Hi Sup Forums. As communism is still looked upon as a serious ideology, i want to understand how it's supposed to work. I understand that it involves equal pay for all members of society, independent on class and education. What i don't understand is how you are supposed progress as a society when members of this society don't recieve any kind of reward for being efficient, as they recieve an equal amount of pay anyways. An example. A farmer invents a new and more efficient method of harvesting his corn. Ususally in a capitalist society, this farmer would have been able to make more money because of his more efficient methods. In a communist society, however, the farmer would not have been at an advantage even if he was more efficient, because he would still recieve pay equal to all other farmers using the old method of harvesting corn. That's why, in a communist society, people are a lot less likely to invent new things or new ways of doing things, as they would not benefit anyways. This also makes it more likely that the people will be slacking off instead of doing their work properly, as it would not affect their pay.
Also >food
How is communism supposed to be superior to capitalism, or any other ideology? Does it even work?
>i want to understand how it's supposed to work. It doesn't
Blake Brooks
Nice meme. Then why are there still commies in the world? Some of it can probably be blamed on stupidity or ignorance, but i don't believe that every single commie is clueless when it comes to politics. Some of them must have a logical reason for being a communist. I just want to know why.
Bentley Peterson
In communism everyone shares everything, so the best way to live is to do a little less and get a share of the output from the most productive members of the collective.
It's a race to starvation because no one wants to work.
Jack Jackson
>Then why are there still commies in the world? Because they claim it was not "Real Communisim" that was implemented
Jacob Price
I know some people say that it was "state capitalism" or something like that, but if there has never been real communism, then what is real communism? How does it work differently from this "state capitalism"? Hoping that some commies will answer that in this thread.
Liam Foster
It rewards elaborate backstabbing over literally everything else. If you aren't good at that then you will be a worker, prisoner, or grave.
Xavier Wilson
>Hi Sup Forums. As communism is still looked upon as a serious ideology, i want to understand how it's supposed to work. I understand that it involves equal pay for all members of society
equal and free access to all goods produced. there's no 'pay'
>don't recieve any kind of reward for being efficient, as they recieve an equal amount of pay anyways
aka, the incentive problem. unsolved publicly. in history, you're gulag'd and/or shot for working to slow or failure in general. >in a communist society, people are a lot less likely to invent new things or new ways of doing things, as they would not benefit anyways. This also makes it more likely that the people will be slacking off instead of doing their work properly, as it would not affect their pay
old soviet 'joke', "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work"
>How is communism supposed to be superior to capitalism, or any other ideology? Does it even work?
you are super new. no. no it doesn't. marx revisionism (corporatism, syndicalism et al) solves these problems by forming groups around anything besides economics, then the group becomes the end and purpose of the economics instead of the other way around as in communism and capitalism.
the main advantage of capitalism is that free exchange is the most accurate way to assess price. capitalism is somewhat cancer prone, tho. it grows really fast for no reason in useless directions. this is the basis for the central direction of corporatism.
all politics ends in oligarchy, in case you're wondering.
Bentley Brooks
It is not supposed to have any money, and nor a government because the dictatorship of the proletariat was supposed to be temporary, and in real life in the soviet union they actually just took their price signals from the global market to know how to price things.
Jaxson Collins
>Does it even work? It doesn't
Ayden Hill
They want free shit. It doesn't work. It is a highly authoritarian form of government. Might as well bring back Monarchy, it works better.
Grayson Campbell
Good response. Thanks. Posted this on infinitechan aswell, but the only answers i got were (((da jooos)))-related.
Gabriel Murphy
>equal pay for all members of society, independent on class and education not true. doctor earns more than lawyer which earns more than pub servant which earns more than unskilled laborer.
all big business and factories are owned by gov/people. you can have a milk bar in private ownership, that is about it.
Carter Ross
Communists >"reee why do some people get rich while I don't" >"this ideology where everyone gets the same amount of money regardless of their work is appealing to me"
In human history we've only ever seen our productivity increase in the long term, never decrease. Suppose this trend continues. As you automate shit to the limit, in the end, one person's worth of working becomes enough to feed the rest of humanity. That's when communism happens. Seeing how there's no NEED to work anymore everyone does whatever he wants. Seeing how there's no scarcity anymore everyone gets "paid" exactly the amount he needs. What you're talking about is probably socialism - a silly attempt to implement a caricature of communism without first fulfilling the necessary conditions.
>b-but who's gonna build the robots You can automate the process of automation. >b-but you can't avoid scarcity because humans will just breed to their new malthusian limit Not if they're all gay they won't. Need I remind you that Soviet Union was among the first countries in the world if not the first to recognize a man's right to plow another man's butthole? >b-but there won't be any incentive left for innovation or just doing anything really if you remove the need to work and the meaning of luxury Yet somehow the ancient Greeks were pretty innovative despite their philosophizing having no immediate practical implementation. Hint: the cash doesn't drive human genius - it merely ensures that he doesn't starve. >b-but it'll take thousands of years before we're anywhere near the level of technological prowess to enable this sort of society That it will.
Andrew Butler
desu i disagree completely with 100% equal pay, but it shouldn't extremely unbalanced
the incentive would be the same
Carson Fisher
>communism is still looked upon as a serious ideology not by anybody worth their weight in salt, op.
Jose Morales
Every single time a communist society fails, all the leftists in the world bitch and moan until their capitalist goverment directs a lot of money at the communist shithole, calling the whole process "foreign aid". That's why places like North Korea or Cuba are still communist.
If anything, it's those who are not communist the ones who are being stupid: why the hell a nation should subsidize a direct competitor with their money? Is it really necessary to keep democracy in it's current form alive and squander the wealth of a nation on that exact same nation's enemies because traitorious leftards are a big voting bloc and their votes have the same value of the vote of loyal citizens? Communism is all about parasitism: so communist nations do their thing and parasitize capitalist nations. It was always like this, and things will continue to go like this until democracy with universal suffrage is the norm and the majority of the world population still thinks that laughing in the face of a parasite who wants shit for free is morally wrong.
Andrew Perry
...
Michael Morales
>What i don't understand is how you are supposed progress as a society when members of this society don't recieve any kind of reward for being efficient, as they recieve an equal amount of pay anyways. Communism is an END GAME social organization. A Communist society is defined by THREE primary characteristics: >Society is no longer organized by comparing bank accounts, and you no longer "give people pieces of paper called money to have them do anything you want". >No more class hierarchy, everyone is economically equal >The above two are possible because society produces a hyper surplus of stuff so that money and economic hierarchy no longer make any sense. With that definition, "real communism" really hasn't ever existed, and no actual communists have ever claimed the contrary. What some have claimed is the realization of "actually existing SOCIALISM", meaning that their variety of socialism was the best that could be hoped for in the existing historical conditions.
Members of Communist PARTIES try to gain control over countries and use SCIENCE to maximize their production. Because the faster you maximize production, the faster you get to communism.
The Communist Party doesn't care about any of your obsolete moral values and traditions and shit, because he knows those will all be forgotten and replaced when the new technology and economic paradigm arises from increases in production. The Capitalist otoh only cares about your morals and shit to the extent that he can profit by exploiting them. The Capitalist wants to maximize his personal profit, but the Communist wants to maximize a society's total production.
>Therefore, to answer your question: If we were to ever get to real Communism, there wouldn't BE any more "efficient methods of harvesting corn". We would have ALREADY used SCIENCE to determine the most efficient methods, and it is because we are using the most efficient methods that we can enjoy the hypersurplus that allows communism.
Angel Gutierrez
>That's why, in a communist society, people are a lot less likely to invent new things or new ways of doing things, as they would not benefit anyways. This also makes it more likely that the people will be slacking off instead of doing their work properly, as it would not affect their pay. Think of it like this: Humans didn't always organize their societies based on "price signals" and monetary exchange, we didn't always have currency and banks, this is NOT the "natural" way of human interaction, capitalism is NOT "human nature". You are at your "most natural" when you interact with friends and family, and you don't pay your family member to pass you the ketchup. The use of money is a step in history used to keep people honest as human interactions with people further outside our immediate family expand to facilitate developments and increases in production. Communism is the END GAME, where you've already learned all the "new ways" of doing things, all the efficiencies and most productive methods to produce. You don't need to monetarily incentivize people to discover new things since it has all been discovered already. You don't care if someone "slacks off" since you're already producing more than everyone needs, with robots too!
Think of how monetary incentivization works in the first place: Someone does some work, you give them some pieces of paper they can give to someone else to get them to do some work, and hopefully they value the other person's work more than what they could make for themselves. In a future world with a hyper-surplus, this formula breaks down. (If 1 man can produce 1 trillion widgets for nothing, and society can only use 900 billion widgets, then all those widgets are practically worth nothing on the market, even though society needs them to function - and the same crisis will eventually happen for every commodity and the entire economy).
Luis Miller
"real communism" is literal government slavery of the people or if it's an AnCom then "real communism" is everyone fulfilling roles in society voluntarily and somehow it'll al just work out.
Eli Long
Communism is a serious ideology?
Eli Lewis
>As communism is still looked upon as a serious ideology Sure, if you're a high school student who has no real-world knowledge of how economic systems work.
Levi Phillips
>supposed to work Its not really, unless you count utterly destroying a nations culture and economy. It works perfectly for that
Connor Flores
How can you consider a hammer or a toothbrush a personal property, when in cummunism there's no property? What is difference between personal property and private property? If private property covers means of production, what stops me from disassembling a mean of production and claim the parts to be my personal property? Why would you waste resource producing more than say (hypothetically) 1 hammer/toothbrush per 7 persons?
How can one cultivate and harvest crops to personal use, when there's no personal property to be used for farming in cummunism? How do you allocate public land for this personal farming? Who allocates the public land used by the collective?
The ten Planks of Communist manifesto: #8 "Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture." > Equal obligation How can a stateless and non-hierarchical society enforce this? > Your work-time is equivalent to everybody else's work-time Am I forced to sit and drawn hentai for as long as others work in factory, if I don't want to do manual labour as an artist? If "... each according to his needs", what stops me claiming to acquire 70% of goods to suffice my needs? How can anyone else define how my needs are sufficed? How can a collective deny me coming over demand 70% of goods that others have gathered through hard manual labour, while I can provide them only hentai sketches? How is Theft defined in cummunist world, when there's no property in non-hierarchical society you can steal from others?
Brody Ward
> but it shouldn't extremely unbalanced explain me how should the payment system be organised then
William Powell
But it doesn't work It's a great idea not to have a ruling class of wealthy elites, but it just turns into the ruling class of those who decide who gets what in a communistic society. The problems it claims to solve are simply inherent to any social system, from an island with 200 people to a nation with 200 million. Capitalism is the only system that acknowledges the default behaviour of humans and civilises it.
Oliver Sanchez
Just the same way pigs fly. I guess boredom could convince a man to do it. Build a giant sling or winged exoskeleton and let it go. But somebody flying pigs consistently for the sake of it will just run out of pigs eventually.
Isaac Turner
> (OP) >In human history we've only ever seen our productivity increase in the long term, never decrease. Suppose this trend continues. As you automate shit to the limit, in the end, one person's worth of working becomes enough to feed the rest of humanity. That's when communism happens. Seeing how there's no NEED to work anymore everyone does whatever he wants. Seeing how there's no scarcity anymore everyone gets "paid" exactly the amount he needs.
nope. civilization, and the human personality will just decay without the struggle for existence. to 'do whatever you want' is to cease to be.
Death Squared: The Explosive Growth and Demise of a Mouse Population docdro.id/QiqPNFr
Anthony Williams
have multipliers for payment, stuff that is needed has bigger multipliers
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liguidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
----------------------------------------- Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis
>Sdage for Not real gommunism. Move on do nexd coundry XDDdDDD
Stop thinking of communism as something designed to actually change society. Start thinking of communism as something desigend to spread the ideology of communism. Promises of utopia, perfect world = good spread. Inability to mantain the utopia = good sustainability (as a meme). If the goal was actually achievable, a lot of dissenters would drop off at the "good enough" stage. "Good enough" varies among people, but see e.g. the scandinavian social democracy model, probably good enough for like 99% of human population. And that already exist, doesn't need any revolts.
Carson Garcia
what kind of cummie are you if you're promoting hierarchical system
Nolan Carter
Communism is designed so that everyone goes hungry all at once, when the corporation behind the food supply goes bankrupt because somehow, that business model wasn't profitable enough.
