How is altruism good? why would i want other people to benefit from my own work / money?

how is altruism good? why would i want other people to benefit from my own work / money?

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Due to reciprocal altruism if you scratch people's backs they might scratch yours

yeah that's still self interest though
it's the logic that makes some people give away their own happiness i'm trying to imagine... like people that would die for their country

because they'd do the same, in an ideal world but it isn't an ideal world so take it with a grain of salt

why should i copy their stupidity? it would be better to take advantage.

it's silly to answer a question, you don't agree with an answer yourself in your rebuttal.

The fuck is your issue?

i'm challenging your answer, this is quite normal.

>how is altruism good
Well, it isn't since people like you run around; which I already stated, tangetially, when I said "but it isn't ideal (speaking of the world). So really, what is your issue? So you are replying to me, thinking I think, altriusm is inherently good; which I don't since we don't live in an ideal world.

An answer to your statement will just continue to keep circling, you aren't challenging anything, you are basically agreeing with what I said or you simply can't read. But, out of my own altruism, I helped you out by unpacking what I said earlier

>;)

>Well, it isn't since people like you run around
it wouldn't be good even if everyone else in the world was altruistic. because it would be better to take advantage of the altruism than recriprocate.

It developed for a few reasons. Primarily for kin selection- helping people who share lots of genes with you. Second we have reciprocal altruism- you help me now, i help you later, or we help each other and achieve what we couldn't alone. The second version is obviously fraught with Prisoner's Dilemma problems, but it still works in many cases.

Our stories about 'ethics' probably stem from the fact that these sort of behaviors feel good because they were evolutionarily advantageous. On a more speculative note it could be that we evolved to lie to ourselves about things, inlcuding that we are 'altruistic', because it helps us play a character that lets us get ahead in social situations.

the thing is that you're taking advantage but since everyone is also giving it's a zero sum game.

How long would you play a game of, lets say, monopoly, when you're playing with someone who acts like the banks and according to his rules, he's allowed to take the banks money, if he so choses? Probably about 15 minutes.

Now, if you all follow the same rules, how long would you play then?
>inb4 i don't like monopoly

aha so you're arguing for reciprocal altruism as well. i suppose my answer is

To be fair, I doubt you've ever actually seen altruism in action -- I doubt most people have ever.

Egoism is the prime factor in human action. It's not inherently-good/bad but contextual, of course. If someone does a good deed, it gives them pleasure from helping another -- this goes for heroic deeds, especially, where life is risked. Egoism can be negative, such as people who feel good committing crime.

Altruism, however, is the antithesis of egoism: it's not done for pleasure or gratification, etc. It's done for... nothing; i.e. for someone to act altruistically, they must act with zero emotion which begs the question: why act? What's the motivation to act? There is none. I'm not saying altruism doesn't exist, it's just so rare that you've likely never witnessed it.

depends, dying for your country, might be reciprocal. This is really stretching it, I know, but if you want to fight for Amerca (for example) because you feel it's treated you good, why not? There's a difference between that and being drafted, obviously.

Yet, to make a case for pure altruism, pure altruism, is what would, ideally, happen in a family who have a child, atleast, the first few years of it's life.

how do you even distinguish between the two. it seems quite unfalsifiable.

Because it will get to the point when someone want to rape you and nobody will hear your cry for a nap

Python "Merchant Banker"

youtu.be/YUhb0XII93I

That isn't altruism.

dude read a fucking book

i care about happiness not about passing my genes on. if i cared about my genetics i would go to a sperm bank.

the people that arent working are the ones that think its good.

the book discusses the biological origins of altruism, dum dum
>not about passing my genes on
that's good, because by the sound of it you're probably not going to get much opportunity

Read every book. BTFO KEK

Good for the group, not necessarily the individual. Good for the genes not necessarily the individual. Consider genetically selected burdens as well as altruism and this is easy to understand (see peacock). There's a grad paper here still that could focus on empathy as burden to individual and boon to society.

if the book doesn't discuss utility then it's irrelevant. utility is all i care about unless you can persuade me otherwise

You should only help those who know how to help themselves but having a hard time for whatever reason that isn't their own fault. Once you help those who can't help themselves they become parasitic.

You're getting it now. The real redpill is egoism.

It does discuss utility you willfully ignorant fuck. It posits that utility of the gene supercedes utility of the individual.

this, altruism is good when everyone else works for the greater good except you

>Other people

lel, nice dualism you got there

The real redpill is egoism a la LaVey's Church of Satan.

there are not lines at the sperm bank, why? individual is above the genetic imperative.

my happiness is slightly dependent on my family but most encounters in an industrial society are only very occassional

If you read the book you'd find multiple examples demonstrating how evolution has selected for the group (genes) over the individual.

How is your continued living good? Why would I want to keep a machiavellian piece of shit like you alive?

so altruism could make me happier for that reason? i get it

what about the person that doesn't feel any pleasure from it?

fascists are machiavellian and selfish for 99% of humanity, individualists just go a little further

Depends how strong you want society to be. You dying for your country might mean your kids living in a better place.

The idea is that when everybody practices it, it works out in everybody's favor. It's simply the idea of working together to achieve something greater than the individual can achieve alone. You cannot build your own house in a day, but if the whole neighborhood helps you, then we can. And then you can help build your neighbor's house when the time comes. Or when a friend needs something you help them out because you expect that they'll help you when the time comes.

It isn't. Don't ever work for free.