Gundam 00, thoughts?

After the disappointment that was IBO (I enjoyed the death scenes in the second half), my friend said the true Gundam was 00. So I watched all 50 episodes just now. And fuck. It was even worse. Walking exposition and idealistic commentary on war all dressed in shitty battles. So I want to understand (no irony), why this is one of the top rated Gundam shows? What made it popular? And what are your thoughts on it?

I have no idea. I personally thought S2 was awful, and the movie was some bullshit.

It was basically the Church of Scientology's philosophy come to life. Even the worse AU was smart enough not to feature ALIEUMS, because the central drama of man-on-man conflict becomes irrelevant the moment the fucking aliens show up.

>I personally thought S2 was awful
It was watchable but yeah, I wasn't really feeling it either.

I this movie worth watching for completion´s sake? It can not be worse than S2 right?

I have a lot of complaints, but my main complaint was how everything became more simplistic and stupid. The massive technology advantage the main characters held in every confrontation got frustrating, too.

They were never really challenged at any point, to be honest. The unveiling of stupid shit like the suicide missiles, or the escalating powerlevels, just killed all my enthusiasm. The slutty Chinese girl changing her outfit was sort of the cherry on the shit sundae.

It's about a fucking alien invasion, man. Metal sperm aliens who turn every fight into Missile Command, and the solution is to shit GN particles everywhere.

>Slutty Chinese girl
Waste of design and VA. Her character amounted to nothing like 95% of the cast. Same could be said about the freckled crazy bitch, shame.

IBO shit the bed but the sheets were made in silk and the room used an air breezer
00 is a pig den

I mean, just fucking look at her

It was fun, finally they get to meet the ayy they have been preparing Veda for and the ayys are broken as hell.

>00
>worse than IBO
Shit taste is incurable

Also GN-XIV is damn sexy for a grunt suit.
But if you want full series about encounters with truly alien ayy lmao and not just pointy eared/furry/purple humans watch Fafner instead.

>It was basically the Church of Scientology's philosophy come to life
What?

>the central drama of man-on-man conflict becomes irrelevant the moment the fucking aliens show up.
Autism. If you think that you never got 00's themes.

Am I supposed to like or dislike this?
I can't even tell

This. 00 had a lot more thought put into what it was trying to convey, and it was reflective towards current real world issues much more than IBO was.

Also, there's at least a fight per episode and good characterization for some of the protagonists, which is a lot more than one can say for IBO.

Gundam was never good. You only watch it for Tomino being Tomino.

Best Gundams are the original from 1979 and G.

Just because you choose to tackle a contemporary problem doesn´´t mean it will automatically be good. The answer the show provided in the end is nothing but morals drawn from men that have no idea how reality works. I mean if you have to resort to GN particles mind melding as an answer, god forbid that Gundamfaggots hate it.

The point of gundam 00 with the mind melding is that pure understanding won't work and humanity need to fundamentally change with its mindset.

the movie is about metal aliens coming to earth and merging with life. but they do it against humans' wills and kill them so Setsuna goes off to communicate with them all alone after further transforming.

many MANY years later, he returns to earth as an immortal metal human hybrid.

I personally that was really neat and a great character arc

The show did do pretty well to address that issue though, with the way that there are multiple sides who view differently towards the solution that a 300-year-old ded man invented to unite humanity in his vision. Even the Gundam team questions their own decisions to support CB's initial cause, and they went through major changes to go with their reasons to fight against those who abuse war or forcibly control humanity through tyranny. Just like said, 00 isn't about wishful thinking, but more towards understanding the motives that drive the choices for change.

The guy could at least use his quantum brainwave to say goodbye instead of just teleporting away for adventures to ELS land for 50 years.

I like it.

I thought Green Amuro and the Man with the Golden Hun were fun great villains, and Setsuna was a great main character. Exia and most of the grunt MS had great designs (especially the sex machines that were the GNXs). Everything else was trash, but it was fun trash.

Did Anybody else loves Tieria's arc about how he was a blind tool of CB where he then came to question who he was in season 2 when he saw the other innovades and how he slowly became his own person while still serving CB and understanding Ribbon's group as a bunch of perversions in the system because they didn't want to understand humanity while driving them forward.

I also loved at the end how he accepted that he was just a tool that would progress humanity at his own expense when he linked to veda.

Tieria was already becoming a more sociable person because of the first Lockon and how he understood sadness for a human being. CB definitely would not have made it far in those 4 years if not for his change and humanly commitment to help others. At the end he does accept his role as Innovade, but he believes that they are not so different or superior to humans and implored that human notion towards VEDA so that the solutions become less robotic-like.

The dude had a lot of positive characterization much like Setsuna, which why they were the highlights of S2 to me. Also, Seravee was a badass.

Gundam is overall pretty awful; Turn A and War in the Pocket are the only ones that are actually good.
People hype the hell out of the original and Zeta, but they aren't really anything special.

Couldn't even finish Gundam 00, the characters were just completely unlikable. The premise was also really stupid and done better by other gundam series.

>expecting anything more than another forgettable rehash

Reason why most people liked IBO more is that they can better relate to underdog child soldiers wanting a better life btter than terrorists with grand plan of delusions.

People give this show a lot of slack despite all the bullshit it does probably because unlike a lot of recent Gundam anime it manages to be entertaining throughout despite the fact that it becomes incredibly stupid even more so than the recent titles. As many people have stated S2 is a disappointment and the movie is just polarizing like IBO it kinda suffers for "being different for the sake of being different" rather than executing it seamlessly also like IBO its characterization is very weak across the cast HOWEVER you do wind up caring about these characters even if they're not terribly good due to S2 giving more extended focus on them. I think the fact that 00 came after CE era is the reason why people are soft on it because they were susceptible to anything after that disaster but taken as a whole its not bad, I'll say its the last time Sunrise truly tried with a AU Gundam TV anime in terms of bringing on talent on board compared to AGE and IBO.

Most fuckable character designs since Yas

Thunderbolt is the only good Gundam, the rest is pure trash made just to sell gunpla. Thunderbolt got great direction, music and characters that only say a few lines, but those lines accomplished 100x more than all the lines said in any other Gundam shows.

More like it came after Code Geass and people wanted more drama and action during the pause year for R2. They just consumed it without paying it any thought, then R2 came and they pretty much forgot about 00. Rightfully so, 00 is garbage.

I loved it, it had cool designs. But I like most Gundams including G-Reco and IBO so maybe I have shit taste.

Maybe half of S1 was nice, a very few episodes of S2 and the parody from the movie. Overall, 00 is kinda junk.

>More like it came after Code Geass and people wanted more drama and action during the pause year for R2
That makes entirely no sense since 00 and Geass were entirely different in tone from one another and its not as if mecha anime was in a slouch that year since 2007 was the same year as Gurren Lagann and Macross Frontier. The Gundam fanbase doesn't tend to overlap with other mecha anime very well and the people who liked 00 weren't necessarily fans of Code Geass (as the gap in sale between the two clearly show) . But I'm mostly saying that 00's positive reception was more because it came after SEED/SEED Destiny at the time and people were willing to give anything a chase after that mess not so much its popularity in comparison to other titles at the same time.

...

Gundam 00 s2>s1

>louise chick overcame the mind control beacuse of her love
>meanwhile renew love was apparently too weak
>setsuna became alien and mindraped everyone
oh fuck off with the retarded shit. inconsistent bs logic is all over this train-wreck. and fuck that gay ass saiji for getting out scot free even though he killed several kathalons when he squealed.

I guess you were not part of the normalfag club/circles then. It was pretty much hailed as the next big thing after Code Geass. Muh ending all war, muh gather all hate and etc. Overlapping fanbase was a common thing back in the days when most people couldnt stream and relied on friends for their anime fix.

No, he didn't. I think Tieria's arc missed the point. I sort of wished he'd learnt how to live as a human - stuck in one body, for GOOD - instead of deciding "No, I'm better off as a machine-consciousness."

More, even death doesn't traumatize him! It's really dumb how he dies in the movie, and he shows up as an AI while going "No, it's cool, I'll just pop into another."

Sup Forums generally enjoyed 00 back in the day, what happened?

Graham was the best of part of 00. Too bad he and best girl(China) died.

Most death in 00 lacks impact. Take fucking LOCK ON STRATOS as a prime example. Guy couldn´t let go of his lust for revenge and decided to pursue it, that costed him his life. LEL LET US REVERT THAT SHIT BY HAVING LOCKON STRATOS BE BACK IN SEASON 2. Same voice, same personalty, same face and same mannerisms. Except is his twin brother :)

Fuck that.

That´s a decade ago. Most of us watched more anime after that and realized how bad it actually was. Had a rewatch of this series last year with some old friends, and it was agreed that there was nothing there but simple nostalgia, 00 is shit.

>>louise chick overcame the mind control beacuse of her love
>>meanwhile renew love was apparently too weak
Those were completely different situations.
Louise was just mentally unstable and the perfect Transam helped her by reconnecting with Saji.
Anew was under complete control as an innovade.

Did you even watch s2 properly? Lyle was a much different character than Neil because he wasn't obsessed with revenge and chose his own reasons to stick with CB after he initially was meant to spy on them. A lot of his character is merely intended to show that he tries to imitate his older brother, yet it never works out well and he ends up being more depressed and serious. He's not a mere revival of Lockon, and he proved that throughout his development with other characters.

This show suffers the exact same problem as show that from Trigger that came before LWA.
>If only we could understand each other
>Hey how about space sci-fi magic that does that
>Nah we can do it without space sci-fi magic
This is something kids have already concluded before they become teens. Yet they treat this as some master revelation that no one has ever thought of. Getting real sick of this, treating your viewers as lobotomized chimps.

yeah it was shit and you just wasted your time watching a shit show, you fucking retard. you could've spent that time and gone on and watched AGE, the best Gundam series since Turn A.

Sounds good when you write it out like this. But how it was conveyed in the show was a different matter. More likely that Lockon was pretty popular character and they played his death for cheap emotions, have him returned for some extra merchandise bucks. You have to realize Gundam is a series made to sell toys.

I'm the complete opposite where I rewatched 00 recently and found it more entertaining when I notice all the hints and foreshadowing. There were definitely a few questionable decisions (which were mostly fixed in the special editions), but the show was a very unique take on the war and Newtype themes that past Gundam shows have explored. I don't believe 00 is in any way bad as an anime show on its own, but I guess new gundam viewers nowadays look more into the surface level of the show and miss out on the themes that Gundam was always keen on exploring.

I doubt anyone missed anything when they watched 00 back when it aired. The show wasn´t at that much subtle. I doubt they even knew what the word subtle meant when they made 00.

Everything is explained, everything is shoved in your face, everything is in plain sight. You never have to think, because the characters will tell you how they feel, what happened and what they plan to do. You don´t get to do anything.

I still remember that one scene at the start of S2 I think, where Ribbon just out of the fucking blue start monologuing about his plans and why the reason to why he do the things he does. I get that this is children show, but fucking come on.

it turned to pure generic shit when the Thrones showed up.

>we don't want to deal with complex plots so we'll just take the easy route and make an identifiable bad guy.

They had already shown that he had a twin brother midway through season 1. It was just a single and seemingly random scene, but it was obvious they were setting up something with that.

>To make the MCs look less like bad guys let us have people that are much more worse, cartoon level villains
Basic shit writing.

>They planned for it
No need to state the obvious. Making an anime episode takes more than a day planning.

what could be a cool idea is if option party members could be a thing.
like say you need to get Iwai to a certain point and he can join you
or even need to get a main character's social link points up high enough so they can join you to move on the plot

The Thrones were not necessarily cliched bad guys as much as they were CB's secondary alternative to speed up the conflict for unification of the world powers. They were meant to elevate the Gundam team's reputation to the point where the GN-X and tau drives had to be accepted by the powers.

...

He was just like his brother. He too could not let go of his hate and decided to pursue and kill Allie or what his face, the guy that bombed his family.

You should stop viewing the show as a fan, and view it as what the writer intended. The whole idea with the Throne team was to justify the original CB team´s action. "Hey lookie here, CB isn´t all that bad since they don´t go and massacre everyone like these people here" . Don´t fall for cheap tricks.

He killed Ali moreso because he was a severe threat and a war monger who will never stop stirring corruption. Neil absolutely hated the world for causing its own distorted nature, but Lyle was keen on hoping on a good future as long as they get the chance, which requires Ali to be gone. He even forgave Setsuna for killing Anew to save him, which something that Neil might not have tolerated if he was in his place.

But what about understanding others? If he could understand Allie then they wouldnt have to fight right? Or is that only okay whenever they feel like it? You can not do this double standard shit and call it good writing.

But nobody believed in the original CB team or thought they were good because they couldn't disassociate themselves from the Thrones, which is something they had to bear with until it got to the point where CB was far too off from the initial promise for peace. The Thrones also got played by their higher-ups and got their just desserts, but the faulty reputation still remains and people could never trust CB until the A-LAWS took matters of life into hand.

And I don't agree that viewers should watch the show "as the writer intended" because that is just fallacy. There is no right way to watch a show as intended, and it's entirely up to the viewer on how they choose to see the show.

>same personalty, same face and same mannerisms.
Ah. I see you have autism.

>Nah we can do it without space sci-fi magic
00 didn't even say that at all. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

I've never bothered to watch anything out of UC except G,X, Wing and Turn A but is this kinda like Victory where everyone fucking dies? Like, I'm just looking at random characters here and they all die oddly at 22 years old.

Is Gundam still killing off people for shock value? Are the MCs still gary stus?

>A show about understanding each so that we can avoid conflicts
>The last episode is about settling with the strongest and deadliest Gundams trying to kills each other
No matter how they dress it up, it all comes down to the winner is right and you do it by killing the opposition, 3/10 for nice OP and ED. Thunderbolt have spoiled me on what a Gundam show can do.

>You should stop viewing the show as a fan, and view it as what the writer intended
>The whole idea with the Throne team was to justify the original CB team´s action. "Hey lookie here, CB isn´t all that bad since they don´t go and massacre everyone like these people here"
What makes you interpretation correct?
The other guy's interpretation makes way more sense and fits into Ribbon's attitude way more in the second season, which was to use CB as an excuse to get more and more military power.

What would you rather have for good writing then? There is nothing to understand about Ali other than the fact he fights and lives off war for its own sake, and he's the exact last person who is willing to understand or be understood. Lyle killed him because he knows he can't be understood and he'll only cause more trouble for everyone, hence he's the personifies corruption that CB swore to eradicate.

00 never preached unconditional writing. Lyle gave Allie a chance and Allie shat all over it so he was taken out. This isn't complicated stuff.

IBO has one major death in S1.
S2 and everyone stops dropping like flies.

00 S1 has one major death in S1
00 S2 the main team is pretty much getting happy ending, even though one of them died, he became a almighty AI

Thunderbolt has everyone die except the two MCs.

The idea is that pure force is unsustainable and a new force will arise.
00 Focused on continued force being guided by understanding while ascending humanity, which is why they had the GN particles create innovator.

The idea was that Ribbons would push the world forward with this force but he would do it without understanding.

As someone that has not seen double O. What is this understanding you all keep talking about?

>Thunderbolt has everyone die except the two MCs.

You were talking about major deaths at first, then suddenly jumped to that.

There is no major death in Thunderbolt, and the ones who were killed were nameless soldiers who are in no way significant because only the 2 MCs mattered.

00 Focused on continued force being guided by understanding while ascending humanity, which is why they had the GN particles create innovator.
Wait what? Been a while since I last saw it. But I thought the main point was that humanity denied ushering in the age of innovators (since they would more or less be killed off). Ascending humanity was what Ribbons wanted.

>Thunderbolt has everyone die except the two MCs.
> the ones who were killed were nameless soldiers
> 2 MCs mattered
Yes and?

>Everyone dies in Thunderbolt

I'm an animefag only but from what I can recall none of the major character die. The Zeek doctor just ends up being shell shocked, the other Feddie bitch ends up alive after the gun shot and the two MCs are cool.

The age of Innovators was never going to stop the forecoming ELS invasion through sheer power (as shown by that one guy who got fucked almost immediately in the movie). Humanity (through the CB Gundam team) knew that this wasn't the solution, which is why they stuck with Aoelia's philosophy to use both Innovade and GN particles to communicate and understand the ELS.

And you ignored all the deaths in those two other shows mentioned beyond the major ones just to hold bias for Thunderbolt.

Was Thunderbolt not just about Jazz and PopJazz? Everyone dying was just fine since the show was about these two. Or did Jazz´s bitch survive? I remember Popjazz´s ship being blown to hell.

Jazz's bitch was shown to be alive in some clinical pod shit and Popjazz's bitch was retrieved from the ship just before it exploded but ended up with brain damage.

>Thunderbolt is about Io and Daryl
>00 is about the 4 CB team + Sumeragi
>IBO is about Mika, Orga, SpaceGuts, Biscuit and so on, Tekkadan.
Do you want to count whathisface with the crush on one of the deck girls and the deck girl as major characters?

Well then. I have to rewatch it again soon.

Thunderbolt was meh outside the animation. Also shit OST unlike most Gundams that usually get part right

>m-muh jazz
Shit music is shit

There are new OVAS on the way but the new Gundam just looks fucking terrible. Still going to watch them though. Thunderbolt is waaay better than the usual shit Sunrise releases.

ELS invasion? I guess the movie is a must watch to get a conclusion then.

>new Gundam just looks fucking terrible
Are you talking about the new OVAs of Thunderbolt or a new Gundam series that is coming soon?

With Thunderbolt, you mentioned the MCs who are in different sides of conflict, so it is only fair to mention major characters on the enemy side for those two shows as well.

But it doesn't matter anyway. The number of deaths, major or not, do not determine the shows' quality over each other.

Atlas Gundam. The new one from Thunderbolt.

SETSUNA IS A GUNDAM !

What are you on mate? He asked a question about death and I answered. How did you assume a shows quality over something like that?

Sorry, I just assume you were holding bias for Thunderbolt because of the way you phrased the answer, as well as the lack of mentioning major deaths on the enemy side.

SETSUNA IS GUNDAM
TIERIA IS VEDA
LOCK ON IS NOT HIS BROTHER
HALLELUJAH IS ALSO ALLELUJAH
MARIE IS ALSO SOMA
SEIJI HAD NO COMEUPPANCE
LOUISE HAD NO COMEUPPANCE
RENEW GOT FUCKED BY SETSUNA
FELDT WILL DIE ALONE
SUMERAGI IS A WHORE
BUSHIDO IS GAY
CHINESE GIRL DOUJINS ARE GREAT
NENE DOUJINS ARE GREAT

god what a horrible horrible show.

>Enemy side
IBO: That Indian guy died I guess? Rustl and his loyal bitch made it. Choco was actually on Tekkadan´s side, which I forgot to mention.

00: Patrick I guess? But he wasn´t important. Setsuna´s old mentor? His was just fucking around. Or you want to count all the innovators, the traitor bitch and her slave brother?

No one has mentioned it so what do you all think about Marina Ismail? Worst female princess lead?

No matter how poorly executed 00 was, it's not bad enough to be compared to IBO.

The only good thing about the movie was Patrick's married life.

>Childhood´s end
>00
What is it with writers and their hate for aliens that want to lead humanity to a better future? We are the bad guys all along.