Why did losing to Guts mindfuck Griffith so hard?

why did losing to Guts mindfuck Griffith so hard?

bc the birdman thought he have guts on his hand, he thought he was on control. too bad for him

the real question is how did he think he was gonna win with that twig

Anyone notice that Guts looks like we do irl? He doesnt look much like an anime character

Getting dunked on by one of your underlings hurts.

He was his best friend, and he loved him.
It wasn't losing to Guts that fucked Griffith up. It was the fact that Griffith lived his entire life thinking that what he wanted was to become the king, and that his Band of the Hawk were all expendable pawns.
But, over time, he slowly grew to care personally and deeply for them. They became his family, and he loved them.
So, without Guts there, becoming King lost its value. It meant nothing if he didn't have his family there with him.
Griffith was unable to realize that he felt this way, though. Not until it was too late. We learn this in his vision about being married to Casca, where he admits that a peaceful life with the people he loves wouldn't be so bad. But, by that point, it's too late, because he fucked up and was tortured into a mentally and physically broken husk. That's why The Golden Age arc is such a tragedy.
Also, Guts's character arc in The Golden age is very similar to Griffith's. Where Griffith had a defined goal, and failed to realize what really mattered to him until it was too late, Guts felt like he lacked purpose, failing to realize that what he wanted was right there all along, until it was too late.
But, yeah. TL:DR: Griffith didn't want to lose his best friend, but he was too autistic to realize that that's what he was feeling.

This tbqh, dexfags have mental issues.

well said, thanks.

He'd beaten him in the past with it.

No problem, user.

Manga > Anime

I recall that being an actual duel I don't remember them directly striking each other head on like pic related.
but I could be wrong even so you could argue that was a younger version of guts and that his blows were weaker at the time.
for griffith to face a man who he already knew was strong and had handled a great sword for years it wasn't a really good idea to go for such straight forward sword play regardless.

because Guts had surpassed him at something.

He was weaker than him before and now he was stronger, this made Grifith realize his dream might not be so firmly in his grasp as he believed and it made him scared.

I can already see the ending; When Guts finished venturing the whole world after many struggles and finally kills him, Griffith last words would be: "See, you really was my perfect friend".

I dont even know how do i feel about a ending like this

Guts cannot win without some fairy power helping him.

This.

A magic upgrade on Dragonslayer would be pretty nice, and the fact that Rickert succeeds Godo on blacksmithing, he probably has some new sick shit for Guts, he will be an adult when the crew left Elfhelm.

AAAH ANO HI NO YUME

Guts is the only person Griffith ever loved.

I've always liked how the duel was over in one move. any other manga or anime would have drawn it out over many chapters and done a big huge action scene with big action effects.

...

That's really just the kind of guy he is, y'know.

It is just to build the drama.

Utter bullshit. Griffith didn't care about some retarded power levels; he just wanted Guts and had loved him in his weird dysfunctional way for years. Reread Casca's monologues to Guts about it and the chapters with Griffith in prison.
>Do I need a reason every time I put myself in harm's way for your sake?

>He was his best friend, and he loved him.

Thank God I'm not the only one who kind of got that feeling from their scenes.

Here's the thing though, that actually exposed some pretty complex feelings I didn't know I had.

I'm straight, like I've never been into dudes or attracted to any form of masculinity. I'm about to marry a girl I'm in love with.

But that scene where Guts finds Griffith naked, pouring cold buckets of water over himself in order to sober up. They engage in a water fight provoked by Griffith, I just wanted to see Griffith grab Guts by the scruff of the neck, and pull down his pants revealing a pale, hairless, plump ass. And then I wanted to see Griffith stroking his throbbing rod of Hawk dick, and just go to town on Guts's quivering feminine butthole. I wanted to watch Griffith cum in Guts's ass and dominate him on every level.

I fully wanted to see that.

What does that mean about me?

Because Guts was his bestest friend ever.

The band of the Hawk is made of people who follow Griffith but don't really get him. They are yes-men. Even Casca. And as such they are expendable.

Guts is the only one who can stand close to Griffith, and Griffith actually opens up to Guts. Without Guts, the guy has absolutely no one. He has underlings and enemies, but not friends.

Losing him when he wanted so badly to keep him at his side till the end causes him to completely freak out.

>but not friends.
but that's not true. In the fountain scene with the princess, he says everyone in the band is beneath him (literally not his "equal") because they cling to his dream instead of having their own. That definitely include Guts who always says "just give me the order already instead of asking me." Guts is definitely a yes man. though he is the closest "non-equal" griffith has.

after thinking about it I don't agree with this anymore. I think the freak out is not that griffith lost a friend, is that a "mere stone on the side of the road" to his dream not only stood up to him, but actually fucking wrecked him completely. He never thought this was possible, and I think that's what made him lose it.

My guess is that
>Guts was his true friend
>Griffith felt that Guts was the only person who pursed the same ideal as him side by side, not from the behind like the rest of the crew
>Griffith felt that Guts understood his ideals and liked him as a person

Guts leaving may have made Griffith feel that he was now completely alone and now that the person Griffith relied on in reshaping and reinforcing his own dreams is gone, Griffith truly felt "lost".

You're bi

The manga's gotten boring and soft. From hyper violent gore and revenge to fairy fucks and 'm-muh nakama'.

Yay, I'm on the same boat with other people.

Bird Person is now Phoenix Person

it's called character development look it up

>boat
T R I G G E R E D

And then we get this shit almost immediately afterwards. That's the point. Griffith says no one can be his equal, or his friend, if they aren't a certain way. Which drives Guts to go off on his own to become worthy to be Griffith's friend. But Griffith's reaction makes it clear Guts, and the others, were already his friends. He just couldn't admit it because of the standards he lived his life by. That disconnect is a major part of why he loses it immediately after that.

I also never really see Rickert's scene with Griffith compared to this Guts one, despite being somewhat similar in theme. Both are about the person leaving Griffith choosing between following their own life and ideals and staying under Griffith. It's Griffith's reaction that seems to change. Griffith had an autistic melt down when Guts did it, but the new Falcon of Light or whatever just goes "I see" and walks away. The present Griffith is the kind of above it all monarch the Griffith in the past wanted to be, but couldn't because of the power of friendship.

considering how well drawn the manga, all its anime are disasters

Other anons put it well, losing to Guts didnt upset Griffith. Losing Guts is what upset him, for several reasons.
Primarily, Griffith had long since believed that Guts was his forever. In his mind, Guts being able to walk away broke the facade of control. If Guts can leave, so can casca, or any other band of the hawk members.
On another point, Guts was the only person Griffith really cared about. He wouldn't have run up to Zodd to save casca, only Guts. So losing the only thing he wanted to keep kind of invalidated his whole dream.
All of this taken in consideration, don't forget that Griffith is literally incapable of seeing this. All he understood at the moment was that he was fucking despondent and nothing was worth anything anymore, so he did what anyone would want to do, get some young puss.

...

Now I agree with your points except I'm quite uncertain he considered all of the hawks his close friends and family.
Now the fact that they were indeed sacrifices dispute my claim because the sacrifices has to be something one loves.

The thing I have trouble with is that during the eclipse, Griffith is seen thinking of Guts as "the only one" "the only one who made me forget about my dream". To me this indicates that its really only Guts who mattered to him and in the end, the Hawks were still expandable, but not Guts.

>because "MUH DREAM"

Man Femto has some serious cameltoe.

That's gay man
There's such thing as platonic man love

Griffith is powersexual.

well you ain't seen nothing yet

Faggot

Yea I have to agree. I thought this was the most obvious interpretation but reading this thread tells me that is not the case.

All of this.

Griffith loved guts but was too stubborn and autistic to realize it. Guts is the only person who made him forget the dream he was fighting for his whole life.

That is perfectly heterosexual user. Don't worry about it.

Camaraderie has been a theme in Berserk since Golden Age, and the fantasia arc hasn't been that long anyway if you look at it objectively. The story would be utter shit if it were nonstop violence without any character development.

To this day I unironically believe Femto's design to be cool as fuck.

It looks like he's over compensating. Like under the armor he's still the cripple. I know the armor is like his first layer of skin, but honestly I'd love it if the outer layer were to break revealing that he's still Griffith that got tortured.

To think Berserk was such a masterpiece, and now it's nothing more than LOTR lite.

He is and was always a sociopath. Everything and everyone in Griffith's world was either an obstacle to be removed or a tool to be used. He never loved anyone but himself. The loss mindfucked him because he finally found someone he couldn't subjugate to his will, and it's kind of hard to continue believing you're going to subjugate the whole world when you fail to subjugate a single man. Furthermore, he had come to rely on Guts as a critical element in the realisation of his dream. Losing his most prized possession, as well as his certainty of his superiority to those around him, in one stroke was too much for his ego to handle.

Griffith said that the only person he would consider his friend is an equal, and yet anyone who rivals him is seen as either a rival or a means to his own ends. His terms for friendship are impossible to meet. And it turned out to be a lie because Guts clearly did become his equal. In fact, Griffith was so physically and mentally broken that Guts had become his superior. According to his own words, Griffith should then have thought of Guts as his friend. But he didn't. It was when Guts had done all that he needed to do to be considered a friend--when Guts was at his highest and Griffith at his lowest--that Griffith was most willing to sacrifice him.

IT objectively is

They should start doing IQ tests before you're allowed to post here.

If only.

>wanting to hear other people's thoughts on a matter is stupid

your post was a bigger offender to board quality than this thread

I say it wasn't one big thing but several little things that happened in such a sort time frame that broke Griffith
> First time everything does not go according to keikaku for him
> The closest thing he had as a friend leaving
> Losing probably the best solider he had in his army for any and all future campaigns.
> Seeing your other soldiers waver between the two of you and not 100% behind you like usual

On top of that iirc the resulting event that fucked everything up was the same night that the duel ended so it could be labeled as nothing but a rash spur of the moment action. Say if there where about a weeks ride away from the castle, Griffith probably would of never done what he did, yes he'd still be royally pissed at guts but you can see in all versions that instead of basking of the afterglow of that nights conquest, you can tell the only thing on Griffiths mind is that he is never going to be king now.

it proved that his plot armor wasn't as impenetrable as he originally believed

honestly needs a Pepe finger to be complete

why does Guts become mexican for 1 frame after getting splashed?

Applies to every manga to anime adaption, really

I can't believe the entire basis of Berserk is all over some gay misunderstanding.

Griffith didn't lose at all prior to then. He's a guy who's so used to having his way & winning everything that he couldn't cope with the smallest failure, let alone losing Guts.

Sonia, did i ever tell you about guts? I tried to decapitate him when he tryed to leave me and when that failed i summed many demons to kill his friends and made him watch as i raped his girl friend.

he was a good friend

wrong, he genuinely loved guts he even talks about guts is the only person who made Griffith lose sight of his dream. Thats why his whole speech about friend ship didnt make sense

that'd be brilliant

10/10.

He loved Guts the most out of all of them. Griffith still cared about his other friends as more than tools, though he'd never admit it partially because he knows they expect him to be this perfect being that would bring about a better world with his dream. Guts was different he believed in Griffith too, but he also had his own path that he wanted to walk so he became Griffith's closest friend and probably the only he cherishes above the dream. Remember the vision he had of the kid who died? He can expend the other Hawks because they were willing to die for his dream, but he knew that Guts had his own path.

Sonia, have I ever told you about the time Guts foolishly tried to 1v1 Zodd over there and nearly got himself killed? I risked my life to save him.
Or how about the time, in a moment of weakness, I slept with the princess? I was tortured for a year straight and left crippled. You see, Guts wasn't around to save me because he had abandoned us -- the hawks.

We had fun together.

>guts is the only person who made Griffith lose sight of his dream
That's because Guts was the one person he couldn't subjugate. He lost sight of his dream when he realised that someone was better than him. It has nothing to do with love.

>Guts thought Griffith was strong and would shrug off a loss
>Griffith thought Guts was weak and would never get a win over him

whoa....it's like poetry

thats not true, griffith already subjugated guts at this point it was only after guts heard him talk about dreams that he decided to leave. You need to reread the manga imo

Yer a faggot harry

I have read the manga. Griffith subjugated him in their first duel, and Guts won his freedom in the second. Griffith lost control of Guts after their second fight: he lost his most prized possession.

You're confusing Guts' feelings toward Griffith for Griffith's feelings towards Guts. Guts may have loved Griffith, but Griffith never loved Guts. This should have been abundantly clear to you when Griffith decided to sacrifice him. When pushed to his very limit, and stripped of all his power, we see exactly what kind of person Griffith is/was.

>Guts was his most prized possession
user, that's what people call love. Guts had become literally the most important thing to Griffith. He loved Guts. Even more so than his dream, which he held so high.

No nigga that's what people call domestic abuse

Obsession? Yes. Abuse? No.

>how does abuse start

>all these literal queers, faggots, and hairy unloved yaoi loving fangirls trying to turn berserk gay
Nah. You cum lusting homos can neck yourselves. Griffith was not sexually attracted to Guts. He just realized he was the closest thing to a true friend he ever had. Since Guts was special, like Griffith. Even if Guts didn't know it his passion for fighting and drive was the root of Griffith's own dream.

He saw a kindred spirit in Guts and realized too late Guts would be forced to leave to find his own dream after Griffith was already past that point and nearing his apex.

Because he was a little bitch. That's basically it.

>protecting and being willing to abandon your dreams for someone
>abuse

>PRIZED POSSESSION

...

I wouldn't consider Griffith gay for Guts. Love doesn't have to be just sexual attraction. I'm just saying that if Griffith had the choice between the most perfect girl you could imagine or just Guts, he'd pick the latter.

STRAIGHT AWAY THE GAY IN THIS THREAD

...

Mate, even dense as fuck Guts had some idea about what Griffith was. And don't forget the "I'll be your soldier, your whore, whatever you want" line.

>My love for you...
is like a truck

He was full of piss and ready to get revenge on Griffith. Griffith's earlier statement made it unclear if he was a fruit. Guts told him in an act of bravado if Griffith beat him he could do anything to him. Since he didn't believe he could lose.

You can go smoke as many cocks as you like but don't project your queer shit into Berserk.

Put your trip back on, Hawk.

>Or how about the time, in a moment of weakness, I slept with the princess? I was tortured for a year straight and left crippled.
And got thousands of followers killed because of that :^)

>inspired by Devilman and shoujo manga
>not gay as hell
Pick one and only one.

Griffith was a textbook sociopath. Everything about him can be understood with that in mind, including his feelings and motivations and his warped idea of "friendship"

Now, sociopaths in real life don't get handed hax powers out of nowhere nor are chosen by fate to be ubermensch a millenium before their own birth, so they rarely walk down the same exact path

Griffith had the high ground though.

Fag.

this

Not the second time, but Guts was wounded.
Still a foolish move to try and take on Guts after he's grew so much on the battlefield. Even Griffith knew it was risky but did anyway because sociopath

>tfw you groom a nigga into a literal one man army and think it's a good idea to duel him

In that regards, Griffith is pretty similar to Guts. He gets into a conflict and thinks later.

It should be noted that when Guts and Griffith went up against Zodd, Griffith was the one who actually cut Zodd's arm off with his saber.

How can people say Miura's art improved with time? He only draws more excessive detail that doesn't favour the pages half of the time.

Berserk's art peaked around the last third of Golden Age through the Conviction arc, with my personal favorite period being Eclipse-Lost Children. There was no need to draw "omg so impressive" overdetailed stuff and fake realistic faces when the whole aesthetic worked as a cohesive whole, from the artstyle to the panneling and page layout. That vague Go Nagai influence held it all together. Now he doesn't do that anymore and the manga just lacks that vitality it had at that time.