Was there a real moral to this story, or was it just a bunch of stuff that happened?
On one hand they said that you shouldn't shut other people out of your life, but there were some genuine Grade A cunts like Kawai and Ueno who anyone would be absolutely right to cut off.
On one hand they were trying to say that you shouldn't kill yourself because that hurts other people, but nobody seeks professional help either so, what, they carry on feeling like shit and hang on out of pure guilt?
Other urls found in this thread:
Ask again in a month after the BDs are out. Burgers haven't seen it.
There's a manga though, did they change very much?
Don't speak if your opinion or voice is terrible or else you get Ueno'd.
In life, people get away with things they shouldn't and other people have to pick up after them.
Feels like half the conflicts could have been solved with a simple "fuck off m8" though.
Or the good old "face, meet chair/hammer" solution which is sure to work but its Japan after all.
Funny how in Your Name Taki manage to get Mitsuha's peanut gallery to fuck off by kicking a table over.
I don't know about the movie, but both spiky hair and deaf girl are fully aware that telling all the bad guys to fuck off doesn't really work too good
Mitsuha's dad is a powerful man, nobody wants to escalate stuff with a man who decides which contract to give your family.
Taki probably made a rape face or two as well.
>but both spiky hair and deaf girl are fully aware that telling all the bad guys to fuck off doesn't really work too good
I think Ueno would have been happier if Nishimiya had actually told her to go kill herself instead of apologizing and playing victim desu
Happier, maybe, but she would not have treated her any better as she still feels that deaf girl wronged her by trying to get help.
No there is no moral of the story unless you count the small feeling of relief at the end knowing she didn't kill herself. One of the points of the story was seeing how the various characters interacted with each other through their own assumptions and prejudices. Obviously as the reader it's very easy for you to think up what if scenarios with a wider view of the situation.
It's been a while since I've read the manga, but IIRC they leave out only the less important arcs (e.g. the movie competition arc). For the most part, the character development is still there. They end the movie earlier than the manga, but I prefer the movie ending IMO. Less romantic development between the main couple, but the manga didn't do too much of that either.
The sound direction really made the movie ending.
>Less romantic development
I actually came out of the movie wondering why they bothered to do romantic development at all since at the end of the day it was never the point.
Yuzuru was the only redeeming part of the movie honestly, everything else was a rushed mess that left you inferring or rather outright guessing character motivations because the movie didn't bother to explain them, which means that characters like broccoli head or braids girl end up coming off as either creepy assholes or just straight up faggots.
was this in the movie
>No there is no moral of the story
There was one pretty straightforward moral. "Pls no bully".
The deaf community in America is pretty tight, is there no such thing in Japan?
>moral
>in serialized manga
People read too much into it not realizing that format of the story matters. Author written one shot and premise for series,l but after that its just trying to artificially stretch it for as long as it goes making up stuff as deadlines approach.
This applies for absolute majority of percieved "deep", "mature" etc manga - be it this, Erased, Oyasumi Punpun, Gantz or whatever.
Surely at least some mangaka have a proper plan for where they are taking the story. IIRC Death Note for example was deliberately planned to end on 108 chapters exactly.
Nope.
Pretty sure the moral was that bullying is bad. Mkay.
>guy didn't give the deaf girl a dicking
gay
Nice, I was waiting for these
What was her fucking problem?
So weird seeing these in color, Kyoani nailed the designs/
She is a cunt.
>they said that you shouldn't shut other people out of your life
This is definitely one of the main messages, but the way I see it the ending is not your usual "and they lived happily ever after". The fact Ueno and Kawai were left unpunished and unredeemed serves as a grim warning: some people are capable of changing themselves and make up for their mistakes, but others simply never face any consequence for their actions and just keep on living without a worry in the world; these people may very well be close to us at any moment, but unlike blatant bullies like Ishida they are much harder to spot. In other words, despite our need to believe the world is a fair place, the day of reckoning doesn't come for everyone.
Or at least this is what I thought when I was reading the last few chapters: even though everything was building up to a happy "sugary" ending, Ueno and Kawai managed to get away with everything, thus also leaving a "bitter" taste in my mouth, so that's how I interpreted the whole thing.
Morals do not equate depth. Punpun doesn't have any moral message of any kind, or at least not a general one; some characters may give a moral lesson here and there, but they never became part of an overarching theme. It's literally just the story of one guy, and some people find it deep because they relate or at least empathize with the main character.
I think the story was telling us that you don't have to like someone to coexist with them.
Yeah, Yuzuru was the best character. Though I feel like this show will get better once you rewatch it and appreciate the subtleties in which the themes are explored.
That, or it really is a mess and not worth discussion.
moral is if you see a bully,gun him down before he bullies the qt girl
Japan is a weird country which is extremely reserved in emotion and still places high value on how citizens portray themselves to one another.
That's why mental health services are non existent and Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. You're just meant to deal with it. "it" being life.
There's a good doc on that topic, done by a irish man iirc
>Ueno and Kawai managed to get away with everything
How exactly would you have had them get their comeuppance? If anything really bad happened to them that would probably leave a bad taste in the main characters' mouths. Ueno gets NTRed by a deaf-mute moeblob, that's enough of a bad end for her.
There's no clear cut Big Bad for you to hate on in real life. Everyone has their demons and flaws. The story is very clear on this.
It understandably turns off those who cannot accept anything other than black-and-white morality and characters
>There's no clear cut Big Bad for you to hate on in real life.
the parents in law seemed like irredeemable dicks.
The big bad here was their elementary school teacher who just sat there and watched as one of his students was physically tormented by the others, then intimidated a single student into taking all the blame when his boss came down and started breathing down his neck.
I'll rip Kawai's one to shreds. Red hair is a good boy though, he didn't do anything wrong.
>he didn't do anything wrong
His face makes him look like the villain of a NTR doujinshi, and he strode into a situation that had nothing to do with him that he knew barely anything about and started making sweeping moralfag pronouncements.
Certainly. Their actions are deplorable no matter the context. Just like Ueno's antagonistic actions, young Shoya's intense bullying, manga Nishimom's harshness on her daughter. But all of their wrongs need to be viewed in context of their own perspective, personality and situation, as we know from having been an audience to their story.
>Tone deaf moaning
Must be horrifying, I don't think even Saori Hayami can make it work.
I will never understand why Ueno hated Shouko so much.
She didn't want a dicking.
See
>Punpun doesn't have any moral message of any kind
"Living is harder than dying."
What exactly is their teacher's perspective other than that he is an apathetic faggot who only takes action when his job is threatened?
>I will never understand why Ueno hated Shouko so much.
NTR also by being a doormat it makes Ueno look like the villain any time they are in opposition.
The moral is that Yuzuru is extremely cute and the true main girl of this story.
He's in charge of an entire class, not just the feelings of Nishimiya or Shouya, and he isn't obliged to micromanage the actions of every single one of his boisterous elementary school children just to prevent hurt feelings. And he fulfilled his main duty: teaching.
Empathy, you ought to learn it.
I always assumed it was "don't close yourself off, open up to others" but that just may be my own bias speaking.
>I will never understand why Ueno hated Shouko so much.
Shouko's uber-passive and self-defeating attitude goes in stark contrast with Ueno's moving forward and challenging nature. Notice how whenever Ueno's trying to help Shouya she always goes about either accepting whatever he did as right and move on or straight out push him to make a move to fix his shit up (even though it sometimes backfires, like at the bridge).
Why did Shoya have such a terrible hairstyle when his mom is a stylist?
Nice bs there. It's pretty obvious that teacher was just cruising his job without giving a fuck about the kids he was tutoring or doing any real effort.
You clearly don't understand the job of an elementary school teacher.
>and he isn't obliged to micromanage the actions of every single one of his boisterous elementary school children just to prevent hurt feelings.
Disrupting class and wanton destruction of other students' property is always the faculty's business in any reasonable school. The moment blood was shed the school should have been on that.
>And he fulfilled his main duty: teaching.
Have you ever heard of pastoral care, because that's also one of the duties of a teacher.
Please, he's never portrayed as anything other than villainous.
If you want a passive teacher in a bullying story you can sympathize with (as well as a better bullying story in general), look at 3gatsu.
Come to think of it, what the hell was a deaf girl doing in a school that had no means of catering to her needs?
Ueno was far and away the best character in this.
She might not be a good person but she tries sometimes, which makes her loads better than most assholes. If it had lasted longer I kinda wanted to see if she and Shouko could come to some sort of peace. Like I mean she's willing to hangout with her towards the end and do each other's hair but I wanna know if they were ever cool cause I mean everyone has that one friend that hate but still consider a friend but maybe they can move past the hate part.
And you're right.
The thing is: that doesn't make him the One Big Bad. Which was my point.
He's just some guy living his life, and very importantly, his behaviour is comfortably within the expected range of expectations of what any of us would do if we had his personality and were in his situation. That wouldn't make us evil people, and it doesn't make him an evil person.
It doesn't excuse his behaviour, mind. It simply helps us understand why he did what he did, and in the meantime gives us an insight into the impact of our actions on everything that we might not have realized on our own in real life. Which I believe is a primary aim of this story.
completely agreed
Why does she use male pronouns and dress like a boy again?
She was a straight up bitch. At least Ueno admits she's a cunt.
Ueno was pretty much redeemed and punished. She got her ass kicked, and she was actual friends with the group at the end.
>She might not be a good person but she tries sometimes, which makes her loads better than most assholes.
This. At least Ueno is actively trying to fix shit up instead of passively taking and moping in self-defeat.
As mentioned earlier, I'm not excusing his deplorable actions. I'm just pointing out his likely perspective as asked about.
>She got her ass kicked
I think the most unbelievable part of the whole movie was when she fought an old lady, given how subservience to your elders is drilled hard into all the Confucian-influenced cultures.
>his behaviour is comfortably within the expected range of expectations of what any of us would do if we had his personality and were in his situation
Not true. Literally nobody with an ounce of empathy would just stand by and watch the new disabled girl getting bullied as harshly as she did. Especially as a teacher. You can't defend this guy, and you can't make him fit your interpretation of the film.
>Literally nobody with an ounce of empathy
Well then he's a guy with no empathy, who's seen so much crap in his job that he can't muster the motivation to give a shit anymore. They exist too.
>I don’t just take this fucking job home, you know. I take this job home, it fucking ties me to the bed, and it fucking fucks me from arsehole to breakfast! Then it wakes me up in the morning with a cup full of piss slung in my face, slaps me about the chops, to make sure I’m awake enough so it can kick me in the fucking bollocks! This job has taken me in every hole in my fucking body! [NAME] IS GONE! You can't know [NAME], because [NAME] is not here! [NAME] fucking left the building fucking years ago! This is a fucking husk, I am a fucking host for this fucking job. Do you want this job? Then you're gonna have to fucking swallow this whole fucking life and let it grow inside you like a parasite. Getting bigger and bigger and bigger until it fucking eats your insides alive and it stares out of your eyes and tells you what to do.
It's pretty clear how little a shit he gives that he just yelled at Shouya to stand up and take the blame for everything, which means that he wanted the solution to be as uncomplicated as possible so he could just get back to his coffee.
>>Not true. Literally nobody with an ounce of empathy would just stand by and watch the new disabled girl getting bullied as harshly as she did. Especially as a teacher.
People don't automagically transform into some beacon of light and role model of children everywhere when they sign up as teachers.
And you underestimate the human capacity to rationalize away shit that happens in front of them.
>>You can't defend this guy, and you can't make him fit your interpretation of the film.
Can you scroll up and read? I've emphasized repeatedly that his actions are deplorable. I seek to show that his behaviour is understandable, not excusable.
So he's understandably a villain.
Everyone in the story is, by logical extension, just by being themselves.
Insisting on such an interpretation leads only to the classic hedgehog's dilemma.
>Everyone in the story is
Even Pedro?
>Well then he's a guy with no empathy, who's seen so much crap in his job that he can't muster the motivation to give a shit anymore
And this makes him a bad person.
He's not supposed to transform into a beacon of light, that's what he's at least supposed to attempt to be as an elementary school teacher.
And I understand his behaviour. I understand that he's an asshole and that he isn't doing his job properly. He is obliged to care for his students, and he's not doing that.
Possibly, if the author decided to make him an important character in the story.
But we are digressing.
>who's seen so much crap in his job that he can't muster the motivation to give a shit anymore
You're projecting traits on the character that are never suggested, not even in a throwaway line.
He's never depicted as anything more than an asshole that just doesn't care, that refuses to do his job as homeroom teacher and supervisor and also refuses to take responsibility for it.
We're kind of arguing past each other here.
We agree that his actions are understandablem and that he is regardless being an ass and a bad person, in your own words. What I'm not so sure about is that he should be painted as a Bad Person in the black-and-white morality sense. Such a morality classification system is inherently unrealistic and inaccurate, and it looks to me you are asserting otherwise, which I disagree with.
Everything after the oneshot was drama for the sake of drama, with the author not knowing how to take the characters and just having them hang out with a bunch of neurotic assholes for no real reason, even treating them as friends despite them not showing any signs of wanting to change.
>his actions are understandable
No, they aren't.
And making up excuses, like that maybe he was apathetic because his dog just died or something, doesn't change that.
Excuses for what exactly?
How are his actions not understandable?
Nishimom was like 40. Plus she did get fucking bodied before fighting back.
The thing that's most unrealistic is that nothing legal ever came out of anything
Haven't read the source material, is she really that bad of a person? She easily has the cutest character design of the cast for me, so it hurts to know that.
Yeah sorry buddy shes the definition of plastic.
She is a classical narcissist played straight in the form of a cute girl.
>Nishiya's soiling himself with Free designs again
Fuck
Understandable as there actually are pieces of shit that act like that in the world? Yes.
Understandable as he is a fully realized, morally grey character whose actions we can emphasize with? No, he doesn't have any characterization other than being an asshole, in every single one of his actions.
Yes, she is.
I won't disagree with that at least, in the sense that the story doesn't explore his character beyond "he knowingly enabled the whole mess and let it escalate". It's just not enough for me to therefore make the leap into "he is morally unambiguously evil".
"You can be forgiven"
How long will it ideally take for the BDs to get subbed?
Even chink paid to watch it.....
Probably not too long since it's a Kyoani movie. Kyoukai no Kanata movie was subbed within a week I think.
So I watched this in a SEA shithole, my theater was packed with 99% Chinese who laughed out loud at the "tsuki" gag.
Anybody else who watched it have a similar experience in your country?
also I should elaborate that they didn't laugh at that gag, some of them proceeded to repeat "tsuki/suki" out loud like it was the funniest thing in the world.
Reminds me of the reaction to the pronouns gag in Your Name
*they didn't just laugh
>SEA shithole
?
Just mild autism.
>some of them proceeded to repeat "tsuki/suki" out loud like it was the funniest thing in the world.
and why shouldn't they?
The pronouns gag was funny though.
That's why I always prefer to watch movies privately. Watching it with others almost always ruins shit for me.
last time I watched anime in a theater it was in alamo drafthouse,
they have a pretty strict no talking policy so it was not an issue