Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage and the socialist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
All forms of """Communism""" have been state capitalism. Prove me wrong, statist.
Robert Edwards
Forgot my flag.
Bentley Sanchez
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Joshua Russell
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Adam Baker
I'm waiting for someone to post it so I can save it. I was there when this thread came up and could have done it! but alas no memes were loaded.
Ryder Cook
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Angel Clark
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Hunter Butler
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William Hall
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Jace Johnson
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Grayson Turner
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Jordan Campbell
Communism is shit, goodnight.
Jack Anderson
whats the punishment for just being a eater and not contributing?
Cameron Collins
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Liam Clark
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Ayden Perez
Ukrainians deserved worse.
James Adams
Forceful feminization and turning into communal cumdumbster for at least period of 2 years.
Landon Hernandez
Starve in your communist imagination so you can spare the rest of the world.
Chase Sullivan
cry some more
Easton Stewart
Kulaks deserved it.
Benjamin Moore
a commie will defend this..
Isaac Jackson
If any serious communists would like debate please reply. I have yet to see a serious communist defend their positions
Bentley Nguyen
without the jew there is no communism
Jason Barnes
Why should I have to defend my positions since they are irrelevant until communist movements gain any serious power? Would it not be a moot point to argue about something hypothetical?
Hudson Gonzalez
Without Marxism there is no national socialism. Without syndicalism there is no national syndicalism leading to fascism.
Parker Roberts
Fuck off and die
Ethan Martinez
What's the point of this thread then?
Jackson Hill
Discussion of Marxism-Leninism as ideology.
Eli Ward
Then let's discuss it!
Carson Nguyen
ok go
Christopher Johnson
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Brody Allen
It's an ideology that, even on paper does not work
Liam Garcia
Elaborate bit more so I could have some point to contradict.
Jonathan Wilson
Why are you here?
sage
Nolan Martinez
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Brandon Ross
This ^
Mason Allen
Physchological Chemistry. People are naturally greedy and therefore every single thing they do is done to support either two goals: Making themselves feel important, or to add to their greed. Because of this, total equality, even on the basis of "To each according to their needs" is impossible as people will actively seek to gain more than they need
Cameron Gomez
why not all the shit you have is because of Marxism. No child labor laws? Marxism. 8 Hour work week? Marxism. Weekends and holidays. MArxism. Minimum wages? Marxism. Work Safety laws? Marxism etc etc all done through labor activism and socialist agitation
Thomas Reed
>First they say it's never been tried, then they say it's been here all along. Well, which is it?
Oliver Diaz
I dont support any of those
Wyatt Young
Party demands it. My social class demands it. My co-workers demand it. The entire development of history,philosophy and society demands this glorious revolution and the ideology that can carry her.
Carter Richardson
state mandated
Ian Kelly
Communism is the stage after capitalism where there are no economic or social ineqailites it by default hasn't happened. Even the USSR never said they are communist they always said they are building socialism
Camden Hughes
People are also naturally co-operative, we form communes operate as collective units etc. We help each other in times of need, we are also utilitarian species. To crudely point humans as simply greedy is not realistic since evolutionary psychology itself dictates variation in social behavior for the sake of survival.
Andrew Jones
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Kevin Garcia
Come on over here and quit debating this autistic post each time some kike splooges on our board
Juan Williams
but the working classes are going increasingly right wing, and they understand that your shit just keeps them from moving up the ranks
Kayden Rodriguez
but evolutionary psychology also says that hierarchies are integral to humans
Justin Smith
They aren't going right wing as in they want more right wing economics. They want their national and culture spooks. Nobody wants more economic and social inequality on the contrary.
Marx was very clear when he said that capitalism itself erodes nation and culture. Capitalism will kill off all the things you like eventually and inevitably.
William Morales
Except when it didn't so the marxists spent 100 years trying to force it and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy....
Gavin Collins
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Jonathan Young
marx was a hypocrite and amazingly wrong about capitalism, communism is about destroying social hierarchies, that includes the nation, and less taxes is pretty good
Andrew Long
wait, IT WASN'T SAVED?!?!?!?! It fucking well should have been, I hadn't laughed like that in days.
Nathaniel Turner
Swings of popular support have throughout the entirety of human history have been changing form the left-wing to the right-wing and vice versa. In revolutionary France during the left-wing was at its strongest, only to be stomped by napoleon. This changed again during the napoleonic wars and turned around in 1850`s towards more liberal and left-wing positions all the way until 1870`s with the rise of Paris commune etc. We are not opposed to hierarchy itself but oppressive hierarchies that are harmful for the social cohesion of social units.
Oliver Murphy
We cooperate out of our own individual self interest.
Ayden Barnes
No you just don't understand dialectics. Marx said that the more capitalism you have the more you will have people demanding equality which is what's happening. There is no cultural Marxism there's cultural capitalism. He was in favor of free trade and globalism because capitalism itself creates conditions for change. All the things you don't like are capitalism. PC culture is just an extension of inoffensive corporate culture everywhere in society. Homosexuality and libertine sexual attitudes are all due to capitalism because you make major profits selling sex, all the libertarians and most conservatives love and support the buttsex now likewise it was Capitalist countries that instituted all that social change
Ayden Taylor
>This >Oy vey communism isn't coming into existence to we must cripple capitalism by adding a (((central bank))), turn the economy into a massive centrally regulated marked, and waste money on useless bullshit while spewing propaganda to the population via mandatory state education. It's actually amazing that the US economy is still limping along despite all the Marxist bullshit.
Dylan Baker
Remember the one great thing about communism boys? >it's great for weight loss
Ethan Barnes
if it swings back and forth how do you reach the conclusion that society wants communism but boyokek all hierarchies are expresions of power which is oppressive and that's the reason everybody should be equal, is commies 101
Christian Peterson
The US government accounts for around a quarter of the US GDP. This is not capitalism. The governemnt making a fourth of the economy is not a free market no matter how much you wish it was.
Isaiah Watson
see you just admitted to being against nationalism
Elijah Bell
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Jason Walker
> oppressive hierarchies Is there an easy definition what what constitues one or the other? > inb4 every capitalist hierarchy, but no other hierarchies like parents, managers, coaches, sports teams etc due to some arbitrary reason no marxist can agree on > all the things you don't like are capitalism According to you. You talk of dialectics and ignore 19th and 20th century history.... Not only is that amazing, but the sheer obvious decisions that they make that confuse everyone can easily be explained by the marxists behin them deliberately wanting to fuck the system > why are they printing trillions and dropping interest rates to 0? > why do they keep overregulating every industry to the point that the economy cannot adapt and is stagnating? Don't they know how harmful 10 layers of bureaucracy are? > why are they implementing all these unsustainable welfare programs that clearly incentivize people to leech in greater numbers?
Christian Barnes
no muh gobmnt spending means nothing. Capitalism=/= private industry and property there's a system that defends and maintains that property you need an army , you need laws tarrifs customs duties central banks ant-trust laws and shit since the begging plus you need to spend money on education (Adam Smith advocated for massive government spending on education but less so on defense) then you need to buy off the lowest strata with welfare so they don't revolt and fuck everything up etc
Ian Green
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Nolan Flores
what the fuck is this shit? this is Sup Forums not /leftypol/ GTFO NIGGERS REEEEE
John Jenkins
Gayest fucking thread on 4 Chan
Lincoln Richardson
Youre a huge faggot
Christopher Cox
Wrong
Easton Carter
I'm not against nationalism per se. Nationalism began as a 19th century left wing thing tho with you know popular sovereignty France the Jacobins against feudalism etc. Capitalism will kill off nationalism tho. Look at Spain is it sovereign? No it's integrated into the EU system and the Atlanticist system the capitalist system did this and Nationalism today just means plz less brown people basically
Jacob Parker
Is morality subjective or is there a moral absolute?
Zachary Collins
Begone commie scum. Your only salvation shall be terminal velocity!!
Jack Cook
souldn't capitalism profit off of national sentiment and sell trinkets i.e. maga hats, abd you want globalism so gou care not about nations
Gavin Long
He's right you know
Matthew Long
yes and? You can buy your maga hats and your swastika flags made in China if there's a demand it will be met one way or another no? Capitalism encourages the concentration of profits which leads to concentration of resources and control national capitalists can't compete with transnational corporate entities and those will inevitably cuck the local ones
Ryan Hall
>plz less brown people Yes That's what I want
Lincoln Wood
couldn't the government just put tariffs or protectionist taxes? and people could just buy local product as well, there's been a rise of artisan product here in spain
Justin Bailey
> national capitalists can't compete with transnational corporate entities They can, large entities are at the risk of being to slow to adapt to new innovations/challenges and too large to fill smaller niches but the big thing is from a Libertarian perspective, these are the result of people using the state to benefit with justified violence as their backing, we stop the state from creating corporations and you don't get this issue in the same way you only get natural flexible competition that's constantly in flux.
Matthew Martin
No, the variation in ability and needs is recognized within the ideological framework. All hierarchies are not oppressive for the ideology for example, dictatorship of the proletariat is not oppressive.
Jordan Powell
Morality is extension of social contract.
Oliver Johnson
> recognized within the ideological framework Where? > All hierarchies are not oppressive Yeah but which ones tho......like how do we decide?
Jeremiah Kelly
>Where? "to each according to their need from each according to their ability" >Yeah but which ones tho......like how do we decide?
Dialectical materialism.
Caleb Kelly
Nigger are you retarded? Fascism has been around for thousands of years
Jordan Sanchez
so nows a dictatorship is not oppressive because it agrees with you, the variation is recognized but everything is valued the same leading to bs like labor theory of value
Eli Ross
Commi shill
Oliver Garcia
A contract is a binding agreement between two or more parties. What are the terms of the contract, and how is the contract enforced?
Caleb Reed
Neither, since fascism in its current ideological framework was born in 1920`s.
Brandon Price
I'm not like against any of that or anything it's jsut theoretical shit about what could be tho. In practice concentration of capital leads to a concentration of power where large entities eliminate competition from below and their interests begin to dominate everything including what the state does obviously you can try to break up entities that are too powerful ( see antitrust laws that lolberts dislike) but it will just re-start the process it's jsut plutocratic conflicts within capitalism until whatever interest group wins and begins to shill their interests.
Christian Gomez
Marx was a retard and he came up with a retarded theory.
Justin Reed
dialectical materialism it's pretty useless when you have things more complex than a potato due to it's rejection of the mind and soul and it' fixation on sensation
Aiden Fisher
LTV does not value all labor from same standpoint. Read capital volume 2 before rambling on subject that you clearly have no idea about. Social contract predates and overules consent of the current subject to it. Terms are simple, state is formed to end war against all, whereby the subject(citizenry) trust all power in society to the sovereign(state apparatus). It is enforced trough the monopoly on violence that state apparatus holds.
Brody Rogers
Dialectical materialism is not fixated on sensation but the realm of materialism within scientific socialism.
Evan Howard
but that problem was created by socialists to guarantee protection from the consumer, and it' relevant because protectionist taxes have been put inplace before, and since it requires significantly less effort than going commie is a more workable solution, you are presenting your system as this thing that fixes everything just cause
Michael Bell
Yes read commie propaganda
Aaron Baker
Even so, Marx is still vital for our understanding of capital and market economies and his theories are still applied in modern economics(return of investment for example).
Thomas Taylor
Not
Jayden Moore
Well we have reached peak argument. Seems like its time for me to leave this thread.
