South Korean President Moon Jae-in offered an apology to the Vietnamese people for South Korean participation alongside the United States in that war.
He is also on record as saying that he was delighted ("희열을 느꼈다") when Vietnam fell to the communists in 1975.
Well, what was so different between Vietnam and Korea? If he feels guilty about South Korea intervening in the Vietnam War and basically sees the conflict the same way the Vietnamese communists do, i.e. as primarily an anti-imperial struggle against France and later the US, is there really any doubt as to how he sees foreign intervention on the anti-Communist side in the Korean War? And more to the point, is there any doubt as to how he sees the current US presence in this country?
Vietnamese here. If I remembered correctly Moon Jae-in used to praise South Korean veterans from the Vietnam War, and caused a huge backlash from Vietnam. Therefore, he probably apologized to get better diplomatic and trade terms with Vietnam
I also felt like Moon Jae-in is trying to move closer to Xi Jinping's China, since he participated in Nanjing's memorial and also tried as hard as possible to delay the THAAD. Your thoughts?
John Watson
Pretty much, but he should thank Trump. Because he had no leverage without Trump's aggro moves to do deals with NK or China.
Donard is a genius.
Leo Sullivan
No. You don't understand the complexity in East Asian. I don't blame you, most Westerners don't.
First of all, South Korea doesn't want to go to war or try to ignite war with North Korea. Trump did. North Korea doesn't want it that much either; North Korea only wants to maintain its regime. Second, South Korea doesn't really want to unite with North Korea. Third, Trump even wants to renegotiate trade deals with South Korea, which it hates. Fourth, THAAD is just a reason for Trump to counter China, which China knows, and China boycotts South Korea's companies, which South Korea absolutely hates. Fifth, South Korea understands that China is a rising international superpower, while America is declining, so it is trying to get on better terms with China (which Phillipines understands) Last, South Korea and North Korea HATE Japan (for historical reasons) more than they hate each other, and South Korea will be better with China on countering Japan's expansionary military.
TL;DR: Trump is leaving a vacuum of power in Asia to China, and South Korea is getting closer to China.
Julian Wright
When will Vietnam apologise to the US for defeating them and thus causing all americans to be butthurt over this for over 40 years?
Isaiah Ward
THIS
James Flores
never because america wouldn't accept such an apology because they've deluded themselves into thinking they actually won
Benjamin Brooks
There is a big difference between Korean and Vietnamese war.
Both sides in one were set up by foreign intervention in Korea, while one side was Anti-colonial and sovereign and the other was a quasicolonial puppet state in Vietnam.
Adam Cook
What made North Vietnam "more sovereign" than North Korea, in your opinion?
Chase Brown
KEK
Only one difference: North Korea or South Korea couldn't unify the country during the war
Joshua Perry
Because North Vietnam unified the country, and opened the market to Western countries. And Western countries need Vietnam to counter China.
Liam Gonzalez
It was sovereign from the very beginning: created by independent politicians and leaders relying on nothing else but support and participation of Vietnamese people, whereas Korea was set up wholesale by foreign powers on land occupied by them.
Jordan Gray
No you don't understand trump u stupid jungle chink. Trump doesn't want war with NK either or he would have already Iraq'd them. He chicken raced NK and fat Kim pussied out. This was aggro negotiation that worked perfectly against confused chinks and North gooks. And I know about the east Asia hate eachother meme.
Aiden Ross
How did Kim pussy out? He still has nukes AND has negotiated his way into the Pyongchang Olympics and open ended talks with South Korea despite absolutely refusing to give them up.
Seems to me that North Korea has won this round, the only way Trump can get back on top is by crashing Moon's party, which would run serious risks of alienating most South Koreans. Mind if he comes down hard enough that all becomes irrelevant anyway but I'm not sure he has the stones to do something so drastic and risky. Thing is doing nothing is risky too since North Korea is getting more powerful by the month.
Dylan Torres
Do Vietnamese hate anyone other than China? Every Vietnamese I meet irl seems incredibly chill despite all the, you know, carpet bombing and agent orange and spinal bifida and stuff
Justin Robinson
Vietnamese hate themselves.
Carter Young
Read my post. A country is "sovereign" or not is totally dependent on how many countries recognize it. If North Vietnam followed the same step as North Korea even after unification, it would not be considered "sovereign" either.
Are you fucking kidding me? Trump has threatened nuclear war with North Korea since the beginning. Whether it's a bluff or not, it seriously escalates the situation which both South Korea and North Korea DON'T want. America won't suffer anything from Korean war, but South Korea will. Reread my post again, it is very similar why Duerte deflected to China.
Angel Sanchez
>North Korea only wants to maintain its regime.
I disagree with this, there is no doubt that Kim ultimately wants unification or something close to/leading to it.
If he can't get full Red Unification overnight, he'll settle for a weak federal unification. And given how "pink" South Korea is looking politically now anyway, even if the resulting marriage in the long run doesn't look quite like North Korea, it will look a lot more like North Korea than, say, South Korea in the 1980s or even early 1990s.
Jeremiah Green
Moon leans towards North Korea because of his political background. It has nothing to do with Le Drumpf specifically or his rhetoric, although the ease with which he can be portrayed as a caricature of the fat arrogant American bully is no doubt perceived as an absolute godsend by Korean leftists.
Ethan Kelly
No. Because we understand "no eternal friends or enemies, only national interests." Btw, may I ask why do Japanese and South Korean hate each other that much? I have some Chinese friends as my friends do, but I have never seen Japanese and Korean being friends. Yes I know historical wars and stuff, but why hating each other on personal level?
Gabriel Gutierrez
and I want to watch porn with little kids, get them horny next to me.
Jonathan Sullivan
My experience is that they just hate China. They actually like americans now for some strange reason, and look up to Japan. Though I think many of them have kind of a limited world view, a Vietnamese woman I know did not know that Indonesia and Malaysia were muslim, as an example, and she's not a dumb girl (better at math and such than me).
Jeremiah Sullivan
Sovereignty is independence, lack of foreign control, interests and influence in power structure. North Korea will never attack (technically, they will if they will assume American attack is imminent), and the only reason it beelines for the nukes and missiles so aggressively is because of what happened to Saddam, Gaddafi and the bunch. They know that compromise with America is meaningless, and the only way to deter them is through the military.
Thomas Moore
Yeah, you've got something there. If you are a third-world dictator you have nothing to gain by co-operating with the US, they might flip a coin and murder you and steal your stuff the next day.
Caleb Martinez
younger generation doesn't hate each other no more do to prolific media exchanges.
I travel a lot to Asia for work and I have no problems making friends anywhere despite being mostly Chinese.
tho Japanese people are "colder" than any other people I've met and koreans have a heightened sense of superiority for some reason.
Brody Torres
>China is a rising international superpower too bad their stock market will crash in the next decade
William Morales
>the only reason it beelines for the nukes and missiles so aggressively is because of what happened to Saddam, Gaddafi and the bunch.
Thing is the perceived threat North Korean artillery and conventional missiles pose to Seoul have been enough to deter significant South Korean and US attacks for decades now.
If anything, North Korean nuclear weapons development actually made strikes against North Korea more not less likely in the short term. It also caused North Korea significant if not exactly crippling economic damage.
So I am inclined to take the North Koreans at their word when they say that they mean to negotiate the withdrawal of US forces and after that consessions from a strategically much weaker South Korea.
Jaxson Howard
Interesting. Then I guess North Korea's mentality is similar to North Vietnam during Vietnam War.
What's his political background? There is no doubt about Chinese political influences in the region. I predict Moon will become similar to Duerte, only less "honest"
Sovereignty is still dependent on how many countries in the world recognize you as "sovereignty" I agree with you about North Korea distrusting the West because of Gaddafi case.
Robert Lopez
That's because you're "mostly Chinese." I think Chinese and Vietnamese have no problems making friends with each other or with other countries' people despite the political climate. However South Koreans and Japanese hate each other with a passion for some reason.
Good luck betting your stock on that.
Julian Gray
there's a famous korean streamer that irl streams in japan.
He mostly gets positive responses from most of the people he meets, especially girls as he's handsome af, and really the only people that have shown him hate on stream are old grumpy men and some dude that stalked him from 2ch
Jaxon Morales
Of course girls liking handsome Korean guy kek. I mean general Japanese and Korean guys, even intelligent ones, hate each other with a passion.
the Japanese/South Korean hatred stuff is mostly pushed surreptitiously by both countries' governments to distract the people from massive domestic problems such as corruption and stagnation. Same reason Chinese sabers are the rattliest in the world despite never leaving their scabbards
Jason Brooks
Good to hear. Also as a Japanese, do you know this guy? What do you think of him?
See I told you! Girls like handsome Korean guy. Japanese guys still hate him like normal.
Joseph Reed
my dad is chinese my mom is vietnamese and she frequently says "i hate all chinese people, except your father, and sort of you."
everytime we walk by a retarded chinese person doing something weird she says "look it's your people"
Lucas Hernandez
I wonder why are some Korean guys so handsome?
Jason Phillips
HAHAHA. Was your mom from South Vietnam during Vietnam War by any chance?
Less and less intelligent Vietnamese guys blindly hate Chinese mainland. More like respect and a bit of jealousy (because same communism background but China is coming out on top, and Chinese leaders are more long-term thinking than us) Vietnamese have no problem with Hong Kong or Taiwanese people.
Benjamin Sanchez
>So I am inclined to take the North Koreans at their word when they say that they mean to negotiate the withdrawal of US forces and after that consessions from a strategically much weaker South Korea.
except this won't happen, so its not genuine, ergo you shouldn't be taking them at their word.
Grayson Gray
>this won't happen
The North Koreans just need to pressure South Koreans enough to make it happen and it will. While South Korea is often called a puppet state and not entirely without reason, the moment South Koreans want the US out, they will be gone.
Once North Korea has a fully functioning nuclear deterrent it will be free to conduct Yeonpyong/Cheonan style attacks against South Korea to its hearts content without any real fear of retaliation (since South Korea has no nukes and the us won't risk an nuclear war for South Korea's sake).
This is a much more perilous situation for South Korea than many realize.
Asher Ross
Negotiate with what? Abondoning their nuclear program? If Kim wanted peace, he would need to make some type of trade deal with SK and I bet that would create a flood NK people trying to flee to SK. Trump has painted NK into a corner by not giving Big fat kinchi boy whatever he wants. NK would have never cared to make a deal if Trump didn't put pressure on China and NK.
Lucas Brooks
>and sort of you fucking kek confirmed for /ourmom/
Colton Ramirez
If SK makes such a shitty deal then they deserve to get nuked by the fat boy in pyjamas. NK has little leverage when even China is feeling the heat. Also China doesn't want a nuclear war on the peninsula even more than the americans. China held talks with NK not so long ago. Regime change is much more likely than any type of war.
Nolan Morris
David Rockefeller? I think he's not really gone, as long as we remember him, and he has his phylactery.
Christian Wood
What consessions did North Korea make?
Absolutely none.
On the contrary, Moon asking for North Korea to participate in the pyongchang olympics, freezing joint exercises, and suggesting that the Kaesong industrial complex be reopened possibly in defiance of un sanctions are all concessions South Korea is offering the North. Without any denuclearization.
You're living in opposite land.
James Collins
>South Korea doesn't really want to unite with North Korea are you stupid. both koreas want reunification, but each under their own terms and conditions
Ethan Lewis
NK is making concessions by not behaving like a mad dog for once, giving peace a chance because the alternative is starvation and possibly subsequent regime change. All this happened thanks to China telling NK to chill the fuck out. Those sanctions put on NK aren't comfy and China isn't ready to back up NK in any possible conflict with US. They wouldn't reach out for talks if they felt good about their situation. I don't need to sit in SK to see this. Moon-hjun should thank Trump and China for everything, he had zero traction otherwise to make this happen.
Jayden Robinson
You say that but I'm having difficulty imagining any reunification scenario that doesn't result in economic and social apocalypse for the south and utter annihilation for the Kim regime. The North Korean people would be better off but that's because they almost couldn't possibly be worse off than they are now. Even setting them all on fire would be an improvement in their situation because at least they wouldn't be so fucking cold (tonight's forecast for Pyongyang is -15 degrees and everybody is wearing clothes made from Vinylon which is kind of like wearing a nylon backpack wrapped around you)
Camden Reed
This is one of the dumbest posts I've read on pol
Liam Moore
Kek
Bentley Price
Feel free to let me know why
Do you think that having a nuclear deterrent will make North Korea weaker and less demanding? Or the opposite?
South Koreans fear a war more than North Koreans because they have so much to lose. This is a grave weakness.
If you have ever lived here you also know that South Koreans are not particularly loyal to their state, nor do they exactly have a great fighting spirit putting it mildly.
While this doesn't mean that they're going to be accepting Juche for breakfast every morning any time soon, it does make them ripe and juicy targets for blackmail and distortion. In fact we already know they are based on their record.
Tyler Richardson
Okay soyboy, I'll indulge you.
>South Koreans fear a war more than North Koreans because they have so much to lose.
You keep saying this and haven't supported it at all. Show us several proofs of this.
>If you have ever lived here you also know that South Koreans are not particularly loyal to their state
That's not true, but while we're making up statistics, Americans support giving Japan dominion over the Korean peninsula again.
>nor do they exactly have a great fighting spirit putting it mildly.
Are you an white liberal ESL teacher or just a cuck?
>While this doesn't mean that they're going to be accepting Juche for breakfast every morning any time soon, it does make them ripe and juicy targets for blackmail and distortion. In fact we already know they are based on their record.
>south korean flag >they >they are
nice proxy fag
Sebastian Jenkins
I think SK should just dig an underground tunnel to Pyongyang, go full 007 and then full firing squad on fat boy and his friends. After that they will have to do a thorough 3D scan on fat boys face. With that 3D scan they will have to go full lizard people and disguise a dude as fat boy so no one think anything has happend. New fat boy will slowly turn down the nuclear program and get a twitter account him self to have fake twitter fights with Trump.
Easy as that, I should get a high position in the SK goverment
Angel Mitchell
No, I mean the journalist. Is he famous/infamous in Japan? How much is he telling the truth?
Ask the South Korean guy himself. Don't apply your Western mentality in here.
South Korean guy is correct. The U.S. has nothing to lose in this fight, while South Korea and Japan have everything to lose. If I am Moon I would side with Xi Jinping too. While should South Korea risk a nuclear war with North just to satisfy Trump and US?
William Reed
>while South Korea and Japan have everything to lose. If I am Moon I would side with Xi Jinping too. While should South Korea risk a nuclear war with North just to satisfy Trump and US?
Alleged South Korean guy just said South Koreans are not particularly loyal to their state, so why should they care if it gets nuked? They can move and restart their lives.
>If I am Moon I would side with Xi Jinping too.
>sides with Xi >rapprochement between SK and NK >norks flood into south korea
Yes, truly the better option. The main deterrent North Korea has is 30,000,000 brainwashed, malnourished citizens with no financial security. Not nukes, not artillery and rockets, not a large, poorly trained military.
But hey, I guess siding with Xi and the worst case scenario slowly turning into reality is the best case in your mind.
Luis Bailey
meant
Lucas Hall
>so why should they care if it gets nuked I don't know, maybe because they don't want themselves and their families and their loved ones and their friends and their houses got burned to ashes?
>rapprochement between SK and NK >norks flood into south korea You understand nothing about Xi or Chinese diplomacy. They don't give a fuck about Korean unification under communism. They want South Korea to counter Japan and US and help them in South China Sea disputes. South Korea and North Korea can be divided as long as they want. And China doesn't want nuclear war, unlike US does.
