THE MORAL ARGUMENT AGAINST EATING MEAT AND DAIRY

CAN YOU COUNTER THIS???

Argument for animal moral value:
> - Humans are of moral value.
> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
Therefore without establishing the absence of such trait in animals, we contradict ourselves by deeming animals valueless.

Argument for veganism from animal moral value:
> - Animals are of moral value.
> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to consider anything short of non-exploitation to be an adequate expression of respect for human moral value.
Therefore without establishing the absence of such a trait in animals, we contradict ourselves by considering anything short of non-exploitation (veganism) to be an adequate expression of respect for animal moral value.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat
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Never post here again.

>THE MORAL ARGUMENT AGAINST EATING MEAT AND DAIRY
Oh, okay, how will you stop animals from eating meat?

Animals don't have a moral agency, we do.

Morality isn't real, moron

The LORD gave us animals to eat.

I'm hungry...counterpoint that faggot.

I reject all your pre-suppositions.

Might makes right faggot.

...

If animals are incapable of morality then we have a duty to punish them by eating them to exact justice for the privilige of eating other living things just as i would expect justice for also taking lives, whether plant or animal, for my own benefit

What about lab-grown meat?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

As a teenager I hated vegetarians. I hated their loaded save-the-world agenda. I despised them because they all seemed meek, hippie, beta losers with a meek, hippie, beta ideology to go along.

Then I started traveling and by visiting strange, smelly places, gave me perspective, things changed. Been an unrepented soyboy for 22 years.

>atheist vegan liberals
>presenting a moral argument
Where is that one smuggy...

Cultured meat grown in labs will solve the factory farming problem.

Most life consumes other life to live. To do so is okay, but if done right. Kill only what you must, don't waste anything, be respectful of nature and life, keep ecosystems in balance, and don't waste the life you purchased with the consumption of another's. Lastly, be ready for when it's your turn to be eaten or simply die, we must all go some day.

How do you become vegan without turning into a soyboy?

Where the fuck are you getting atheism from?

I am a vegetarian. I think veganism is unsustainable and out of reach for the average population.

>Humans are of moral value
False premise. .. i stopped reading.

There is nothing that inherently hunts and eats us.
>One day vegans and all their ilk will be on the menu.
>Might makes right and all that good stuff.

I think there is an ethical way to eat eggs and milk products if the cows are not industrial farmed.
It's like fucking pets running around and minding their business.

Everything else is fucking evil and you all know it.

Oh look! This same fucking post again.

We’ve already had this discussion in the past and you got BTFO. I’m not going to bother wasting my time again since it’s now blatantly apparent that you’re a shill and this is nothing more than a slide thread to distract from the fact that Hillary and the Deep State are going down for Uranium One, among many other scandals. Sage this shit in all fields. There’s no point in trying to discuss this topic with him. He won’t concede or even entertain any rational arguments.

Christians (the people who founded your country) have a scriptural approved mandate to eat meat.

Nah, you're just a soyboi libcuck who's gf has you whipped AF.

> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
incorrect.
animals lack the ability to adhere to or understand the social contract. and are therefore not members of society.

Triggered vegan is that you?

I literally don't care. Sure, you shouldn't needlessly abuse animals, but I have no issue with farming them for food. Who cares?

>the moral argument
Sorry, morals are subjective, sweetie.

>Christians (the people who founded your country) have a scriptural approved mandate to eat meat.
i.e. a lie written by Jews.

...

Biblical ones aren't subjective. Atheists dont have morals of any kind.

Yeah well here's a moral counter-argument: I don't care about "muh poor animals". They're fucking animals. That's not to say they deserve disdain or cruelty, but it's hard to feel sorry for a slaughtered animal when it has no concept of a self or even any idea what's happening until right before it dies. I enjoy eating meat and I'm not going to be all bleeding heart about it, or a hypocrite who claims to feel sorry for slaughtered animals but then eats meat anyway.

That being said, from a non-moral standpoint I gave up red meat a while ago and honestly I think it was for the better. I just feel healthier.

The trait missing is they aren't human.

Mythology has no bearing on real life, sweetie.

>CAN YOU COUNTER THIS???
>Argument for animal moral value:
>> - Humans are of moral value

yes i can.

having 23 chromosomes is of no intrinsic value.

done.

"abandon 2,000 years of white culture and identity goyim, cuz reasons"

> There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
they are different species

>Who cares?
Farming animals is the biggest source of deforestation, land use, and pollution. White people should be responsible stewards of the environment. We are not uncivilized savages who turn our countries into filthy ugly sprawling shitholes.

So thanks for admitting you lack all morality... Rendering all points made in the OP null.

I suppose if you exclude it being the foundation of society you are correct.

>but it's hard to feel sorry for a slaughtered animal when it has no concept of a self or even any idea what's happening until right before it dies

Guessing you're including your pet cat in that. And also young children have no self awareness and worse environmental perception than animals, so you'd be okay if a few of them were slaughtered.

The fact we farmed them into existence for the sole purpose of food production is the reason they are valueless on a scale of morality. Even if we didn't farm animals for food, hunting, killing and eating still wouldn't be morally wrong it's the fundamental driving force behind our getting to this point in history. face it faggot, humans eat meat. deal with it or kys.

My morality is objective and driven from religion and not subjective to the feeble human and what he deems right of wrong.
“Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): ‘I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maytah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork); for that surely, is impure or impious (unlawful) meat (of an animal) which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah (or has been slaughtered for idols, or on which Allaah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But whosoever is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits; (for him) certainly, your Lord is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful’”

[al-An’aam 6:145]

>muh desert cult
Ummmm, no sweetie.

2000 years is more than long enough. The artistic, literary, and cultural elements of European Christianity can endure without us believing and following the scripture like retards.

Are you aware that both Christianity and Marxism were created by the same people (Jews) and are derived from the same fundamental moral principles, i.e. weakness over strength, and the glorification of suffering and victims?

Moral value is subjective

Thread terminated

Slaughtering a pet cat is different from slaughtering livestock. There's no point, it would just be for cruelty. Also, nice strawman with the child argument, but I'll indulge you anyway: a human child will grow into a human adult. An animal will stay the same forever. See the difference?

im not ever christian. I've just read more books than you.

>hurr durr I get my nutritional advice from a book written 2000+ years ago
So you think that everyone not using the Bible in moral arguments are atheist?

>im not even* christian.
fixed

Isaiah's prophesy was fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Christ's new covenant lifted the mosaic law restriction that your Koran plagiarized (badly).

>lolbertarian
>I've just read

wait, so your religion doesn't forbid eating human flesh?

>we did this!

You had no part in it. You just grabbed a shrinkwrapped chicken off the shelf in tescos and think that makes you some prime hunter. Fuck off.

> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.

>What is awareness of ourselves and the nature of the world we live in.
>What is high intelligence
>What is free will
Umm, try again sweetie.

>thinking I was talking about myself personally.

being this much of a brainlet

There is no such thing as objective morality.

>and you got BTFO.
Is this the power of cognitive dissonance?
>He won’t concede or even entertain any rational arguments.
Kek, I'll bite which "rational arguments" have I not entertained?

Sorry boy, your just a bluepilled normie that is fooled by the animal agriculture jew.

Doubling back on yourself now?

>That's not to say they deserve disdain or cruelty, but it's hard to feel sorry for a slaughtered animal when it has no concept of a self or even any idea what's happening until right before it dies.

So a cat, a cow, a sheep, a doggo who cares? And some countries eat cats and dogs yet hypocrites pretend that it's cruel just because we find those animals "cute"

fun fact: atheism is the fastest shrinking religion in the world

I think its because of your hats.

fun facts: Yahweh is not real and a minimalist state cannot work.

Yes that's me

>a human child will grow into a human adult
And?

How about we use a 75 year old with late stage alzheimers then, they have lost self awareness and not realise what's happening around them, again by your rationale we can slaughter them morally

> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
Incorrect. As long as we are of the human species, we will consider ourselves to be of higher value than animals. Animals lack the trait of being part of the human species.

Like I said, slaughtering a pet is different than slaughtering livestock. Livestock are bred for the sole purpose of being slaughtered. People buy pets as companions, so slaughtering them would simply be an act of pointless cruelty.

That being said, is there any difference "biologically" between them? No. At the end of the day they're all animals, but there is a point to some of their deaths - that is, providing food for humans. If some cultures kill and eat cats or dogs, that's their choice and is no less valid than killing cows or pigs.

>Yahweh is not real
dont care, I'm not religious. doesnt change the fact that it is the basis for society.
> a minimalist state cannot work.
I'm not a minarchist, I'm a iiberal. hense the flag.
like I said earlier, I've read more books than you.

not saying Hitler was right about everything but he was definitely ahead of the curve on issues like animal rights and smoking

most people on here who think they're so cool by slamming vegetarians / vegans have no idea what actually goes on in the food industry

they've been brainwashed by tv commercials showing a happy family farm with a barn. those don't really exist anymore, at least not as major suppliers. Everything is factory farms now. It's fucking ridiculous how awful it is.

but since these faggots will never watch an expose on this stuff ("Earthlings" is a pretty good eye-opener) there's no use discussing it with them. It's like trying to argue with niggers about police shootings when they deny the black crime rate.

>CAN YOU COUNTER THIS???
Yes.

I don't give a fuck about the suffering of animals.
I don't even care about the suffering of non-whites and unless you are my friend or a member of my family do I care enough to actually do something about your suffering.

>> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
Of course there is.
In my personal view you being non-whites makes you less valuable then most animals.

Liberals are Minarchists, sweetie. I don't think you can read at all.

> If some cultures kill and eat cats or dogs, that's their choice and is no less valid than killing cows or pigs.

So a person of a different species should be exploited? AKA bring back slavery amirite?

So a person without awareness of themselves and the nature of the world we live in, high intelligence and free will should be exploited?

>Animals are valueless.
Said no one ever, in fact, one of their main values is food for other animals.

Avoid all forms of soy. Nuts have plenty proteins, eat fruits and vegetable, and you barely lack anything. (B11 vitamin supplements)

I know exactly what the inside of a meat factory looks like. I still want my fucking steak.

Why not? Would you want to live that way? Can that even be called living? You're just an empty shell, a husk that was once human, but the human part is long gone. I have a relative with severe dementia who lives in a care home, she's completely lost it but she's not even the worst one there, there are people in there who may as well be dead. All they do is sit vacantly in one spot all day, almost totally unresponsive to any stimulus. They're like corpses that have been propped up in chairs.

human races are not different species

fake news.
source me or continue to be btfo.

plants have feelings too you racist faggot

I guess you missed the part about "and eat", not "shoot with a crossbow and drive away for the lulz".

>> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.

They lack the trait of being a human.

>> - There is no trait absent in animals which if absent in humans would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.

They lack the trait of being human.

>So a person of a different species should be exploited? AKA bring back slavery amirite?
Races are not different species.

>AKA bring back slavery amirite?
No, bringing non-whites into white countries is a terrible idea, slavery was a mistake and caused a significant amount of suffering for whites.

>don't eat food
Great argument

See: The US Constitution

using bias one sided documentaries to validate your views without doing any independent research of your own is why everyone dismisses vegans as bandwagoning retards.

These faggot soyboys who act all high and mighty because they watched Food Inc. on Netflix are the fucking worst. You're not special because you know how the food industry works. Literally every single person understands how it works and we don't care. Can you not comprehend that?

a meat factory =/= factory farm

I hope somebody will drive you into the middle of huge forest and then let's see if you can stay alive as a Vegan.

Veganism is dependent on society and the comfort it provides, never take those comforts for granted. You may loose them some day and be in disadvantaged situation.

What about for other purposes besides food? Like wanting the fur?

You practically tipped on me, but if you aren't Christian and live in that Fla you're either an invader or a heritical apostate.

so you're saying you will not use modern medicine if you are sick or injured?

broke your legs in an accident? well too bad nigger, hospitals are dependent on modern society and the comfort it provides, go die in the forest instead

>meatfags will defend this

this. you couldn't even scavenge enough calories from wild plant sources to prevent yourself starving to death. the only reason vegans can exist is because we live in a society with huge agriculture industries.

Sure, although doing it while the animal is alive is again a pointless act of cruelty.

So your argument boils down to "Eating meat is bad because sub-humans torture animals"?

Who said anything about medicine?
I do not take it for granted as well if that's what you try to imply.

My point still stands, in distress, vegans will probably die.

Your shitty non-argument doesn't put steak on my fucking plate.

Let me tell you something, you only THINK you're super enlightened and that you're the only person to have discovered the truth. Everyone fucking knows what these places look like, they're just not little bitches. Animal life does not have the same worth as human life.

the US constitution makes no assertions as to limit the size of government and the only statements which limit its scope are the positive assertions limiting its encroachment onto the rights of man and the states. Which again are not limited in size or scope by the US constitution.

maybe you should read it, its really not long.

It seems inefficient, but aside from that?
Did they eat the meat? If not it was a waste of time.

what pisses me off about vegans is how their priorities are determined by what makes them look good and feel nice rather than what actually helps save animals and their habitats

if you wanna do just that buy a plot of rainforest to save it from deforestation that'll save more animals from certain death than you eating soy and carrots all life long

>but what if i do both
no vegan ever does they just bitch moan and whine about animal cruelty and have like 5 mutilated fucked up pet dogs at home they stole from some russian basement breeding operation which does fuckkkk alllllll for the vast, vast majority of animals and their plight it's just moral masturbation and you seeking emotional support from creatures that you have made utterly dependent on you

factory farms are not designed to prevent the animals from suffering, they are designed to maximize profits, which is one of the many reasons people decide to go vegan / vegetarian

no, the argument is to reduce animal suffering wherever possible

many would not be vegan / vegetarian if the food industry wasn't so cruel