Fuck roads, can a libertarian tell me how sewage works in their utopia?
>inb4 we can just have 12 sewage systems under the city
We all know thats not going to happen. Tell me markets that have a barrier to entry hundreds of millions of dollars high can work
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>treated as property violations
That explains nothing
This doesn't have anything to do with externalities idiot
>Also that video
Getting beyond the fact it doesn't even address positive externalities how do you internalise externalities like smoking, fat consumption or inefficient land use? These are all examples of people doing retarded shit with their own property that leads to sub-optimal outcomes without violating anyone's property rights.
what's wrong with leach fields?
I pay people to take my shit away. They get rich doing that service well and I don't have a shit filled house.
In the middle of NYC? Whose land are you going to appropriate for this? What happenes when the guy who owns the leach field decides to double the amount he charges per ton of shit? Set up ANOTHER field, in the city? Or do you think people will start dumping their turds in teh river or on the street instead of paying over the odds?
In what a truck? I think you know thats not a serious solution to this, carting everyones shit away would be incredibly expensive and probably lead to spread of disease given you have to live around your shit until the weekly truck comes past to collect.
Who owns the septic system?
And how does the market produce competition? You can't select different sewage removal providers through the singular infrustructure
>Living in lolbertarian paradise
>Everyone uses my McSewage treatment facility
>*hand rubbing*
>Decide to charge 10 times as much as usual
>No one can do anything about it
>I'm an incredible wealth creator
>They should be grateful
>All the infrastructure is built into everyone's homes
>No easy solution for them other than paying, tough luck buckos
>Citizens refuse to pay in protest
>I turn off the sewage plant
>Entire city filling up with sewage
Lolbertarians can deny the fact that poo in the loo sewage system is the lolbertarian system.
>all of these examples
I'm not seeing the big issue with those examples
Sub optimal outcomes exist everywhere all of the time retard, most of which involve the government
>Decide to charge 10 times as much as usual
>No one can do anything about it
and where do you think jewish pogroms came from?
>All the infrastructure is built into everyone's homes
>No easy solution for them other than paying, tough luck buckos
>Citizens refuse to pay in protest
>I turn off the sewage plant
>Entire city filling up with sewage
or you will just lose your house for not paying rent. just like you do now
To answer the question for real though, private sewage exists and getting it from one place to the other can just be a requirement for the area you live in, like a larger hoa
Also libertarianism isn't anarchy, but I answered like it was because you're stupid
magic faeries take all the shit away
the same way anything works in a libertarian state
>I'm not seeing the big issue with those examples
The price of a cigarette/fatty or sugary food without excise tax wouldn't nearly reflect actual societal costs in terms of health
Land taxes discourage the poor use of land (and are non-distortionary)
>private sewage exists
With price controls and subsidies guaranteed by the state*
>actual societal cost in terms of health
I don't think you understand what a libertarian society is
Your health is Not being pooled with others
Also most of the damage of fat people comes from suger and hfcs being subsidized. Cigarettes don't need to be taxed for people to avoid them anyway
>poor use of land
This is only a problem if youre a leftist with high time preference. Over centuries land like this gets bought if used inefficiently
>it wouldn't exist otherwise
Sure thing retard
Use it as fertilizer. Duh.
Thats literally all growing soil is.
Well ok then just say that you don't believe in all externalities, don't say that the problem of externalities is solved by private courts.
>Over centuries land like this gets bought if used inefficiently
Why not just encourage people who sit on land because they're either unmotivated or decide that renting, improvement or sale is not worth the effort to put their land towards a productive use?
Sewage would still exist, there'd just be no to little competition.
I didn't say that
>why not encourage
Where is the need, rather than the want
And again, a good portion of libertarians are in favor of the state being able to have some tax on land
>there's just be little to no competition
Relative to now? That sound a bit absurd
To think that this was once AltHype. I suppose men can change.
It's called a septic tank you retard.
>I didn't say that
Ok you don't believe in correcting all externalities
>Relative to now? That sound a bit absurd
Currently your sewage is either handled by a state run enterprise or a privately run enterprise that is price controlled. I'll take that over unregulated sewage companies charging slightly less than what it takes to install and operate a septic tank.
Not really viable within city limits
>Where we're going, we won't need city limits.jpg
Septic tanks
Why don't we just pay contractors directly? I mean the mayor doesn't drain septic tanks himself.
Why would they offer an agreeable price if they're the only game in town?
Why not?
Because prices in monopolistic markets are set to the detriment of consumers.
Why is there a monopoly?
There's high barriers to entry in establishing sewer networks. You need pipes, treatment centres etc.
Even if you were to somehow establish some competition there'd still be a large degree of monopoly. There simply won't ever be enough sewage firms such that any single sewage company couldn't exercise control over the market price.
Libertarian does not mean what people keep pushing.
Government is a necessary evil. The Difference is I am not Forced to pay taxes I pay taxes of my own choice i could go work under the table but that would not yield good results. I signed the social contract and choose to have my taxes go to Luxury's like Police and fire departments Roads. Government run by the people for the people. we make choices to make our lives better or worse. I own my own house three cars and live a pretty comfortable life. i worked hard and live the life i wanted. No form of government or political practice is perfect but we will as humans attempt to find the better time and time again. Pic related its one of my cars
What led to that point?
>thinking cities would look the same in ancapistan
Also, if people get stuck on questions like this, there is no hope for them. I've also come to terms that society is too stupid to function under anarcho-capitalism. Just like large degrees of freedoms, both political and person don't work in African Nations. White people just aren't smart enough on average to be responsible with that much freedom. They need a big brother state to tell them what to do and what not to do.
Just like how people smoke cigarettes today, do drugs, and drive drunk. All incredibly stupid things to do.
People are 100% in control of the market. Not the corporations. It's the people who decide what the market offers them by using their wallets and money wisely. But today, people buy crap, like Hyundai's, and this fuels the cheap car market. If they wanted quality vehicles that lasted beyond their warranty period, they would stop buying cheap shit and the markets would be forced to adapt, or go out of business. This can be applied to anything the market offers. From houses to food.
Maybe if we just do Anarcho-Capitalism, after a couple thousand years of natural selection where stupid people systematically eliminate themselves from the gene pool, it will finally work.
What point?
Its not difficult to build an individual cistern, which a truck comes ans empties at the competeing waterworks. Cleans it, or perhaps they even pay to pick it up and sells it to a farmer.
Nothing wrong with shitting in the water supply.
Just redirect all the sewer pipes to India. They won't mind.
add bacteria and aerate it. Compost tea. Pump it up to the tops of building and use gravity to feed all the plants growing on the sides of buildings.
You could probably boil it and collect the steam and recycle the water.. filter it etc. Make fertilizer out of the dehydrated waste.
Hire jews to figure out how to sell it.
> Someone sees they can make money by making their own sewage plant
> Start charging less than jew face McJew
> jew face McJew now has to offer their services at a competitive price otherwise they'll go bankrupt
wew
A HOA could own the pipes for their area of houses. That could flow into a larger pipe system owned by another company. There, computers could sort the shit by biometrics towards whatever treatment plan the customer subscribes to.
>could
Actually, everyone goes back to having cesspools and similar collection sites on property. Different companies compete to take your shit and piss away to treatment centers. The treatment centers make money by filtering out the high value items in the collected mess.
Keep in mind, there are a lot of valuable hormones and minerals in human waste, solid an liquid. Most places in the modern world have zero incentive to go after them because waste handling is already settled there.
There wont be sewage. Everyone will have an outhouse and a well
Certainly a better solution than most proposed. My main problems are:
1. Whatever monospony the HOA has would be dwarfed the the monopoly of the sewage firm(s)
2. Sewage is critical infrastructure, breaking a HOA's monospony will be pretty easy. If the HOA refuses to pay increased prices the sewage company needs to sacrifice a months revenue at most before everyone under the HOA is living in their own shit. The HOA would either concede to the higher price or fall apart as individual homeowners opted to organise a contract with the sewage company or switch cartel allegiance.
This is only really practical outside cities. People can't live within proximity to shit. Also the process of using trucks to remove waste is really inefficient compared to pipes.
perhaps what youre saying is that if everyone starts owning self sustaining property, you cant have too many people owning property in one spot.
well that makes sense, i suppose a libertarian city cant be a metropolis
The pipe system could be diverted into a local sewage treatment system if the companies got too aggressive. But if the IoT (internet of toilets) is built up out of multiple companies, there is less room for that type of monopolization.
> sub-optimal outcomes without violating anyone's property rights.
What I love most about socialists is how they talk of externalities as "sub-optimal" and so they suggest to let big daddy government take over. What if rich people spend their money on stupid shit?? With my plan you can arrange sub-optimal outcomes AND violate property rights at the same time!
>How do people coordinate sewage?
>I know, get guns and force everyone to follow your plan
>Which plan? Well the optimal one of course.