Why do libs insist on raising minimum wage to artificial levels, harming the workers they claim to be helping...

Why do libs insist on raising minimum wage to artificial levels, harming the workers they claim to be helping? Don't libs understand that only successful businesses offer good jobs?

zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-08/youll-never-believe-how-these-restaurant-owners-responded-their-21-minimum-wage

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smallbiztrends.com/2017/02/regulations-that-hurt-small-businesses.html
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fuck that, using the machine is easier.

The whole job of taking someones order is easy as fuck and they still never get the order right, and mcdonalds is the worst for all of this including shit employees, dirty place of business, and never get the order right and roll their eyes at you when you confront them

surely you understand the rationale behind a living wage... is that something that has to be explained to you?... its not complicated.

"Living wage" is a buzzword

Why $15? Why not $100?

It's almost like it's an unskilled job for young people or something

and it doesnt apply universally yes yes i understand.

but you cant be so obtuse that you dont see why people who work full-time want to be able to afford to live to a reasonable standard.

the minimum wage hasn't kept up with productivity , profitability or inflation.

I never said either figure... its a complicated issue, but to say that people should have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet seems a little unfair doesnt it?

Maybe they should not work kid jobs forever.

life isnt that simple im afraid.
and increases in profitability and inflation should be met by some increase in minimum wage.

you dont have to be 100% conservative talking points on every issue you know.

>Raise Minimum Wage to $15
>Company now has to raise price of goods/services to turn a profit.
>Price of living increases according to cost of surrounding goods and services.

Net effect = Cashiers are still in poverty and we've inflated the currency. This is not a good solution

This has never been a good solution.

The article you responded to directly references $15 minimum. Surely someone as well versed in economics as you can tell us what the proper hourly wage to ensure a "reasonable" standard of living for all is. Otherwise you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on when someone chooses to ignore your appeals to emotion through anecdotes, would you?

liberals are fucked in the head. why are we even discussing this? they're fucking stupid

They are just anti-business. It's an exclusively communist ideology. A better policy would be to increase the amount of affordable housing by only allowing deductions for multifamily units and new housing. Or the businesses could give housing as a form of compensation.

Are there other factors which may be stifling the growth of the minimum wage besides corporate greed? Would these other factors need to be addressed to ensure that the wage doesn't stagnate again at the new minimum? Would we have a continually sliding minimum wage which increases every few years? Is it possible to address all the socio-economic factors which contribute to the stagnation of the minimum wage and would there be major consequences to ignoring these through only addressing the surface level issues?

These are all questions you should be able to answer

Businesses are not responsible for you having a "Living wage." It's on you to take what you can get and live within your means. The cost of living is high because of taxes and regulations. People used to live just fine working full time, and women stayed home. Because the government was much smaller and stole less from people.

Real wages have barely risen in 40 years while productivity has skyrocketed. This is what happens when Capitalists control your labor. The minimum wage would be something like $21/hr if wages had kept up with productivity over this period.

Because there are people who have made such poor life decisions that they are adults who have to survive off of minimum wage jobs.

shut up you capitalist bootlicker, you were probably born with a silver spoon so far up your ass you've never had to worry about anything in your whole life. Americans work hard and you disrespect their labor. Fucking neet.

Why does this chart always leave out the part where China made productivity less valuable?

I'm not making an emotional appeal, I never claimed to be an expert economist there are a variety of complications that would need to be addressed, but ignoring real-life consequences for people and having wage stagnation for the majority of people while wealthier people see their salaries increase out of proportion cant be the only possible outcome either. The text of op never specified any figure, they just said "artificially high levels" and increases in the cost of living cant just be ignored.

yeah no shit.

Some of it is this. Poor people don't seem to want to learn new skills or knowledge in the age of information. So they just stay poor and want to depend on others.

...

Call down buddy. If you’re born in America and manage to do well in school, not end up in prison, and hold off on having kids until you can afford it, you’ll be fine. There should be institutions in place to help people get there, but the system works as long as you’re not retarded.

Leaf, if you don't know how to make a coherent statement you should probably just lurk

culprit is pic related, gross compensation for corporate tools and cogs who exploit the people and the natural world

do you think you have encapsulated all of the vicissitudes of life in that statement.?

lol white people are all immigrants

Easy for you to say neet. one in two Americans are living below or near the poverty line. ONE IN TWO. Meanwhile, capitalist pigs are exploiting our labor, defended by spoiled brats like you.

Sorry for tge misunderstanding. I suppose the "Fight for 15" slogan used in OP as well as the article must mean something entirely different then the $15 which has been touted for the past 2 years.

Addressing the surface level problems is all well and good, but the underlying causes will still remain. Unless you have a plan of action for the causes, you are essentially kicking the can down the road.

Well how do we deal with these people then? They aren’t going away, and do to breeding patterns they’re only going to make up a larger and larger percentage of the population, so what is the solution to unskilled people? Physical removal seems a bit harsh, re-education is a bad idea because the state interfering with the labor market that much is bound to cause problems, and doing nothing is a non option because poop unskilled workers are the undoers of capitalism.

With the minimum wage so high businesses will be forced to hire illegals or fail.

I’m not a neet stop assuming things about my life. How exactly is private property to blame for this anyway? How would socialism or whatever you’re arguing for fix anything?

You aren't an immigrant if you are born in the country. That is what the 14th ammendment states.

poor houses or prisons... perhaps an especially cold winter will deal with the issue.

liberals shun theory, conservatives ignore peoples lives.

Sup Forums rarely ever tries to strike a balance

Horde money and wait for them to come for you.

>>ONE IN TWO
1. U.S. poverty is ballin in most of the world.
2. They're poor because of the government.

>his is what happens when kikes control your labor

FTFY

no, not kikes you idiot, CAPITALISTS.

so what you are saying is that compared to india or sub saharan africa americans are quite wealthy... well done

compared to your ideological, western peers. americans dont do very well.

Fake news.

the government is owned by corporations. Don't blame the puppet.

Productivity skyrockets because of Capitalism. Wages stagnate or drop when the government and cronies use that productivity to line their pockets and stay in power. Does your little graph include taxation? How about regulations that increase costs for businesses? You leftists always conveniently leave all that out.

Corporations couldn't own the government if it was too small to own. And it takes two. One to hand over the bribe, one to accept it.

The problem is that some people are too dumb to be worth more than a shitty wage

i didnt look at the image. i just reacted to the "artificially high" remark which is clearly untrue... as currently, given the increases in productivity and inflation wages have been kept , if anything artificially low. in favor of disproportionate gains for the people with more societal power... a coincidence im sure

failing to address this issue is kicking the can down the road too

Yes. Compared to people starving to death most Americans are better off. Look at homeless in Seattle versus a third world country.

>starving is rad because most people are even more starving!

Once all of you actually are old enough to hold jobs in 4 years you might start to understand

and if a board voted to reduce the pay of their chief executive officer position, would the biggest and best names available consider taking that position?
if not, how do you think investors would react, knowing they were not fielding the absolute cream of the crop?
is it worth affecting the such things for a flat salary savings of a few million dollars?
what is the quality of life for a person living at the US poverty line compared to the average person in the rest of the world?
these things aren't incredible complex yet you insist on oversimplifying them
why?

Once we get 15 an hour, those big corporations sure will be sorry.

You know how productivity is measured. Lower wages and increasing productivity makes sense be cause of the definition.

some

so what do they do then, get a second or third job...what could go wrong. , no drawbacks to that whatsoever.

congratulations

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say starving is rad. I was responding to the claim that 1 in 2 Americans are poor, which is a misleading statement.

And btw, a lot of people being worse off these days is a good argument against government interference and artificial wage laws.

No, no..NO. Fast food is not a fucking career. They can get a job as a fucking janitor and make their "livable wage."

K.

Btw Capitalism hasn't resulted in millions of people starving to death and eating their own children. Socialism and Communism have.

No, productivity skyrockets because of labor. Wages stagnate when 99% of all new income and wealth goes to the top 1% of private citizens. "muh regulations" fucking blow me lol why are you such a willing apologist for oligarchs who would literally crush you for a few more dollars

In the 80s you could work a fast food job full time and afford a house and car.
I support a living wage, nothing wrong with being paid properly for the hours you put into work. BUT no spics. If you want to raise wages, you have to increase the value of the average worker. If you keep importing spicklespacks by the millions willing to work your $15 an hour job for $5 a day then you will never see a wage increase. Companies will just hire their slave labor illegals instead. So you can have your living wage or you can have hordes of illegals. You can't have both, take your pick, liberals

there are plenty of circumstances under which someone would have to take a shitty job.

how about not comparing the richest country in the world to sub Saharan Africa ... at least compare it to other developed nations.

>living wage
Minimum wage jobs are for students, new immigrants and old people. Anyone reliable and hardworking is soon rewarded with frequent raises.

Nobody can expect to live alone in a downtown one bedroom apartment and own a car on minimum wage; you need to climb higher first. Nobody ever was able to raise a family on minimum wage unless they scrimped.

For some, an income of $250K a year isn't enough and they live either paycheck to paycheck or load up on debt.

So yes, it is a buzzword.

Fair enough, but we need to address the problem in a way which solves the deeper underlying issues. Just giving people more money isn't going to suddenly alleviate the reasons which led to such profound inequality and will actually hinder real reform by hiding the problem for a few decades until it rears its head once again. Now that people are aware of the problem is the time we need to truly work towards addressing it, otherwise it will only get harder to do so.

>Why do libs insist on raising minimum wage to artificial levels

What are you even trying to say? What are "natural" levels?

I'm not the one buying into their scheme.

And yes, regulations make it more costly to employ people and pay them more for their labor. smallbiztrends.com/2017/02/regulations-that-hurt-small-businesses.html

No a days people are unhealthily and unnaturally stupid and have a lack of common sense.

>they wouldnt have installed these otherwise

Market value.

labor? please.
innovation & capital investment are what increase productivity.

>make minimum wage
>argue can barely afford anything because poor as fuck
>can somehow afford to take off every day to protest
>can afford professional signs
>can afford professional shirts
>really fat and can afford all sorts of burgers

Makes sense to me!

If people are cheaper they won't. But even without min wage hikes, regs make this inevitable. The Left loves big business.

Minimum wage jobs are minimum wage because they require no skill. More importantly they require no problem solving, no trouble shooting. Why would I pay someone 15 dollars an hour to do repetitive motions when I can get a monkey or a robot to do the same thing? If you want to make money, figure out what problems you are good at fixing

Yeah he left out the part about Capitalism being the only system that lets you keep the results of your labor ..........

>Don't libs understand
No

THIS CHART SHOWS WHEN JEWISH GLOBALIZATION KICKED IN REAL HARD. can you spot it?
hmmmmmmmmmm
I'll give you a hint. 1980 HONDAS.

>I'm not making an emotional appeal,
Yes you did. You said it seemed "unfair" that unskilled workers had to work multiple jobs.
> I never claimed to be an expert economist
Good user. It is clear you are not.

Daddy I don't what's know son we're economics leftists.

They were going to be installed if minimum wage was 3 dollars an hour. What's cheaper, a 5k dollar kiosk or someone making 3 bucks an hour?

no of course not, money is not a panacea but ignoring all of the societal problems caused when a person has to work 2 or 3 jobs isnt a good strategy either.

do wealthy ceo's really need bigger salaries?.. if they do, then who is to say that poor people dont.

>McDonald's actively supports $15/min
>gets it NY
>now can convince board members that buying a machine to take orders is more cost effective than hiring someone at $15/hr with high risk liabilities
>fires most employees they used to push for $15/min
>I'm loving' it.

cons
>cost of living increases
>product prices increase
>juggling act with balancing prices vs import prices
>businesses may not hire as many employees (need employees when expanding though)
>businesses continue to abuse programs which allow them to get subsidies for hiring students
>less motivation to start a small business and create jobs
>more likely to offset manufacturing to other countries
>those who were already making close to 14-15$ an hour are now even further in the shitter

pros
>they assume people will be spending more money

I know jack about the economy though, hopefully it causes an improvement here in Ontario.

Not every job is meant to support families. Some jobs should be left to teenagers living with their parents or college students working part time. There's a whole labor source we just can't tap into because it might be fine to higher a kid to sweep, but if that job isn't worth $15 an hour then it gets consolidated into other jobs. Now you have one position with lots of responsibilities and a high wage. You're not going to higher a kid for it.

Meanwhile we're trapping adults with children in shitty jobs which will never ever pay enough to keep them out of poverty. If you're a single mother of 3 you should not be working at mcdonalds, and if mcdonalds ever DID pay enough they'd fire every 3rd employee to afford it.

You forgot a pro.
>gov gets more tax dollars.

propose a solution then

Who else here only uses self checkout at grocery stores so you can help along the automation of nigger jobs?

Eventually, there's only going to be one actual person cashiering at grocery stores, to help severely elderly/disabled people.

>In the 80s you could work a fast food job full time and afford a house and car.

Oldfag who remembers the 80s here.

No you couldn't! Maybe somewhere rural, but not anywhere urban or suburban. If you did have a car it was a beater you got for $500 bucks and that house was a rental you shared with 4 room mates.

Nobody has ever been able to support a middle class lifestyle on minimum wage. Nor were they meant to. It was meant as the first step for those with no skills and experience, or for housewives or old people who wanted some extra cash.

That and the technology has only recently matured to be reliable.

unfair compared to what?
having to work 3 jobs to survive but there not being even 1 job available to you?

On a very surface level socialism makes sense that way. You’re the one who produced something, so it should be yours. However, the capitalist is necessary to the economy at large. There has to be someone that amasses a large amount of recourses from other people, so he can use those resources to invest in other things to make more jobs for more people. With socialism there is no incentive to create a new service or good for people, because you wouldn’t benefit from it, only the people who worked there. This causes a stagnation of growth, because nobody ends up creating anything new because there’s no reason to.

The irony is that the original reason for progressives pushing for minimum wage was to keep blacks and immigrants out of the workforce. It was part of the progressive movements eugenics plan and they were very vocal about it.

>living wage for my 13 year old kid at McBurger

I always self check out. It's so much faster and easier than waiting on a slow old worker or stupid young worker. When less people have jobs everyone can blame the $15/hr supporters.

abolish the minimum wage

>Ensures that companies weed out the poor workers for those worth the wage thus improving customer service
>Accelerationism towards more automation and a post-scarcity/work society
The question is why WOULDN'T anyone support this?

automation has shrunk the workforce going back hundreds of years, it will continue to do so

where have i heard that before

It's great. Honestly. But I do feel bad for people who can't find jobs now. Oh well

It's almost like the labor market massively increased in the 60s and early 70s for some extremely odd reason
I wonder what it could be

>weed out the poor workers for those worth the wage thus improving customer service
this is a joke post. No service of any sort has been improving over the past 30 years.

Ya and they were right about that part. Stop bringing up shit liberals did 100 years ago when everyone was racist as an argument for why liberals are bad now. It’s entirely unconvincing.

a libertarian rally?

And if wages aren't allowed to be competitive and it's costly to hire People, that will only accelerate.

I never said we should ignore them. I just get frustrated when I constantly have to see and hear people arguing for a minimum wage as if it will solve their problems. Sorry for singling you out as much as I did, but your initial comments struck me as more of the same and I jumped the gun.