Finally got around to watching all of Full Metal Alchemist and Brotherhood...

Finally got around to watching all of Full Metal Alchemist and Brotherhood. Brotherhood was the better version to me but the original was still good. The original's ending however was shit. I hated it. And yes I saw the movie that was supposed to be the actual ending and it was still shit. Tell me why those of you who prefer the original prefer it. I found brotherhood a lot more entertaining and interesting.

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I'm with you on Brotherhood being better.

I also just finished Brotherhood for the first time the other day. It was amazing, 10/10 out of me. Nothing felt wasted, meandered, or pointless. The drama scenes were done tastefully, the plot twists felt realistic. Arakawa's own pen was not outdone in any way by the 2003 version. I was a huge, huge fan of it back in early 2004 as well, so I don't say that lightly.

OP here

>Brothergood had better Wrath (I fucking hated original's wrath he was an annoying little shit but so was Selem being pride so I just think Bredley is the better character than either of them)
>Original had better Sloth
>Original had more interesting Lust
>Brotherhood had better Greed with the whole prince thing
>Brotherhood had a more interesting Envy but original's envy being Hoenheims son was pretty cool still I liked brotherhood's envy more
>Brotherhood had the better main bad guy. Didn't really care for Dantae
>Brotherhood had the better ending although I didn't like either desu
>I liked the Xiang stuff in Brotherhood
>Brotherhood had the better scar imo but I still liked him in the original
>Gluttony was an idiot in both so that doesn't matter
>Brotherhood had the better Hoenhiem
>Brotherhood had better Pinacho
>Brotherhood had better Winry
>Brotherhood had Olivier who was awesome
>I liked the whole fort briggs thing so good for brotherhood
>Original with Shao tucker and nina was... weird. I liked it being open and closed more in brotherhood instead of dragging that on. Should have kept Shao dead.
>Original had better origin for the humonculie.
>I liked "father" becoming a god more and that was the point of him doing what he did more than Dantae's reasons
>Ed giving up alchemy is better than him going to another world that shit was dumb
>HATE that in the original Ed and Winry go fucking nowhere. Didn't like how Brotherhood did it either but at least there was something there.

>original's envy being Hoenheims son was pretty cool

I thought it was completely fucking retarded

really? I just thought it explained why he hates him so much. And I liked that they came from failed human transmutations more than them just being emotions from Father I did however like father more than Dantae so that's weird.

i agree with you mostly, only

>brotherhood had a better scar

i appreciated the more angst-y scar of the first, but the scene with winry and scar in brotherhood was pitch perfect 10/10 would have feels for both of them again

>original with shou tucker was... weird

i preferred how the original handled it, it had so much more weight than brotherhood. to me, it gave heftier weight to the consequences of human transmutation (in all of it's forms)

>didn't like ed/winry ending in brotherhood

out of curiousity, what would you have done differently?

2003 is one the best animated show I've ever watched whle Brotherhood is merely great.

The production values of 2003 are much better, as are how several of the major plot points are handled.

God tier OST too.

Yeah that scene was great

but to answer your question about Ed and Winry idek I just found that scene on the train station so fucking awkward and anticlimactic. "well... bye!" yep. See ya bud. The whole lol ed is a scientist and uses scientific words to describe his feelings xDDD and winry saying no i'll give 100% uh no like 70? 80? was kind of cringy to me. I'd love them to actually have gotten married and shown being together instead of them saying they will. But that's not even the big thing. Fucking Mustang and Hawkeye! Nothing happened in either original nor brotherhood! What the fuck was with that shit?

And original's anime ending AND movie ending was the worst Ed and Winry. Both times she's just like well he's gone and I may never see him again. OH well.

what plot lines were better in original?

Brotherhood is more "fun", it has better animation, a more coherent plot and has more comedic moments. But it really lacks in cinematography, being very basic when it portaits an scene without any subtlety. And really not adding anything to the source material aside from animation.
I also find its portray of war really simplistic, being reduce to "killing is bad", while 2003 shows war in a more realistic way. Brotherhood also fucked up the feeling of journey that both 2003 and the manga portait very well, in Brotherhood you just jump from one plot related place to another.
Also, I think all the deaths in Brotherhood lacked impactf, by not spending time with certain characters with sudden deaths (Nina, Hughes) or killing characters wich death you see coming a mile away (Greed, Hoenhiem, that chinese old man), honestly -while not a death -the moment shocked me the most was Lan Fan cutting her own arm. 2003 stablished better Nina and Hughes and expanded their relationship with the Eldrics, making their deaths more meaningful than even the manga itself.
I will I don't deny that Brotherhood (and by extension the manga) have some good parts but they felt too simplistic and idealistic most of the time, making it just a shonen with a goverment conspiracy. While 2003 has some issues. it tried to do a more compelling story that makes its audience question their moral and beliefs. Lastly, I really disliked Mei Chang, she was an annoying brat.

Literally all of them before it went to make its own story.

my nig nog

youtube.com/watch?v=uwzAEwzUI8k

original handled winry and ed terribly at the end. The anime ending and the movie ending. Both were "oh i'll never see Ed again? Oh well." Like she didn't even care. But I like romance in my anime's so that might just be me being a sissy with a soft spot for love.

Winry and Ed weren't really a thing in 2003. But yes, their reunion in The Conqueror of Shambala was rushed and silly. The whole movie was rushed because the animation team literally were planing a longer movie or even more than one movie but production said "nope". No wonder it turned out so shitty. I don't think it would have been that good even then but it wouldn't have been so awful.

More like Fullmetal Alchemist: Boringhood

>I also find its portray of war really simplistic, being reduce to "killing is bad", while 2003 shows war in a more realistic way.

Brotherhood's war came due to a neighboring nation promising autonomy to Ishvaal if they rebelled against Amestris then reneging when the state alchemists showed that they shouldn't be fucked with giving a good reason for the war (nationalism and external pressure) all while showing the reason why Amestris gave so much power to Father.

03's war was because "our religion hates alchemy!" as well as Amestris just killing churchheads to incite it for their rituals

I don't think 03's war all that realistic

I WAY prefer the original anime because it tells a more deeper, more character-driven story. Also the conflicts are much more real and personal. I even like the ending, minus the movie. It's much more bittersweet and ties together the themes of sacrifice. That said the movie also makes the racism allegories much more clear. Like yeah, Amestris is the fictional equivalent of Nazi Germany.

The manga is just shounen garbage with cookie cutter characters and poorly explored themes. If you like shounen garbage, then you will also like Brotherhood.

Are you kidding me? Ed and Winry were definitely a thing in both 2003 and brotherhood. They were heavily hinted at and implied that there was something between the 2. They clearly cared for each other.

it was more exciting than the original actually.

Ah... that moment when Alphonse gives his brother a hand against Fatha~

It truly has the better ending and overall closure for all the characters involved.

killing people for religious reasons sounds pretty realistic to me...

>killing people because of religious beliefs isn' realistic
Yeah, because we never ever have done that.
It also was something set up by Dante, there wasn't a real Ishvalian rebellion at the end

They hinted both Ed and Al but none of them made a move.

It depends on if you find character/emotion more exciting (original) or battle shounen more exciting (brotherhood).

Honestly the only thing bad about Brotherhood is how they rushed a lot of the stuff that was already covered in the 2003 version. Otherwise Brotherhood is fucking better because 2003 is lolbones tier after the plot split.

I hated that Ed went to the other world and Al just forgets everything that happened for the past 4 years. Ed losing Alchemy was a lot better.

And you know I never caught that comparison to Nazi Germany until now but it's so clear now that I think of it. Seeing it differently now.

Dante using everyone else as a tool for a selfish gain that's as retarded as fucking immortality is a hundred times better than 'villain who wants to attain godhood #3209874

yeah Brotherhood definitely had the better ending. I felt a lot more satisfied with it.

>And you know I never caught that comparison to Nazi Germany until now but it's so clear now that I think of it.
nigga how

There's a OVA of the 2003 version that takes place after the film: Apparently, Ed never leaves our world and stays there well over his senior years, living in some apartment in Japan. His adventures are famous and now there are films about it. It's also implied that he married the Winry of our world, because one of his grandchildren looks like her.

I actually had more feels moments during brotherhood. Both had their moments but I had more emotions during brotherhood.

holy shit fuck you for making me remember that existed

2003 had a more tied together narrative, where the usage of alchemy and the plot arcs of the characters being focused around sacrifice and shit like "oh I did all this and got nothing out of it wew equivalent exchange rite Ed?"

the origin behind the homunculi in 2003 was better than brotherhood's "just a piece of Dark Hoenheim"

Because of who?
inb4 Greed

wat

>liking over-the-top shitty overreaction humor
2003 > Brotherhood. The fucking awful humor in Brotherhood (and the manga) ruined it for me. You don't need to have fucking gags every couple of seconds.

Also, Nakamura is a better animator than Kameda.

that's why they rushed past that stuff though. They assumed if you're watching brtherhood you've already seen the original. Which is stupid yes but that's their rational I guess.

Oh like how if you never watched the original you have no idea who the butcher serial killer is or that weird wormy guy in charge of that mining town who hates Ed but was never explained why he hates him in brotherhood. The mining town is only in the original and the human butcher serial killer too.

>the origin behind the homunculi in 2003 was better than brotherhood's "just a piece of Dark Hoenheim"
Except not really, there should've been WAY more homunculi if that's how they're really created.

>this thread again

>calls the manga shounen garbage
>doesn't explain why

I don't even know what you are talking about character-wise besides Ed, Scar, Lust and maybe Rose they pretty much left everyone else in the background. Brotherhood actually dives into not just the characters main cast or no they make Al have a larger role and even go as far as to develop the state of Amestris itself.

The Nazi allegory is handled better in Brotherhood since you have a nation in crisis flocking to a "father" figure who promise grandiose plans to not only get them out but also dominate everyone.

Because Brotherhood was literally made to milk FMA popularity with the manga about to conclude. I would respect Brotherhood if they took a few more years, and a better director, to make the series.

yeah I usually miss deeper stuff lol definitely a surface only guy when I watch stuff. Metaphors and stuff go right over my head until i'm told about them then realize how much sense it makes.

I hated that OVA. The writers pretty much destroyed all the ambiguity of Shamballa's ending with that shit. The movie left some room for Ed and Al to maybe find a way to return home. But nope, Ed is over 100 years old, along with Al, has given up on even trying to go back, and married alternative Winry, because fuck you, fans.

dark hoenheim created the homunculus in the first place because to him, he first needs to get rid of his cardinal sins before he gets god status.

did you even pay attention when you watched?

Their leader is called THE FUHRER. It does not get any more obvious than that.

No, I'm talking about the 2003's homunculi. If they were really created every time some jackass tried to bring someone back to life with alchemy, there would be hundreds of them, not seven. It just doesn't make sense.

>who the butcher serial killer is
I thought the bit with him early on in 2003 was anime original. I don't remember it being in the manga, but it's been a while since I read it. Most of the anime original stuff early on in 2003 was pretty good though.

Al forgetting everything was just perfect imho. Edward leaving the world is a type of death, his life for his brother's life, its very bittersweet and shows how far he has come. Losing alchemy just isn't as interesting or meaningful, especially since most people don't have alchemy anyway and the story is over.

The fact that Alphonse cannot remember the last 4 years or whatever also leaves open the nature of what, exactly, was Alphonse during the series. Or what he is by the end. The original ending is more thought provoking, imho.

>It just doesn't make sense.

sorry to hear about your inability to understand basic reasoning

>hundreds of them
Why would someone do human transmutation if is something fobbidden and dangerous?
They also mentioned that there were other hommunculi before, another Lust and another Sloth.

>human transmutation said to be the most complex form of alchemy known to man
>requires in depth knowledge of alchemy and an understanding of the components behind the human body
>requires perhaps even more extensive research and experiments just to devise the transmutation circle required to preform human transmutation if the person can't even get their hands on prior knowledge via a book or some papers
>is already extremely forbidden, so forbidden that barely anyone knows how to preform it despite the fact that people know that such a thing is possible.
>the only reason Ed and Al even knew about it is because Hoenheim was basically the creator of human transmutation and recorded his research onto paper.

>hurrr durrr should be hundreds of them, doesn't make sense

>sorry to hear about your inability to understand basic reasoning
Are we talking about two different things with you just taking single statements out of context? Do you really think that only seven people in recent history have tried to bring a human back to life with alchemy, the magical science that can literally turn lead into gold? THAT is what does not make sense.

I don't know man, why would anyone ever kill someone, something that is forbidden and dangerous? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and there are plenty of desperate people in the world. And I'm expected to believe that two random little kids were part of an elusive group of only 8 people who actually tried to bring someone back from the grave? Really? No, that shit does not make sense. I'm sorry, that is not something I believe would happen.

nah not really greed.

But like Al thanking pinacho for all she's done, actually I just like Pinacho in general so there was a few moments with her. When Winry could have shot Scar but couldn't. Al confronting ed and asking him if he was a fake memory when Ed just wanted to ask him if he blamed him.

I actually stopped watching Brotherhood after like the third episode becuase he always does le chibi angry face even when the tone is supposed to be serious. Glad im not the only who thought this.

I literally just got done explaining to you how human transmutation is so complex and forbidden that even if someone knew that human transmutation was possible, they would have no possible means of immediately preforming it unless they knew someone else that had that kind of knowledge or if they spent like half their life experimenting.

What about that do you find so confusing?

Because being forbidden and complex doesn't stop random jackasses from TRYING.

>The Nazi allegory is handled better in Brotherhood

Nah, because the real implications of the genocide and the anger and wounds it rightfully causes are glossed over, with the narrative approval of Miles and Scar's ""redemption"" (ugh). And there's something satisfying about literally smacking you with Hitler. Like yes, the Amestrian soldiers are Nazis. People like Miles are collaborators. People like Scar don't need a reason to defend themselves or to fight violently.

As for characters, all the Homunculi are much more interesting and developed, as is Hohenheim and all tie with the themes of accepting death, which is exactly what started Edward off on this journey to begin with. (Also not half as well explored in Brotherhood, where Edward is much more static).

>And I'm expected to believe that two random little kids were part of an elusive group
Not all the people in that world are alchemist, everything happens in just one country. Most alchemists know what will happen if hey do a human transmutation so they have to be very desperate (Izumi) or being dumb like childs (Ed and Al). Lastly the homunculi need to be eat fragments of the red stone or they will die anyway.

>Al confronting ed and asking him if he was a fake memory when Ed just wanted to ask him if he blamed him.
But that also happened in 2003 and it was better imo.

They did explain that stuff though? They took a while to do it, but the guy from the mining town recapped what happened right when Ed and Al meet up with him, Dr. Marcoh and Mei. There was also a brief explanation given on who Barry and the other guy were by themselves.

WHAT DID HE DO WRONG?!

They never told us that. What was his mistake? What did he get wrong exactly? Wtf was he missing I have to know!

the in-universe rule behind alchemy is that certain shit requires certain circles

even if they tried they wouldn't be able to fucking do it, you can't just draw a random circle and expect it to go your way.

You're convincing me that you're some elaborate troll that's just pretending to be retarded if you continue to keep this up.

I did find the Fuhrer thing weird. Fuck i'm dumb...

>Most alchemists know what will happen if hey do a human transmutation
Except no, because nobody in the story knew a damn thing about what happened afterwards (aside from making an abomination that gets smashed) until like 40 episodes into a 52 episode series.

It's an asspull made by bones. Why the fuck are you defending this shit?

>As for characters, all the Homunculi are much more interesting and developed

only Sloth and Lust are (and maybe Envy)

Greed, Bradley, and Pride are definitely handled better in brotherhood.

wait so was the butcher right...? Was The armor Al not even the real Al and was just Ed's memories put into the armor to be a pseudeo Al? Jesus fucking Christ I didn't even think of that. Al was in the door the whole time...

Different user but why are you defending Brotherhood where the homunculi are shitty 2d mooks for a generic and forgettable evil whoever?

I feel the same, honestly when the end of Brotherhood was nearing I just couldn't take its plot seriously anymore and I was just laughing my ass of at how dumb and ridiculous it progressively got. I also found it really hard to seriously relate to any of the characters in Brotherhood. I didn't even care what happened to Ed and Al beyond the 2/3rd point of Brotherhood. While the 2003 version had me on the edge of my seat all the way through.

I don't think Brotherhood is a bad show though, the OP's/ED's were fantastic and they did an amazing job with the fight-scenes among other things. But the plot and characterization just felt really hollow and soulless to me and that made it an incredibly forgettable experience for me.

I think in the end FMA2003 and Brotherhood both just fundamentally appeal to totally different audiences with different expectations and tastes, even though they are a similar story in broad lines.

>nobody in the story knew a damn thing about what happened afterwards
Everyone knew that would mostly kill you. That is more than enough to make people think twice before trying.

>Why the fuck are you defending this shit?
Because it makes more sense than "I will get rid of my sins, lol I'm still the same ashole"

>dante: I'm a fucking asshole and I'll manipulate the fuck out of everyone cause I wanna live forever
>father: hurr I wanna be god lol

Because even if it's shitty it still makes more sense? It's not supposed to be some deep thing, which is why the 2003 anime doesn't make sense.

It's a shounen anime, it's not fucking art.

'03 was decent. Brotherhood was a generic battle shounen with a "omg epic final battle". Shit sucks

>has more comedic moments
This isn't at all a positive.

original had darker more serious tones and i very much enjoyed how thehHomunculus were born in orginal. sloth being ed and al's mom, wrath being izumi's kid, envy being hohenheims son, etc.
i haven't finished brotherhood but i have enjoyed a lot more moments and i like the fact that it does have more story in the sense that it has way more things happening. like being inside of gluttony's fake gate, the whole country shit with east and west alchemy, etc i assume bones was too worried about adding too many outlandish things in the original.

>Because it makes more sense than "I will get rid of my sins, lol I'm still the same ashole"

what the hell are you talking about? We've been arguing about the 2003 version

did you just jump into this thread without having watched either show and you just read a quick synopsis on the wiki or something?

FMA '03 up until Hughes' death is miles better than Brotherhood because it has actual world building, the first story arcs like Cornello's and Nina's last for more than one fucking episode each and have a bigger impact.

Brotherhood is better at the rest, though '03 is still pretty great in its own right.

>omg epic final battle
Excelent argument, stupid faggot, what about the rest of the show?

I hated the Original's Pride and Wrath. Annoying little shits.

>It's not supposed to be some deep thing

according to fucking who?

>2003 version decides to change the origin behind the homunculi
>"hurrr it's too deep therefore it doesn't make sense durrr"

that's how fucking stupid you sound right now.

>Except not really, there should've been WAY more homunculi if that's how they're really created.
Given Lust (or was it Sloth?) is referred to as the "new Lust", there were.

Rest of the show was straight out of "how to make a battle shounen for dummies". It wasn't terrible, but if have read or watched similar titles, it's boring

>It's not supposed to be some deep thing
i wasn't aware that you directed FMA

Both.

only good parts of 03 was the parts they took from the manga. 03 was Bones labor of love while Brotherhood was retreading old ground so more budget and effort was put in and though that's a point for aesthetics not so much for narrative.

sure both endings weren't good but Father is definitely a more memorable villain than Dante

as for everything else from the politics, characters, writing, and emotions Brotherhood beats it hands down.

Thanks.

>Greed, Bradley, and Pride are definitely handled better in brotherhood.

Bradley is Pride in the original, and I'd say he's equivalent at best. He certainly doesn't make up for the differences in Sloth or Lust.

Wrath is better handled in the original, and more interesting than Salim. Wrath is a child, with the insecurities and neediness of a child and which underlines the connection between homunculi and their humanity. Salim is some generic evil whoever that looks like a child. His childhood is just a cheap gimmick that makes him creepier.

The original anime leaves the question of his nature much more open. At any rate the Alphonse we knew during the series is gone, replaced with the flesh and blood Alphonse of the past, who Edward wanted to restore.

You can choose to simplify it like that, but that's not exactly the truth. Father, or the dwarf in the flask as he really was, didn't want to BE god so much as feel free of being bound by anything, including god. He wanted to possess god as proof that there was nothing left in the universe that could have hold over him or control his destiny, a complex that was born of being beholden to a flask for so long. He also did plenty of manipulating himself (tricking all of Xerxes and the king being one of and the first) even if you don't count what all the homunculi, who were technically part of him, did.

Nice "arguments" reddit, now give me a good reason why you disliked the show

I'm all for his motive being that he just doesn't want to be bound by anything, but taking the literal approach of actually becoming god doesn't quite sit well with me.

>everyone I don't like is reddit
The criticisms I'm giving where a thing here before complaining about reddit was ever used here. It's absolutely a generic battle shounen with a shit villain and bad pacing. Parts of it dragged on and other important parts were speed through because they were shown in the '03 anime

>didn't want to BE god so much as feel free of being bound by anything
So he was DIO but less charismatic.

lol even Brotherhood apologists cannot make Father sound interesting.

"oh hes an evil...dwarf in a...flask whose tired of being in a flask wants to control his destiny so he shits out all these generic mooks for some reason"

I love how the original anime had the balls to make the villain just a selfish human who couldn't accept death, much like Edward himself. (Love that they made Hohenheim that much more flawed too, damn he's so much more interesting in the original).

The original anime looks at human nature. Brotherhood looks at shounen asspulls.

>any reason that you don't agree with is ignored and replied with "lel reddit rite? xD"
>loaded questions

Neither Father nor Dante were interesting villains, the Homunculi are where it's at.

>you have no idea who the butcher serial killer is
That's the joke, and it's not like he needs an elaborate origin issue either. The entire part where he meets the Elrics when they are kids is 03-original, Brotherhood didn't skip it because it was never part of the manga.
FMA03's filler has a problem, and it's that it doesn't give a shit about how much it shits on the characters or how it changes the meaning of the subplots it's adapting. Al listening to anything Barry the Chopper has to say and trusting him, after he personally kidnapped Winry and tried to murder her and Ed, is retarded even for 03!Alphonse's standards. Brotherhood Al is still naive, but he has more of an excuse since it's the first time he's met someone in a similar situation as him, and he can't tell for sure if Barry was ever a human.
>that weird wormy guy in charge of that mining town who hates Ed but was never explained why he hates him in brotherhood
Yoki gets a flashback explaining why he hates the Elrics a bit later, which is all the attention his backstory deserves.

no in the original Ed asked if he hates him. In brotherhood he asked if he blames him. I got a lot more feels from that episode than I did when it happened in the original and al was like nah I can't hate my brother. Ed slaming the table, walking out of the room distraught, winry telling al when ed actually wanted to ask, the flashback to ed after the accident laying in bed talking about how bad he feels for what he did, them sparring on the roof and talking,

>Brotherhood has more consistent writing, more focus on characters and setting, better insight into alchemy, and has a more conclusive ending that doesn't feel like fanfiction

>yeah b-but it's shounenshit!

Only the original homunculi. The Brotherhood homunculi are ass. "Hey you know the original's Gluttony? Let's just have 7 of those".

>better insights into alchemy

They don't even explain how Mustang's alchemy works in Brotherhood, m8.

>Ed and Sloth didn't get to reach some sort of mutual understanding and work out the desire for a very late abortion and identity crisis, respectively
Fuck me.

yeah but just talking about it vs SHOWING us them.