not forced to opt into the program, individuals most likely to have contributions exceed benefits, or be better off deploying those resources elsewhere, would tend to opt out (since these are wealthy individuals who can also likely afford to fund their own retirement) leading to significant decreases in total tax revenues. Therefore, the only individuals who would remain in the program are those who stand to gain more from it than they contribute, leading to shortfalls in the funding of the program.

Yes because I should keep paying into a system I know for a fact won’t exist when I retire. Literally for me it’s the equivalent of setting that amount of cash on fire. Except I don’t even get to feel the heat.

because it's a literal Jewish scam dude how fucking stupid are you.

They take your money, they invest your money, they keep the profit, they give you the exact same amount of money back, but it is now devalued.

Let nature take its fucking course.
If you invested the money you would of paid into any benefit program like a not good goy, you'd be 100% ready to retire without any government benefits needed ever.
The government is literally stealing your money to pay for people who paid less money into it.

I'm all about helping mankind and all that gay shit, but fuck man it should be my choice. No one else has a right to determine what I can or can't do with my stuff.

>SS is literally Obama care for old people.
>It was and is a scam and anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.
Which is why we need to kill it, while ensuring that Trump won't loose the boomer vote since they're the only ones that'd be hurt by it. That's why we let them keep it while making sure the younger generations don't have to put up with it.

No, the ultimate jew is forcing people to gamble with investment management funds to have a decent standard of living after they stop working.

I understand the reality, and the double standard is I have roths and a 401k because I understand SS is a bit weak right now.

Investing in the VALUE OF COMPANIES(see: stocks/mutual funds) is what should be optional.

Are you retarded or something? I've made it painfully clear that the point of making it optional is to kill it while maintaining the illusion of not killing it.

>Give people the option to opt-out
this is a really dangerous move, if people figure out that the value in the money is easily changed by printing more than the value of the dollar will be put into question

How so? I thought most people already knew that.

Are YOU retarded? Why would you want to kill it?

I don't get how the reasoning between social security and traditional retirement accounts has become so ass backwards.

First of all the value of your investments are never guaranteed, they're solely dependent on the value of the stocks that comprise them which means if the market fucks off so does your retirement.

Social security is designed to be a social contract, not a get rich quick scheme, so that you can chill as an old fart later on comfortably knowing the US government has your back because EVERYONE has paid into it and isn't just gambling with investment portfolios.

You do realize when your born you have the ability to opt out of paying taxes for social benefits right?
The problem is you can't use any social benefits as you grow up and you still end up paying for a lot of social benefits from property and local taxes.
My father showed me how you could do it a few years back, but it can really fuck you up if you aren't prepared. Because most banks won't give you credit. So you'd need to be legit as far as your personal finances go.

turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/irs-tax-return/who-is-exempt-from-paying-social-security-tax/L3dLJUbLN
Here are just a few ways you can get out of paying for it, I'd need more time to pull up the other sources. They don't exactly broadcast this shit user.

However it still stands, you don't have to pay all your taxes. Just federal income tax at the end of the day and property taxes.

>I'm all about helping mankind and all that gay shit, but fuck man it should be my choice.
well thats the thing, in a culture where donation is compulsory than there aren't any problems, as soon as you force people to donate nobody bothers, because there is a corrupt and useless benefit system that only benefits scammers so why even bother

>Why would you want to kill it?
Because it's a fucking scam. When it was created the retirement age was deliberately created above the average life expectancy with the intent that most people would die before they could ever collect.

SS is a ponzi scheme and the main reason people think we need more migrants so they can fund the top of the pyramid. In reality though I get mine before you get yours so good luck trying to live off your measly pittance when you’re old as fuck.

>HAVING A CHOICE IS THE TRUE JEW REEE REEE
You're flat out wrong, life is a choice, life is a gamble. It's wrong to try and safety net everyone. It is not my business if your life sucks and the government has no right to scam me out of money to take care of you.

I'd take the gamble every time, at least it's my choice.

no, it's a tiny segment of the society that knows about the hidden tax of inflation, to be honest most people aren't smart enough to figure out very basic things so this will be entirely over their thought process, just stick to banks are stealing from you with criminal tricks and they will agree even if they don't understand

>First of all the value of your investments are never guaranteed
in NYC they are, especially if you have insurance against terrorist explosions

You dink. I'm trying to tell you something. Trump and company LOVE SS. Only young idiots hate it.

>just stick to banks are stealing from you with criminal tricks and they will agree even if they don't understand
I think it'd be easier to point out how much less the dollar can buy now than it used to.

>>First of all the value of your investments are never guaranteed
To add on yes they are, you also get major tax breaks in most first world countries if you experience a major loss in investments.
There is no reason to not invest.
I win no matter what.

Wrong, you're conflating my ideas, to have a decent living after you retire you are, for all intents and purposes, forced to investment into third parties.

If you think you can make it with SS alone you're in for a rude awakening. This is obvious and I never said it wasn't true.

>inb4 but no one is forcing you to invest, it's not my problem if you want to have a shitty retirement and end up having to go back to walmart at 70

Well obviously, but you'd just be disingenuously ignoring the fact that no one WANTS to have a shitty retirement.

>Trump and company LOVE SS.
Trump doesn't give a shit because he's rich and he's rich because he spent his money the way he wanted to, not because the government took his money and gave it back to him later.

>The problem is you can't use any social benefits as you grow up and you still end up paying for a lot of social benefits from property and local taxes.

The problem is when you get t-boned by a texting driver, the ambulance that comes to save your life was paid for with property taxes?

Simply awful. Sorry man.

...

Why not just slowly extend the minimum age you can start to collect then?

Say instead of retiring/collecting at 65, make it 67. Then maybe 20 years down the road when medicine improves more, make it 70?

Also retards will opt out, spend all their money on a new pickup, then when they are elderly and cant work they will be homeless - costing society even more money.

God damn you fucking idiot read what people are typing before saying such stupid fucking dribble.

MOST MEN WILL NOT RETIRE AT ALL.
That's with all the years of SS and Medi payments, that's with 401ks, that's with all this utter bullshit.
Most men will FUCKING DIE, before they hit retirement age. The rest will die five-ten years after and the smallest percentage will live ten plus years after retirement.

I would rather fucking invest the god damn money and actually retire at a good age.
That's not good enough for you though, you fucking kike. You want me to work my entire life, pay into your stupid fucking program, retire with a mediocre paycheck and no fucking savings, just to fucking die a few years after.

Well fuck you and your schemes you fucking Judas.
We are done following your people's lies Kike.
Go sell your shit to Tumblr.

>You pay the government now, then years later they pay you back less of what you put in because the value of the dollar has deflated by the time you can cash out.
And in the interim, you, as well as every ne'er do well, receives insurance against life's catastrophes. Insurance isn't free.

Hey, SS is a raw deal. No argument here on that here. But why not criticize it legitimately?

Lmao.

All I'm saying is this country has the resources to make retirement not so ridiculous.

We just choose not to with far right ideology having thrown such a wrench into everything.

>b-but I never asked for insurance, I can take care of myself

And thus, the health insurance scam was born.

>And in the interim, you, as well as every ne'er do well, receives insurance against life's catastrophes. Insurance isn't free.
You do understand that insurance and social security are two separate things, right? And insurance is a business that's completely optional. (except car insurance in most states) And the great thing about it being a business is that businesses are forced to compete. Government doesn't compete.

Lol, what is your point in stating that the government doesn't compete? Basically that means the governments has a sole responsibility to the people it serves. Businesses are only responsible to profits and shareholders. If you think they compete to serve customers better, think again. And most of them barely even compete.

>It wouldn't be a bad system
Yes it would be. If you didn't take people's money via SS, they could invest it or at least collect interest on it, which would improve retirement prospects far more than SS checks

But they want to stop Social Security when they can use it when they're older to retire but are instead for free college which will leave them less money to pay for loans and will enable their kids to become the next Boomers.

if you pay into social security starting in your 20s you have to live into your 80s to start making a profit on your lifelong investment. since this is 10+ years longer than the life expectancy for a male you can easily see how this is a fucking scam. to top it off when you're dead the checks stop coming. if you had been able to invest that money over the course of your life you could not only live off of it but hand it down after you died.

>amounts to little more than gambling.
Maybe if you try day trading with your savings. Or you could throw it in a stock index, get 5% per year after inflation without even paying attention

>Social Security is a big scam that doesn't benefit the people who pay into it at all.
That's not true at all. 20% of the population is retirement age. Currently there are 60 million people on Social Security, and almost 1/2 billion Americans have already drawn Social Security benefits. Only 10% of Americans die before receiving benefits.

>You pay the government now, then years later they pay you back less of what you put in because the value of the dollar has deflated by the time you can cash out.
You're wrong about that, too. SS benefits have a cost of living adjustment

>It was just a way for the government to milk money out of people because the retirement age was above the average life expectancy.
SS benefits start at 65. Avg life expectancy is 73. That's 8 years of solid benefits.

>The only thing Trump can do to end Social Security while keeping liberals from totally losing their shit is to make it optional.
Most retirees are right-wing conservatives. forking over their benefits to Wall Street casinos is only going to make elderly Republicans lose their shit and start voting Democratic.

>Give people the option to opt-out (and maybe get a full refund) and it won't be long until Social Security dies.
Every developed county in the world has a government retirement program. Why is this a race to make the US so much like their beloved Somalia?

Damn, finally some sense.

>My opinion is that the US government could very easily afford comfortable safety nets instead we fuck around and cut programs to make up for tax cuts and pour billions into defense spending.
Oh my fucking god. Over half the budget is welfare. Defense is 15%. And defense is something that the federal government must and only can do, while welfare can be done at any governmental level or even none of them.

For example: the post office was absolute shit until FedEx and UPS came along. Those business did such a better job that the USPS was basically forced to compete or everyone working there would be laid-off. Monopolies tend to turn to shit.

If you make McDonalds level wages or work low wage jobs Social Security is far worth the investment.

>Every developed county in the world has a government retirement program.
And that is why the birthrates in the developed world are shit

>is far worth the investment.
benefits are based on income

>All I'm saying is this country has the resources to make retirement not so ridiculous
It wouldn't be if you fucking kikes didn't take a big meaty bite out of every paycheck.

If you worked those jobs you'd be better off getting more money now and saving it up yourself.

This. People used to be taken care of by their children when they got old. Now everyone expects the government to take care of them when they get old and the young can barely take care of themselves.

If Trump does that then I'll unironically consider moving to the US.
As things are right now I'm being robbed at the rate of about 12000$ a year to "contribute" to a pension I'll probably never see.

You can't save on McDonalds level wages.

You have to pay the same SS tax on McDonalds level wages.

Social Security has been a scam since the beginning. In the 30s when they were selling it to everyone they claimed it wasn't a tax and likened it to an insurance program- you pay into it and get the money out later. HOWEVER, when religious groups like the Amish who don't believe in insurance complained they assured them that Social Security was a tax, not insurance.

>SS benefits have a cost of living adjustment
Great, so communist states get an even bigger slice of the pie
>SS benefits start at 65. Avg life expectancy is 73. That's 8 years of solid benefits.
Why would I want a big chunk of my paycheck taken under the assumption that it will allow me to get a meager and unlivable check from the government for 8 years?
>Most retirees are right-wing conservatives. forking over their benefits to Wall Street casinos
HURR DURR WHAT ARE STOCK INDEXES. Or fuck, even just gathering interest in a savings account is better than SS.
>Every developed county in the world has a government retirement program.
They also have giant federal banks made and run by kikes. Wow, I wonder why all these countries take your money at gunpoint with the promise of paying you back 20, 30, 50 years down the line? Couldn't be that they want to completely control another 5% of the GDP...

>Most retirees are right-wing conservatives. forking over their benefits to Wall Street casinos is only going to make elderly Republicans lose their shit and start voting Democratic.
Why cant their kids take care of them?

Because if I didn't have to pay 12K a year towards (((INPS))) contributions I would have paid my house off by now, and that would have been immensely more beneficial to me.
It would allow me to invest a significant amount of money, either in the market, in other properties to rent out, in a business, etc.

As it stands I'll have to keep paying for 40+ YEARS before I'm even allowed to touch any of the money, and even then I will only get as much as the government decides.
If you get tired of working at age 45 and decide to fuck off to Argentina with your money (which would easily be enough to live the rest of your life as upper class), you can't do it because they won't give it to you.
And when you die, only a small part of the money you put in is given back to your family, whereas with an investment fund they would get almost all of it.

But let's not care about that, goy! Generational wealth is so outdated. It's not for you, goy. Trust me.

Because they didn't have any because the faggot boomers decided that living the good life 40 years ago was more important than literally anything else

>when your born
>being a baby
>capable of making financial decisions

Here it's 10% paid by the employee and another 20-25% paid by the employer.

Um sweetie why does that image say John Q Public instead of Jane Q Public?

Is that how you guys do it in Somalia?
>yes
Sorry, we're civilized. You may politely fuck off now.

No it wasn't. It was paid by medical insurers. Fire departments are funded by property taxes, not ambulances.

You're civilized because you never had kids or alienated the ones you did have, and also never saved any money, in part because a large part of your income was stolen every paycheck and then again at the end of the year. No family, no savings, entirely dependent on the state, you are a SLAVE. And you call this "civilized"?

>HURR DURR WHAT ARE STOCK INDEXES.
Let's think about this for a moment. What were the original 12 Dow Jones corporations?
--->American Cotton Oil,
--->American Sugar,
--->American Tobacco,
--->Chicago Gas, Distilling & Cattle Feeding,
--->General Electric,
--->Laclede Gas,
--->National Lead,
--->North American,
--->Tennessee Coal and Iron,
--->U.S. Leather pfd
--->U.S. Rubber
Why are these corporations not still the Dow Jones Index? Because most of them went out of business. They were mismanaged, under-capitalized, run in to the ground or their executives were short-sighted. People can't go out of business. If your retirement depends on Enron, then I'm afraid I have some very bad news for you.

That's where you're wrong bucko.

Leave it to a democrat to literally not understand how stock indexes work. It doesn't matter if one of them fails as long as they don't all at once, and if they do, that means the economy has collapsed and it doesn't matter either way. If you want more security than the DOW, then do s&p500, 500 different stocks, consistant average of 7% gain per year after inflation for almost a century.

6.2 up to 18500 in earnings, but for most people its a reduction of earnings at 6.2.

It's also highly regressive as you pay into the system but have no claim to the underlying assets. It prevents people from building generational wealth

>being forced to depend on the goverment for your well being
>civilized
so being civilized means you're a cuckslave to zog? hahah

>Leave it to a democrat to literally not understand how stock indexes work.
So you buy {{{ stock indices }}} and not the company stocks themselves? Tell us how that works.

>consistant average of 7% gain per year after inflation for almost a century.
If you buy one of each of the 500 Standard and Poors, maybe you'll average 7%. But individual stock ownership (the way the rest of us buy stock) is a crap throw. That was my point. I bought 100 shares of Citibank back when I was an employee and the stock was $500 a share. Now how's my retirement investment doing? Not so well.

>You're civilized because you never had kids or alienated the ones you did have,
My kids just graduate from college, you dumbass.

> No family, no savings, entirely dependent on the state, and also never saved any money,
I'm 44 and we have a house and a condo paid off already. We have a late model Lexus and an Audi in the driveway, only a few payments left on the Audi.

> large part of your income was stolen every paycheck
No, I got my college degree early in computer science and made pretty good money. Where I lost money was being compelled to buy company stock by an unscrupulous employer.

>And you call this "civilized"?
Civilized because I only need to work 20 hours a week to maintain my standard of living. I can dick around all day on 4chins making fun of neckbeards too fat to make it up their mom's basement steps. Or I can go ride my bike at the beach.

>They also have giant federal banks made and run by kikes. Wow, I wonder why all these countries take your money at gunpoint with the promise of paying you back 20, 30, 50 years down the line? Couldn't be that they want to completely control another 5% of the GDP...

It was made during the era of commodity backed currency. They needed the money to fund the program. That isn't needed anymore. As long as there is unemployment it is basically just free cash.

you ultimately still own stock in those companies, just a very small proportion spread across all of them. do you unironically believe that "indexes" magically means that the stock isn't actual stock? no wonder conservative states are economic wastelands.

>all this projection

trumpcucks are pathetic

>so being civilized means you're a cuckslave to zog?
Well Social Security is an insurance plan and there are many Sup Forumstards who instantly think they know who is behind all the insurance companies (selling fear for profit). However, as you get older, you'll find that no companies want to hire you. Life insurance costs a fortune. You can't get a 30 year mortgage when you're 70. Your medical costs increase dramatically. A fixed income means that every hike in price for your cable bill or heating bill is inflation few can afford.

Diagf boomer faggot

>However, as you get older, you'll find that no companies want to hire you.
If you're that old you should have enough experience under your belt to start your own company.

>Tell us how that works.
It's the most bog standard retirement plan investment method. Talk to your bank
>But individual stock ownership (the way the rest of us buy stock) is a crap throw.
Most people don't own stock at all, those who do principally invest in indexes through their bank. Finance fags can try their luck on the market, but if you don't know how to do it and you gamble and lose, you have no one to blame but yourself. Besides, even putting the money in a savings account and collect meager interest is better than social security.
If you're so well off, why the fuck are you defending social security? Sure you lost a chunk of your nest egg because you're a retard, but assuming you aren't lying about your age or income, you'll still retire well off even without considering SS

" Conservative states", by which you mean the deep south, are economic wastelands because of all the fucking niggers. Of course stock indexes are still stocks, but because the risk is distributed across the whole economy, you can't get fucked unless the whole thing turns upside down.

I've been calling for an end to social security for decades

Ok then why do you need the government to take care of you?