Just because something has intellectual value doesn't make it good. Case in point with NHK...

Just because something has intellectual value doesn't make it good. Case in point with NHK, its not just a surface level straw man critique of socialism, its a BAD critique of socialism. Aside from that its just a moe-blob depression-quest-esque autoplay dating sim. There's a decent amount of polish, and good subtle character progression, but an abstract art-style does not make something inherently better. And also just because its self-aware about its dating-sim nature does not change its sub par critique. Its a 7.5 at best, so whats everyone's obsession over it?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
bbc.com/news/business-37218507
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>its not just a surface level straw man critique of socialism, its a BAD critique of socialism
I only watched the first 4 episodes, explain further.

Something can be completely vapid and pointless and still gain popularity. The answer is it has something in it that people like.

I enjoyed it because it's not a view on socialism it's a view on a feeling a lot of 20 somethings experience these days, which is such extreme depression that you second guess your every action and even become afraid and unable to leave the house. Hikkikomori are a legit problem in japan too so maybe this is also something that's more poignant in the origin country.

>but an abstract art-style does not make something inherently better
Asides from some classic Gonzo QUALITY it looks pretty normal.

>abstract art-style
You kidding me? That counts as abstract to you? Looking at your post I can't tell whether you're just a fool trying to sound smart or some guy so desperate to be smart that he looks for things that aren't there.

There's a quote in there along the lines of "Well when someone's gotta eat they'll work." Which is a gross misrepresentation of the societies modern economy. Plenty of people want to work, but its easier not to since most entry level jobs for high-school graduated pay shit wages. Its not the fault of these listless 20-somethings inaction that causes them to become shut-ins, its simply a matter of incentive. Right now, theres almost no reason for some people to enter the workforce, and this is a trend that will continue until the majority of adults persist on government funds procured from the heavy taxation of automated businesses. We are hurdling towards this end and NHK suggests that there is some sort of way out of it, but technology does not stop developing so people can get jobs.

Welcome to the NHK had absolutely nothing to do with politics you fucking idiot.

I know I'm not using the traditional definition of Abstract art style, but the one that has been misappropriated for all works with unique aesthetic portrayals of the narrative. Its not ACTUALLY a complete abstraction of the directors "unconscious" vision into the anime-medium, but no one uses it that way in modern contexts.

Nice bait

Why not? Tell me, in full, why you believe I made an improper critique of this work?

top fucking kek i never knew socialists are this autistic

This.

last time i checked the show wasn't based on politics and economics

it had to do with social anxiety and what people who are shut ins deal with, the creator behind the manga i believe is a neet himself, even after some success royalties give him no reason to go work anywhere and he still is a shut in

It primarily doesn't go against socialism, but indeed the last part of "if you need a job you will get it" was pretty hurried and fundamentally wrong if you ask me.
Anyway it really has some worthwhile moments, which were the ones that pictured Satou's helplessness because it had something to do with the main theme.
Otherwise you are totally right.

Because you are autistic.

nice samefagging

The NEET problem is inherently tied to economics and politics. The show is trying to answer the question of how to solve it, and I believe while it has some feel good scenes, it ultimately fails.

None of this lofty philosophy you guys speak of bring up the simple fact that there's just more people than real jobs on the planet.

This scene made me automatically lower the score

...

But this is the future we chose. Our only jobs should be hunting in the wild or something like that, but instead we made up all this shit that surrounds us, slapped the "progress" label on it and then trapped ourselves inside of it.

Wait shit, this is the real one

You are the faggot trying to see some kind of overarching message about it. The story is just a simply tale of a depressed NEET that reflects the sort of feelings the author, a real life NEET, was going through. It's much close to a stream of conscious thing (and no, it's different from the type of Hunter S Thompson style inc ase you actually are pretentious and dumb enough to associate stream of consciousness style with him since he's one of the more prominent examples.). NHK is just that, a guy being depressed for being a social outcast, that he may spend the time ranting of society etc is not meant to be a literal critique of society etc. You talking about
> surface level straw man critique of socialism, its a BAD critique of socialism
is just like people who do the same thing with Fight Club even though in the end, the point is that the Fight Club members are following the words of a raving lunatic. Just because Tyler Durden MAY have some "truth" in some of the words he say doesn't mean that he's right or that you take his words seriously, because again, he's an insane fragment of the narrator's mind and not the most mentally stable voice.

>The show is trying to answer the question of how to solve it
No, it isn't. Never was, just an interpersonal tale of a guy who went through shit. No grand motive about solving any damn thing. People like NHK because some people relate to the sort of anxiety, mindset and attitude he was going through, not for some grand intellectual critique of society. That's it. There are no solutions being proposed because in the end, it's just the story of how a guy dealt with his life. He thinks that it works or doesn't work FOR HIM, not a blanket method for society at large. You trying to take his so-called critique seriously is basically the equivalent of you being deceived by an unreliable narrator.

It's not like Tyler Durden isn't right about almost everything though.

you are indeed autistic

>critique of socialism
What the fuck show did you watch?

yes, that's indeed true.

The thing is that the whole point of that is just a plot device and therefore bad writing, but it wasn't even a main topic in the anime to conclude that it's a critique of socialism.
It was used to give a cheap happy ending rather than to promote free market, I mean.

The show is obviously critiquing many aspects of the NEET lifestyle, from dating sims to lack of drive in pursuing work and building social skills. The main plot-point is Misaki's "project" to take the MC out of NEEThood, isn't the show, like Misaki, attempting to reach out to all those who are similarly afflicted with a solution to their problems?

>like Misaki, attempting to reach out
Oh look, another one who missed the damn point hard. Assuming you're OP, no wonder you went and write all that drivel. Congrats, yet another person who didn't realize that Misaki didn't have benign intention in approaching Satou.

I don't why I even bothered trying to reply seriously to you in the first place.

Real people don't have a Misaki, or can't just order one on the Internet as they please.
And she isn't exactly an angel either.

>not this shit again.jpg
Misaki's project is a sham. She doesn't and never wanted to reach out to Satou. She wanted someone worse off than her to depend on her. She doesn't actually want to take the MC out of NEEThood. How the hell do people keep failing to get this shit? Is this why the typical anime needs a shit ton of exposition to repeat a thing we just watched? Because there are plenty of people like you who would miss the plot otherwise?

Yea but that doesn't mean she can't be compared to our author on an abstract level. Although I will admit its a tenuous point to make, I'll concede it.

>The main plot-point is Misaki's "project" to take the MC out of NEEThood, isn't the show, like Misaki, attempting to reach out to all those who are similarly afflicted with a solution to their problems?
No, because taking MC out of NEEThood is just a pretense. Also, the author himself flat out admitted that nothing changed for him as the success of his novel just further enabled him to continue being a NEET by living off his royalties. The author himself isn't offering any solutions because he himself doesn't even have any solution to this shit to begin with.

I'm not the OP or the user you were replying to, or anyone else ITT for that matter. Can you explain what Misaki's ulterior motives were? I watched the anime 6-7 years ago and didn't read the manga or the light novel. I don't remember what her backstory was. What was her deal again? I vaguely remember something about her being abused or having some traumatic history that led to her Satou project?

>Yea but that doesn't mean she can't be compared to our author on an abstract level.
She can. But not in a way that support your point.

see

>tfw this isn't bait

Long story short: she wanted to feel less shit by helping people (Satou) shittier than her. All this feeling being triggered by childhood abuses.

I didn't either, and I'm a fucking communist.

There's this reality tv on TLC called My 600 lb Life. It's super popular on /fit/ and Sup Forums. It's about morbidly obese people, like bed bound, can't even walk and need people to wash and feed them type of ridiculously obese blob with BMI higher than your own weight. People in the threads keep asking stuff like why don't the spouse leave the fatties and keep putting up with that shit. Well, in one episode, a woman actually managed to successfully lose weight. She actually managed to go out on her own, do normal people stuff and so on. Guess what happens next? Her husband (or was it bf?) broke up with her. Turns out he wants her to stay obese and depend on him.

It's the same dysfunction here with Misaki.

>he's serious

>>>/leftypol/

If nazis and other cancerous retards could set up their home here then communists can too.

Get off of Sup Forums and never come back we don't need you on this board.

Sup Forums is a shitfest, I'm not here because I want to be

Communist here. I have no idea what OP is on about. NHK has no real political critique at all.

Which is political in itself. But I don't remember seeing any critique on politics in the show.

No, its not ostensible like LOGH, but I feel its present at the very least. Why don't you think there is a political aspect of the show?

The fact that NHK's author was still a shut-in NEET, even after his novel sold enough copies to get both a manga and anime adaptation, pretty much invalidates anything he has to say on the subject.

Don't try to convince other people to do things you can't do yourself.

>multiple self avowed communists in this thread

I believe he's said that writing the book was an attempt to get himself out of that lifestyle in the first place, but has since admitted that it didn't work and he was basically full of shit.

So what you're saying is that the author himself admitted that NHK was a mediocre LN

holy shit op

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
I guess maybe I have too much respect for the author?

Just shut the fuck up, OP. You are full of shit and already got BTFO many times.

Nazis are better than communists. At least Hitler had a nice mustache.

Author was a social outcast, not Adam Smith. He wanted to convey his feelings of loneliness, not to explain how efficient is free market. You cannot take the message out of the last 5 minutes of the show.

see

Always find it weird how many people I've heard say they read/watch NHK as if it was some guide to not being a NEET anymore.
Here's the cold hard truth: you get a job, or start going to school to pursue a job. If you find that you are emotionally unable to do so, please seek medical help.

Why would the author go out of their way to specify something as inconsequential as the fucking color of curtains in a non-visual work if it didn't have some kind of significance

Make the fucking automated robots work for us. I swear to kami, every single person could have a personal robot assistant to cook, clean, grow food, and ootherwise help them. We don't NEED a massive industrial economy because people could have personal mining extensions of their assistant and every other sort of thing imaginable. And we don't even have to enslave AI to do it because the programs necessary to run such robots are laughably simple, I could write one right now. But we don't because humanity can't suck up it's pride, stop fighting or obsessing over worthless money, and pitch in for one last group effort before parting ways with their robots that will build more robots that will build more robots. People are fucking stupid.

Nothing anyone has wrote has convinced me otherwise of my opinion. There have definitley been detractors, and people who disagreed, but no one has given me a decent argument with cited evidence against the main point of the post. I can understand why you and others enjoy the show, I just feel that it is heavily overrated. No one has yet elucidated a counter-point, only a basic disagreement and denial of my own.

This. The author is just some bloke expressing is feelings, not some academic or expert of social science.

Immersion is a kind of significance. Trying to create a sense of realness in how you imagine the place is some kind of significance. Significance is more than just some metaphorical, allegorical or philosophical meaning, by the way. For instance, Game of Thrones isn't deep, the author just likes to write a lot on describing mundane things to make his world feels real when you imagine it. That is still significant, it just isn't "deep" nor is there anything to interpret.

But not everyone will be able to manufacture their own personal robot for everything. And those who can create efficient factories to sell these bots to the masses will control all of the capital of the state, not just the value that reaped from the product itself, but the work that went into it. We are entering a future where unless you live completely off the grid, you will live in a society where only a small group of oligarchs have consolidated all power.

Because the written medium cannot simply project images, so the author must paint the image with his words. His point in decribing the surroundings is to make the reader "see" the room, not to tell some "deep" message. Now, that's not always 100% the case, but more often than not you're reading things between the lines that don't exist. However, I do believe in death of the author as a factor in arts subjective quality.

because its easier to imagine a scene when you're given enough information of your surrounding and you don't have to come up with shit yourself

maybe they were blue because the owner of the house really like a color blue

does it have any consequential impact on the story?

>but no one has given me a decent argument with cited evidence
> No one has yet elucidated a counter-point, only a basic disagreement and denial
Neither did you do any of those. And they did provide evidence, more in-depth than you, in fact. More so than you ever did. You just ignored them. You even quietly swept under the fact that your own argument got destroyed here

But wouldn't it be easier for the people making the robots to just give away the robots for free, or even make a self-running factory, and then go off on their own to enjoy their own life free of duty or money? Why waste a short life like our own trying to control people to do what you can do more enjoyably on your own?

I want to believe that with enough time, you can. I mean, a lot of things like say computers used to be for industry people, big companies or serious research purposes.

>game of thrones
kek

Its a mark of an amateurish author to include elements in a story which have no value to it. Even if the author mentioned the curtains were blue, we have to investigate why. Why blue? it couldn't have been completely random
maybe they were blue because the owner of the house really likes the color blue, which would harken back to an earlier part of the story. Maybe they're blue since they reflect an aspect of the character's personality. Maybe they're blue because the author likes the color blue, etc. etc. Every element has a reason, especially in a written piece.

The anime adaptation of NHK is fucking shit tier bar the fantastic job by the voice actors / music.

Has nothing on either the manga or the LN, both of which are vastly different from it.

>maybe they were blue because the owner of the house really likes the color blue
And so we just went full circle.
Also, thanks for proving my point.
>Every element has a reason, especially in a written piece.
If only you actually read the entire post instead of making a knee-jerk reaction. For all the talks about critical analysis, you aren't very good at it and can only jump to point at a superficial bit.

Is this going to lead to the part where I bring up other classical/ acclaimed authors doing the same thing and then you go full /lit/ hipster and claim they're actually all shit and overrated?

Well even if I reneged there I would point out , which is thoroughly convincing IMO on towards the integrity of my original argument (t). And most of what we see here are guesses, if the authors (considering lets say the director of the anime) intent was to give an answer solving the issue of being NEETism, then I'd say they unilaterally failed and those posts only go to support my original argument.

If possible I'd undermine the elites of society by making self repairing multipurpose robot workers. I'd do it for free, because I'd use my own robot worker to do shit like mining and producing so I don't need to buy it from someone else. The tricky part is buying the parts for making the initial workers.

What I'm saying is that even the author thinking the color blue is cool may still be a point of analysis that's important to understand the rest of the piece. To say that any element is completely inconsequential would be disregarding that literature should be analysed at all.

I won't go as far, but bring me one example from Joyce or an equivalent. If I can see one example from a decent author which I personally believe is great (Joyce, Borges, Dellilo, Plato just to give a few examples), then I'll concede.

Even if you have workforce, you still lack land and resources.
If you want to generate some technology to replace those, you surely would need the help of the society to back up the research.

I want you to look around your room,
pay close attention to colors, materials and textures on every object.

think really hard what is their significance

they cant all be random right? maybe they're projection of your hidden worries which you don't want to think about

write 1000 word essay on this subject and come back

>those posts only go to support my original argument
>convincing IMO on towards the integrity of my original argument
You have got to be trolling at this point. Nobody is this stubborn or stupid, right? At this point you're just going "I'm always right, fuck reason, even if it goes against me, I'm still right". You know what, think what you want. It's apparent that you aren't here to discuss things and you're not here to understand things. You just want to be right, so naturally any point people bring up won't mean shit to you. I sincerely hope you'll grow up at some point unless you intend to stay in an echo chamber forever.

>this is actually what communists think

your not converting anyone. fuck off and stay on Sup Forums

Oh my god, you're right, I just discovered that it's because I like dicks. Everything in my room resemble dicks.

op took their first critical analysis course and now everything looks like a nail

But we have the technology. We just need o put the right pieces in the right places.

Isn't Sup Forums supposed to be filled with nazis, I mean alt-right? Why would there be commies there?

No fuck you I'm the author I can control the entire scene. If I wrote a 1:1 description of my room someone may conclude that my intent was to externalize my internal view of my environment, which may contrast the "objective view" or something similar.

The solution in the story is obviously other people, dragging you along kicking and screaming (through guilt or otherwise), but the thing about being a NEET is that if you do have a social life, it's with other wastoids.
Eventually though, I think a hunger for something will eventually drive all but the absolute most hopeless cases out of the attic. I know I want a family, badly. I want to know what it's like to live in a house that isn't dysfunctional, to get smiles and harmony instead of a bunch of adopted kids who fight and shriek and a woman who shrieks louder than everyone else.

Not him, but writing isn't photography.
That's a bad analogy.

Read the manga, the story is about how a guy is fucking himself over, depends on a girl to help him and she fucks him over, and then he stops fucking himself over.

It's been filled with redditors and leftypol.

What is this ad hominen bullshit. Come back when you've coalesced anything into a real argument

Easy. You are so devoid of meaning in your life that you desperately look for meaning in fiction. And Girlish Number is shit and deserved to flop.

>Come back when you've coalesced anything into a real argument
After you. Remember, you still haven't even come up with any solid argument to start with.

I was thinking something along the lines of disputes over cultivable land and mining resources, it is not like your robots will be able to enter private property and mine the same resources that the elites are mining. And no there isn't just another place to mine resources neither fertile land.

this isnt a political board

Girlish Number is indeed shit

but Chitose is a cute

Read the LN

>but indeed the last part of "if you need a job you will get it" was pretty hurried and fundamentally wrong if you ask me.
Not in Japan it isn't, they have problems finding people to employ.

ITT: first year arts major OP throws a tantrum when everyone in the thread mocks him

Ok. What I'm maintaining is that the author is attempting to give an answer to the problem of NEEThood, and that Misaki is the proxy/answer in and of herself (we live for others and others live for us, so couples are just damaged people surviving off each other). The point was that the author himself is still a NEET, so his advice is poor or at least hes too weak to go through with it himself.

bbc.com/news/business-37218507
>Japan's unemployment rate fell to 3% in July...
Holy shit. I guess its different over there. Americans and Europeans especially probably can't relate.

You got me there
OP really over thought socialism though

>that the author is attempting to give an answer
And plenty of posts already said that's just what you want it be. And once again, they've already made more elaborate posts dismantling why your assertions is weak and that he never was advising anything. But nope, you just go "it doesn't count". What else do you want others to say?

The worst part is that you just know OP is never going to read the original LN

This is some kind of copypasta, right? Because it doesn't make any sense otherwise.