Wait, if Gilgamesh can beat most other servants just by spamming swords at them, and UBW sword spam overpowered that, then why does Shirou say that he can't defeat other servants with it?
What help does taking one weapon to it's fullest extent do for you when you're demonstrably unable to counter getting a fuckton of noble phantasms thrown at your face?
Because it's a rock paper scissors situation.
So what you're asking is, why doesn't Archer use UBW in every single fight?
It's because Gil has a specific weapon that's super effective against each servant he comes across. Shirou doesn't have a legend that points out any specific weakness, so Gil has no hard counter against him. He either spams random shit at him, hoping for the best, or he swallows his pride and demolishes Shirou with Ea. Gate of Babylon and UBW wouldn't be very good against a servant like Lancelot Berserker, for example. Cu Culain, Hercules and Iskander all fought through GoB, but were ultimately defeated because of the Enkidu chain. Sword spam isn't as reliable as people think.
You don't get it.
Shirou can defeat gilgamesh because spawning a copy of a phantasm already in his hand is faster than pulling it out.
Gilgamesh is still stronger.
Tell me about Type-Moon
Why didn't it release a single VN since 2012?
UBW sword spam( which is a spam only because GoB is happening) , can counter 1:1 GoB. But Gilgamesh never masters any of his weapons from GoB. And a hero who mastered his weapon, can beat UBW, which would create a copy of the heroes weapon, because He has mastered the weapon, and shrou has not.
So Gilgamesh can beat other servants without mastering anything, yet Shirou somehow can't, but Shirou still beats him without ea?
The other anons got it all wrong.
The main and real reason is that most of the servants are physically way over Shirou, so they could kill him before he could rain on them properly. In comparison, Gil isn't really mobile and probably not one of the fittest of heroes.
The other factor is that Shirou still needs to see the other types of weapons to use them for specific servants while Gil has them on already. For instance, Shirou would need to see 12 different A+ weapons to be able to kill Heracles, while Gil already has all kinds of A+ on his arsenal, not to mention ones specialized for Heracles already like Enkidu.
'Dat Mobage money won out.
If I remove that mobage, will it die?
>Main character plainly explains exactly why he will win.
>You still don't understand.
Do you even pay attention?
Gil fights a servant: Pulls out the exact weapon that can beat them, regardless of their strength.
Gil fights Shirou: Has no certain weakness, requires spamming.
Shirou fights Gil: Duplicates each of the weapons he spams, nullifying them.
Shirou fights Servant: Doesn't have endless image of weapons being spammed in front of him to copy, needs to rely on what he has and his own strength, which almost all servants can easily beat.
For over 10 fucking years I have to see this fucking thread.
Over.
And Over.
And Over.
I'm tired.
>The main and real reason is that most of the servants are physically way over Shirou, so they could kill him before he could rain on them properly. In comparison, Gil isn't really mobile and probably not one of the fittest of heroes.
What? You're wrong. Shirou's physical abilities also gets the physical abilities of the wielder once he traces their weapons. Why do you think Shirou could jump 10 feet high all over the place and run like Sonic? Also, Gil IS fit as fuck and can move fast too, he just doesn't because there's no point when he can just swordspam from a distance.
>For instance, Shirou would need to see 12 different A+ weapons to be able to kill Heracles
Did you forget when Shirou traced Caliburn and killed Heracles 7 times?
Shirou can't spam swords like that, but he can copy. He overpowered Gilgamesh because everytime he tried to "pull out" a new sword from his GoB Shirou already had a traced and ready-to-use copy to throw at him thanks to the battle happening inside his UBW, where tracing is instant.
Against any other servant Shirou would have either copied a single one sword (and die being a non-master of it) or tried its own (and die because he's not that powerful on his own).
Had Gilgamesh swallowed his pride and pulled the only weapon Shirou couldn't have traced (Ea) he would have defeated him easily.
Makes you wonder if they're the same people who cpmplain about characters explaining everything in explicit detail during a fight.
Because Nasu pulls shit from his anus for Shirou to win
>What? You're wrong. Shirou's physical abilities also gets the physical abilities of the wielder once he traces their weapons
I'm pretty sure Shiro can only copy the skillsets and abilities inherent to the sword. That jumping 10 meters thing was anime-only.
>Gilgamesh is a master strategist who has a NP that can counter any other Serv-
It's literally spam Gilcucks. Put him up against an anti-Spam skill like UBW or KoO and Gil's fucked.
Didn't that only work cause he was doing it with Saber?
Besides that, my point being that Shirou still needs to see the particular weapons that will help him beat the servant. Fate!Shirou could do that since he saw Saber's Caliburn, but what about the other route Shirous who didn't see it?
>Doesn't have endless image of weapons being spammed in front of him to copy
He can still spam the same weapon, Archer himself was able to spam multiple of Kansho and Bakuya. The issue is that he doesn't necessarily have the right weapon to counter the servant in question.
Then how do you explain Shirou being able to wield Heracles' Axe-sword easily with one hand in HF? Don't even say it's because he's using Redman's arm. Even if he has Redman's arm, he still need a lot of strength to carry it.
>Then how do you explain Shirou being able to wield Heracles' Axe-sword easily with one hand in HF?
Archer's arm. You know, the servant with superhuman strenght.
I don't remember where but it was stated in the VN that by copying a sword Shirou inherits the owner's skills in using it.
So if he copies Kanshou+Bakuya he becomes a master dual wielder etc. etc. knowing all the moves, but his body doesn't change.
It's the very reason why the Shirou vs Archer duel had to happen with Archer on the verge of dying with his Servant-tier strenght severely gimped by Gil.
I see. My bad.
Kill yourself
This is not me by the way
Wow, that's so edgy.
The only thing Gil needed to even bother to do was just fire a shield or a chalice or something in Shirou's general direction. Since it wouldn't be a 'weapon', Shirou would be caught off guard (and potentially be struck), his copying rate of actual weapons would slightly dip, and he'd be skewered in a millisecond.
The only 'right' answer to the question of why Shirou was able to beat Gilgamesh is: "lol plot". Everybody knows this; the arguments over internal logic are spurious and based in the ideal of "let's handwave the actual victory, and only argue about the concept of matching weapons colliding".
Why didn't Shirou trace a gun and shoot Gil?
His origin is a sword for a reason.
Shirou can beat Gilgamesh because Gilgamesh is a canon idiot whose head is so far up his own ass that he'd rather get killed than admit he can taste his tonsils.
Why didn't they just shoot Shirou?
Gil has all the weakpoints of heroes in his vault. Shirou has a much more limited selection.
Shirou would need to see the entire Gate of Babylon, which reportedly takes a solid week of constant firing (VS Enkidu) to deplete. Their fight didn't even show 1% of it.
Isn't it simply Shirou is faster but Gil is stronger? Allowing him to cancel out Gil's shit about but not powerful enough to actually damage anyone worth their salt?
If Shirou fought against Caster Gilgamesh, Shirou would get his ass handed to him.
just accept the fact that the show is dogshit
stop trying to justify the im not overpowered but i actually am trope
Did Gil know that Ea is untraceable? Would explain why he was scared to bring it out if he wasn't sure.
He didn't break it out cause he didn't take it seriously, but that's a interesting spin to it.
isn't the reason he didn't take it out because that would be admitting that shirou is challenging? and he couldn't stomach hurting his pride like that
Shirou can produce copies and attack faster than Gil can pull them out of his gate, because they are fighting inside of Shirou's Reality Marble. Outside, Gil was wrecking his shit, inside, Shirou is the one on the offensive, while Gil has to defend. How can Shirou break the originals with copies? It's because he is getting in full power blows while Gil is still struggling to get the weapons out in time.
Shirou also has no divinity, so the Enkidu chain is less effective on him (it binds more strongly the closer the target is to a god, which is why Lancer and Heracles both lost due to it). Notice how he didn't even try to employ the chain during the UBW battle and went straight to pulling out Ea even though he was ashamed to do so? Because Enkidu is for restraining gods and demigods, there was no guarantee Shirou wouldn't break it, especially since UBW is his own world. Gil had to destroy UBW in order to defeat Shirou; if he had taken out Ea immediately and broken the Reality Marble with it, he would have won, but his pride wouldn't allow such a thing.
The 'why' of why Gilgamesh didn't pull out Enkidu is a little different from that. There is no possible reality in which Shirou copies/touches Enkidu and also survives the fight. Consequently, Gilgamesh does not pull out Enkidu.
Similar logic explains why Gil isn't wearing his armor.
I disagree. UBW obviously empowers Shirou to servant levels when he is inside of it. No matter how weak Gil is compared to other servants, how the fuck is Shirou going to outspeed and overpower him? Even Archer with nearly all of his power exhausted is stronger than Shirou. Enkidu has no power over mortals, it's just an ordinary metal chain; Shirou might have been able to break it, and there's no way Gil could tolerate that. Not to mention having to immobilize a weak mortal to win would be a serious blow to his pride anyway.
The armor is a valid point. There's literally no reason why he'd wear it in Fate and not in UBW other than the fact they needed Shirou to win.
Gilgamesh only equips his armor in Fate when Saber engages him. He was quite happy to romp around in a pimp coat before then.
It comes down to mana, mostly. Servants have insane amounts of it and Bone of My Sword doesn't. Rin was complaining about how much of it he was using against Gil.
He's wearing it when he goes to murder Caster, despite knowing that she poses no threat to him.
I meant that Gil would lose his shit and nuke the earth if Shirou tried to copy Enkidu.
Gilgamesh is anti-servant but Shirou's none.
His main battle plan is spamming swords but Shirou's gimmick is copying swords.
GoB is slower than UBW.
Tell me about Nasu. How is he able to milk the same franchise for eons?
>knowing that she poses no threat to him
Couldn't Kuzuki, in theory, just come close, rip his head off and throw it into a wall? Like he deed with Saber.
Couldn't Caster, in theory, just catch Gil in her paralyzing force field thing? Like she deed with Saber.
No.
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would can a trilogy after releasing the first game
>no weakness
He could just use any sort of energy projectile that requires equivalent force instead of just throwing swords.
Why didn't he just trace a gunsword?
Shirou only won against Gil because Gil is an arrogant cunt. That's the main reason.
For the greatest champion/king/warrior on the planet to have to admit that he needed to go all out against a terrible mage who can only use one type of magic is an insult worse than death. Gill's whole existence is based on his belief that there is no-one who is his equal, it simply isn't in his nature to be humbled.
>Kissanime
Kill yourself stream cancer.
OP do not listen to any retard in this thread, they are going to tell you autistic reasons why fate is a 10/10 VN without a single bad moment or 1 line of shit writting, never argue anything with the fate fanbase.
Wasn't Gilgamesh's demise to UBW mostly because of his cocky nature and taking Shirou lightly?
He probably grew slightly cautious when he saw him rushing but i think by that time it was too late. His biggest flaw is being too prideful and arrogant.
>KoO and Gil's fucked.
He was shooting out 2 or 3 per second. As soon GoB opens up the spam Zerkalot would be a smear on the wall. UBW worked by shooting a lesser version at each gate which was enough to negate both.
It's rock-paper-scissors, Shirou beat Gilgamesh because UBW is a hard counter to Gate of Babylon and Gil was too vain to try and use Ea until it was too late.
Because he's still a human. Any good servant could walk up to him and fuck his shit.
ARCHER on the other hand. Well you'll notice how everyone spends most of the VN going "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU WHY ARE YOU SO GOOD AT THIS?"
Also because thematically Shrou needed to defeat the greatest hero that constantly cast doubt on him as a mark that he is a hero.
Gil only takes out Ea on opponents that he deems worthy enough, i.e. Iskandar in F/Z
Shirou was just a lowly human whom Gil didn't deem worthy of being killed by Ea until it turned out that UBW completely nullified his GoB spam (and since Shirou is a human than he couldn't just go "Enkidu gg lol"), and by then he had already lost. It wasn't even really Shirou who killed him, it was his own overwhelming pride.
Anyone else cringe when he started saying I am the bone of my in English
No because I'm not a normalfag like you.
Enkidu wouldn't work on Shirou because he has no divinity
My problem with this logic is that Gil has tons of things in GoB which aren't weapons. If he bothered to shoot even one of them at Shirou, it'd be kind of hard to stop. I mean, he could shoot *Vimana* at Shirou if he wanted to, yet he doesn't.
Because the Fate series is crystallized autism
His spaceship was destroyed you goof.
You could probably just chalk it up to Gil's pride and him not thinking that he would actually lose.
Shirou only won due to overwhelming circumstances in his favor, in pretty much any other situation he would've died instantly, and if Gil had pulled out Ea at the beginning of the fight it would've been GG
Gil absolutely loses his shit when someone just mimics Enkidu's figure in SF. And he's in a constantly happy mood in that series. If he was already being poked at by Shirou, and Shirou copied Enkidu's *power*, Gil would genesis the fuck out of the planet.
That's not what EA does.
That would mean admitting he is inferior to Shirou's tracing. Is it really that hard to comprehend?
Gilgamesh's ego told him he should be able to beat down Shirou at his own game, and Gilgamesh's ego prevented him from changing tactics when that failed before his eyes.
>Type: Anti-World
hm
It's Ea, and that's exactly what it does.
World =/= Planet
>if Gilgamesh can beat most other servants just by spamming swords at them
That's not what it happens, you fucking faggot. Literally name one Servant Gilgamesh beat by just raining swords.
No, it does the same thing as Slash Emperor. "shows the world as it really is"
It re-imposes Gaia's "reality marble" back over whatever is there.
Assassin, archer, saber
Medea
Caster, [kinda] Iskandar, the other three in the other guy's post
He beat Gilgamesh because of plot armor. Without that, he's just garbage as EMIYA is now in works outside FSN.
He Ea'ed Iskandar before he resorted to sword rain and still couldn't kill him until he chained him and rammed him with Ea himself.
>anime only pleb
That was probably the biggest fuckup of a scene they did. Gil should have been far more animated during that fight, and Iskandar should have looked a lot more fearsome, when Bucephalus died he shouldn't have even been slowed down.
The anime made it look like he knew he was going to lose and was just doing a suicide charge rather than he genuinely thought he'd win.
You're a big guy.
>you'll never be Marisbilly Animusphere and summon the best Servant to be filthy rich
Fuck you, Nasu.
>VN
VN were literally trash tier format to try to sell Nasu's works which became outdated, so they are resorting to newer trash mediums like mobage and musou for this. They didn't released VN out any artistic integrity, but because the cheap porn would hook up some neckbeards.
Not all Servants have a weakness he can exploit though.
WHY DIDN'T
Do not dare to imply.
I don't disagree with your view of the fact that Iskandar thought that he would win, but he most certainly was ruined by GoB.
>unstopped though skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms
You also have to remember that not only does GoB have a lot of things that UBW cannot reproduce, as GoB, unlike UNW isn't limited to close combat armament. There is also the fact that reality marbles cost a shitton of energy compared to the ridiculously efficient GoB. UBW is shittier in every way except for the speed, and Archer, Shirou's strongest form, is best when he's sniping people with Hrunting or Caladbolg.
Gil's GoB is good because lol everything humanity wisdom made/copyright on being a hero, clairvoyance that lets him know what spells you're casting, what you're weak to so he can pull out whatever fucks you over, and because he can keep it up all day.
Gil only loses because he's an arrogant twat in F/SN. Even with Archer secretly saving Shirou's ass with Rho Aius, and Rin helping him so his shitty ass can actually fuel UBW, Gilgamesh was the one who cucked himself out of victory. If Gil wore his armor, had a moment to think, or used stuff that Shirou can't project... or pretty much did anything else he would have won.
>clairvoyance that lets him know what spells you're casting,
This is not how his clairvoyance works. He used it in Babylon, so we know. It's only future sight and only if he really really focuses.
They got the bit about his sword being just about to cut gil's face open right though, he was that close until Enkidu and then more skewering, but the text made it clear Gil was fighting in a very different way to his indifferent self, and that Iskandar had genuinely given him a run for his money.
He wasn't as dangerous as Heracles but lets be honest, he's fucking Heracles. The only person who should really be clearly ahead of him in the nasuverse is Galahad.
Why are people so obsessed with undermining just how fucking dangerous Archer actually is? he made Artoria and Cu both go "wtf is this"
There is no condition for Gil to beat EMIYA it just doesn't happen. Shirou yes because he's just a regular human, but Shriou won and it was an important thematic moment to have, without it the story would have been incomplete.
Mahoyo was nice, please no bully
As I see it, they simply spent all of their budget on Ionian Hetairoi. That's why the charge had so little animation, and why there was so little of the Berserker fight shown.
>I cannot forgive that king's sins. I cannot ignore that king's cruelty.
>How much sorrows have I seen? Yet that demon does nothing. He only looks at me with a cold smile only on his face.
>Thus, I leave these words, in the hopes that they shall pass down by someone in the future.
>No matter what time, no matter what country, humanity is full of tragedies.
>Those who kill their sons and daughters. Those are killed by their sons and daughters.
>Those who do not know love. And those are rejected by love.
>Those who sigh at betrayal, and those who live for betrayal.
>Those who do not know what is a family, and those who abandon their family.
>Those who lose wealth and those who are harmed by their possessions.
>Those who do not know what is love and those who laugh at love.
>Those who pointlessly pursue success and those who hate their success.
>Those who defend a faith, and those who hate it.
>Those who love their kind and hate others, those who learn knowledge and spread ignorance. Those who hate for no reason and are prone to suspicion. Those who like to treat others unfairly, who love to persecute others, and who are merciless.
>How ugly, how sad are these creatures? Yet as a regular man, this is fine.
>Humanity is not omnipotent. All humans can do is to live as a contradiction, and live on bearing all the pain.
>Yet, if there was an omnipotent king, things must be judged differently. He has the power to solve these problems, and he knows how. He has the eyes that could see into the past and the future, and he knows already all the sorrows and pains of the world. That were, are and would be.
>Yet the king did nothing. The king just smiled.
>If the king was ignorant, perhaps that would be fine, but the king knows everything and he still keeps on smiling.
>I cried out: "Do you have no feelings? You know everything, do you not want to correct these tragedies?"
>The king answered me: "No, not at all. The thought never occurred to me."
>I will not forgive this man. Everyone who was there thought the same way. I now write down my anger, and I leave this path so that those that come after me can follow.
>Rebuild the temple.
>Find the path of light.
>If we are to destroy everything, we must use all the resources at our disposal. If we are to forget, we must wager all of our time.
>Go and explore the path which leads to the final singularity. The King of Magic has his throne there.
>That eternal space is called Solomon, the ultimate destination. It is an altar that floats in the maelstrom of time outside of all things, and the land of hope for those that seek the way to the genesis.
Who was in the wrong?
>It's only future sight and only if he really really focuses.
Incorrect
>using fanfiction over something Nasu wrote
Nasu retconned that shit, you realize. He can only see the future. Unlike Solomon who has a "perfect form of omniscience". Of course a fanfiction writer like Narita who is also a Gilfag didn't know what the fuck he could do when he wrote that.