Why in the world is fusion power always 20 years away? It is like a Mars landing, always 20 or 30years away. Never coming closer.
Has humanity stopped making advances in tech or are there things that were just always technological pipe dreams? Why can't we actually invest in stuff like robotics or a Mars landing or fusion energy or new space craft propulsion? Every time people say "ohhh, no, this is just for private companies to do, let us just give them taxmoney" but then nothing happens. And sometimes they do large publically run projects and they too get fucked up by people's special interests who want a comfy job that takes forever.
low hanging fruit is gone. Also, to busy spending money on diversity. Can't group together a bunch of smart white men and write blank cheque anymore.
Jordan Gomez
So is it "low hanging fruit is gone" or "too busy spending money on diversity".
Sorry, but isn't fusion right there. Like literally, water is everywhere and physics grads are driving taxis because they cannot get fusion jobs.
Caleb Clark
>Germany will not share its fusion se... >20 years away Good. By then we will have a government that actually won't be dumb enough to share our technology.
Jason Cook
I get into it with my father about this all the time.
People dont realize nothing has fundamentally changed in the last 65 years. We have all the same surgeries and medications, use the same propulsion in our cars and planes, kill each other with the same types of weapons, hell there was even a working intranet for the military in the 60s ---- literally nothing has changed besides efficiency and miniaturization.
Within about 20 years we will not be able to make any more advancement in terms of computing power, trying to pass single electrons across transistors or w/e doesnt work very well on account of them just doing whatever they want, and we are rapidly approaching that point.
I forsee a serious problem when people realize we have peaked as a species, run up on unscaleable walls placed by the physical limitations of the universe. We will either finally devote developmental resources toward advancing consciousness itself, or we will just collectively commit indirect suicide, something i think large amount of people are already doing
Julian Cruz
>Good. By then we will have a government that actually won't be dumb enough to share our technology. Yes, because in 20yrs our government will deem all fusion research haram.
Julian Perry
>implying the BRiD GmbH will survive long enough to bring in the amount of muslims needed for that
Jackson Ward
These technologies exist. It is the date of their public disclosure that is being pushed back.
The number of life improving technology that has been deliberately withheld from humanity is staggering.
Blake Watson
The oil companies keep killing the fusion researchers.
Chase Cruz
Interesting you say that just now. A bunch of scientists recently agreed that we have physically peaked as a species with only a slight potential for further intellectual development. Eg: sure we have developed and understand more advanced technologies etc. over time, but its the same old mechanisms of processing information, our neurons aren't going to get any better or faster at doing that job. I can't find the fucking article but I read it less than a week ago.
Thomas Hall
Ah forgive me, its 2:30am and I'm retarded. Google "humans have peaked". The articles are from early december.
Aaron Reyes
Fusion technology and patents are kept secret because once you're able to have a self-sustaining fusion reactor with a positive net energy output all water on the earth could be a source of cheap energy and the coal/petroleum industry would become bankrupt. Fusion power would extract deuterium from sea water and use it as a fuel. It would reduce the cost of electricity so much, that as a commodity, utility companies would have to charge virtually nothing. All petroleum/coal would be obsolete and used only for fuel, plastics, and pharmaceuticals
Sebastian Gomez
I havent even begun to peak. But when I do.... You'll know.
Zachary Hernandez
The last designs you guys had were asymmetric. You will destroy your country if you run with that.
Andrew Garcia
>Why in the world is fusion power always 20 years away? It is like a Mars landing, always 20 or 30years away. Never coming closer.
Fusion power is just not possible. It's not a suitable form of energy for power stations.
Levi Reyes
Making reliable fusion power will literally change the world.
Go on bro do it
Evan Lopez
What happens when we run out of water
Colton Sullivan
>Why in the world is fusion power always 20 years away? This is how people get more government (i.e. taxpayer) funding. Keep promising something near enough in the future to sound worthy of investment but far enough in the future that no immediate expectations are held.
When something is truly worthy of investment, you'll see a glut of billionaires and the investment groups they lead jumping in with both feet. Government is not answerable to their own pocketbook or a board of investors because it was never their money to begin with.
Brody Gutierrez
The media never knows what the fuck they are talking about. 20-30 years in the future seems a pretty distant time but not too distant, just the ideal amount of distance. It's perfect for the media.
Every year we advance towards the goals the OP talks about but nobody can really precise when they will happen, nobody knows. I bet some """"""""""""experts"""""""""""" also said 40, 50 years from now or something. Nobody really knows but advances are being made at a consistent pace.
Jace Wright
>Fusion technology and patents are kept secret because once you're able to have a self-sustaining fusion reactor with a positive net energy output
If it was possible it would have been done by now
Nathan Morales
There was a guy that ran thenus patent office in like 1875, he wrote a letter to congress/president saying that humans had advanced as far as we will ever advance and in his opinion the patent office was no longer a necessity.
You guys are him
Tyler Peterson
>What happens when we run out of water One word - Gatorate!
Mason Nguyen
It'll happen the day the oil reserves run out, please wait.
Jason Jackson
What is your supporting evidence?
William Cruz
If there isn't profit to be made, no one will make it.
On top of all the red tape, corporate espionage, corporate assassins, laws, crony politicians, etc.
The only way we'll see anything you mentioned is if you have someone like Bezos doing it for fun.
Josiah Parker
>Has humanity stopped making advances in tech All advances in tech seem to be going to the next model of iPhone/Samsung phone that will inevitably come out 2 weeks after the last one.
Brody Perez
To advance technology exponential effort is required. It would have happened in 20 years if exponential efforts wasn't drained by refugees etc.
Nathan Smith
no one gives a fuck about your memes hans, you are next on this pic
Aiden Martin
No major progress in science and tech has occured in 30+ years. Transistors keep getting smaller, which is inevitable, but that's it. We think we're in a tech revolution, but when Moore's law reaches its limit, progress is over.
Logan Roberts
>What is your supporting evidence?
Knowing about how it works. It's not suitable for a continuous process like a power station needs.
It's obvious once you do some reading.
Henry Richardson
>Sorry, but isn't fusion right there. Like literally, water is everywhere and physics grads are driving taxis because they cannot get fusion jobs
It's just really complex technology. It takes a massive amount of resources to get going and the maintenance may make it impractical.
Just look up the definition of low hanging fruit.
Benjamin Williams
>Why can't we actually invest in stuff like robotics or a Mars landing or fusion energy or new space craft propulsion? Because goyim would forget about more important things like Six gorillion, sucking muslim dicks or watching interracial porn. Inspiration and dreams are dangerous.
Carter Barnes
Fusion is the second most important invention mankind will ever make. Fire is the most important.
Josiah Bennett
>It's just really complex technology. It takes a massive amount of resources to get going and the maintenance may make it impractical.
It's not all that complex.
The problem is that it doesnt work as a continuous net energy producing process and never will
Mason Jones
>So is it "low hanging fruit is gone" or "too busy spending money on diversity".
there can be more than one problem at the same time you dumb fuck
Nathaniel Lewis
Fusion is demonstrably plausible, it's just the net power output currently is negative. A fusion power station would virtually make cheap energy on every coastal location on earth. It would also allow for the desalination, the extraction of caustic lye, chlorine gas, and the production of ammonia.
Josiah Scott
It's like saying dynamite is an energy source.
Yes it is, but you can't use it in power stations.
Ryan Diaz
The deuterium in the world's seas is said to be enough for our needs for at least a billion years - the sun will make the planet uninhabitable within 100-200 million.
Ryan Williams
You ever read ‘The End of Science.’ You pretty much summed it up.
Thomas Collins
>Fusion is demonstrably plausible, it's just the net power output currently is negative.
It always will be and even if you did get some net energy output the process is still not suitable for power generation
Angel Cooper
Stop crying y'all whine little faggots, want results? Do science or fuck off. > inb4 can't do science cuz brainlet
Nathan Ortiz
>Having your women dress modestly in public is bad
Ok there, Malewitzki, this just isn't funny.
Grayson Gonzalez
You would run out of deuterium before you run out of water. The only byproducts are helium can be used for cryogenics, and tritium could be used for nuclear batteries and lighting phosphorescent materials.
Sebastian Morales
>there can be more than one problem at the same time you dumb fuck
If all the low hanging fruit are gone, then fusion is not a low hanging fruit. Which explains why we haven't got it yet.
If we are too busy spending money on diversity, then there is no way that we actually know whether it is a low hanging fruit or not.
Nolan Wilson
Scientific orthodoxy and citation index circlejerking user. At this day and age new revolutionary scientist get laughed upon and get kicked out of academia.
Ayden King
they've been saying this since the 1930s
Jonathan Kelly
>If all the low hanging fruit are gone, then fusion is not a low hanging fruit. Which explains why we haven't got it yet.
Billiions and billions have been spent trying to create viable fusion.
Dylan Jenkins
I call bs. Genomics is a a thing you know
Eli Gutierrez
The only limiting factor to human developement right now is the cost of energy. Once energy is made into a near-limitless resource, that opens up the way to a wide variety of technologies. Clean water? Ha, de-salinization means even Arabia will have access to it. The other competing problem is an inability to store energy for small devices due to low-storage batteries.
Noah Hill
No major breakthrough in physics has occured in over 40 years. We've just been building bigger and more expensive particle accelerators. No fundamental discoveries like those in the first half of the 20th century, and 300 years prior, have occured. Discoveries in theoretical physics are what drive technology. There's nothing new to build on in the 21st century, and when Moore's law reaches its limit we've pretty much dried up as a species.
Cooper Wright
>Billiions and billions have been spent trying to create viable fusion.
So? Billions and billions have been spent on nuclear power plants. It might still be the case that a new type of nuclear power plant is much cheaper, more efficient and better to run - even without billions spent on it.
Sebastian Campbell
>So? Billions and billions have been spent on nuclear power plants.
And the plants work and have done since the first ones were built many decades ago.
Christopher Richardson
Because (((they))) are leading you around by a carrot hanging from a stick, goy.
Bentley Cruz
Fusion sounds like bullshit
How do you extract the energy without disrupting the reactor?
Assuming you could make it perpetual, no energy could be lost, so where's it coming from?
Carson Kelly
Bullshit. So much has been discovered, esp in biolology
James Moore
>Fusion sounds like bullshit >How do you extract the energy without disrupting the reactor?
Exactly. Its a load of bollocks. You simply cant contain it effectively.
Michael Thompson
We are already working on it in the south of France. Germans are big cucks since they dropped their nuclear project just because of ecologist. Meanwhile they are the one who are polluting the most in Europe.
Cooper Powell
US mastered the art of fusion 300 years ago. Behold American fusion!
Brandon Adams
>And the plants work and have done since the first ones were built many decades ago.
Not my point. What I am saying is that the billions and billions on nuclear power plants may be irrelevant for the research on the feasibility of a new type of nuclear power plant.
Just as the research done in Tokamaks may actually not help that much for future generations of fusion devices.
Just as the research done in lithium ion battery packs for e-cars may not really help for the development of solid state batteries. youtube.com/watch?v=CuwqGj3UAHE
Jace Green
>Not my point. What I am saying is that the billions and billions on nuclear power plants may be irrelevant for the research on the feasibility of a new type of nuclear power plant.
The 'research' into fusion is endless and yields no useful results
Charles Hill
>How do you extract the energy without disrupting the reactor? What is a water cooling system? Neutrons hit the coil walls, the energy from the neutrons results in heat in the coil walls, water cools down the walls and gets heated itself, steam from the heated water drives turbines.
Like pretty much all other reactors we have today.
Julian Robinson
>Meanwhile they are the one who are polluting the most in Europe. We love our coal. Sorry.
Hunter Cruz
There hasn't been a truly groundbreaking advance in biology since the revolutions in molecular biology in the 50s and 60s.
Carson Perez
>and never will Retard. I bet you think the sun doesn't work either.
Isaac King
>What is a water cooling system? Neutrons hit the coil walls, the energy from the neutrons results in heat in the coil walls
The neutrons wreck the structure of the reactor
Owen Lewis
>like pretty much all other reactors All other reactors have energy going in retard
How is it that you have the neutrons dispelling heat and can yet maintain a perpetual amount of energy? Because with every other form of energy production today, you have some sort of input
Wyatt White
Great. Now Germany will fusion powered third world caliphate in 10 years, instead of a regular third world caliphate.
Luis Jenkins
I just watched this yesterday youtube.com/watch?v=xQzwCDuA394 I guess the efficiency is largely dependent on scale to reduce thermal losses, heat loss being related to surface area but total energy in the system dependent on volume. The machine they are building now they expect to get a small return on energy and in the future even larger machines could see up to 7x return
Jaxon Long
>Retard. I bet you think the sun doesn't work either.
The sun works becuase its huge size contains the reaction due to gravity.
We can't reproduce that.
Mason Flores
>import billions of muslims into germany >activate fusion >billions of dead muslims merkel is /ourgal/
Ethan Hernandez
>The 'research' into fusion is endless and yields no useful results
Interesting. They said the same during the Manhattan project when it turned out that a plutonium bomb in a gun type configuration would not work. And given the large problems the US had with scraping enough uranium 235 together for a bomb, some politicians said "shit, in order to build 1 bomb every half year, we will have to have 100,000 workers do uranium mining and centrifuge management etc.". Thank God they didn't stop the research, but thought more of implosion, otherwise America would have never been able to become the nuclear superpower it is today.
John Brown
>mfw the speculation of positive energy gain is based upon models that just keep the advances going in the future >mfw it's literally just getting more efficient and will never pass 0
Hunter Nelson
>The machine they are building now they expect to get a small return on energy
Wake me up when that happens. It won't.
Tyler Peterson
>Interesting. They said the same during the Manhattan project
The Manhattan project didnt take 70 years to achieve nothing
Nicholas Richardson
1) W7-X is not a sustainable fusion device - it's a test platform like DIII-D or CTH or (some day) ITER. Even if it discovers new information or new methods that will make sustainable fusion possible, it will still take developing an entirely new device in order to make fusion power possible.
2a) Fusion, on paper, works. The derivations and modelling are (relatively) straightforward and we've had the basic gist of how fusion works for almost a century. The problem is the gritty details - the nonlinear effects, turbulence, instabilities, etc etc that we intentionally leave out of simpler models because they can't be worked out analytically play a big, big role in destabilizing fusion plasmas, and a lot of the solutions to these problems have to be either worked out purely computationally, or corrected through trial and error.
2b) Add to this fusion's other big problem - scale. The size, power, cost, and construction time of fusion test platforms has increased exponentially over the last half a century, and that mindset doesn't bode well for sustainable fusion. W7-X cost around $1.5 billion, ITER (when all's said and done) will probably end up near $20 billion, and its successor (when one inevitably comes along) will probably be bigger and more expensive than that. Fusion isn't going to be the cheap, sustainable, effective solution for generating power that everyone is hoping for if every reactor costs 2-3 times what a fission reactor does, is twice the size, and costs ten times as much. A lot of us in non-fusion plasma physics think that, frankly, fusion camps may need to go back to the drawing board. Refocus efforts towards making fusion work on a much much smaller scale (if only just barely generating enough power to sustain their reactions) and progress from there.
Jaxson Perez
Even the sun loses energy and eventually dies
The difference is that a sun has a gorrilian years of fuel and is able to be efficient by having so much mass gravity pulls back the energy
I have yet to see somebody explain how their meme reactor is going to violate the law of conservation of energy
Chase Lopez
they didn't have to mine since a wealth businessman in africa shipped them all the uranium they needed.
John Brown
We got a bunch of tech in the mid 20th century from UFOs and pretended we invented it. Most human invented tech is pretty crude. We're good at figuring chemistry, not so much physics. In reality no real new tech has been organically created since microchips and computers, its only been progressive improvements in a few limited fields.
Josiah Harris
All of the breakthroughs are locked away while we rot in repetativeness with the same old shit
If they would release all this shit it we would have new walls to climb with new tools at our disposal
We cant push the bar higher if the bar is hidden, while we are shown a low hanging bar that seemingly never rises
James Jones
>The neutrons wreck the structure of the reactor You say that as if it were a show stopper and never unheard of in a fission reactor. There are whole articles and books on the subject. It is an active research field. There are countless candidate materials which can withstand the high energy neutron environment including for instance tungsten laminates or tungsten-copper functionally-graded materials or fibre and foil reinforced composites of copper and tungsten.
Matthew Hughes
you niggers won't have a country in 20 years, it'll just be the EU and its "states". I wouldn't be surprised if the German govt is dissolved and you'll be directly led by the EU govt.
Ryan Rogers
pic related the carrot is nuclear fusion
Easton Brooks
Hinkley Point C costs 25 billion USD. More than all fusion reactor research projects worldwide, including ITER.
So much for "it is too expensive". It really isn't.
Elijah Thompson
>You say that as if it were a show stopper and never unheard of in a fission reactor. There are whole articles and books on the subject. It is an active research field
you cant stop neutrons except with massive shielding which you cant use.
Josiah Flores
exactly this !
Isaiah Bailey
That's good news, stellarators are just the first step. The biggest problem with fusion power is that is doesn't produce fissionable U238 to destroy the planet so when the american zionist government invested tax money in the program their cronies eventually pocketed it all, produced nothing of value and then said it's not possible. Anyone who says this can't be done is a worthless puppet for zionists
Jace Sanchez
>Hinkley Point C costs 25 billion USD. More than all fusion reactor research projects worldwide, including ITER.
And it will actually work and produce electricity
Luke Gutierrez
OP is a dumbass. Fusion is a scam, it will never work, same as Cern, Nasa or the Pope. All fake BS.
Learn to redpill or GTFO, you are wasting our time!
I don't mind, just don't pretend that you are green n all after that.
Nicholas Mitchell
A black trash bag isn't modest
Mason Williams
>Higgs Ok
Caleb Perez
We just need another non-nuclear war between technologically equivalent powers. The resultant tech explosion would jumpstart most tech by at least 15 years.
You think the airplane would have developed so fast if people hadn't needed to drop bombs from it?
Jeremiah Baker
Some chinese exchange student will copy your reactors
Soon
Brayden Bennett
They are literally trying to control the process that otherwise only occurs in the core of fucking stars so yes it can take a while.
It will benefit massively from advances in material sciences to create better conductors and stronger magnetic fields, these were the hard limits dictating the reactors size, temperature, output, stability and output and therefor cost.
With new super conductors that can operate at warmer temperatures they can already build SPARC and similar projects, once they have a reactor that generates more than it uses the technology holds so much potential it has no equal, it will literally change everything and we can advance much further in other fields because of it.
All they need is a reactor with an output ratio above 1 and the technology is already there to do it.
Meanwhile governments spend futile stupid money on nonviable "renewables" to please ignorant muh enviorment sentimentalist hippie fools who don't even know what a free electron is.
Parker Cox
Easy, as ny time an advance happens, budgets drop. Remember if you arent getting inflation adjusted, you lose 3% a year. By the time your grant gets renewed, you lost overhead and are in lights on or a reduction method.
For Mars, its because the specifics of a mars and back again versus mars and make beer. Different designs that arent compatible.
Xavier Wood
>Universe is Electric, Hurr Durr we need Fusion Goy
>They are literally trying to control the process that otherwise only occurs in the core of fucking stars so yes it can take a while.
Which is why it's futile and will not produce viable power
David Foster
The sheer amount of brainlets in this thread is shocking. I'm going to Sup Forums and /sci/ for about 2 weeks cause I can't take it.
Jayden Jackson
At a certain point you just cant advamce anymore, because physics.
Soon we literally will not be able to make microchips smaller, because you cannot control single particles
Please point me toward one single fundamental development made since 1960. Making phones smaller, spreading the internet to everyone, or increasing surgical success rates are not fundamental advancements, its just us getting better at things that were already around.