Consciousness, the soul, and suffering

A question about all those who believe that consciousness is the soul: All those kids who got raped then murdered, or rape victims in general: As the memories and after-effects of the rape stays with them after they die, will they have to endure an eternity of suffering?

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youtu.be/lVpAuiGgw1k
indiachan.com/boards/india/thread/1914/
youtube.com/watch?v=DXGF9UUGD04&list=PLtFnfSc9NwNzMHGZzPYroNJCPDd4Ymjgf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
headless.org/on-having-no-head.htm
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>As the memories and after-effects of the rape stays with them after they die

if they were innocent: they are compensated
if they weren't innocent: it is the karma

So you’re saying it doesn’t?

They have a lifetime to let go of the pain. If they do not, they will be reborn and may try again.

How does that even work? Will the consciousness travel into an unborn living thing or something? Also, I didn’t know most of Sup Forums are Hindus

In my opinion their consciousness is not reborn - their soul is. It's recycled, but in a sense it retains a certain degree of 'progress' made already, without retaining the memory of it. I agree and I, too, am not Hindu.

It was a joke. The Hindu thing

go to this video at 58:00
youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-i6ApZky0

And I hope you’re right that they reborn, or else all those poor people who had terrible things happened to them before they die which they were unable to consolidate will never find peace

Hey Bodhi. And yes I eat dinner this late, as I'm a night frog.

What do you believe? I think with your premises, we must conclude that they are indeed reborn, or that the Highest God is evil, and I do not believe the latter. Remember also that there are several paths to wisdom. Seeing much, studying much, suffering much. By overcoming suffering they may actually be better off than those that caused the suffering, in some ways.

The soul is the ongoing collective memory of the universe.

To answer your question, no, there is no suffering in some afterlife for victims of horrible acts. It all just gets banked into the vast infinity that the soul is.

Everyone suffers to a degree, but nobody gets to eternal paradise until all instances of soul (you) get delivered.

Evolution is the process toward this. Have hope. It all ends in heaven anyway.

The movement of the soul is not just limited to Eastern traditions like Hinduism. You also see it in practices like Gnosticism and Hermetics/Alchemy.

If I'm speaking correctly, when to body dies, the soul returns to general "collective unconsciousness" (not really a good phrase, but it works for the time being) until it is drawn again by the demiurge to inhabit another body.

When, though the body, a soul has become "gold" (an alchemist term for becoming spiritually perfect.) Then that soul has escaped the control of the demiurge and returns to the Pleroma. That is the equivalent of Nirvana. I could be wrong, but this is my understanding of it so far.

lol cool, hope it was yummy

great post user, how well are you educated in hermetics? Have you read the emerald tablets and Kybalion?

In a way there is some truth to that. If you see the universe as a pool of resources (just a heap of elements in various configurations) you could call it a collective unconsciousness, since those resources can be used to produce a new being. You take some resources and create a new individual consciousness with it.

presumably it depends on what afterlife you experience, e.g. if you go to hell something tells me you won't get over it, if you go to heaven obviously you'd get over it

in reality you only get one chance to get over things which is why believing in a soul is a cuck ideology where you just put things off hoping god sorts it all out after everyones dead while people shit all over you in your life

There’s no soul. There’s no karma. No cosmic justice. Only cause and effect.

I don't know what your level of understanding is but you will prob like this
youtube.com/watch?v=vjDKJkEWMpc

of course you know to the uninitiated it will sound like speculation but for those educated in the arts so to speak it should make sense to you

not if you pray for them, that is the big secret,

I can help you make sense of this if you want

I know a few things, but of course human intelligence can only go so far when it comes to things like that. Emerald Tablets yes, but I have not taken a swing at the Kybalion yet. One day, but not today.

By the way, no need to mention your Youtube channel, I'm already subscribed to it.

Could we get a Hindu in here please?

there is neither anything before or after death
they only sufferred for as long as they were alive, and after that nothing
you make take solace in that fact

I have a copy on audio book if you want to listen while you do other things here is a link
youtube.com/watch?v=iD9zUJq7L9I

>in reality you only get one chance to get over things which is why believing in a soul is a cuck ideology where you just put things off hoping god sorts it all out after everyones dead while people shit all over you in your life
I'd like to challenge you on this a bit. If a soul is reborn for failing in this life, I would disagree with you about the cuckness of believing that. After all, in one life sometime a being must take a stand and perfect themselves, choosing NOT to put things off and let it be sorted for them elsewhere means an eternity here on this plane (hell?).

this can be proven conclusively to be wrong

Watch the ending of "2001: A Space Odyssey"
Everybody is so confused about what it means but it's just death and the recycling of the soul.

Well the initial proposition may be correct wothout any assumption of reincarnation. But in the case of it occuring, I doubt that suffering in childhool would be any more effecting than in later life at least.

youtube.com/watch?v=HL1qhW6gVAI

And there is deffo a soul

Memory =/= consciousness. Though being a demented soul would be retarded in its own ways.

Thanks Bodhi, I'll keep it in mind whenever I get around to it. I like reading more, but I might try something new.

no prob sometimes I listen to audio books while I astral mediate it can give you some really amazing visions

IN fact I did to the that Thoth podcast and had some really intense visions, I don't like to describe them because there are really no words for it you can only experience it and it is kinda pointless and only meant for you anyway

The imprints will stay with them for a time, but they can be healed. The Spirit will take birth according to it's karmic profile and spiritual connections.

An individual consciousness is indestructible and eternal, however the "Personality" will change over time due to experiences and circumstances.

>The imprints will stay with them for a time, but they can be healed
How do you know this?

I think I understand what you mean, I get the same thing every now and then when I dream at night. So I can see why listening to it would give you such visions.

No, the suffering is a human condition. The flesh and experiences that come with it are exclusive to living as a human.
Those that are fortunate enough to go to Heaven bring the experiences and knowledge with them to be universally shared. Feelings and logic are human conditions and we cannot truly know what is beyond in Heaven until it is seen when our souls merge with the Trinity.
God bless

lucid dreaming can be pretty amazing like your conciseness in two dimensions at once, perhaps it really is, maybe we are at a different frequency when we dream, our brainwaves, I have not looked into it but makes sense from my current understanding

You can look up Michael Persinger's research professor assistant, I forget his name. The idea is part of your mind is transported as a soliton, a self reinforcing wave. Everything in nature recycles, the only way to get around the idea of reincarnation is to think cognition is only a physical affair, and you can write that idea off by self exploring meditation and esp phenomena such as remote viewing and out of body experiences.

Things simply are. No rhyme or reason, no justice or punishment. Every thing that can be, will likely be.

Though experiences like these happen and provide strong etchings onto the face of a spirit. Time is like water running over it and in millions or even billions of years? You may forget it ever even happened. Thus making the event new entirely.

>trinity
Sorry to tell you but the Bible is not what you think it is, it is masonic cipher with only one small piece of truth to it

>Things simply are. No rhyme or reason,
This can be proven conclusively to be false

There is a very strict rhyme and reason to it try this
youtube.com/watch?v=2xkdQvavKyY
and this
youtube.com/watch?v=SYGF25asipc

youtu.be/lVpAuiGgw1k

Yet you didn't do it. Just because there are laws in play and cause and effect doesn't mean there is a reason. At least not a good one.

From what I understand I think it has something to do with the Sun and the Moon and how the light of the Moon is only a reflection of that of the Sun. As a result, it doesn't "burn away" metaphysical things as powerfully as the Sun does during the day. That's why night has always been used for rituals that don't concern the Sun itself.

At least, that's what I think.

That's largely what Buddhists believe, 'you' don't reincarnate but some kind of seed that contains the habits that formed you do. Taoists and proponents of Gurdjieff's 4th way believe that you must do work refining your internal energy so that some of it can pass on. Secret of the Golden Flower talks about this, but its a fairly esoteric text that takes time to decipher.

Do explain the reason then. As I already know this.

>The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul.

>Yet you didn't do it
I cannot show those not willing to look, I do not speculate or assume and will not say anything I cannot prove convulsively

The nature of the mind is to store intense experience as imprints. Just look at people with PTSD. The only way to avoid and/or heal this is to master meditation and prayer.

With the proper concentration and non-grasping mental posture, imprints are naturally cleansed over time and no new ones are formed.

Praying to be healed also works well and puts one into a state of non-grasping at the same time.

Then I ask again, since you've already shown me things I already know. WHAT IS THE REASON?

>A question about all those who believe that consciousness is the soul
they are both different entities.
indiachan.com/boards/india/thread/1914/

All is one
>lawofone.info
They will go into healing and program their next incarnation and it's (hoped for) lessons according to this, i think.

It works differently with kids, but if you got raped you should be able to attain an elightened state where that "trauma" no longer affects you. Everyone who reaches this state knows rape, even those who weren't. You should seek this information on your own.

Cause personally I think you're another one of those esoteric assholes who experienced enlightenment your way and think your way is the only truth.
Though a good explanation of what the reason is may sway me.

As far as I can ever see? Meaning is applied, the reason for all of this cannot be ascertained with out claiming special knowledge.

Interesting, the moons electromagnetism is very different than the sun so this makes a lot of sense. I will look into it, do you have any theories or sources?

Are you asking because you got raped and now want to kill yourself?

Well this can be only speculated at as to the purpose try this suggestion No way to know for sure scientifically to prove to others perhaps that is point. from my experience my synchronicity it certainly appears valid

I think it's in Evola's Hermetic Tradition, but I think I cross-referenced it with the UR group's Introduction to Magic.

ty if I find anything good on the subject I will add it to the channel

I consider the teachings of the Buddha to be enlightened, though lately I've thought that my beliefs are closest to Gnosticism. I haven't heard of Gurdjieff's 4th way. Care to elaborate? As to your comment about Secret of the Golden Flower, perhaps this is a weakness of mine but I tend to dismiss texts and teachers that do not speak plainly. Symbols and statements that must be interpreted seem to just lend themselves to projection of the interpreter and I haven't found them to communicate anything profound yet, if you follow what I'm trying to say.

plottwist: after death nothing happens

>those who believe that consciousness is the soul
Consciousness is as close to the "soul" as anything I can imagine. I'm not a spiritual person, but it's obvious that there's an element to consciousness that goes beyond the 'consciousness is a byproduct of complexity' explanation.(Something most likely tied to some aspect of the physical world we don't yet understand)

Example: We have no reason to believe that a computer simulation of a human brain will produce consciousness, so what makes the physical brain so special?(hint: we don't know)

im waiting

Christianitiy includes possibility of "another chance"

difference between Christianity and Hindu are mostly metaphores

Yet that doesn't PROVE a reasoning. IT merely shows that we are all One.
All this could simply be God playing a game of hide and seek with itself. The reasoning may very well be amusement. Which amounts to a reason as valid turning on a video game.
Or it could be as little as shit posting a meme by God.
I am UTTERLY tired of you newbie esotericists nit picking what is and what isn't. You'd probably have utterly agreed with my statement if I'd switched it out for "We are God experiencing every thing it can conceive."

>Cause personally I think you're another one of those esoteric assholes who experienced enlightenment your way and think your way is the only truth.
this is the exact opposite of reality my friend, in fact most people bitch because I don't give them answers. I do not tell anyone anything I cannot prove conclusively as I have already stated. Perhaps you are one of those assholes that projects his own personality traits into others. Are you upset because I disagreed with or challenged you? You should probably look into this

elaborate user?

I want to share something with you I think you will enjoy, watch this playlist
youtube.com/watch?v=DXGF9UUGD04&list=PLtFnfSc9NwNzMHGZzPYroNJCPDd4Ymjgf

also watch this

how?

I am upset because I said there was no rhyme or reason. Yet you cannot provide one. You only provide that there is a cause and effect.

You don't KNOW the reason, yet acted as if you did. You may not give answers, but you'll sure as shit disagree with what you find to be false about your findings of reality. Which if I throw enough shit against the wall? I could eventually get your answers.

I am mad because you remind me of every other person who tripped some good psychedelics who claim enlightenment. Yet are as rigid in your beliefs in the WHY as a theist. Despite no proof but your likely very sound reasoning, yet failing to realize what is wishful thinking.

>Yet that doesn't PROVE a reasoning
Well there is reasoning this can be proven mathematically the only thing you can't prove is the purpose of the reasoning. There is a creator, nothing in this world is coincidence or by accident, the only question is what is the point of it?
>I am UTTERLY tired of you newbie esotericists
Why do you keep projecting things onto people you know nothing about. This is not how to have an enlightened conversation I am probably twice your age friend and I can promise you more well read and educated and I have put my money where my mouth and put on open display only a fraction of what I know unlike you

also start with the playlist I linked brother

same start here

What I find fascinating about consciousness is how we're unable to prove that it exists, other than we 'experience' it and assume others do as well.

I'm primarily interested in the creation of artificial consciousness. Not something that looks and acts conscious, like some kind of advanced Siri, but something that actually IS conscious by our own engineering.

>I am mad because you remind me of every other person who tripped some good psychedelics who claim enlightenment
Do you know what a Rorschach ink blot test is? I am helping others find the answers they are looking for. Not telling what them what I think but what I can prove. I do not understand what you are doing here other than hindering them and me

How would you ever know that it's conscious without experiencing its consciousness directly? First there would have to be a technology to make direct contact between minds.

You do not seem interested in coming to an understanding so perhaps it is best to end this conversation

> This is not how to have an enlightened conversation I am probably twice your age friend
Experience is gained in the ability to process and use new data given. Perhaps I have dealt with the LSD scene, the Zen scene, the OTO, Chaos Magicians, Road Men, Shamans, Plastic Shamans and the hipster "Woke" types.

Perhaps I'm sick that all of you will leap on what is WRONG instead of what is correct. Most I've encountered will agree with 98% of a statement about reality that will be sound with data and philosophy. Then focus on the equivalent of "I think it tastes like Chicken." And argue that it in fact tastes like frog to the death.

All so you can get fucking ego points and prove your intellectual superiority.

>Why do you keep projecting things onto people you know nothing about.
I may be wrong, it's very possible. Yet I've been known to have an uncanny ability to figure out a person based on a few sentences.

Even here you boast of you being more well read and educated. Yet I wonder if that is true?

Hey OP, Daniel
Humans, everything, experiencing this reality, my reality, all endure their own reflections of their reality on top of this world i constructed, constructed for me by "them" who do not want me, or my people to be free.

I used to question why people got Raped or were the ones to Rape, and because I suffer you see that sentence OP has created because of cause and effect.
I have not been raped. People have tried to rape me, and or molest me.

>where you just put things off hoping god sorts it all out after everyone's dead while people shit all over you in your life

This and other comments in this thread are a reflection of my life.

You must ask yourself what is the "truth."
Question everything. Realize you know nothing.

your answers will be a reflection of the questions you ask.
The more you ponder, the less you will understand.

The point is to break reality. It tries to be correct 100% of the time.

The only way to do it is to break free of the programming, learn that you are in control and that YOU are The Creator, who forgot he was The Creator.

The cost of everyone's freedom is your freedom and sanity.
You're being watched on every level.

Their goal is the destruction of all life on earth.
They let the people do it for them.

If you want to understand it all, you have to lose who you are now.
You will see everything and everyone you love turn on you.
The Programming will make it aware that it knows you're trying to break free and torment you. That's why the matrix movie exist. It says there is ONE person who is the key to save the world, when really it is everyone, but people like this dream world and i dont blame them because if you try to break free you'll suffer
Wipe memories
impossible outcome happening to you
Mock you with the things that make you YOU, and project itself as the world stripping you of your freedom more and more
the only answer i can give you is to look inside you. Deep inside you. Have Faith

Interesting, are we not able to prove it exists because we exist and experience it? Seems proof enough, I think therefore I am and all.

Creating artificial consciousness, this is very complex for me as a computer scientist because I know it is all one and zeroes, code if then etc. But is this not our own consciousness also? I don't of any test that can be done, first you have to have an operational definition of what consciousnesses even is, this is a job for a philosopher to determine I think

>How would you ever know that it's conscious without experiencing its consciousness directly?
That's what I hope science eventually answers. There's no reason we should ever come to the conclusion that consciousness exists, except that we each claim to 'experience' it. We should simply be a series of chemical reactions, and even with the ability to sense the world there's no line of logic that would lead anything observing from the outside to believe that these series of physical reactions are actually being experienced by something.(We don't assume this about plants or waterfalls, for example. Why should we assume this about animals unless we're projecting ourselves onto them?)

>Perhaps I'm sick that all of you will leap on what is WRONG instead of what is correct
You are projecting again. I do not think this conversation will be productive for either of us

I am calling you on your utter bullshit. I am telling you. Your ego is still massively present.

Projecting.
Yeah.
Go fuck yourself you intellectually dishonest sack of trash.

best post imo yet thank you for this

they have all eternity to heal psychological damage.
if they can't, then consciousness ain't their biggest problem.

>as a computer scientist because I know it is all one and zeroes, code if then etc. But is this not our own consciousness also?
I would argue that a perfect simulation of a human brain in a computer would merely "act" as if it were conscious. Thought experiment: What if all the calculations to compute the simulation were done by hand with paper and pencil, would it produce consciousness as we were writing the symbols down? I would argue no. Consciousness is not symbol manipulation.

Far as your little meme. Some times you can't let go of a grudge. It is what makes up the I.

>I would argue that a perfect simulation of a human brain in a computer would merely "act" as if it were conscious
Perhaps this is what we are doing? This I think the Buddha call fetter of the mind, an endless rabbit hole not worth pondering. Do you know we are in a simulation already yet?

Also this conversation won't go any where. As you are the formless type of person that will never commit to any thing but directly. Yet stand for nothing.

>Perhaps this is what we are doing?
I would argue that if this were the case, we would be more like the Philosophical Zombie.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Despite the fact that I look and act as if I were a Philosophical Zombie to everyone around me, I have my own reason to believe that I am not. I just wish science could prove one way or another, really.

Perhaps there really is no difference.

I generally disagree with you, but there have been times that I've thought along those lines. My basic disagreement is that I would point out to you that your mind precedes your experience of external things you would call chemical reactions, and such. In other words it is more likely to be true. I dug this up for you:

headless.org/on-having-no-head.htm

Please read and consider. I originally read it in Douglas Hofstadter's "The Mind's I" but I pulled my copy out and found it online.

>I look and act as if I were a Philosophical Zombie to everyone around me, I have my own reason to believe that I am not
I lol'd at this, I ponder this from time myself. Like this guy is he just a NPC a test? I was in a thread just an hour with an user that is this thread where he was saying the exact opposite of this just as angrily and sure of what he was experiencing and believed . It is interesting to watch, these obstacles are in the game to prevent us from the prize, the arcanum I think. I saw a stufy where it said people are only really alpha wave conscious like 15% of the day, they act rather than react. I have been a Buddhist for over 20 years so I am fervent practitioner of mindfulness which has obviously given me a leg up in this matrix, this illusion. But I agree with your sentiment seems pointless to ponder unless you enjoy it that is

Does anyone agree with what the person is saying Out of curiosity

or any of his other post, I am generally interested in subjective opinion of my own reality and awareness atm. Are his accusation and conclusions projections or does he have cause I am not seeing?