Daily reminder that Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production and not government control

Daily reminder that Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production and not government control.

Spoiler: the workers are represented by officers that govern them

Ya no government involvement at all.

that's not worker control though.

no shit

Btw, do you see how (((socilaist))) China is, pol?
They're gonna turn the US into the next China and still be in control over you.
Ethno nationalism, and quick, pol.

This

If you support some porky who just sits on his ass and gives 1% of his wealth to the workers who generate his wealth in the first place controlling the means of production, you're unironically a cuck in the truest sense of the word. You are letting the porky capitalist cuck you out of fair compensation for your labor.

Wages have not risen with inflation. The minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60. This is equivalent to $10.25 in 2017 dollars. Federal minimum wage is $7.25. Capitalism allows CEOs to outsource and import cheaper labor (i.e. illegal immigrants) who will work for lower wages so they can gain more profit and fuck over workers of the citizenry. The foreign born labor force in 1970 was 5.2%, today it is 17% and that is just legal immigrants.

It is clear, capitalism needs drastic reform or perhaps needs to be abolished altogether in order to make the nation stronger and more unified. The question is: what should be done?

Yes until the worker decided he doesn't like socialism and they take his land and wealth xd

>worker ownership of the means of production
That's better?
Why aren't cooperatives beating all private corps in the market?
It is forbidden in capitalism to have co. where the workers own the means of production?

Didn't Anarchist leaders start to get liquidated by Communist towards the end of the war, on the Soviet's behalf?
NO PASARAN!

?

You can take $4 and get a gallon of milk, a loaf of bread and a dozen eggs.

What you need to do is lower the cost of housing, and link reproduction with contribution. Too many parasites and too many shit bags.

>Why aren't cooperatives beating all private corps in the market?

Banks don't give loans to cooperatives. You don't really have investors. Cooperatives don't use sweat shop labor or exploit their workers so they don't get the perks of that. It turns out giving fuck all about your workers gets you more money.

What if all workers take a paycut until the coop takes off?

Cooperatives do exist. Workers-owner can fund them. If private corps exploit their workers, more reasons to cooperatives to thrive, all workers will be wanting to leave to stop being "exploited", don't you think?

You can't leave Walmart to join a cooperative if there are no cooperatives because they can't compete with Walmart.

Sure you can compete. You're not "exploiting" the workers so they'll be super nice to customers, and also you're not paying CEOS gorillion dollars, so you have gorillion dollars to either give a better service or lower prices.
Why is that cooperatives are not more popular?
what can it be? human nature perhaps?

REI is a cooperative. Their CEO makes $2 million per year base salary plus benefits. This is solving wealth inequality how?

I've never understood coops anyway. The company is still owned by a few very wealthy people. Co-ops just give regular workers more say in how a business is run, that isn't worked owned.

"Worker-owned" to me would mean you get a job at a company, and you put in $10k or whatever of your own capital to buy shares in the company. Which is a terrible idea, in my opinion. Many people (myself included) don't want to risk their livelihood on a business. They just want to collect their steady paycheck.

Publix while not a cooperative does what you say. It's not a worker cooperative but workers own stock in the company so they feel like they apart of the company. They get paid better than anyone else and actually have benefits. If you haven't gone yourself every worker you meet is genuinely nice because of this and everyone in FL prefers to shop there.

It would be great if every company was like this and workers cooperatives are just taking Publix to the next step.

>what can it be? human nature perhaps?

What does human nature have to do with anything?

It's not a worker cooperative which is what socialism is.

And how do you propose workers be represented given their differing ideals? Ultimately some form of bureaucracy is inevitable as a practical means of resolving disputes. Anyone who seeks to gain or maintain power will inevitably give favors to those that help them sustain it, whether it be via tax loopholes (as in our current system) or by outright corruption. Socialism is impractical and a fantasy. Even the most well-intentioned communes (see: mahana in New Zealand) ultimately succumb to a crisis of leadership

So tell me. If you were living in socialism. How you would try to game the system? Give me a basic plan.

>And how do you propose workers be represented given their differing ideals? Ultimately some form of bureaucracy is inevitable as a practical means of resolving disputes.

If I'm understanding you correctly elected managers can have some power in a a company but could easily be fired by the same workers who hired them.

Daily reminder you are just spouting edgy phrases that make no sense outside of your retarded marxist fantasy bubble and need get a job and grow up.

Nice argument. You really got me.

>it works in mysterious ways dont question it
>lol once we are post-problems all problems are solved
>omnipotent supercomputers and factories yes I can do a little html
litteraly what 99% of all marxist retard answers boil down to no hyperbole or strawmanning thats actually what these infantile retards have in mind

again nice argument. you really got me.

Hey that sounds pretty cool lets look what happens in reality though. Dam Starvation and Genocide. Welp.

Hur durr means no faggot edgy buzzwords I have no job and no clue wtf im talking production owned me me me muh guberment btfo!

Debate this

So the holocaust was a hoax right? Hitler did nothing wrong.

You cant refute this you closet capitalist!

...

Not an argument. Nice try.

First off nothing in this point is talking about communism so there was no point posting
this. None of these points apply to socialism only to Marxist communism.

The first two points he makes about planned economies and motivation to work more when being paid more are correct but that's only an argument against communism because socialism doesn't need a planned economy and most socialist ideologies have money.


The rest of this post is retarded. He barely makes any actual arguments.


Wrong points he makes.
>This USSR was socialist.
>There is money in communism
>In Communism people work and get paid only what they need.

The rest is just opinion and there is no other arguments.

It wasn't an argument dumb fuck it was a question.

>dohooo not real communism dohooo retarded not a real argument dohooo not real communism not real money real communism just works
Nice argument Almost got us there

Are the same nazi in my last socialist thread who kept screaming about the jews. I btfoed you like 59 times before I realized you were baiting.

Is that you? Nice to see you again.

>When you own the means of production but there are no means of production and you aren't allowed to own personal property

?

...

I was critiquing every line but decided some simple questions will do.

Why should the government tell me what is bad for me.

Under what criteria does the government decide whether something is bad or good. Who does this.

Why would I want the government do this? The majority of people would not want to ban pornography what do you say to them?

Fascism as written here is basically 1984.