Localization vs Strict Translation

which do you prefer?

Cant wait for GOTY false mask

>not false face

I never understood that translation. Masks are a big deal literally and metaphorically in the game.

I find that to be a very context heavy answer.

Because False Mask is retarded. You can't have a false mask. If a mask is a mask it's by it's very nature still a mask. A mask however IS by definition a false face or a guarded face.

Saying False Mask is basically saying False False Face which ATM Machine retarded

just say alcohol desu

I think you can leave in "osake." Most people have a pretty good idea of what sake is and the actual context of a raging alcoholic chugging it down would be a pretty good indicator that's booze.

But yeah you could just have her say "booze"

as literal as possible barring stuff that just doesn't make sense
it's stupid things like "samurai" stays samurai but for whatever reason something like "youkai" can't be youkai

Yokai has a fairly reliable equivalent in ghost specter, spirit etc. The major difference with yokai isn't the definition of the word it's the way societies view it and that can be expressed via context.

Samurai and Knights aren't the same shit at all though.

>VA: M-masaka...
>Sub: By the Twelve Divines, what is that?!

Strict translation always, even with world play. Just put in a translator note, I'll pause and read it.

two sub tracks so everyone is happy

>Leave samurai as samurai
>translate Bushin as 'warrior'

>both games localized this year
Better than than never I guess.

Translation with optional notes. Jesus, a little foreign culture won't kill people.

Depends on the context, really.
Say there are characters in America or England. In the anime, they might refer symbolically refer to breakfast with the Japanese version of "bacon and eggs". I'm not going to literally translate it as"miso soup and rice" unless the joke is that they miss their home cuisine. Bacon and eggs it is.

>va:hey let's have some beer!
>sub: hey let's have some alcohol!

Kinda works.

>having miso soup with rice instead of natto on toast

Awful

Localization, easily. I'm not even talking about japanese specific things that require a note to explain, but dialogues.

Japanese dialogues are usually terrible once translated. You have these stupid idioms that are very clearly japanese, all the time.
A competent translator makes dialogues flow better in the translated language, which can vastly improve a work by making the characters seem and talk more human.

tl;dr : official translations usually shit on fansubs

Why translate miko shrine maiden when they are called miko? You don't call a rabbi or imam a priest either.

Why is "you guys" so damn common in dubs? I don't watch dubs, but I get to hear them quite often. Never heard actual people use it as much as anime characters do.

I prefer a bit of both. Not going full 4Kids, but still making it easier to read than literal translation.

Localization

I just finished Shimoneta's English dub. Much better than the untranslatable jokes I saw when I watched it subbed when it was airing (before I dropped it).

>English dub of Japanese comedy
Makes as much sense as watching Monty Python dubbed in German.

Both are shit. Just learn moon.

Bit of both.

"You" is plural but translators don't seem to realize that.

This is the only valid reply.

Because there's retards that can't tell the difference between you (singular) and you (plural)based on context.

Fuck. Meant for

Strict translation, with one and only one exception. Please localize the fucking years. I don't want to have to pause and open up google to figure out when the fuck Showa 24 is. You are losing absolutely fucking nothing by translating that to 1950.

If it's set in Japan, and it involves the past it's almost always that you see such periods mentioned. Why do they never bother adding the Gregorian year in brackets is beyond me, though.
Perhaps not to ruin the immersion?

Strict translation with the exception being something that would get absolutely lost in translation. In that case something that conveys the same meaning should be put in.

Have you ever learned a foreign language?

Any teacher will tell than going only one way or another is the sign of a poor translation.

What you have to do when you translate is to stick to the original text until:
-strict translation makes the syntagma unintelligible
-strict translation makes the syntagma unusual according to the target language (syntax, register)

Only then can you try to "localise", more like try to make it more intelligible or more fitting for the target language provided you're as close to the original meaning as possible (context is also significant)
When that particular syntagma is translated "localised" you go back to strict translation.
This is all done to be as faithful as possible to the original text.

I would not translate "Shōwa 24" to "1950", maybe "the 24th year of Hirohito's reign."
I would not translate "8 thermidor II" to "July 26th 1794."


tl;dr strict translation until text is grammatically incorrect

Well put.

Enthusiast Localization. Strict Translation is usually a mistake, but a general market localization has obvious issues as well.

Localization as long as nothing plot important gets changed.

Pure translations sound awfully stiff in German and what passes for "Tomboy" in Japan would be still considered girly here so they have to spice up the dialogue to preserve the tropes.

This. Any liberal localisation makes anime/manga/LNs to lose part of what makes them interesting-that they are an expression of japanese culture (Or otaku culture, but you get the point).

When you're watching Pokemon and it calls riceballs donuts and you're like wth????

Except most competent translators can make more engaging and well written dialogues than a anime/manga/LN writer. At least in the translated language. Japanese sounds autistic when translated

That's called matching tone. It's good, but the problem is that commie has bastardized the idea so bad that people hear "Match tone and author intent" and then scream "No! Translate it literally!"

Most manga and all LN translations are atrocious, people who don't really know Japanese or English need to stop translating Japanese into English.

I don't want the translator's fanfiction. I want to read what the author wrote.
If I want to read fanfiction, I will go to a fanfiction site.

>I want to read what the author wrote.
If you have taste, you probably don't.
Japanese doesn't translate well to English or other languages. Dialogues don't feel natural anymore and instead become an awkward juxtaposition of japanese formulations.

If you ever compare Higurashi's strict translation to its more liberal French localization, you'll see that the latter is far better.

A good translator can match tone and cadence without murdering the original verbiage and culture. It's not easy though. Doing a simple 8 page SoL manga can take an hour to get right, and a regular episode of comedy anime is 3-5 hours. If I'm working in something with real meaty dialog, I've ended up spending 20 minutes on a single line.

If you can still see/hear the original then the most literal translation you have, down to the last keikaku. Otherwise just make it sound good.

Localization.
If you wanna be strict, don't use subs/dubs.

Utawarerumono is the VN with the cringiest translation ever made.
Translations are made for people that doesn't know the language. Stop this "but we are a niche" crap and fucking localize!
Learn fucking japanese if you wanna be literal.

Fuck off.

Somewhere in the middle, leaning more towards literal is best but its obviously very difficult to get right. A lot of phrases in Japanese don't really make sense in English at all and it depends on context.

For example "itadakimasu" literally means something like "(I) gratefully receive". No one would say that in English so you have to localise it a little bit, and this depends on tone and context. Say a genki character says "Itadakimasu!" in a cheery voice, that probably makes more sense as "Let's eat!", but a more subdued obligatory "itadakimasu" might be better translated as "thanks for the food".

You can't take too many liberties though, otherwise you end up changing the meaning so its sometimes better to use a slightly awkward phrasing that preserves the meaning.

Honorifics should be left as they are though, since that is almost impossible to convey in English and most people can tell from context what they mean.

The original Japanese version is full of Ainu loanwords. It has a glossary for a reason.

I liked learning shit from old subs.
learned about the concept of Tsukomme from Azumanga Daioh and I honestly cant think of where anywhere else I would have but it's a concept that comes up in comedy anime a lot.

learn japanese, noob

Well, that's an exemple of a poor translation.

>Strict Translation is usually a mistake
It's quite the opposite.

Not only does it allow the expression of Japanese culture, it's also what the author had in mind.

>Except most competent translators can make more engaging and well written dialogues
I might sound stiff here but that is besides the point.
You're not meant to "make the text more engaging" or "write it better". You're supposed to translate the text into a target language while being as faithful as possible to the original text.
If it happens that the original author lacks writing skills then so be it.

>
>A good translator can match tone and cadence without murdering the original verbiage and culture.
>It's not easy though.
Exactly.

This is how you get translator writing anything they want (or need).

>If it happens that the original author lacks writing skills then so be it.
It's not only the original author but also the original language's fault. Japanese doesn't work well in English. Japanese expressions like "it can't be helped" should not be all translated to "it can't be helped" because the chances of everyone using that particular line in English are extremely slim. Change it.

I love Utawarerumono: futari no hakuoro.Haku really manned the fuck up and turned into best mc.

II heard this is getting a PS4/Vita port of the final chapter.
Can someone tell me in which order i should play the games/watch the anime and if the console ports are that much different from the pc originals?
I'm asking cause i don't really like reading VNs on pc.

Strict for subs, localisation for dubs
Everybody wins

As a translator myself I can't agree more. Going as strictly as the natures of the differences of the languages allow is what makes a good translation. While attaining that is a different story, I feel that it's technically not impossible.

Yes and no, there are specifics so you end up using the specific name of the supernatural creature when you mean it but it ranges from ghosts to demons so you should not translate it as "demon" because you can be sure its going to bite you in the ass when the author decides to use something that is not a demon.

>It's not only the original author but also the original language's fault.
That's another issue that I addressed here >Japanese expressions like "it can't be helped" should not be -all- translated to "it can't be helped" ...

"All" is the keyword.
Context, register and the intent of the author will determine the right syntagma to use.
"It can't be helped", "that's how it is" etc

> ...because the chances of everyone using that particular line in English are extremely slim.
If you're referring to that particular phrase not being often used in English then that's not quite relevant.
If the issue is a posh business man saying the same thing as street thug then once more, context and register.

I want a brutally literal interpretation that maintains word order and sounds awkward as hell if you say it out loud but follows what is actually being said in Japanese in tone and tempo, with any localization being done in TL notes that do not intrude on the art and aren't more than a few words, Also regular Japanese closed captions and colorful pretty font karaoke going through the lines in kana as extra sub tracks.

Localized Dub

That would be terrible to read

I have no idea if you're joking or not.

I think I'm going to try translating a small clip of something like that as a joke. It's going to be completely unintelligible, though.

Please do.

Someone subbed EoE like that. It's hilariously awkward. It was somewhere on evageeks, but I can't find it any more.

Strict translation is always preferable over something "localized" to a country not my own.

I just want translation with sense... that is closer with its translation to the original work. Putting memes in game when in original there are none is garbage...

The only good localisation is to bogan English. Prove me wrong. You can't.

I love when character speak with accent and translator used some retarded english accent so I don't understand what character say at all because my Japanese isn't that good and english subs are in gibberish.

any fukin translayshun that isnae in me own accent is a loada fuckin shite

More porn dialog should be translated into an accent.

>last one isn't "rub-a-dub-dub thanks for the grub"
You fucked up

I would imagine since it's dubs they're trying to match the mouth flaps of minna which is the plural form of You. You guys matches better then a You with a second empty mouth flap. I would recommend watching subs over dubs though. Just my personal preference.

I'm am not fluent in Japanese but I want to be. Currently watching Yakitate!! Japan and I'm eating up the translation notes as they come. Not everyone will have that same enjoyment of learning something with their entertainment and I can understand why people would rather have notes at the end or not at all. That said I learn a lot more by studying then I ever do from watching anime. It's good listening practice but it's elementary language being used so once I get out of the beginner level I'll have to find something more complex to listen to.

Of course I fuck up my native language explaining how I want to be fluent in another. Sorry about that.

Strict translation because English is not my "local" language. Heck I understand Japanese more than "localized" English.

Surely I'm not the only ESL out there that learned English through translated LNs, right?

>hotter than a shearer's armpit

try localize word play and puns since they rarely work, but keep shit like foods and alcohol and nip customs as the original

>learned English through translated LNs
Normal books yes but LN are so fucked you're better off learning from twitch chat.

In Utawarerumono's sequels, there are literally false masks in the context though.

Samurai exists in English as a loanword due to past waves of Japanophilia, bushin does not.

Is it even debatable? It looks like common sense to me that any translation should stay faithful to the original thing.

I really don't understand americucks and this localization stuff. If I didn't want to deal with a little foreign culture here and there, why would I bother reading/watching stuff from other countries to begin with?

SLAPPY FACE

>*cucks
Stop.
I agree with you, though. The Americans pride themselves so much on being "progressive" and being a melting pot of friendship - yet they don't quite allow foreign culture in, unless it's bastardized in some form.

>yet they don't quite allow foreign culture in, unless it's bastardized in some form

That's the whole idea of the melting pot meme. Constituent cultures are melted down and diluted into the overarching culture.

...

Man, this post is awful and it seems using pointless linguistic jargon worked in getting people to agree with you. Proper translations always carry the compromise of providing readable English while retaining its original meaning, and it's nearly impossible to translate in a one-to-one fashion. Effect is much more valued than meaning in a translation in this case, and for many people, readable English is valued much more than a stiff, literal mess that pretends to capture the original meaning.

If one is adamant on having a work retaining the same meaning, they learn Japanese. Don't pretend like literal translations are ever good.

>Don't pretend like literal translations are ever good
>Don't pretend like translations are ever good
There you go.

I assumed they meant not making over-localizations that would stray too far from the original meaning, like not translating "Shōwa 24" to "1950". Anybody who translates and proofreads will tell you that the languages are too different and literal translations only result in awkward lines that reek of ESL.

They really aren't. Learn japanese.

If your definition of a good translation is "Does it carry the same meaning as the original?", then yes, there is no such thing as a good translation. But if it's "Does it convey the same effect and overall essence, while being in readable English?", then there's plenty good translations.

>readable English
You're overestimate English as language, try translating something to language with real grammar and not loose set of rulers, you will see what stiff literal mess, awkward dialog or unreadable garbage really mean.

t. ESL learner

Thanks for proving my point.

>Does it convey the same effect and overall essence
Characterization wise, this is impossible. You'll find things that attempt to recreate the same effect, but it's nowhere near the same. Those things simply don't exist in the English language.
Same with the author's personal writing style.

>Most manga and all LN translations are atrocious
For real. I tried reading the translations for the KonoSuba LNs someone posted here a few weeks ago. They are super awkward and show essentially no editorial pass to improve readibility. I stopped after a chapter or two.

For comparison, I read the first chapter as a sample over at the B&N website, and holy shit. Legit translations made it so much more enjoyable a read. I've been around long enough to know that there are exceptions even in official translations, but generally things these days are pretty solid, and all that really remains to criticize are nitpicks by the more hardcore fans of a property.

That said... there is SO much manga and LN material that would never be in English if it weren't for fan translators, so you gotta take the good with the bad if you want to read something that wouldn't market well in Anglosphere. I mean, I finally finished reading Touch, one of the biggest titles of the 1980s, the other day, something I've been wanting to do for well over a decade, all thanks to fan translators. I'll take rough translations from a couple of different groups tackling one series over time over never getting a chance to enjoy that series ever.

Conveying the author's writing style in a translation is impossible, sure, but characterization can be retained just fine. Certain dialect and slang are certainly harder to capture right for instance, but they can still be emulated enough so the reader understands the distinction (including context and/or emphasis of using such patterns) I think you're limiting your scope to just shitty LN or VN translations if you think like that. Actually read and compare translations of some more renowned novels (Murakami is a popular example), and there's an intricate amount of thought that goes into each one.

You can't recreate a character's speech patterns into English, it simply doesn't exist in the English language. Someone who reads translations will never understand the gap moe that can exist between speech and appearance, appreciate the different patterns between multiple character, or enjoy a specific one in particular. It's not just slang words and dialect. All the characterization that exists there is mostly gone once translated. You might be able to notice a difference, but you won't actually be able to enjoy what makes it different.
I'm only talking about any anime-manga related material, actual novels are something else and I've never read them anyway.