Heaven's Feel

>"I'm going to completely discard my super hero ideals, which are the core of my character, to save third best girl who also happens to be terminally ill and will probably go on a killing spree sooner or later."
>The game even gave me a bad ending for choosing not to go along with this insanity

For fucks sake I almost don't even want to finish this story now. Does anyone else think that Heaven's Feel is the most retarded route?

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Fuck off

Nope. It's the best route. Plebs like you wouldn understand.

...

I don't know what can be worse than saber's route.

Why would you try to be a super hero if you can't save a girl.

Also, heroes make sacrifices

>hurr durr i don't understand what am I reading derp

HF is a deconstruction of FSN.

>realta nua

Yes, it is literally the worst route plotwise, with some of the best moments in it (so still worth reading). Nihilist faggots like to pretend like it's something great because it makes them feel grown up.

what is the problem? i played that with the patch for uncensors

Sakura is a shit. Rin and Saber are better. Also Shirou doesn't turn into a pansy who gives up everything just for the sake of his waifu in the other routes.

Playing F/SN is the worst route.

Worst girl, best route.
This is something literally everybody knows and you are probably retarded.

I think the main problem with Heaven's Feel is that it's the final route in the game. The immediate preceding route goes on about how beautiful Shirou's ideal is and even if it doesn't work, it's not wrong to pursue it, etc., etc. It pounds into your head that Shirou loves and admires this ideal.

So when Heaven's Feel goes and says that you should abandon it, it makes the Rin route seem really pointless.

I'm a big fan of Mr Freeze from the animated 90s Batman series, and Shiro from HF reminded me quite a bit of him.
Being partners in crime with Kotomine was also a blast.
Kiritsugu would kill Shiro in a second if he was around.

>Why would you try to be a super hero if you can't save a girl

Because protecting the thousands of other lives she endangers is more important.

You idiot. The entire point of the 3 routes thing is to see Shirou's ideals challenged.

On Seibha's he holds onto his ideals completely, on Rin's he realizes his ideals are not realistic, but will still follow up on them trying his best, on wormslut route he decides to toss away his ideals since he has reached a point where sticking with them will make him kill the woman he loves.

The fact that it just happened to be the worst woman in the entire franchise is just bad luck.

Stay Night: Fate and UBW
Other Night: Heaven's Feel

Ignore the butthurt fanboys. Your reaction is completely reasonable because you're made to play the routes in an order and HF is a sharp contrast to UBW.

Which of Shiro's paths would Kiritsugu approve of?

>Why would you try to be a super hero if you can't save a girl.
The same way Kiritsugu did.

HF is the only route the real Kiritsugu is brought up as important (like all his circumstances, his nature, his family, his actions); the other routes mention Shirou's false vision of him. Hell, one of the bad endings involve Shirou becoming Kiritsugu II by making the wrong choice just to make this more obvious (all over HF is like "are you going to be like Kiritsugu or not?" via Illya and Kotomine). Not to mention that, by a narrative standpoint, the other two routes don't resolve Shirou Emiya's issues. FSN progresses with every single route: the presentation of the character (Fate), deeper study of what makes the protagonist thick (UBW), and finally resolve the said issues in the climax (HF).

It's even in the Tiger Dojo. Question routes (Fate, UBW), answer route (HF). HF is the one that resolves Emiya Kiritsugu's dilemna by successfully giving his heir the life Kiritsugu actually dreamed of, deep inside. It's a generational story. That's how the three families issues are also resolved in HF as well.

Now Saber's side is resolved in Fate.

Fate: idealism
UBW: pragmatism
HF: nihilism

Nasu on HF True:

When I finished writing the Saber and Rin route all in one go, part of me thought the game wouldn't be settled unless I flipped it over. As the theme of Fate/stay night, if we assume the Saber route to be posing a question, the Rin route is the answer and the Sakura route is a practical application. In the beginning there were plans for an Illya route, but if we were to add it, the game would have wound up being incredibly huge. So we had this plan to release the Saber route and Rin route as "Fate/stay night", and the Illya route and Sakura route as "Fate/other night". But when we thought of the 8800 yen price, we decided we should include the Sakura route after all, so in the end, we decided to combine the Illya route and Sakura route into one route. So, although it had been finished during 2002, we took more time to reorganize the plot in January or February of the following year.

It (Normal End) was the only conclusion considered at the time. However, after writing about 2/3 of it, I found that the story itself did not allow such a conclusion. After that, I wrote the original conclusion, and then followed the story and write the happy end. Since this was Shirou's tale of happiness after losing so much, even if Saber and Illya were lost, at least he should let Sakura achieve happiness. And this was the conclusion. Even though Sakura indirectly became a mass murderer, there was no reason to deny her of happiness. I came up with this idea that if one were alive, it was not bad to redeem him/herself while looking forward to happiness. Even though this was hypocrisy, I felt that the story itself strongly demanded this possibility. To be honest, it was the first time that I lost to the story I wrote.

Nasu: Yes, its plot was created with porn in mind.

HF is edgy trash

Throwing away your ideals for "muh wormslut" or "muh mind of steel" is as bad as those ideals never getting challenged at all in Fate

UBW has Shiro confront the flaws of his most deeply held beliefs, acknowledge them, but then come to the conclusion "You know what, I LIKE doing this. Even if its merely a coping mechanism for the emptiness inside me it can still mean something real because I want it to mean something. So while I'm going to be more self reflective about this but I refuse to abandon it. Because this is not just who I am, its who I knowingly chose to be"

Also Rin is best heroine

None, he specifically didn't want him to follow up on them.

That is the entire point of that scene in the moonlight where he tells him that in order to save someone, you need to sacrifice another.

nasu means eggplant

Use your brain lad. He would be abandoning his ideal weather he chose to save Sakura or continue pursuing being a hero, because both ways he is choosing not to save someone. His version of being a hero was trying to save everyone, not abandoning the few for the many.

Yeah, UBW did a good job of showing how beautiful his ideal is, but until HF, the only thing that actually tested it was Archer. He could beat Archer fine but what came between his ideal and him in HF was reality, which isn't so easy to beat.

HF is pretty much like succeeding at saving Shirley, so that one.

Shirou already accepted that you can't save everyone. He hates it, but he accepted it. The point of UBW is that even if he knows he can't save everyone, it's not wrong to try.

>He would be abandoning his ideal weather he chose to save Sakura or continue pursuing being a hero
Nope, he was already aware of the limits, though he would always seek a way to save everyone.

Congratulations, you have taste.

All of them because he's happier than Kerry.

Rin is at her best in HF though

This user said it well>Saber route to be posing a question, the Rin route is the answer and the Sakura route is a practical application
UBW finds the answer, that it's worth trying anyway, and HF puts it to the test. And as everyone, including Shirou, knows that succeeding at such an ideal is truly impossible, which is why the answer was to try, not actually accomplish saving everyone, he fails at it as expected

>though he would always seek a way to save everyone
Missing the point. No mater what he did people would have to die.

Either you side with Sakura with the knowledge that more people will die because of her, or you have to kill her to prevent more people dying as a result. There is literally no way to "Save everyone" from that dilema.

Bitch never saved a single person until Shirou

The problem of this path is that it was going to be 2 routes, 1 for Ilya and another for Sakura in a diferent game from FS/N, but instead they shoved both routes into the same, so after a while it becomes a huge mess and it seems like Shirou is being simply dragged by the events rather than taking real decisions like in the previous routes.

Not to mention how early on Sakura seems like the main girl then gets knocked out by Ilya and then right at the end the game goes like "Oh that's right it was Sakura the girl not Ilya"

He literally saved the world by rejecting the grail.

>Bad Ending
Its not a bad ending if Shirou becomes Kiritsugu II.

Besides Kiritsugu II isn't a bad thing. A man is only a man when he sticks to his ideals.

>being a failure shell of man who brings misfortune too anyone he cares about is a good thing
Curious, did you start with FZ?

>Not being happy with the life you live and not holding regrets over your choices.
Did you choose a slut over your own happiness and manhood?

People who want an utopia without conflict. deserve the most painful of deaths, all the suffering builds character, trying to take it away is essentially the same as destroying humanity.

Kiritsugu and Shirou are niggers.

What are you talking about? Kerry's whole like is unhappiness, except for that one scene, and regrets. And since you ignored the question, I'll assume you did start with Zero.

Not him but why does Zero get so much hate? It's just as good as Fate Stay Night if not superior in my opinion.

Ilya_Crying_Face.jpg

Okay, Solomon. Calm down, we get it. You don't like Goetia the true savior of humanity.

It doesn't. Nobody is hating Zero in this thread, just Kiritsugu's ideals.

It's the Zerobabies that get hate, not Zero, usually for being stupid people.

His super hero ideals are complete nonsense and should be discarded. Sacrificing 1 to save 1,000,000 is something that sounds noble, until you realize just how willing all the 1,000,000 are to sacrifice the 1, couching their selfish desire to live in terms of justice, morality, etc.

Sakura is not the best girl or even a particularly good one-- but why should she be? While Rin was spoiled and lived in a mansion, while Saber was protected and became a king, Sakura was cast into a horrible situation from birth and protected/shielded by no one. Sakura's one bright spot, her relationship with Shirou, is also taken from her in the other routes. She might not be best girl, but there are reasons for it, and she did nothing to deserve the hand she was dealt.

Is heroism about saving a million faceless others, or is it about doing whatever it takes to save someone you love? Isn't it also heroic to save Sakura? I think it is, and in fact, it's more heroic because it means going against the will of the many to save the one. The challenge is greater.

You just have to get tested for worms after.

HF is the troo sequel to zero - Neogaf

Reminder that HF Shirou is the true Shirou. If he needed to fight the entire world to save Sakura, he would have.

Wrong, he never saw any of the people he saved until Shirou is what you mean. Sure, most of the people he saved were people at risk, rather than people actually needing someone to save them, but to say he didn't save people when we can see otherwise is downright absurd.

For example, how many people at the airport and the city it's located at did he save by shooting down that airplane full of zombie dead apostole kusks instead of letting it land? could've been one or one thousand. We'll never know, but they were saved.

You're probably just burned out because the first half of the route is only cooking and fucking the educated prostitute. It really makes the decision look like you're thinking with your dick, but it gets better. Also, your choice wasn't just for Sakura. It was for Ilya too, and that's a point many people miss.

>Isn't it also heroic to save Sakura.
Not really. There are countless people born into situations worse than Sakura. You don't see those people trying to exterminate humanity though.

Sakura always had suicide as a way out. When she went to school she always had the chance to run away.

She had two different ways out, but refused to do anything and accept her hell. And you want to let millions who did nothing die for her?

It is the most retarded route. UBW is the one and only best route, though Fate is alright.

>WAAAAAH WHY ISNT SHIROU A STATIC CHARACTER IN EVERY ROUTE

HF is the only route worth reading, the rest of the VN is trash.

Great character or greatest?

>she always had the chance to run away.
Zouken's main worm is literally inside her heart. Funny how people who try to blame Sakura for her situation always turn out to not know shit about the story.

i love how hf has all these little dominos falling into place, small changes that add up to major differences. Shirou choosing to spend more time with Sakura leads to him meeting Zouken. Zouken name dropping the Einzberns leads to Shirou recognizing the name when Illya introduces herself. This makes Shirou hesitate in treating Illya as just an enemy to defeat and he ends up turning down Rin’s offer here. Which in turn leads to Shirou finding out more about Kiritsugu’s connections to Illya and the Einzberns, which causes his relationship with Illya to become completely different from the first two routes.

But back to this. You get so used to having Rin as an ally/mentor in the first two routes that something like this really starts to make hf feel different. Especially compared to Rin’s enemy declerations in ubw which never once felt convincing, this moment where she says it to his face after all that negotiation makes it feel more final. It doesn’t last of course, but this moment has always made me think about a route where Shirou and Rin really do stay enemies and never team up. What would that be like? I think it’d be pretty interesting, and Archer would be thrilled

So we was pretty much a Defender only in his time and not throughout history.

Kerry was a true hero.

Fate route also mentions a good deal of the real Kiritsugu, it's from there that Saber states that Kiritsugu only talked to her 3 times during the 4th war (Shirou assumed it was the 3 command seals) and that he was ruthless and treated everyone as a tool including himself.

HF reveals on Kiritsugu actually feels more unnatural because the game just decided to throw that out early on in the route because you had gotten that knowledge from Fate already, the only natural reveal was why Kiritsugu blew the grail although by Fate reveals about the grail being tainted it had already become obvious why he did it.

It's not really a matter of opinion that saving someone in need is heroic. I don't even like Sakura and have spent days of my life arguing with wormfags who say she did nothing wrong, but you are just being retarded.

Suicide is fine too.

>Isn't it also heroic to save Sakura?

This seems like more of a selfish decision than a heroic one to me.

Ok character as the role he plays in FSN. Terrible person overall though.

Why should an innocent victim have to die? That's about as unheroic as it gets.

That route was to give an answer to the kind of life Shirou Emiya SHOULD live. He had to break free from his father's poisonous shadow and accomplish what he couldn't (destroy All Evils in the World) and obtain the life he wanted deep inside (a life with his one true love, who happens to be a Grail Waifu just like Sakura). He had to find the cure of his 'defect' which was still present in the other two routes, he's just less aware he's an empty man as Kotomine because he didn't bond with him to realize his issues. He did it by losing worthless memories and through death-rebirth anew.

It was to complete the ritual: Heaven's Feel.

In any case, 'Sakura's crimes' are more in her imagination. She tended to blame herself over everything, even her own abuse. Saber is the same as Sakura, someone who carries the blame and would snap (they are very suited as master/servant partners after both of them got blackened).

The Shadow was Avenger (or rather the Grail) consuming people as she slept, using the uncanny compatibility of Matou magic (and imaginary numbers) to make it happen. Avenger was innocent too. Sakura put a stop to this once she realized it by not sleeping again.

She only had control over it during the last days, after she snapped, by going Dark Sakura. The people she killed were: Kotomine Kirei, Zouken Matou, True Assassin, and Shinji Matou (accidentally). What 'crimes' do you speak about?

There is no villain in HF. Everyone is somewhat responsible for what happens. You can even argue that Avenger himself is the most innocent victim of all. He still paid for it.

The True Ending fits in everything.

Because her life is worthless and all she brings to people around her is misfortune. Not the first case, really.

You're not very innocent if your life will cause millions of innocents to die.

Why does Kirei dream about him when knocked out?

>Terrible person.

Hey man, somebody has to be THAT guy.
The only who gets his hands dirty so others don't have to get involved.

He got Shirou involved.

Homolust.

Because Kirei thought Kerry was his soulmate, until he realized it was really Shirou.

He never wanted him to go after his own dream; that's why he never taught him magic. Then even when he did, only the pussy kind.

She's the only one capable of making Shirou experience true happiness for the sake of himself, unlike Rin who can't do shit to stop him from trying to become a superhero.

>millions
Nice meme. She was intending on killing herself to stop Angra Mainyu's birth near the end of the route, by the way.

Each character in FSN has their backstory moment. That was his. They later gave him Fate/Zero to expand on it

He dies on both endings. The Shirou on the true ending is not much different from a puppet. Yeah, "happiness". Even Ilya died. Becoming a real super hero is the closest to happiness Shirou would get.

>how to spot a retard who doesn't know how Touko puppets work
Shirou would never be able to become a superhero, and Archer was the closest he could get. As UBW shows, he clearly regretted it.

It would be one thing if he continued doing what he did after the grail blew up in his face, this is what Shirou would have done because what was important to him was the process instead of the end result, but he didn't. He just game up because his theory of "ends justify the means" blew up with the grail, when he finally realized the end he wanted was not possible.

His ideals are shit anyways, so seeing him throw them aside for a more realistic perspective was a very satisfactory conclusion.

youtube.com/watch?v=8QRBqE9YO_c
I have no clue what happened

The happiness Shirou wanted was the happiness Kerry experienced when saving him. And Shirou got this happiness by saving Sakura.

>he clearly regretted it
>when he says he doesn't have any regrets

Shirou and Archer aren't the same person. Even Archer was saved by Shirou's answer.

Good job calling me a retard over minor details and proving yourself mentally disabled.

>She was intending to killing herself to stop Angry Mainyu
She might have wanted to, but she was never going to go through with it. Plus Angra was stopping her from going through with it.

Nice meme.

Best character Kotomine has best presence in HF so its the best arc.
Prove me wrong

>thinking Touko's body double puppets are like being some marionette puppet
>minor details
Nope, that's just you showing you're a casual who doesn't know shit about the Nasuverse.

>Shirou and Archer aren't the same person.
Nice bait.

>assassin killed lancer
fucking dropped

Archer/UBW > *

On the negative side, I wasn't a huge fan of the Caster conflict. It wasn't bad or uninteresting, just kind of meh. The ending is something that doesn't sit well with me now that I've read HF, but it was agreeable with me before that. As a whole, I thought this route did a good job expanding the boundaries set by Fate while staying consistent with the rules. There were some ambiguous plot points but they seem to have been cleared up by Nasu afterwards.

Literally braindead.

Well once he learned the ending he wanted was only possible if he literally killed, more or less, everyone since the grail isn't as powerful as everyone thinks.

After learning that fact, he refused to let it grant his wish and came to conclusion that all his fighting saved many people but he couldn't save everyone.

The truth sucks.

would have been a nice twist if Gilgamesh helped Shirou and the gang against Sakura/Saber/Berserker

Archer was tired of all the pointless killing after a Defender for so long.

Once you realize it'll never end, why would you want to spend eternity doing it?

I'd rather not exist too.

>Mind of Steel
>bad
That's like your opinion man

If you liked the rest, read HF too. If only for contrast and deeper understanding of Shirou, Rin, Illya and Kotomine as characters.

Archer is still the best version of Emiya Shirou, having reached his ideals, lost them and then despite it all re-realized the beauty in them.

Prisma's Shirous are both faggots. One is a fluffy, shallow harem lead and the other is a brainwashed, shallow housewife who gets side-lined so little girls can fight and die in his stead.

>bad ending
Mind of Steel is not a bad end.
It's just the end of the story, there is no need for anything more.

And to become a complete human once again, like he was before the fire, Shirou had to die again. Face it, there's nothing left of "Emiya Shirou" at the ending of HF.

>unlike Rin who can't do shit to stop him from trying to become a superhero.
Rin never tries to stop him, people who think that's what she ever tried to do completely misunderstood the ending of UBW.

>and Archer was the closest he could get. As UBW shows, he clearly regretted it.
Archer was Wrong, too. Capital W wrong, and he realized what a fuck up he'd become and went back to his afterlife with a smile on his face because He Wasn't Wrong.