The success of socialist economies...

The success of socialist economies. In this thread I will show examples of how succesfull the economies of communist states are. I will use the worldbank as a source, except when it's not available, you can find the numbers from their datasite.

Cuba

Cuba can be regarded as the poster child of the communist countries that still exists today. They were far less genocidal than likes of stalin, and they have managed to maintain their socialist system even after the fall of the soviet union. What's more impressive is that they've done all this while being embargoed and surrounded by their enemies. Note that only countries that are reasonably large are considered in this analysis, so tax haven islands are left out. Here are its accomplishments:

Number two in terms of gdp per capita (PPP) in all of latin america. The first one is chile, however cuba is a close second and does this without resources like copper or oil. (Data is only available for 2011.)

Number one in having the lowest child mortality. Cuba has the lowest child mortality in all of the latin america. Infact, they even beat western countries like the united kingdom. This truly tells of a effective healthcare system, and it's no wonder that cuba actually sends aid to other south american nations and does very much advancced research in this area.

The cuban healthcare system also shows its strength in the life expectancy of its people, again number one in all of the latin america. Maybe americans could learn a bit from this island?

I could go on, but it's clear from this that the cuban system of socialism has been a great economic success for the provision of wealth into its citizens. Some might however wonder, that why then are cubans escaping to the US? Well, latin americans in general are going to the US in drowes, so expecting cubans to behave differently would be an error.

Other examples will follow in this thread.

Other urls found in this thread:

es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damas_de_Blanco
youtube.com/watch?v=X7le5GPJpbE
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Food?

Every modern nation has socialist economic policy.

>Cuba is so good
Stop right there.

Already answered this in the op, read it.

The communism causes starvation meme is really funny, when one considers that socialism might be the number one stopper of starvations worldwide. Tsarist russia, imperial china and many others had severe famines before they turned communist, but once the economic reforms were done under communist leadership the famines ended. Furthermore, blaming stalin and communism for the soviet famines is unreasonable, as the soviet union experienced three of the most desructive wars in human history which caused these famines.

That's NOT an answer it's a dodge. You must explain WHY they would leave such a great country (as opposed to central americans leaving their shitty countries) and WHY they would do so on literal trash floats.

Meanwhile, In ANCAP land

>stopper of starvations
W R O N G

Communism is the ONLY thing that has made Whites starve in the last century other than literal WAR.

Well the US in general is wealthier than all of latin america, so it's no wonder that some cubans might want to move. I do however question how many cubans move in total, and if socialism is so bad and capitalism so good, then why are latin americans moving away also from capitalist countries? One cannot do a reasonable comparison between two different countries, so cuba must be compared to other latin american countries for fair results.

Russia has had famines periodically for all history. If you were to extend that graph further you'd see that tsarist russia also had many famines. Furthermore, the soviet union experienced the first world war, then the civil war, and then the second world war, three of the most destructive wars in european history. Expecting them to maintain perfect food supplies is unreasonable.

>pre-pre-modern agriculture famines are the same as famines after 1900
OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

>famine that happens in 1895 is totally different from a famine which hapens in 1905 under the same leadership and same country

Tsarists russia did not have to deal with the problems that the ussr did, like embargos and war, but they still managed to cause a famine during the late 19th century which killed almost a million.

Russia had pre-modern Agriculture before Stalin's modernisation, so IDK what you're implying.

>not living in a cottage (1 out of 5) near your family's house on 5 acres
>not living in a household of 9 working adults, that are all either professionals or high skilled laborers (I'm a mechanic myself)
>not having an annual household income average of about $517k a year (for 2015, after taxes)
>not having a 14'x50' greenhouse, with vertical & container gardens, harvesting 300lbs+ of fruits, veggies, spices and herbs every 3 months
>not having 700lbs+ of fish+game meat in freezer and dry freeze form
>not living in this particular style of setup for two generations, 32+ years and going
>not having a monthly bill of household expenses of $90 for each working adult
>not astronomically saving, pooling and investing for 40+ years in this family
t.Texasfag

Here is a chart of meat consumption, ignorant burger.
Will you ever stop parroting msm lies?

Bump for socialism! I wonder why this thread has so few posts, maybe the capitalists are afraid.

It does seem like this thread is not getting much traffic, so I'll make a seprate thread for the other countries.

>I will use the ((worldbank)) as a source.

you are not fooling anybody here kid.
fuck commies, I'm starting a helicopter rental service. with severe reduced prices for a certain group of ((people))

Socialism has been so much of a fucking failure that every single socialist government has inevitably collapsed.

Why would people believe your bullshit?

Also cuba is a shithole that people try to escape each year?

lmao why do socialists still exist?

sage

kys faggot

>Numbers are real except when they disagree with me.

You can compare these numbers to cia world factbook statistics.

>communism
>succesful

Oh my fucking god. Is there anyone who actualy think like this?
If so there's another reason to reignite ovens

>The success of socialist economies
>The success
>Success
Low bait. I rate 2/10

reminder that Marx' analysis of capitalism is still the one and only truth, even if there is no resolution for the problems

>reminder that marxism is a cult religion and everyone should only believe what our lord and savior Karl Marx said, regardless of all evidence.
kys nigger

The point about moving to US has been answered multiple times in this thread. Mexico is capitalist so I suppose no mexicans ever move to the US, oh wait.

Look at all the socialist jobs created when a Dear Leader goes on a killing spree, wiping out hundreds of thousands, which keeps getting repeated every few years.

The economic freedom index is calculated so that already succesfull countries are likely to get a high score even if they’re rather socialist. Anyways one cannot use these numbers to compare communist and capitalist countries anyways. Also last time I checked china, cuba, vietnam, laos, and even nk are still up.

>Heritage foundation

Because neocons are so based am I right.

Have you read any Marx? It's honestly quite interesting to see how his ideas still holds up over a hundred years after his death. The main issue with Marx is not his approach and dissection of capitalist ideology, but the resolution he offers is simply not satisfactory and I fully admit that it does not work. We've seen that it does not work. However, does this really affect the validity of the problem this solution attempts to rectify?

Consider modern neonazi or whatever you wanna call it rhetoric, it many ways it mirrors the original Marxist view of capitalism, but with racism tacked on. I mean, what do the jews really represent in this sort of ideology? They're the international bourgeois, which already is an incredibly Marxist view of things.

Again, I strongly suggest you read some political theory, instead of educating yourself on this silly website.

see

>so expecting cubans to behave differently would be an error.

Cubans fleet their socialist paradise island because Mexicans are fleeing their corrupt crime infested wasteland because they look the same and speak the same language?

Why do you want to enslave me OP? Why can't you just get a job?

One could also make a graph comparing the levels of social security to economic growth and obtain a similar result. Had china gone full capitalist it’s very likely that their economy would have greatly suffered, but rather they went with very limited capitalism, perfectly inline with socialist principles. You are really doing cherry picking, because you pick and choose real communist, and not real communist based on how succesfull they are, and not based on their actual policy. If you did a consistent comparison you’d find that even ussr was ”capitalist” because of lenin’s nep. However, state capitalism (what china does) is perfectly inline with socialism and therefore china is communist.

His dissection of Capitalism is complete garbage to begin with.

He's a simpleton that literally think "means of production" for goods/services are machines/companies..etc. and made up an entire theory for the public ownership of these secondary and tertiary items thinking it will bring some form of equity.

The root of all wealth, the primary "means of production" is the human mind and body. Unless you are in favor of making the entire population drones to the State, equity in Marxist sense is an illusion.

>The root of all wealth, the primary "means of production" is the human mind and body
I don't see how this invalidates anything, this sounds really good and only reinforces the weight of the capitalist problem.
Capitalism permeates the very being of the people. Capitalism and consumerism have seeped deeply into the human condition, life is largely a matter of sustaining continued consumption and furthering the capital gain of both yourself and the factory owners.
In marxist theory, the "means of production" are a metaphysical concept, not the actual things that are used to produce.

>Unless you are in favor of making the entire population drones to the State, equity in Marxist sense is an illusion.
I explicitly stated that I disagreed with the communist solution to the problem of capitalism, so I have no idea why you even bother bringing this up.

>In 1936 the system was still not "reforemed" in the USSR

I'm Cuban. This is so fucking stupid people in Holguin fucking starve you annoying cunt!! I fucking hate lying communist college kids like you who spew lies by state fixed census's and demographics that are polled by neighborhood leaders which are communist officials. FUCK YOU.

Everybody dreams of moving. People get packages sent from them states and then they are give out illegally by gang members and they get money from it. (reparteros, if u are spanish speaking). Alot of the western influence makes people dream of going to the yuma yanqui paradise but only the ones with the most connections are able to leave. (This is usually whites, which is why miami has a bunch of white cubans and cuba is a non-white shithole).

>people die of starvation
>stop starving
Makes sense.

You do realize, that capital gain, in a system that illegitimize physical coercion, is not a zero sum game right?

In simple terms, there's two ways to get wealthy; produce/trade product/services of your own, or steal product/services of others.

This obsolete Robber Baron concept that for someone get to rich he must have stolen from those poorer is literally debunked with the simplest analysis.

Every single ""socialist""" country is actually a fascist country. Real socialism was never tried, but only because it is unimplementable.

What is "stealing" in this context?

I really doubt that both the world bank and cia would together collaborate to make communism more appealing when they’re both opposed to it. I would like to see your sources because it would be strange for a country to have such a high life expectancy and low infant mortality if there was starvation. Maybe you’re talking about the special period when ussr fell?

>Being this naive

The other guy didn't have any previous agreement with you and is now saying "no", but you take his watermelon or design for a cold-fusion reactor anyway because you have a group of thugs with guns that's making him an offer he can't refuse.

That sort of "stealing".

I LIVED IN CUBA FOR 8 YEARS YOU RETARDED RED CUNT!!!

Let me explain something to you. In every neighbrohood or municipality (small district i guess), there is a representative that is elected by the government. This person ON HIS/HER OWN creates the census poll. You see the problem in this? People will report that someone has food when really he has none. Most of the time people get said position by snitching on people who break rules, like people who buy merchandise from reparteros. The snitches/communists get this posititon and naturally they warp it because they want to look good.

Cuba is not a fucking paradise and If you think so I suggest you visit it sometime. And everybody lives longer also because there isn't as much stress as non-"""socialist""" countries.

Cuba is still a 3rd world shit hole so No Thank You

Why aren't you ok with socialized healthcare and education and want to go full commie?I like my propriety to be private, thank you.

Well clearly this does not negatively restrict the prosperity of cuba if one compares their gdp (PPP) per capita or infant mortality to nearby countries. Do you have any sources for your claims?

But what about this kind of "stealing"?
>this guy has superior capital and means to gain capital, effectively depriving your access to the market as a competitor

>prosperity of cuba
you lying faggots make me laugh

and >gdp per capita


Do you know how ''''socialism'''' works in Cuba? They tell you the Cuban dollar = American dollar, or even better the Euro. Then they say it can buy a bunch of bread in Spain or Mexico or whatever. But you can't export the money. And everybody has ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD! But there's a catch! A fatal flaw!!


There is no food.
There is no housing.

What good is 5 million dollars for food if theres only two loaves of bread at the supermarket? To survive you need a person in government who has special permissions. The (PPP) is a fucking dogshit lie and I suggest you read up on how Cuba's economy works.

>sources
I was born and raised in Cuba. Everybody in my family is Cuban. I know how this shit works. Do me a favor, go to miami and ask around to ref barcero dudes and ask them how ''''socialism''' works in Cuba.

This is obviously an extreme case but the local comitern presidents or however its called deem these ''houses''.

The market is just other people. Potential customers.

Do people, do the market, care how much money/capital companies that sell them product/services have? Or do they just care about the product/services they are getting?

Are you saying, without having more money, more capital, than the current players of an industry, there is no way a startup can come up with an innovative product/service to slowly win over customers, win over the market?

I mean come on, this is the 21 century for Christ's sake.

But surely if there was a huge shortage of food it would be reflected on the life expectancy. Also I really doubt that cuba would be capable of producing that much medical research if they would be that poor. Sup Forums posts don’t count as sources.

socialistic economies transform people into retarded bydlo and create the degenerate inertia which goes through several generations

My grandfather is one of these medical scientists. The state literally keeps him hostage to keep working on thing.

Okay then go to Miami and ask. Fuck you. You haven't lived in hell for 8 years you stupid red college lazy piece of shit faggot fuck

And I already told you that people live longer because less stress than a capitalist system.

It’s a pity that your grandfather is a hostage, but the cuban medical sciences truly are exceptional for such a situation. You should tell all the starving africans that they just need to relax to live without food. The high life expectancy means that there is atleast enough food to live.

Africans =/= Cubans you stupid nigger

Sorry to hear about your family and sorry for white cucks like commenter above. Cubans are excellent advocates against communism

>Cuba
LMAO they sat back and sucked up the billions of rubles sent over by the USSR. Easy to prosper when you get free cash for nothing. Try again.

You need to practice your reading comprehension.

Strange thing ussr fell 30 years ago but cuba is still here.

Because we're ingenous. My grandfather is part of the team thats working on the cancer thing or what have you. He used to do give state mandated interviews and was extradited to Columbia to record them for Colombian tv. Spanish people live long anyways (look at spain, and im talking white spanish, not latin american monkeys). And yes there obviously is enough food to live but that doesn't mean that there isn't starvation for fucks sakes. I remember i nthe early 2000's there was a huge problem in oriente because the supermarkets didnt ahve enough food and all of the food was going to matanzas and havana.

Funny how the most rabid anti-communists are victims of communism huh?

Because Cuba exists in a political limbo where state intervention is impossible. You know it too.

...

>the US in general is wealthier than all of latin america,

in general? please show me

why is it wealthier?

you are dropping so much spaghetti it isn't even funny

sage

they have doctors in Cuba, great. those same doctors could be making 200K in the US.

they are being exploited, but you don't care, as long as they are forced to treat underachieving faggots... it's fine

who cares about long life if you can do basically shit with it?

>tfw your country is so successful it collapses

Starvation is defined as extreme hunger so if there is enough food then it’s not starvation. Anyways we must compare cuba to other latin american countries for fair analysis. Incidentally capitalist latin american countries do have starvation and lower life expectancy.

es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damas_de_Blanco

read up on our paradise

Because they're not white and don't know how to manage an economy. They also have different geography and neighboring nations which attributes to criminal violence and ruins their nations.

give me ONE reason i should believe the statistics of our overlords?

I'm waiting

If we assume that their failiures are because of race then how come you assume that cuba’s failiures are not because of race? (I would propose a different reason.) Also cuba beats latin american countries like the dominican republic and puerto rico, even though they are very similar except for the economic model.

Cuba doesn't beat Puerto Rico and the Dominican republic is 5% white and borders an african nation.

Also, I'm gonna leave now, if u want to resume convo i'll be on in like 30 minutes, add me on discord if you like kerokopi#8087

I must admit pierto rico does quite well, however receiving aid from the US instead of being embargoed does help.

Because otherwise we can’t make any arguments for the truth of anything. How can you disaprove the claim that somalia is a paradise without statistics?

Also in terms of ethnicities cuba is closer to the dominican republic than puerto rico. See you soon.

i meant statistics from our overlord. Commie education must be pretty bad.
how about some independent sources.
remember, history is written by the winner. (hate to admit, commies are winning)

Do you really enjoy the world as it is today?

What is your opinion on the Holodomor?

Independent sources agree with what I am saying. Please show me your contradicting evidence. Also one really has to so some mental gymnastics to think that the modern neoliberal world is communist in any way, but yes I don’t like it.

>Number two

Nice try faggot. Go to a commie country and stop bothering us all.

The reason free market economies don't do very well is because the fucking government is always sticking their noses in and fucking up. They do that is because faggots like you, who don't know shit about economy, elect them.

kys and saged

...

Gdp per capita (PPP) =/= total absolute gdp

They’re both usefull metrics, but your failiure to inderstand their difference makes me think of you as a troll.

that is not how it works. you made a claim so it is up to you to come up with reasonable sources. I encourage you to watch this youtube.com/watch?v=X7le5GPJpbE

Cliche i know. but observe the EU Parliament members loathing over the fact they have lost due to democracy.

I'm back, and not true.. Dominican republic is estimated to be 5-12% white and Cuba is 40-65% estimate white. There is a large difference. You have probably been to neither of those countries.

I like some of nigel’s policies, but his economic ideas make me think of him as a closet tory. I hope you’re not asserting that the EU is communist? Anyways what’s independent enough for you, the WHO?

Where are you getting those numbers from? When I checked it dominican’s where 53 % white genetically.

We both know those numbers aren't true. They are admixture, meaning if you have white ancestry.

Real statistics. Cuba isn't on there but Dominicians viewed their country 1.5 times whiter than they really are, so I did the math and Cuba came out to be around 42-45% white.

isn't the basic of communism the centralization of power? look at eastern Europe and what they have to endure by just saying no to the EU.
its a disgrace. I think it is save to say the polish had their fair share of communism in the past. And now history is repeating its self. only difference is that the orders no longer come from Moscow but from Brussels.

just want to mention this is nothing personal to your beliefs, i think part of being democratic is accepting others have a different world view.

Fare enough, although I generally don’t trust wikipedia numbers without cross referencing. However I would still question the race hypothesis by pointing out that cuba beats argentina and it does it while under an embargo.

Actually cuba is between argentina and uruguay in terms of gdppcppp. However even if we assume the race hypothesis to be true we have then shown that capitalism socialism are equally effective economically when you give socialism hindrances like diplomatic isolation, but that socialism is far more effective at providing national health.

No it doesn't. Stop believing the purchasing power meme. I already explained it in

Cuba is NOT the posterchild you're looking for. Try Vietnam or something idk.

That’s episode two of these threads.

>The cuban healthcare system also shows its strength
lmfao theyre 3rd world level and the govt hides its inefficiency. Venezuela refused Cuban doctors because they wee so under trained. One account said the doctor looked worse than the refugees.

>ANCAP land
>literally a shithole full of communists and muslims

As a Cuban I find this hard to believe, sorry. Atleast now you know why Cuba's purchasing power is raised that way. It in no way means that it's a paradise man.

you do realize that doesnt help your point right. lol at 1964 especially

I used to work in Key West. Your perception of Cuba is completely false. Weekly we would pick up Cubans in the Keys that got past the Coast Guard trying to flee Cuba from everything from Political persecution to Economical stances.

The country is stuck in the 1950's with a limited population that it's sole purpose is to provide for the Castro family.

It is rather Ironic the you OP are posting from an area that is not Cuba and you do not live in Cuba. If Cuba is sooooooo wonderful, how about you build a bullshit innertube raft and float your communist ass back across the Florida Straits with all of your communist buddies to Cuba. When you get there, be sure to get on Sup Forums and tell the rest of us how fucking great it is. Oh wait...........Yeah............