Thinking long term, as in 20-25 years from now, what benefit would a complete wall actually have considering that most illegal immigrants enter the country legally then just don’t leave?
It was estimated that 200,000 people entered the country by illegally crossing the border in 2015. Of those 200,000 how many do you think would have been unable to cross the border if a wall had been in place? What would the actual difference have been considering that with a blowtorch most of the prototype walls could be compromised in under two hours?
So now to deal with the other aspect of this issue, people who enter the country legally then stay beyond their visa. It seems to me that this has one of two scenarios: (1) Republicans largely end these programs in favor of smaller merit-based systems, in which case the wall is repundant and the larger problem has already been addressed (2) Republicans lose control of Congress and Democrats continue these programs, in which case the wall is pointless
I just feel as though of all of Trump’s promises this is the one that he should sacrifice as a bartering maneuver. It’s a bad idea, like trying to empty a pool with a gold-and gemstone butterfly net. This project will cost tens of billions of dollars. Construction and maintainance coupled with buying private landowners out of their property is an expensive endeavor. I just don’t feel like it’s worth it in the long term.
It's more symbolic than anything. It's telling Mexico we are tired of shitskins entering this country and you are not welcome here
Alexander Nelson
Its symbolic - even if it doesn't physically stop anything.
Much like taking the stance Trump has through his campaign into office has reduced border crossings significantly with literally nothing else being done but taking the issue seriously.
It shows America takes this seriously and you do things the right way or there will be consequences.
Zachary Smith
Okay that’s interesting and all. But what just did was admit that functionally and practically the wall is a terrible idea and you can’t defend the basic purpose of a wall for this idea. This is a 10 billion dollar symbol we are talking about. That’s demanding an average of nearly $30 from every American just for initial construction. No other country is going to interpret this as us taking our border security seriously, it’s just going to be viewed as an expensive isolationist tool.
I would very much prefer that the government spend money on tangible benefits over useless symbols. There must be cheaper symbols or better methods of conveying that we take our security seriously.
Daniel Morgan
It would be quite easy to scale those walls. They will need to have electronic sensors on them to alert people of a breach, and then you would need a rapid reaction force to apprehend them along the whole 2000 miles of it. It's all possible, but is it cost effective? I've yet to hear of any realistic way of truly extracting the money from Mexico. It will interesting to see how the politics play out.
Henry Brown
I got your answer right here.
First off, we're entering a new American century. In this century the world goes to shit. Borders into Latin America will be porous, but our wall will block the zombie hordes from just bum rushing us, which will happen when there is no clean water to drink south of El Paso.
Secondly, we're going to man these walls, and cripple drug traffickers. Again, think long term. You're not getting into the US to sell meth, cocaine, marijuana, etc. Not by land, air, or sea.
10, even 50 billion dollars is nothing compared to gang related drug trafficking costs. The wall pays for itself in no time at all. We're restoring the US to 1950s hegemony. In 20 years, when it's all dydtopian shit beyond our walls, you'll be grateful for this 10 billion dollar investment.
Lincoln Fisher
>most illegal immigrants enter the country legally you what?
Samuel Stewart
The wall would put a huge dent in smuggling of humans and contraband. The effects on the heroin trade and the cartels would be enormous.
Luke Sullivan
>It was estimated that 200,000 people entered the country by illegally crossing the border in 2015. That's enough to justify the wall in my eyes.
Nicholas Phillips
in hungary a fence and regular border patrol stopped 100% of all illegal mass migration. to think that a wall will not demotivate illigals coming in is not sound thinking. once mexicans understand that illegals are not welcome they will be demotivated to come to the us.
Evan Myers
>This is a 10 billion dollar symbol we are talking about. That’s demanding an average of nearly $30 from every American just for initial construction. No other country is going to interpret this as us taking our border security seriously, it’s just going to be viewed as an expensive isolationist tool. lol is that a big number or something
James Gutierrez
>What would the actual difference have been considering that with a blowtorch most of the prototype walls could be compromised in under two hours?
A blowtorch and a few hours is a way bigger hurdle to deal with than a free walk across an empty field, user.
Arguments that basically boil down to, "Well a wall can technically be gotten around" are all implicitly predicated on the assumption that the wall itself is going to be the only obstacle. This assumption is erroneous. A wall is a tool, not a standalone solution; give border patrol that tool, and it's totally reasonable to believe that they'll be able to keep illegal crossings by and large under control.
Stopping somewhere in the ballpark of 200,000 illegals per year, and by extension the couple hundred thousand more they'll give birth to on top of that, is a HUGE deal. There's no reason to believe that a couple thousand miles worth of simple wall-building would be more expensive than supporting that ballooning population.
Evan Thompson
About half come on a legal visa and don't leave. About half just walk right in illegally. It's a lot more practical and less messy to just make it too difficult to just walk right in.
The visa overstay issue can have it's own solutions but should be dealt with too, but don't use it to try and minimize the millions that will continue to just walk right in as a dishonest debate tactic.
Ian Rogers
The wall is meant to stop the casual/"easy" border crossings of which there are something like 250k/year last I heard.
There will still be a small number that get through by other unusual means (protip: this already happens today).
Jaxson Smith
you shouldn't ask yourself how many people crossed in a given year, but how many MILLIONS have crossed over the years. the wall is a permanent structure and it will stop MILLIONS of people from crossing in the future.
the issue of overstayed visas is a separate issue and also a problem. they need to stop issuing multi-visit visas that last for years. they hand a ton of these out to people in third world countries and it's obviously a problem. the tourist may be a low risk in the year he's issued a visa, but a year or two later he's broke and unemployed in his home country and his visa to the US is still good.
other issue is chain migration.
you need it all. there's no part of the equation that can be sacrificed.
the real issue here is that the Senate despite being controlled by Republicans is refusing to pass laws. they are demanding 60 votes when there is no such constitutional requirement.
that's why you have these stupid shutdowns. the founding fathers could have foreseen this. that's why they said all you need is a simple majority, not a 60 vote majority. what a fucking joke.
Elijah Parker
>It was estimated that 200,000 people entered the country by illegally crossing the border in 2015 In 2016 there were 415,816 border apprehensions, so that's not even counting how many made it in. Where did you get 200,000 from your ass? cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics
Brayden Russell
And how many billions do illegals cost us taxpayers? Please tell me you’re not one of those “illegals bring a net positive” fags
Landon Cook
Why don’t Americans don’t just enslave al the illegals. Strip them of their humans rights, and make it legal to rape, mutilate kill and even eat. Would give new meaning to Mexican Restaurant.
Kevin Hughes
see the answer: a lot
Carson Anderson
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Sebastian Williams
>And how many billions do illegals cost us taxpayers?
someone hammered out the figures at around 120 Billion USD per year , adjusted for tax earnings.
Kevin Rogers
Damn I knew it was a fuckton, but OP convinced me that it’s not worth it to spend a portion of that on the wall since it won’t solve every single immigration issue.
Jose Sullivan
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Easton Foster
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Ryder Ward
lmao are you trying to spot birds?
Sebastian Torres
People who cross illegally are different from visa overstayers. Even if we assume that illegal immigration will continue but with different methods, the people who come to the United States will be generally more educated, likely to know at least some english, from a more diverse pool of countries (India, China, the Philippines, Brazil, etc.) And will be more of the upper crust -not the elite, obviously, but it will be people who could pass screening and afford to travel to the United States- than just the poorest illiterate peasants from Central America.
That, in and by itself, would be a big gain.
Jackson Kelly
>Isolationist tool Sounds fantastic.
>prefer that the government spend money on tangible benefits >spend >benefits >War on Poverty starts in 1964 >average 22 billion spent per year for 50+ years Do you have any idea how much is already spent on benefits? Fuck your dead moms cunt you fucking marxist. All you had to say is that you would rather have the govt not spend money needlessly, but inhumans like you just can help milking the people for more.
Luis Parker
>defeated by a blowtorch that's why you fucking shoot them as they're trying to get in
