On the basis of the negotiations currently taking place between the two countries, Greece and FYROM...

On the basis of the negotiations currently taking place between the two countries, Greece and FYROM, I am curious to know what Sup Forums thinks about it.

After the fall of Yugoslavia, five countries declared their independence. One of them was FYROM which was recognized as Macedonia by 133 countries, US and Russia among them. They claim Macedonians weren't Greeks and that they are the true descendants of Alexander the Great.

Are you against the fact that he and Macedonians were Greek? Are FYROM's claims a falsification of history?

US and EU are putting pressure on Greece to solve the issue since they want FYROM to join NATO and the Union as soon as possible fearing Russia's influence in Balkans (see latest news regarding Serbia) but Greece can user veto once again.

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They've decied to call themselves "New Macedonia", what a gay name
>archive.is/LkCX1

Only redneck greeks deny that Matsedonia is on former Macedonian soil

Macedonian tribes were thracians in origin, with greek colonies on the coast who imposed the Argead dinasty as the rulers. They are a mix of thracians and greeks, at least thats what the old macedonians were. If they don`t recognize the greeks it means they claim themselves as thraco-slavs, which is what bulgarians are too.

what are the new macedonians , then?

Macedonia belongs to Greater Albania.

Slavic Macedonians would have been a nice name. In any case Albanians are the real problem.

Macedonian tribes were just one of many Greek tribes. In the end, Greece is just a country of many different Greek tribes. The Macedonians, the Athenians, the Spartans and so on. A bit like Germany is in the end just a country made up of different German tribes.

What we see between Greece and FYROM is as if the Czech Republic would rename themselve Bavaria and would claim Bavarian history. They shouldn't call themselve Macedonia because in the long run there is the chance that someday they would want to claim the actual Macedonia.
>Hey, you accepted that we're the real Macedonians now give us back our rightful clay

If you're confused, what can we say? My opinion, seeing the history of the last 200 years in the area, a mix of all countries around you: Bulgarian, Greek, Albanian, Serbs. Other ancient ethnic groups like Aromanians (Vlachs) either migrated to Romania early last century or were completely assimilated. Other groups known as pests (turks, gypsies) multiply.

In the end if the majority really identify as Macedonians and not secretly as one of the others, a nation can emerge. Pushing towards direct Macedonian heritage with such much mixing is a stretch.

My thoughts on the matter are ones of sympathy.
In the aftermath of the First Balkan War, Serbia, as a result of the Treaty of London, were denied their recent gains in present-day Albania, due to external pressures from A-H and Italy. Due to this, and the desire to not come out of the war empty handed, Serbia decided to attempt to retain Vardar Macedonia (FYROM), a land with a majority of Bulgarians, resulting in the Second Balkan War.
After this, as a means of eliminating seperatism, Serbia used propaganda, attempting to convince the people they were Serbs, and the land was South Serbia.
After WWII, Tito rose to power, and as a means of creating stability in Yugoslavia, he enforced his dogma of 'Strong Yugoslavia, Weak Serbia', and seperated the former lands of the Kingdom of Serbia, forming SAP Kosovo, SAP Vojvodina, SR Montenegro, and SR Macedonia.
SR Macedonia's case was interesting, as while the others had either ethnic (Albanian and Hungarian), or historical (Montenegrin) bases for seperation from Serbia, Tito could not admit those within SR Macedonian were Bulgarian due to the standoff between Stalinist Bulgaria, and that it would fuel seperatism and irredentism. So instead, due to their geographic location, he said they were Macedonian, simultaneously diffusing a Bulgarian threat, while also promoting Tito's own claim on Pirin and Aegean Macedonia.
When FYROM declared independence, there was no struggle, and as such, no independence heroes. So they tapped into their fabricated history for significant figures, resulting in the appropriation of Greek, Bulgarian, and Serbian figures as part of their national heritage.
I heard 'Nova Macedonia' is going to be the new name.

70% of Greeks don't want FYROM's new name to have the word "Macedonia" in it.
One of the 2 parties that make up the state doesn't want FYROM's new name to have the word "Macedonia" in it.
The biggest opposition party (ND) doesn't want FYROM's new name to have the word "Macedonia" in it.
Most of the smaller parties in parliament don't want FYROM's new name to have the word "Macedonia" in it.

There is no inside pressure for the issue to be resolved now since we have nothing to gain from it while on the other hand FYROM is bleeding bad from having their EU and NATO applications vetoed by as.

So as it stands right now if Suriza give the go ahead for the new name to be "New Macedonia" or "North Macedonia" or "Slavo-Macedonia" (the 3 names put forth by FYROM) they will neither get the vote passed through parliament and pretty much destroy any slim hope they have of getting re-elected.

Who cares about soil. The people make the country. What modern Macedonians have to do with Alexander the Great?

>t. autistic homo alboroach larping as Bavarian nobility

At least Slavo-Macedonia would denote a difference between them and Ancient Macedonians.
What might be a name without Macedonia in it? Vardar?

"Macedonian" claims to descent from the true Macedonians of Alexander the great, are falsified.
The Macedonians of Alexander the Great's time (4th century BC) were ethnolinguistic brothers to the Greeks.
Slavs didn't settle in that area of the Balkans until 6th century AD.
And yet these fake slavic "Macedonians" steal the demonym so that they can lay claim to a greater area of historic, real Macedonian, territory which rightfully belongs to Greece.

There is only one thing for it. Extirpate the fake Macedonians, relocate them in Bulgaria, and reclaim stolen clay for Greece.

The name doesn't really matter if they still claim history which isn't there. Macedonia already exists and it's a place in Greece. My Grandmother comes from there, the slavs should search for their own history to find a name for themselve instead of trying to claim the history of others.

Out the 3 names Slavo-Macedonia was the most contentious for them internally given that a large part of the country and one of their major parties are Albanian so clearly the term slav doesn't represent them.

If this whole ordeal recently has taught me anything is that in this one issue Albanians have been a boon to Greece instead of the usual rat thieves they are. Hell their albanian VP even went as far as to say a few weeks ago that if the President doesn't after all these years drop this whole Macedonia name-history ordeal and choose another name so that the country can finally enter the EU, he and a large part of the government will resign in protest.

FYROM is a meme country, an I sure love me a good meme. Also fuck greeks. Slavic macedonians are 10x whiter than those turkroaches larping as greeks

Since the greeks have a region called Macedonia, the bulgarians in disguise will be calling themselves New Macedonia.

Give back Danzig and stop stealing cars.

Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo and Montenegro belongs to Greece and should be Hellenized.

Give back my gold, moutainigger

This

I already deal with this from other Greeks. Macedonia is a geographic region not isolated to Greece.
OP's pic, the dotted line, that is the entire region of Macedonia.
As for the history part. it's kinda hard for them to do, given they're Bulgarians in denile, who then claim those figures were never Bulgarian to begin with.
Ah right, they even made Albanian an official language a week or so back. The name dispute also inhibits them from joining NATO.

denial*
The fuck was I thinking.

And greece belongs to Turkey, we can play this game forever. You either completly balkinize or join into major players, there is no silver line

soon

>more than 3 moreta

thats pretty haram....

>They claim Macedonians weren't Greeks and that they are the true descendants of Alexander the Great.
they are serbs and bulgars. speaking weird mix of both that sounds like bulgar. also they are idiotic to mention alexander. macedonia is a greek province, they can get a new name like gondor or something.

The Former Yugoslav Republic of Alexander?

Most of the names in your map are Greek, you stupid fucking retard.

Macedonia is a GREEK name, belonging to us Greeks only. End of story.

Yes there is a silver lining, people should just admit what they really are. Balkans is filled with Latins, Slavs and Greeks. There is no reason to uphold meme nationalities that aren't even remotely different from one another.

They are literally countries and "cultures" that were created as geopolitical tools against empires and nations in the region. If you read a lot of history and specialize in the Balkans during the 1600's and onward you'll see that

The Balkans is not like the rest of Europe (Scandinavia excluded). The only reason these nations exist is because of political anger and war. It's ridiculous.

They could pull of a name like Gondor easily

jealous ?

I agree with you, my point is that "Greece" and greek identity are as fabricated as FYROM or Kosovo

If you lived here you would actually see the difference. But you dont so you dont know shit, cuck boi.

That was literally 9 centuries before you fake "Macedonian" Slavs even arrived in the Balkans.
That Macedonian empire was a GREEK empire.

Thanks for proving my point even more with more Greek names.

I welcome our macedonian overlords.
Hail Aleksandar Makedonski

>(Scandinavia excluded)
Why?

FYROMians are brainwashed slavs.

>t.Beton Kamenov

...

actually it was a persian empire in all but name

You are right about it being fabricated, especially in modern times. But that's really all fine as long as it incorporates all other nations in the area. It's so stupid to have so many countries who all claim the same "We Wuz" story.

I've been stationed in the Balkans for a Long time, the real Balkans. Where war and famine was. Not in your Mini-Istanbul.

The only difference is religious identity and the social hatred. People step outside themselves to be different just because they don't want to be associated with one another even though they share a common history and worship heroes who were mixed with one another. Scanderbeg being my favorite. It's fun to see Albanians and Serbs loving a product of an Albanian King and a Serbian mother who was Orthodox, Muslim and Catholic, while trying to nationalize the shit out of him.

Because Scandinavia is also the same thing in many respects. We draw our national identities from the medieval period but prior to that we were very similar and still are in many regards.

im guessing he is reffering to these new "countries" and that would not include bulgaria stoichkov, you are kinda known.

how was it a greek empire, and not macedonian, when it was named Macedonia ?
hail
you're brainwashed macedonians

It was Greek AND Macedonian. But it was actually Macedonian. You AREN'T Macedonian, you're a freeloading Slav.

i'm macedonian :)

you're butthurt paki, your ancestors got conquered by Aleksandar Makedonski

>Extirpate the fake Macedonians, relocate them in Bulgaria

NO. Do you have any idea how autistic these people are? They routinely come to Bulgarian websites to say some retarded shit like "Bulgarians are Tatars" despite the fact that we share a common history and speak the same language.

I had to text some girl from FYROM in English on Tinder one time, because she didn't want to use her own language. Tito turned macedonians into a handicapped people.

Chwała Aleksandrowi Macedońskiemu

Our languages were still different tho, east & west Norse + Gothic. Sure, we're similar, but I never think we were similar enough to merit a single Scandinavian country.

I think noone outside of the balkans know what the fuck is going on there and that you are the perfect example why it is bad to "balkanize" a region (ie catalunha)

The only name I recognize is "Vardar Macedonia" and it's the only name that makes both Gepgraphical and Historical sense

lol no

>you're brainwashed macedonians

Lets forget the Bulgarian/Macedonian relations for a moment. You are SLAVIC. You speak a slavic language, you use the cyrillic alphabet, your entire culture is slavic. How can you possibly be a descendent of ancient Macedonia?

бyгapи тaтapи ! U w U

...

I'm not a fuckin paki tho.

>Where war and famine was
So you basically prove my point that you know very little outside of the specific part where you were "stationed" at.
Dont pretend to know where war and famine happened, tho you got one part right, our cultures have been made from historical wars with one another and born of hate as you said.
That will never change as it is our cultural identity that defines who we are.

Then why are you using a Paki proxy

This region is historically known as Stara Srbija (Old Serbia). We belong together makedonci you know it's true.

You're half right. The propaganda wasn't to turn them into Serbians, it was to convince them they're not Bulgarian. They spent a lot of time and energy into convincing them they were the true descendents of Alexander.

"Bulgarians by blood, Macedonians by Tito" as the saying goes.

that's because you are different people after all

tatars btfo

how can greeks even compete?

the UK is full of polaks too. for all you know I could be one of you.

...

The Balkans belong to Serbs and Greeks, everyone else is a meme nation with identity issues.

We can always overcome language barriers, you could do it trough a union and "fix" the linguistic problems. Even though the languages are different they're really not that different.

Yes but your cultural identity is literally ottoman-byzantine at its core. Cultures are regional and often unaffected by languages and religions unless religion chooses to wipe culture out completely as was the case in Scandinavia.

Why should Macedonia even exist if it's Bulgarian/Greek at its core? It makes no sense.

New Macedonians (gay name btw) are butthurt larping as ancient balcanic civilisations. What losers.

It's known as that in Serbia maybe. I've never heard of that name before. Before the Ottomans came that land was ruled by Bulgarians for centuries.

kek

Ah well I mistakenly concluded to that part, considering how Tito ran with it.

What are you trying to prove?

Nobody cares about Bulgaria.

Palace of Aleksadar Makedonski in his capital, Skopje

You'd be smart enough to figure it out if you weren't a Pole.

>Typical hoe trying to get full responsibility for the kid in a divorce

Are you forgetting something Helas?

Macedonia the country and this whole fake identity was made up by Tito so he could eventually claim and take over (the true) Greek Macedonia in order to gain access to the Mediterranean sea. Macedonia is a made up country that is closer to Bulgaria a thousand times more than Ancient Macedonia.

Bitch i see you gathering Russian mercenaries what's up with that shit?

Palace of Aleksadar Makedonski in his capital, Skopje

fake news

Looks cool, is it worth a visit? How does it compare to Zagreb or Dubrovnik?

It started in the 19th Century.

>Uses Illyrian, greek and romanian pagan symbols.

Aleksandar Makedonski himself

Bulgarians are the most level-headed, respectable southern Slavs.
Former Yugoslavs act like complete spackers.

FYROMians are moronic gypsies, the absolute trash of Europe together with Albanians. The ancient Macedonians were Greek and spoke a dialect that was related to the Doric dialects of west Greece. FYROM's people is Slavic, and Slavs first came to that area about 1000 years after Alexander the Great.

because you let in 40000 mujahedeen into Europe, Ernade.

How can I learn about the history of the balkans from an unbiased and interesting source?

People care about Serbia even less.

bait and a turkish mudslime subhuman,welcome to the balkans

Read about it from everyone's point of view and then try to find the common denominator. If you do it correctly you will find that Serbs were right.

t. never had an empire ; D

Yugoslavia had acces to sea via Dalmatia, no need for expansion to Solun in southern macedonia
Zagreb and Dubrovnik weren't seats of world spanning empire. Dubrovnik was capital of small (((merchant))) republic and Zagreb is like any central-eastern european capital

This is simply not true. We are relevant.

Croatia is Balkan.

It's ok.
Only things worth seeing are either in Skopje, Ohrid, or Bitola.
Pic related is the view from Samuel's Fortress in Ohrid.

>an unbiased and interesting source

Lmao good luck with that. The only thing Balkan people will agree on is that t*rks are shit.