Why aren't you religious, and why don't you believe in God?
You live longer:
express.co.uk
And Pascal's Wager: if you're an atheist, you're for sure going not going to heaven (if there is one), but if you're a Christian you have a chance of going to heaven (if there is one).
There's only positives to being theistic. It makes no rational or logical sense to choose to be an atheist.
I think their main issue you is what you make relgion to be.
It's hard to agree with such arguments you show even as a believer I find them very dumb.
I cannot force myself to believe in something that there isn't any proof of.
What do you mean "proof"? You mean evidence that's observable by our limited senses?
So because you cannot see Him, feel Him, taste Him, smell Him, or hear Him, you won't believe He exists?
Are you strictly a naturalist? Do you believe in quantum mechanics?
The right religion is great for a society. What arguments are you talking about?
The "look my statistic shows that you live longer"
Look at this argumenzts "you can only win if you believe because otherwise your lost anyway".
Can you imagine a person starting to believe because of this?
i just cant get myself to believe the fairytails and enjoy the larp
...
It's more "religion has utility and confers benefits upon individuals, statistically speaking."
And "why would you willingly deprive yourself of the utility and benefits of a religion for absolutely nothing?"
I mean, no offense, but you're clearly not as smart as Blaise Pascal. It's not like you could come up with a reasonable argument against the concept.
Simply mocking a concept, while being too low IQ to properly articulate why you think the concept is bad, is not virtuous.
>implying you have to lick Israel's toes to be a Christian
You don't have to. And you can still get the benefits of Christianity without bending over for Israel.
Do you only believe in things that are observable with your five senses?
Do you believe in free will? It's hard to believe in free will but not God. Free will isn't real in the mechanistic sense.
Simply saying "fairytail" in passing is stupid.
Lets think of christ.
He tells his followers to love your next like he loved his followers.
He doesn't tell them to be statistcially better off compared to those that don't love him. He doesn put a billboard chart with with the calculated benefits.
He showed his love. And this is what you have to do. You have to shoiw the love of christ.
You cannot compare the two. Whether you believe in quantum mechanics or not doesn't change the effect of quantum mechanics should it ever become provable. On the other hand, should the existence of a god ever be proven true, whether or not you believe in it effects what happens to you (depending in which religion guessed it right, that is).
Quantum mechanics? Sure, it might be real, it might not, and I don't really care. Do I believe in it? No, I just give it plausibility. God? Again, totally possible. Might be real, might not be. But I can't force myself to believe in it, just for the sake of reaping the benefits of being a believer. Because that's not real belief, and it's spawned from selfishness which is counter to what most religions preach so it wouldn't be likely to help you in the end anyway.
And in the end, I don't understand how one could force themselves to believe something they don't believe in, because that's not real belief and the result would be the same as not believing.
Because I was raised Catholic.
>2017+2-1
>Believing in Skyjew
I'm not social, I don't want to go to Church and deal with all that. I can believe in God on my own terms, by myself without signalling it to everyone.
because jesus was a crypto jew
I am a hindu, prove my religion wrong and yours right
"Only upsides" Yeah, because some of the asinine, completely-insane rules you find in most religions are "upsides".
Because I'm agnostic you brainlet, the choice of any true intellectual.
Didn’t Jesus mandate that you kike lovers have to go to school
Hindu is better than being atheist.
I don't want to prove you wrong. I just don't want you to believe in nothing.
What good does Hinduism create in the world?
am i not going burn in hell?
in your scripture it says people who do not believe in jesus and god will burn in hell?
in fact its the only unforgivable sin
>be me
>pascal
>create logical argument for belief in God
>die
>"I'm sorry, we only let people smart enough to realize that God has a very unlikely chance to exist go to Heaven"
>tfw Burning in Hell forever
I don't know what you're talking about.
To sin against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin.
What this is, is not closer defined and varies a lot between churches.
Showing love and being a loving individual tends to give you benefits in life that makes you statistically better off than others.
>"Because that's not real belief, and it's spawned from selfishness which is counter to what most religions preach so it wouldn't be likely to help you in the end anyway."
It's practicing the lifestyle, searching for it, and eventually coming to the truth of it over time. You bridge the gap of your doubts as you continue to worship God.
>On the other hand, should the existence of a god ever be proven true, whether or not you believe in it effects what happens to you (depending in which religion guessed it right, that is).
Well, if you're told that refusal to follow a faith will bar you from heaven and then you find out that the religion is true, you've ruined yourself by willingly choosing not to follow the religion when you really didn't need to refuse it to begin with.
It's a test of faith.
It is never about being better off than others.
Go and study more.
Sure, and I might be right.
Nonetheless, rationally speaking, the fact that you're a Hindu is better than being an atheist.
And because of that, I'm somewhat satisfied. Would I prefer you be a Christian? Sure. But am I glad you're not an atheist? Absolutely.
You're choosing to be rational by believing.
True, you have less stress if you're a brainwashed moron that believes everything is handled by sky daddy.
No, but rationally, would you prefer to be better off or worse off?
I'm making the rational case for being religious versus being an atheist. Why needlessly harm yourself?
organized religion is a spook.
I don't need to use religion as a crutch to better myself with. All those things that prolong your life in church you can do outside of church. Being religious does not benefit me whatsoever.
>chooses to make life harder on himself for no gain
>calls others morons
Really makes you think. If you cripple yourself, you can really make your life harder. Why don't you do that?
Nonsense, having no purpose in life and believing in nothing has zero utility.
As Pascal's Wager points out, if you believe in nothing, you stand to lose. If you believe in something, you might have a small possibility of winning.
That small possibility of winning makes it rational to choose belief over disbelief.
I prefer to not being a dick.
Rationally statistics say nothing about causation.
Broken familes cause unhappy people. Many happy people come from stable families. Many stable families are religious.
But never all.
There are many happy atheist famalies that benefit from the effect of your statistic.
You simply don't understand that corelation isn't causation.
The biggest benefit of religion is its morals and values. If you believe but you're a evangelical or Baptist that denies morals you won't be better off than your average single mom.
Guarantee me a qt traditional virgin wife and I will (or at least pretend to) be as religious as you want me to be
Duties are more fulfilling than nothing.
Purposelessness leads to despair and unhappiness.
The pretending part will deny you to enjoy your virgin waifu.
You will see her pureness and you will see yourself in the shadow of your own lies. You will crush one day like a raw egg that fell from the 7th floor.
Maybe I should just lobotomize myself, then I could experience eternal bliss.
Correlation doesn't equal causation, but on average, if you see something repeatedly happen, it's likely that there may be some causation.
The scientific method isn't perfect. It's just testing something that's repeatable, falsifiable, and can be observed.
However, if it repeats itself over and over, it's probably a good idea to acknowledge it.
That's also silly. One can intentionally believe in God and be intelligent.
Do you seriously believe that there aren't things beyond human comprehension? Things that are beyond our five senses?
If everyone were to go blind, would colors cease to objectively exist? We wouldn't have empirical evidence of them.
This rarely happens with statistics.
Statistics in general not an empirical evidence.
I have an argument with Japanese people jumping from chairs.
On monday one japanese person jumps from a chair.
On tuesday two.
etc.
When 4 Japanese persons jumped from the chaur you can see that the breast cancer diagnoses are remarkably increaed here in Germany.
Is there a corelation of the amount of japs jumping from a chair and breast cancer in Germany?
The Jews (so called) are enemy number one in the whole New Testament. How do these people believe this?
>Do you seriously believe that there aren't things beyond human comprehension? Things that are beyond our five senses?
No
>Do you believe in god
No
God knows everything.
He knows if you're are only a Christian to hedge your bets. Which means your 'belief' was nothing but self-interest and not out of any true desire to help your fellow man, only yourself. So off to hell with you.
What good does trying to trick the almighty with playacting do? Either you genuinely believe, in which case Pascal's wager is meaningless, or you don't, in which case you are just as likely to burn, because you're not fooling God.
Do good works because they're good, not because you hope to tip the eternal scales in your favor. If God exists and you improved the world around you, maybe you will be rewarded. If not, at least you changed things a bit for the better.
I’m not intelligent or introspective enough to reach that level of guilt. We would live normal happy lives together and any time she says something about God i’d just nod and agree
I have both purpose and belief. Neither have anything to do with god.
Nobody can swallow himself for forever.
One day your true face is is always revealed.
It takes effort to lie but no effort to just be yourself.
Earlier or later you are just yourself.
The other thing is. She will never love you but love the lie you made. Is this how you want to treat your virgin waifu?
>Why aren't you religious
because i've never heard a more convincing argument than 'lol just have faith bro'
>As Pascal's Wager points out, if you believe in nothing, you stand to lose. If you believe in something, you might have a small possibility of winning.
if you believe in nothing and there is nothing you lose nothing, if you believe in something and there is nothing you lose the time you spent believing
>Sup Forums-people obnoxiously posting religion instead of politics
If, for whatever reason, Japanese people jumping on chairs correlated with the rise in breast cancer and someone theorized a possible explanation for why one could affect the other, it might be worth looking into. That's especially true if it nearly always happens.
Do you think a non-believer can fake his way into heaven? No. It's got to be real.
How can I play the odds when the ante-up means changing everything I believe? I've got to be convinced. If that's not good enough for god, then I'm already doomed.
The Rationalist's paradox
Because there are only 2 religions that make sense. Roman Catholic and Theravanda Budhism.
The first one has been destroyed and corrupted from within. It serves the enemy since the at least the 40s.
And for the second one, there is no place to study or practice in Argentina. All Buddhism in Argentina and most parts of America is actually esoteric Buddhism and doesn't respect the Pali canon.
No you don't. If you're the random accretion of chance and time "evolving" into you headed towards universal heat death, you have neither purpose nor any beliefs that will survive you.
Hitchens's razor: that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
If you could point to scientific evidence of God or creationism then we'd like to see it
Until then, have fun in la-la land worshiping sky fairies until you die.
>She will never love you but love the lie you made. Is this how you want to treat your virgin waifu?
Yes, because belief in an invisible sky deity shouldn’t be a barrier keeping two white people apart, from having a happy marriage and creating white children. It’s a Jewish trick to divide us.
The universe.
>points at universe
>Being white matters.
You lose more if you believe in nothing and end up losing everything.
You lose very little (and might even gain some things in your life) if you believe in something and nothing happens.
Out of those two options, believing is the most rational choice.
>arguing objective morality
No. And I'm not saying fake belief. I'm saying learn to embrace it, and bridge the gap in your beliefs.
Again, are colors objectively real if everyone were to go blind?
You can repeat this infinitly it will always show that.
The thing is that on thursday doctors here mosly work longer so that working people prefer to put aopintments on this day. Since there is a obligatory breast cancer investigation for women above 45 once a year. Most of them will have it on a thursday and therefore most diagnoses will be done on this day.
This is supposed to show that you can't know a causation from statistcs. Reasons can be very arbitrary nonsense.
If you allow statistics as a prove than you can prove what ever you want always. (what is sadly also heavily done in science nowadays what produces a lot of bullshit).
It's more a jewish trick to make good people prefering to mate with other good people and not with liers.
I have spiritual beliefs that I follow. I'm very happy with them. I respect Christians for following their own faith. I'm not gonna become one though just out of fear of going to hell. There's lots of religions out there, so if avoiding hell is the reason, there's a bunch of other choices to latch onto as well.
Typical christcuck tricks. Dividing white brothers along the lines of religious sectarianism, then importing and accepting brown savages as “humanitarianism.”
What evidence? Empirical evidence?
So if you were to go blind, would you still believe colors exist?
Evidence is a fault standard unless you believe the only thing in existence is that which you can detect with your five senses.
Scientific is based off the scientific method which is just performing a falsifiable experiment (that can be repeated) and observing the results with our senses.
Again, are you really claiming nothing exists beyond our senses?
Nonetheless, I'm not arguing the existence of God. I'm arguing the irrationality of not choosing to believe in God when disbelief provides no utility and may ultimately hurt you.
>You lose very little if you believe in something and nothing happens.
I don't agree. How much of your life have you spent in church, praying, reading scripture, or making this thread on Sup Forums? Weeks, months, years? If there's nothing after death then our time here is our most precious possession and all that time doing those things was wasted
only a few posts it took for you to show your real face.
And you say you can hide it for a life long.
Very naive you are. In deep darkness you live.
I’m more true to Christian law than most Christians are. I’m a “good person” by Christian standards. The only thing i don’t do is pretend to believe in the magic allfather
>Do you think a non-believer can fake his way into heaven? No. It's got to be real.
You don't know that, and you don't know that, with practice, you may actually begin to believe in God.
The rational choice is to choose to believe in God. There is nothing to gain, and possibly, a lot to lose by not believing in God.
Why rationally be an atheist?
to be fair to , Pascal's wager is one of the largest reasons people in modern society follow Christianity. Along with the cosmological and telelogical arguments. it really doesnt make sense why someone would willingly exclude themselves from Christianity. OP makes a fair point
>Again, are colors objectively real if everyone were to go blind?
Can you prove the positive claim of god? It's easy to say there are things beyond your comprehension, very easy to agree with that, but you're conflating the possibility of things beyond your comprehension with the positive claim of there being an omnipotent being that arranges everything in mysterious ways according to christian belief even if happenstance goes against christian belief because that's the mysterious ways that you don't have comprehension of just fucking have faith goy.
Why Christianity exactly? Why not Pagan? Or Hindu? Or Islam?
Fuck christians, kikes and muzzies
Christians = Cucks
You're unbelievably retarded.
Fair enough, but sometimes correlations do have a causal relationship and we sometimes have to make the best decisions off the data presented to us.
Any choice, Christian or not, is better than being an atheist.
In all honesty, most Christians are super assholes. If you're not a "sinless" person, they spit on you, despite preaching and leaving notes in bathrooms saying "hey bro, come to our church, we got a spot for you :)."If you're an average secular person, you will never have a place in a Christian community. It's not really angering or anything,just a bit hypocritical.
Cool, just was curious what you thought. Thanks. Still think atheists are free to believe what they want, though I do personally find it a little sad too.
It rather tricks people to see everything in numbers and to deny the reality of issues.
One has always to be carefull with such data.
Any of those are better than atheism, user.
My point is it's more rational to believe in SOMETHING than nothing at all.
That's not a bad argument, but if you acknowledge that our senses are limited, why not just embrace some belief beyond you?
It doesn't harm you to become a believer, and it could help you. Rationally, wouldn't it make sense to believe in something rather than nothing after you've already ceded that some things may exist beyond our comprehension?
Christian or not, any belief is better than atheism.
>I’m more true to Christian law than most Christians are
I see that this is wrong in your own boasting.
Alone in this sentence you already broke three christian moral rules.
>Unbelievably retarded
You can only make that claim if your IQ is high enough to articulate a point that shoots down my argument, but I don't believe you're intelligent enough to do so.
Will there ever be an end to the "atheists believe in nothing" meme?
Atheists do believe in a lot of things, 2000 years old desert fairy tales are just not included.
Atheists believe in some form of after life that can't be proven with empirical evidence?
That's news to me. So by your own admission, you believe in some sort of fairy tale even though you're an atheist?
Can you choose to believe in a big red unicorn that gives toys to grandmother's? No. Not without reason. You might act like it, but you can't force belief.
Will i keep practicing to believe? No, I won't willingly brainwash myself. I do model my life after much of what the Bible teaches, try to anyway, because I believe in it's benefits, but I don't believe it was written by your generally accepted 'image' of God.
I'm not an athiest. I'm agnostic. I want to believe in the supernatural but gun-to-my-head ... I just don't ... yet. I'm all ears (and eyes, and mind).
I'm rationally agnostic because my brain won't let me believe anything it can't reasonably prove. Does that rule out all the supernatural? Yes, until it becomes understood, predictable and therefore part of the natural.
Don't take me down the "but faith in science" path. I've proven much to myself and the rest is just fanfiction open to editing.
I've tried both believing and not believing. Was raised Baptist and over the course of my life have discovered that organized religion isn't really something benefiting for me. I've found that I live my life the same regardless if I choose to believe in a god or not. Apparently it's call apatheism and it's indifference between believing there is a god or not. It's not that I don't believe it's just that it doesn't matter to me. If God exists it doesn't change how I live my life therefor if God exists that's amazing, but if God doesn't exist it's also amazing. I think everyone is entitled to believe and express their spirituality as they want, it's just not something that interests me. Feel free to call me a massive faggot for it.
Atheists that believe in things are equal to people that are just religious.
Atheists that know things have a basic issue on the conecpt of morality.
Morality that derives from reason can never be an absolute but will always be a subject of perspective. Therefore: Atheist morality is never more than a oppinion always open for debates.
Ergo: Atheist morals will always be subject of Moral relativism what washes aways the difference of right and wrong.
>As Pascal's Wager points out, if you believe in nothing, you stand to lose. If you believe in something, you might have a small possibility of winning.
Pascal Wager has been shown to be irrational so many times it is not even funny anymore.
What if only those, who use their rational mind and do not believe in bullshit win in afterlife? It has exactly the same probability formula as the Pascal's version - zero evidence so depending only on prior assignment.
I am a christian. But i dont believe in god, because im not a fucking retard
>t. brainlet christcuck incapable of any semblance of an argumant
You're worth dogshit
>It doesn't harm you to become a believer
First of all I'd have to lobotomize myself to believe, delusion isn't healthy and gullibility and blind agreement can make you a unwitting tool for the ambition of others. Just look at the state of american christianity and Israel.
I think you're on the right path to bridging the gap. After a certain point, I think you'll realize that since things can exist beyond our five senses and the "naturalist/mechanistic" world, you'll begin believing in God.
There's no real reason not to. It becomes self-defeating and limiting to say that you can only go by what you see, taste, hear, smell, and taste knowing that we're limited human beings. Rationally, believing in something just makes more sense as it's possible that something is out there.
Hedge your bets and then become a true believer in time. There's no downside to it.
Nice strawman you got there, but i never mentioned afterlife.
When i said atheists believe in things i was referring to humanity, art, science and the joy of new discoveries and breakthroughts. You know, things you can enjoy without having to imagine them.
This is exactly why statistics is invented in the first place.
You see correlation - you test hypothesis. If the correlation survives multiple testing there probably is causation in either direction or,common causal link from some third source.
Well if you've come to the conclusion that fire insurance is better than none, why would I rationally choose your brand of fire insurance over the competition?
Stop saying rationally. You're just trying to turn arguments around but your logic only works in the education building of your church.