Hisoka X Chrollo

Okay guys, I've read their fight two times now, and I still don't understand all the subtleties of it, or even what was going at a more basic level. I feel lost, and I can't even follow Hisoka's genius deductions skills, even with his thought process written out. Can someone please explain to me what happened? How did Chrollo use his skills?

Chrollo uses puppets to wittle down and distract Hisoka while getting in easy hits then blows him up. Soooo hard to follow

jesus christ

O

But how did his strategy work in the details? How did he use multiple abilities, switch between them, and use different types of puppets? How did it work? He used a bookmark to use a maximum of 2 skills and save them, but them he used up to total like 4 skills. How did he do that? I mean his strategy had multiple steps, at least 7 or 8 following what Hisoka said. What are they? Can you explain them?

? Yeah the fight is that complex.

He used Skill Hunter, Black voice on the ref to distract Hisoka, then went in the crowd, used the bookmark to Order Stamp a lot of people and affix the S&M seal as well as copying them with Gallery Fake, took the antenna from Black Voice back and used it on a random guy, switched Skill Hunter to Convert Hands to make the Black Voice'd guy take his appearance, as he took the clothes of a random guy. Then, he landed sneaky hits on Hisoka while he was busy with the Stamped victims, and somehow managed to notice which corpse Hisoka had taken the head off in order to defend himself. He placed a S&M seal on it an used the other S&M seal on another Stamped to make it explode (even with its head detached the corpse can explode)
Then he kept Order Stamp, S&M and Gallery Fake people to outnumber Hisoka making him lose his leg and that's it

I'm afraid I actually don't understand. Didn't his bookmark only allow him to keep 2 abilities in reserve? I don't know, maybe I'm a brainlet, but that's a lot of information, and it's confusing.

He can use the order-stamp ability because it's user unlocked "Nen Behind Death", meaning the Order Stamp for control/explosion won't fade once he switches Nen abilities assuming he's already stamped them.

S&M's original user died with the nen stronger after death rule, meaning that if he activates S&M once it'll always be active even if he switch pages
So basically
1. Skill Hunter : S&M then Black Voice on ref / Order Stamp on bookmark
2. Going into the crowd, S&M with Skill Hunter, Stamp with bookmark then Gallery fake with Skill Hunter
3. Sneak attacks to Hisoka, manage to find the corpse that Hisoka beheaded. Fixed a Minus seal on him
4. Crowd again, continue to S&M/Stamp/ and use Convert Hands on a random guy to take his appearance, use Black Voice again by taking the antenna back from the ref to deceive Hisoka
5.Meanwhile, take a random clothes, go back to S&M people, use GF on them and Stamp with the marks once again. Hisoka's completely outnumbered. He used a random Stamped to place +Seal on the beheaded corpse to blast Hisoka's hand
6. Hisoka getting rekt and thus his leg explodes. You know what's next

MY

GOD!

ZA WARUDO

That actually made sense, now that I'm reading it. Thanks. I didn't know the nen stronger after death rule made it so, it does explain a lot.

RUBBER

NEN

BRING MY HEART AND LUNGS BACK TO LIFE

NEN AFTER DEATH IS STRONGER

That fight is actually genius-tier design. Puts narufags to shame.

Be aware that idiots on this board misinterpret the "nen gets stronger" rule as a power-up in the sense of a Zenkai or some other shit.

It isn't, there's nothing that implies that.

Do you think someone ever committed suicide as a way to try to make their nen kill someone? Kind of like that one stand in Jojo Part 5 that became indestructible and tries to kill anything it sees after its user was killed.

For my part, I didn't think it allowed Chrollo to use the skill even if he switched pages. I think they state the things stayed, but I didn't believe it also worked for activating it. That fight was really complex, so I got lost a bit in it.

Nen gets stronger meaning is stays even after the users death and is more ''durable''?

Usually if Togashi leaves a minimum leeway to make something not really believable possible, he goes that way.

Even if that were possible, it'd be ineffective if the guy can sufficiently defend himself.

Chrollo is a cheating faggot who purposely misled Hisoka because otherwise he wouldn't be able to beat him.

Basically that.

Nen that was activated before death and if the guy died with a grudge or a resolve, it has a chance to remain after death. But that's all that happens, the amount of nen or the efficacy of the nen itself doesn't increase or change.

It'd be kind of funny to see some jihad suicide bomber using nen to blow himself up and his death making the explosion stronger, it wouldn't be surprising if there was a terrorist group that used nen for terrorism.

>it wouldn't be surprising if there was a terrorist group that used nen for terrorism.

Like the Phantom Troupe?

I honestly screamed like a fangirl when Hisoka revived doing that, especially after seeing that mind blowing fight. Togashi really outdid himself in those few chapters. I felt like I had an internal orgasm reading that.

Terrorists cause chaos and violence to try to spread their message and cause fear, the PT are just thieves that also like to kill everyone in their way and they do it for the money and items they want not for some political or religious agenda.

They are terrorists : their political agenda being keeping the spider alive.

>Chrollo in 2060 when Hisoka finally kills him.

>Mislead him
>outright told him his abilities, told Hisoka "lol bro look bro I've prepped timed you do dis you're gonna die kk just quit." and offered him a chance to walk away
>Hisoka pushed forward anyway
No use crying about it.

Quwrof put down the clown once and he'll do it again.

What happened? Things were made so complicated to hide the fact that is no logic/coherency to any of it

also, "O' MY RUBBER NEN"

Check that explanation I think it made sense. I think what made it complicated it the used of multiple rules and skills on top of one another by Chrollo.

Dunning Krueger Effect in action here folks.

...

Fuck this boat shit I want to see Hisoka hunt down and kill every spider until only Chrollo is left.

Hisoka is so godamm stupid, he should have let machi heal him when she offered

now he's stuck with a permanently fucked up body and has to make do with prosthetics

>Hisoka is so godamm stupid, he should have let machi heal him when she offered

The fight isn't over yet user, Hisoka wouldn't accept healing mid-battle.

You really think Machi is gonna heal him after killing 2 troupe members?

I always wondered about that, is it really just prosthetic, or did he fix his body for real? I mean he has use of his hands, so it must be more than simple prosthetic.

Prosthetics controlled by his rubber nen, probably, which is also bad, because that requires extra focus.

Maybe that's a condition, that he has to be one with his nen or something retarded

Hmm, I thought he remade working limbs, not that is was just prosthetics, I mean he remade a nose and bones. But perhaps you're right : it might be just rubber-nen controlled prothetics.

I think he'd do that - as opposed to asking Machi's help - because he wants to exterminate the Spider alone, as a challenge; and asking Machi's help for that would ruin the point of his achievement, which he started by fighting against Chrollo.

Maybe Hisoka thinks he can convince Killua to get his trap brother to heal him after he's done.

Since when can Machi heal missing limbs and restore destroyed flesh?

Are you dumb?

Not the user, but she could have healed his neck.

Implying Phinks or Feitan can't kill him.

And that's about it.

That kind of damage is understandable but she's not a goddamn miracle medic.

Yeah, that's what I've been wondering. Not even counting Chrollo the Phantom Troupe has some pretty tough members. Feitan especially.

Yup. All hidden abilities aside obviously.

Will the rubber nen melt under the sun?

I think between Hisoka and Feitan it's mostly a matter of if Hisoka can deal fatal damage to Feitan before Feitan can activate his nen. Though there is nothing I can think of forcing anyone to stick around after Feitan has activated his nen, so maybe Hiska could just bounce.

>implying Hisoka wouldn't just decapitate him before he can even start his nen

There was a theory floating around last year that it was a 5 vs 1 or something. It was pretty popular, do people still believe that?

5 v 1? What do you mean?

When the manga was ongoing a lot of people claimed that Chrollo was hiding Troupe members in the audience and using their powers, and the whole bookmark thing was just a ruse. People came up all sorts of theories, ranging from 3 vs 1 to 6 vs 1.

I personally think it's completely false, but it was very popular last year.

Well Chrollo is a little pussy that always likes to have other spiders around him as bodyguards so it wouldn't be that surprising if true.

Eh, it seems a bit fake. I don't really buy into that, especially since he actually used the powers, and nothing indicate other troupe members where there.

Yes, illumi was also there, notice there was 2 different type of control needles.

I always thought it was kind of silly. Black voice was mostly a feint to keep Hisoka back, and we see that Chrollo actually had the phone, such that he would have to give it back. Then there's not really any benefit to having Gallery Fake be used by Kortopi, when it grants En for the user, which would be a benefit for Chrollo to know which bodies are in what condition and where they are(which may have been how he knew which head Hisoka was using).

If Chrollo was getting aid in the middle of the fight, I at least don't think it was from Kortopi or Shalnark.

6 vs 1.
The elder was also there, chrollo was bullshitting about his new powers.

I think it's false because

1)The fight makes perfect sense with the explanation given in the manga, as a 1v1, without any far-fetched theories
2)The Spiders strictly don't interfere in each other's fights, even in a life or death scenario
3)Chrollo had Shalnark's phone after the fight
4)Togashi confirmed Hisoka lost, so it's unlikely there's anything "more" to the fight than what we've already seen.

Just because a ONE (1) needle was drawn differently doesn't mean the character was present. The way the clones moved are markedly different from how Illumi's does.

Illumi was not present, period

>Illumi was not present, period

Prove it, there's proof he was there and all you have is denial.

It doesn't even look like Illumi's needle.

Why would Illumi help Chrollo kill Hisoka? Aren't they sort of friends?

It was boring.

Basically when Hisoka's Nen revived himself, he should have woken up as a vegetable and everything that happens after that impossible, including even recognizing Machi and greeting her.

He specifically only used it on his heart and lungs.

No matter how good you are, nothing can help you when your brain has died.

You're regurgitated the same line either you or some other user used in these types of threads.

Applying the normal physiological restrictions to characters that are by default abnormal is something or the desperate would do. You don't even have the exact time frame to even make that assertion.

>hisokafags are still in denial
Rich.

>Chrollocucks still defending a pussy that can't even have a single 1 on 1 fight without cheating or using other people's powers.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I always thought of it as like a "contract" he made with himself

What cheating? He literally explained everything he was going to do and asked Hisoka twice if he wanted to back down.
>using other people's powers
That's literally Chrollo's power you nitwit.

How long has it been already, Sup Forums

Watching the 2011 anime for the first time, at the end of heavens arena.

Am I past all the boring nen explanations? Also do they ever stop with the "let me explain how I hit you" crap?

>just realized where I am

time to go to sleep and/or kill myself

O MY RUBBER NEN

Eh it stays about the same

Usually though it's a narrator or something, the people with powers don't blab about them unless blabbing about them is an actual requirement to use them

Perhaps he used the nen to shield part of the impact it would have had on its head to reduce it? I mean he did cover his body with his arm and legs.

Yeah, but as it goes with the contracts there must be something he gives up as a sacrifice. And we don't know what he gave up if he went that route.

The way he did it fits in line with the way Sun and Moon retained functionality after the Elder's death.And in Hisoka's case, it only worked due to the nature of his nen.

My point of reference to this is how Pitou's Nen reactivated after her death, probably as a failsafe she set up just in case

Hisoka's was probably something like "yo imma bout to die but in return do all this cool shit to make me come back"

Yeah, that's pretty much how it went.

Moments before the boom, he enshrouded his heart and lungs with the rubber nen and gave instructions or "conditions" to simulate CPR to retain oxygen and blood flow after some time.

>togashi brings back the concept of nen getting stronger after death in CA and DC
Do you think he's been using it in interesting ways?

CA and DC?

While I do think there are some overexaggeration in the theory, the fight does have some clue here and there that something happened behind the scene that was never explained at face value.

What "clues"? The fight is already explained. There's nothing more to it, Chrollo won and Hisoka lost in a fair 1v1 match.

I always thought nen after death would act on its own accord based on user's strong feelings and there was no need for a user to specifically command his nen to act. It's unpredictable that way.

Now that Hisoka has shown to have explicit command over his nen after death, there's no reason why any nen user shouldn't be able to invoke nen after death use it to their advantage. Togashi fucked up

Did this fight confirm that Silva and Zeno would also fuck up Hisoka?

Well, very few people have nen that can fix lethal wounds, even after death. Hisoka is pretty much the only one because of his rubber nen. But before that, even Pitou's nen acted up after her death against Gon.

It's amazing how bad hisoka fans are with coping with his loss even though it was clear he wasnt the strongest in the series by a longshot

How was that clear? He is one of the strongest is the series, outside of Meruem but he's cheat-level, and perhaps of Netero.

Closest thing to this in the story is probably what pitou's nen did after gon killed him.

But of course Pitou's would - if the condition is strong feelings of regret, there's none stronger than a royal guards' failure to protect the king.

are you by any chance implying he's even comparable to people like Ging? He's a beast but he's far from being among the strongest characters in HxH

>mereum
>all of the royal guard
>chrollo
>netero
>ging
>beyond netero
>at least 2 zollydicks

You misunderstood what I wrote. For example, before his death, Feitan can say this "O MY FIERY NEN, AFTER I DIE DESTROY THE WHOLE SHIP" and destroy the ship.

Before Hisoka, you needed strong feelings to activate nen and there was no indication that you had any explicit command over it. Pitou never said: "O MY TERPSICHORA NEN, REVIVE AFTER I'M DEAD AND KILL GON". The nen revived from his devotion towards the king. Hisoka's revival is basically just Togashi showing the middle finger to his rules.

We don't know Ging's level, it hasn't been shown, we've only seen glimpses of what he can do. I can't comment on that. Surely Ging is very strong, but maybe Hisoka is on par. I mean part of the reason why he lost versus Chrollo was because Chrollo used the crowd : had it been a 1v1 without the crowd, things could have maybe been different - plus, Hisoka said the fight was like a heads up for him, so he still has some potential left to grow and be stronger.

Well, the chimera ants are a bit cheating. I'm not sure is Netero is weaker than Chrollo : Netero did do some damage to Meruem after all - and would you count the bomb? With the bomb Netero is at least equal to Chrollo, surely. How do you know of Ging's or Beyond's skills? The Zoldycks are strong, yeah, but maybe Feitan could be there too?

Well, perhaps you can kind of ''trick'' your feelings by calling upon them? Or maybe, before he died, he put his nen around his heart and lungs, and his desire to live, once he died, made it so he came back to life?

There was a comparable theory floating around that Hisoka had already beaten Chrollo based on that one conversation with Illumi. It took Hisoka literally getting killed by Chrollo to disprove that one, so don't be surprised if this sticks around for a while.