What does Sup Forums think about trade/ labor unions...

What does Sup Forums think about trade/ labor unions? Are they commie breeding grounds or a reactionary force against jewish supremacy?

They are fine where they are optional. As soon as you start to force people into unions to hold a job is when there is a problem.

If you're not competent enough to employ yourself and own your own means of production, you're not human enough to deserve rights

fpbp

whats wrong with people freely associating?

Most unions are just controlled opposition.

I work in management at UPS, can honestly say the union here has given me a bad taste for them in general. It's made it near impossible for me to fire terrible employees without jumping through 5 hoops and even then it can get reversed if they play by the rules. Many of my workers abuse it which promotes a lazy work environment, not to mention unnecessary excess pay due to various ways to file a grievance.

Even when I was given union benefits as an hourly here it was always presented to me as a scummy way to abuse the system. I've never once appreciated it's existence

Fascist often did this.

>I work in management at UPS,
The corporate whore

>the union here has given me a bad taste for them in general.
That's what the corporation always says.

>It's made it near impossible for me to fire terrible employees
Then why did you hire them? Too many times these are good employees that the corporation is trying to fuck over.

>and even then it can get reversed if they play by the rules.
Like good employees do? See, we can tell you're lying already.

>Many of my workers abuse it which promotes a lazy work environment
That's what the corporation always says.

>not to mention unnecessary excess pay due to various ways to file a grievance.
Your poor management causes them to file grievances, then you try to punish them as some kind of sick revenge? You're so fucked up you can't even see it.

>I've never once appreciated it's existence
The first honest thing you've said.

>Are they commie breeding grounds

Why should the people who actually do the work and create the wealth have any say? Better to have the dilettante heirs bouncing from Aspen to Monte Carlo and their jew lawyers call the shots on everything.

>That's what the corporation always says.
how does that prove him wrong tho?
just because a corporation says something doesn't mean it's wrong
ot everybody blindly hates corporations because our socialist leaders told us to

Past their prime. Need to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up.Killed the golden goose in the 70's with unrealistic demands. Nothing but nepotism and ass covering any more. Public sector unions are the worst of all. Literally Satan. Burn em' all down.

I'm in a labor union and I can say for sure that without a doubt the company would be Fucking us over 100 fold more than we "fuck them over" as Sup Forums would put it.

Unions garuntee benefits, security and yearly raises for just a couple of dollar a month.

The only people against unions are the 1% and those who aren't in a union who are jealous that we get a livable wage and benefits and they don't.

It's fine if it's not on my property

If UPS is being abused so much why are they breaking yearly profits every year?
Yeah so much abuse going on, oh wait, you can't afford your 5th yacht if the lower workers get a dollar an hour raise sorry I forgot.

>guarantee benefits
>benefits
You obviously don't know that that word means

This except government employee unions should be outlawed.

Vacation time, sick leave, health insurance, dental insurance, profit sharing, etc.
if you don't think those are benefits you're a moron.

A benefit is something that is not mandatory. Wages and vacation time are mandatory. Everything else is a BENEFIT (added bonus) meant to induce you to work there. They don't have to offer you shit other than wages.

They should be dragged on the street and shot

>Then why did he hire them?
How many jobs have you held dude? They aren’t lazy when you interview and hire them, they devolve into that condition once hired?

As long as it's not a designated street

Remember who bankrupted Hostess? Until they were resold and brought back without unions and are surviving now without useless unions that fight with each other aka bakers unions vs truckers union vs ...

Remember the auto labors union that got people 30+/hour with FAT pensions so much that it made the auto industry in the US go under and bankrupt and DESTROYED the last of our large manufacturing? Yeah you want to pay for a fucking POS saturn rather than a reliable honda for the same price?

>they devolve into that condition once hired?
Yes. Unions encourage complacency. There is no incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum (just enough work not to get fired).

Remember the Puerto Rican truckers who decided that the best thing they could do after the hurricane was to try and use the urgent need to distribute supplies to extort concessions out of their employers?

GMC = Government Motor Corporation

No that was Trump's fault

>unions
>child labor laws
Bullshit. Child labor laws were developed by Parliament during the Industrial Revolution. Laborers were demanding their children remain in the mines and mills.

How many of those benefits are actually from laws and not unions?

Co-op or empolyee owned businesses tend to smash unionizism

Unions are completely fine. There is no reason why employees should not be able to form their own collective to have people negotiate for them as a whole. The free market also tolerates unions. If employers are presented with unreasonable terms, they can hire non-union employees. I’m not sure why people hate on them so much.

It's communism and it's not happening on my property and my dime.

Unions are fine for a homogeneous state. Think about who the company is forced to hire so they don't get sued, now imagine those groups NOT abusing the system and being lazy.

How do you like working ridiculous fucking hours on salary for them(ups)?

Anyway not all unions are created equal, And not all places need a union, and yes lots of shitty workers end up protected. But if you believe the world would be a better place with out them you are mistaken.

We would be a 3rd world shit hole with out them.

They restrict people from entering the workforce. Breeds corruption. Harm's business creators. Sends jobs overseas. If you disagree you should be thrown out of a helicopter.

>If employers are presented with unreasonable terms, they can hire non-union employees.

Only in right-to-work states, which union advocates claim is unfair to workers.

It's my personal opinion the teachers' unions are >80% responsible for the US's atrocious public school system.

It's a bit of both and necessary at certain times.
The fact that unions block garbage employees from getting fired is unfortunately going to ruin everything for everyone else.

Browns and blacks are responsible for the fucked up school system

Then you're free to not hire union employees and fire anyone who makes mention of it.
Don't be surprised when this has a negative effect on morale and productivity though.

They're fine if everyone has a true sense of brotherhood... That they're all working for eachothers benefit and the benefit of the company they work for to help it make a profit. Once they grow complacent and entitled it all falls apart.

My grandad worked for GM for 30 years after the war and while he never collected good pension my grandmother, who never worked for GM in her life, got a pension for 30 years after he died. It bled the company dry and these pensions they negotiate are unsustainable.

My personal experiences with unions is that they really help out blue collar workers, but you could tell there was a big divide between those who were grateful at having such a high paying job for what they did and the lackeys who abused it. No can't fathom how they made a profit of it. I guess the one saving grace was the fact that there was no pension, but merely a stock option.

>Are they commie breeding grounds or a reactionary force against jewish supremacy?
I am a member of a skilled labor union. They train you, and treat you like family. They fight for fair wages for everyone, and share the work as best as possible. Everything your image says is true. Sure you don't "need" unions, but you sure won't get as far in skilled labor without them. Your chance at being taught a trade while getting paid is slim to none outside of a union hall. You won't break into the field unless you have trade schooling which you will usually pay for otherwise.

I had a choice to be a pipefitter, and from there I could pay for school and fight to make $20/hour or involve a union hall and have no fight on my wages. I make almost $40/hour + med/dental/vision/penions/annuity + other shit.

This winter has been the busiest since 08. Jobs are paying extra just to get help. Fully working union hall in December is a good thing. It means that infrastructure and the economy is growing quickly.

False.....I do not live in a right to work state, and was told just today we lost a job to non union because they were cheaper.

Having moved from America to Australia the difference here in the workplace is incredible. I used to be anti union as fuck in the US now I'm all about it.

Its just unreal.

>teachers' unions
Don't compare these abortions of the system to Skilled labor union halls. The concept is totally different. One ensures you cannot lose your job, while the other keeps you relevant in your position IF you choose.

Skilled tradesmen are fired or laid off regularly for being loads. Teachers are IMPOSSIBLE to fire because of tenure. We don't utilize tenure.

Good intentions with good first round wins that people all will agree are needed, but now are bloated and killing their host companies like parasites. You can literally not find a union within the United States that helps enhance production or the quality of goods. They literally all use it as a shield to hide poor performance behind.

>but now are bloated and killing their host companies like parasites.
I have had no issues seeing our signed contractors continue to grow and make money year after year.

I've been a teacher in both USA and Australia. The problem in the US educational system are a majority black/ghetto kids, the aftereffects of "no child left behind", and policies that the state has decided for most schools.

I can admit on your side that most teachers in the US are fucking mouthbreathers who do not deserve their pay and shouldn't be near kids. A large fault of this is the college/uni system that makes it stupidly easy for inept pieces of shit to reach those qualifications, but that goes for most careers in the US now.

Aussie teachers are stress-tested and prodded to such a degree that they may as well be ivy league professors compared to US educators.

>I have no problem with gooks in thailand continuing to grow and make money year after year

Historically and currently some of the most corrupt organizations. It's still way better than being on your own vs a giant corporation. Pick your poison with unions being some of the least harmful.

Puerto niggers giving us Puerto Ricans a bad name. Fuck them

Well when my company says they made just shy of 7 million dollars in profit for last year and that was a slow year. Now projecting to make almost 10 this year.
Not really feeling all that bad, when they constantly fuck me and coworkers over.

They are only necessary when businesses treat their employees like shitm. Dont want unions? Treat your employees decently and they will have no reason to join one.

Oh user you should just work harder then :^) don't be a silly commie!

Tell me more. I am a union tradefag thinking about living in Australia soon. Maybe permanently.

Protip: management actually love unions because its a scapegoat to blame all of management's fuckups on.

Government employee unions are cancer, except police unions.

t. union member

Something like 30% of businesses here have unions in them. The presence of that many unions causes even non-union employers to considerably "behave". I live in Queensland and every job I've seen offers 28 days vacation a year, australia has like 14 holidays and you either get each one off or make like doubletime on them. Superannuation makes 401k look like kiddo shit and you can earn a pension on top of all that. So like if I elect to have 8% removed from my paycheck, the gov tells my employer they have to then match that 8% and I get 16% of my paycheck into retirement each week but only lost 8%.

In the US I'd often get bullied to take my vacations in "pepperings" like 1 day here, 2 days there. In aus they aren't allowed to bully you even in the least for taking 2 weeks off. A lot of aussies love going on 4 week cruises and just save up for a year and take 4 weeks off, even if they're an operator of a specific machine in some factory.

Things are more expensive in aus (20-30% more usually) but you tend to make almost twice as much at entry level. I had to work entry level 3 years before I could cheaply get my qualifications to teach again. My first job was paying me 22 bucks an hour. You have dudes move out of their house at age 18 here and afford a car+studio apartment on part time mcdonalds job. Its nuts. Its like the 90's or 50's again.

Australia keeps itself very healthy by tariffing the living SHIT out of all incoming goods. That way most of its business doesn't move its production elsewhere.

>tfw interview extremely well but I’m a lazy fuck that just wants to work bare minimum

I love unions desu.

Cool man. I have fiberoptic and PLC certs, and a journeyman electrician license. Even with the mining downturn shit seems baby-boomer-EZ in Oz.

I thought rights were natural?

What about FF/police unions? I'm a member of the IAFF and our city hates us.

>better not think about organizing or even discussing your pay with other workers, goy, or we will ship your job overseas

Sounds like you class as a tradesman then and aussie is tradey crazy. Like 1/5 guys here just own a ute and do whatever, plumbing, roofing, electrician work. With stuff like yours you could end up working for Optus, Telstra, or even the city (choose gov job all time everytime). You'd be just fine man.

Don't forget free medical. Blew my mind when my aussie wife got in a car crash and was held for 2 nights as they continually scanned and checked her hurt spine and she came out 100% okay and it was like

>Uh what do we do
>"We just leave"
>Like, we just leave. We don't work out pay?
>"We just go"
>"Lets go"
> ok

Firefighters dont need a fucking union you spoiled shits barely work.

Police need a union to protect them from local politicians and corrupt leadership throwing them under the bus.

US cops deserve to be tossed under the bus, they're fucking terrible.

Working harder at my company just gives management an excuse to abuse the shit out of you. They know you work fast now so they dump all the tough work on your desk. Your reward for extra work? They won’t place you on the front lines for the next round of layoffs. Higher positions are reserved for friends or others with connections even if they are fucking stupid. Welcome to cuckalism. Enjoy your stay.

Some of them are fine in terms giving everyone in the union a decent amount of labor so that a new electrician in an area for example has any sort of a chance in the first place. On the other hand most unions nowadays are corrupt simply ways for union bosses to make easy money by preying on worker's salaries, and due to the many dands that unions give in terms of pushing for higher wages for less actual work, most of the businesses that deal with unions will go for as much automation as possible to reduce the number of employees.

I would like to finish my bachelors and get some more software certs as well. I just get bored doing the same thing so I like to switch gears. But whatever gets me in I dont care what I classify as. I cant imagine having 4 weeks paid vacation and you sont get fucked with for actually using it. I'm convinced.

so much this

If you can manage residency in Australia at some point they will give you a free Cert III. Aussie quals are different so look up if a bachelors will matter cause it might not.

Aus adult edu goes like so:

Cert 3 (3-9 months)
Cert 4 (12-16 months)
Diploma (2-3 years normally 3)

So 2 year diplomas dont normally transfer in every job. Thats why I had to do extra once here. My workbros from the UK had to do a year as well.

Yep its like that everywhere. Nobody promotes a great worker because that great worker is helping them reach their metrics so they get their performance bonuses all the way up the pyramid.

They're necessary but like any other organization they can be prone to corruption and wrongdoing so it's important to make sure you keep them under scrutiny. They aren't a bad thing like some people would like you to believe, you get your good and bad unions out there like anything else.

Lol yeah, FFs never have to deal with any life saving situations for which they could be sued. And no abuses from a city administration could ever happen because we "barely fucking work"

...retard

I think I will try the working-vacation visa program they have for a few months to see how I like it there first, but I am worried I am overqualified foe the shit work they seem to be targetting those visas at.

They're mostly for asians and other mudskins to find a way into the country.

Try meeting an aussie girl while here, they are not as bad as most other western women. Getting divorced here doesn't suck nearly as bad as the US if it goes to hell either. Marriage is just some waiting around, 200 pages of paperwork, a few dates and pictures of them, and bam you're in. Get married in Aus, not in US.

90% of the time you are sitting on your ass at the firehouse and you know it.

they're fine but need to be kept in check by an unbiased party, kinda like a union union
and they shouldn't be allowed for public employees

My station alone runs somewhere between 20 and 30 calls a day. That plus training, building code inspections and pub ed there's not much sitting around.

Thats nice to hear as US laws have made me disregard marriage as a sane option. Do aussie chicks take it up the butt? How would they react to a random thumb in their ass during doggy style, no lube not even spit (would spoil the surprise).

"Oi mayte I'm on tha rag so just chuck it in me dumpah" was a short lived Sup Forums meme here about visiting hostels.

[spoiler]Yes dude[/spoiler]

Sold!

Same story for me, bro.
I've been working management at UPS for a few years now and the union is nothing but loud, uppity, lazy commie fucks.
UPS management is severely underpaid because the value of the work that you and I do, which is easily worth tens of thousands of dollars (I'm responsible for moving over $1 million in product ever day) is reallocated to illegals and niggers that plateaued at a low skill wage job for 20 years.

It's nothing but marxism and wealth redistribution.

That actually sounds pretty comfy.

These things were invented in other countries without labor unions by using common sense.

Pensions are an invention by the state. Originally given to soldiers who served, eventually afforded to all government employees. This made the free market jobs less attractive so they had to implement them too. They are nothing more than a government program that damages everything great that the free market offers.

Most teamsters are good people and by and large very based.