Americans don't realise this is a satire

>Americans don't realise this is a satire

if you try to satirize something and just end up making it look appealing you're not a very good satirist

>Robert Heinlein’s original 1959 science-fiction novel was militaristic, if not fascistic. So I decided to make a movie about fascists who aren’t aware of their fascism. Robocop was just urban politics – this was about American politics. As a European it seemed to me that certain aspects of US society could become fascistic: the refusal to limit the amount of arms; the number of executions in Texas when George W Bush was governor.

>It’s an idiotic story: young people go to fight bugs. So I felt the human characters should have a comic-book look. Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned, but I was looking for the prototype of blond, white and arrogant, and Casper Van Dien was so close to the images I remembered from Leni Riefenstahl’s films. I borrowed from Triumph of the Will in the parody propaganda reel that opens the film, too. I was using Riefenstahl to point out, or so I thought, that these heroes and heroines were straight out of Nazi propaganda. No one saw it at the time. I don’t know whether or not the actors realised – we never discussed it. I thought Neil Patrick Harris arriving on the set in an SS uniform might clear it up.


>I drew on the Normandy landings, too: there’s a certain retrograde aspect to the spaceships. Phil Tippett – the genius who made ED209, Robocop’s rogue robot – took care of the special effects. He’s extremely clever with movement: he made these arachnids so well-done and animalistic. Nobody else I knew could do something so difficult, with hundreds of insects in one shot.

>There was so much regime change at Columbia Pictures at the time that we slipped through the net. When the executives finally saw it, they said: “Their flag – it’s a Nazi flag!” I said, “No … it’s completely different colours.”

Name one (1) bad thing about Fascism.

its bad

>But they moved it from a July release to September, because they thought Air Force One was more commercial. [Producer] Jon Davison said: “It will never make its money back.” He saw there was a problem with the American audience better than I had.

>A Washington Post editorial warned Americans about the movie because, it said, it was made by two neo-Nazis: me and [screenwriter] Ed Neumeier. It helped destroy it, along with the word of mouth. It dropped 50% in the second week, which was unheard of at the time. With a title like Starship Troopers, people were expecting a new Star Wars. They got that, but not really: it stuck in your throat. It said: “Here are your heroes and your heroines, but by the way – they’re fascists.”

It's extractive and stands in the way economic progress and creative destruction

Um, how about all the, y'know, mass murder?

Literally no one realizes this was a satire

>it seemed to me that certain aspects of US society could become fascistic: the refusal to limit the amount of arms

Please tell me I'm just misunderstanding the point here. This was written by a grown, adult human. Surely nobody would actually think that by NOT taking away people's guns, that makes you a fascist.

Russians don't realise this is satire. British satire too, the best kind.

boy I sure would like to be canon fodder in order to get my rights

Modern America is fascist as fuck though and mass shootings are a daily occurrence

Pretty sure the Robocop commercials drove the point home for everyone.

What do you think the prevalence of firearms says about a nation's character?

Maybe he meant the size of the military, or maybe he meant the glorfication of firearms and the second amendment in american culture. A fair number of things in the US basically operate on the "might makes right" principle.

This

Modern America is growing fascist in some ways yes but it is the sjw attitude toward the 1st amendment and the bootlicking gun control advocates that are pushing us in that direction

You don't have any rights, faggot. They are given to you as a favor on the condition that you might do something useful with them, but they are still given and may be forfeited at any moment. Something earned on the other hand, cannot. When you prove yourself to have actual worth and value to be considered indispensable in a society, the maintenance of your well-being goes far beyond just a "right", it's something that happens at the deepest and most selfish level, simply because you are worth it.

Because the reality of it is nothing like the picture of handsome men you see in propaganda posters (which you will never, ever look like) and more based on the guy with the most power taking your rights and fucking you up the ass with them?

But maybe some vauge sentiment about "purity" and "strength" makes up for that when they kill your family in the street for having slightly wrong opinions, or maybe just owning something they want.

>appealing
the absolute state of conservative america

It didn't do enough

Agreed, as they say, freedom is not given, its taken

It brought germany out of debt turned it into an economic powerhouse

More guns = less fascism. Taking guns away from average citizens its literally one of the core tenants of fascism. Only the centralized authority is allowed to wield that kind of power.

Not even right wing but I want to see a faithful reboot adaptation of Starship Troopers in its full facist glory.

And they better keep the fucking power armors in...

(Oh by the way did you know that Juan Rico was supposed to be a Filipino?)

we just had this thread yesterday god damnit

lol no

One could say the same about the blind glorification of the military and the increased surveillance state and the NSA.

>growing facist
>white americans are an increasingly smaller population %
not so fast

Yeah bro, Fascist societies are totally known for advocating gender equality and passing off laws to force religious bodies to do the same.

It says the government can get fucked, the U.S. is literally immune to a fascist dictatorship, "oh b-but the military", the military can't even deal with camel fuckers. I'm not even American btw, I'm South American in a shithole where only cops and drug dealers have access to firearms, and we've had multiple dictatorships through history and will probably have more (and so have many european countries, but alas, not the U.S.).

Anyways, what does it say about the Swiss?

nowdays guns are not that much of a problem for gvmt

>what is iraq, afghanistan, and vietnam

Germany was a powerhouse before fascism. By 1938 they had more debt than in 1928.

Ima euro myself but this movies surpassed just being a satire ,since the satire is still mroe appealing than our western societies. fascism is not by itself a bad idelogy. It was thrown out too fast i think.

>they kill your family in the street for having slightly wrong opinions

Literally didn't happen unless you're a commie. And it's not like the commies didn't do the same thing.

this is pretty high on my to-watch list but I can't bring myself to start it. Is it at least funny?

that's not how any of this works.

>“Their flag – it’s a Nazi flag!” I said, “No … it’s completely different colours.”

>REAPER DRONES HAVE MADE GUERILLA WARFARE OBSOLETE YOU GUISE, SWEAR ON ME MUM, NOW HAND OVER YOUR ASSAULT MACHINE RIFLES, PLEASE

The only one that escapes controversy is Robocop, because people who don't realise it's satirising 80's American consumerist culture (and action movies as a genre) don't get upset, they just enjoy thier dumb action.

When you try do the same thing but with sex replacing violence (showgirls) people get weirded out, we're used to seeing trashy on screen violence, but not sex. Starship Troopers gets political, the people too dumb to notice any subtext are fine, it's a movie about killing bugs, but the people who do notice are divided amoungst whether it's successfully criticising or accidentally glorifying fascism.

>look at this cave dwelling guerrillas that have the support of the local population against an invading force
>now look at this rednecks in the midwest
i see now they are the same

It's because Verhoven apparently never got the memo that its impossible to make a movie that doesn't glorify war. War IS innately glorious. It's an intrinsic part of war itself and has been for all time.
>All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-league ball players and the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. That's why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. The very thought of losing is hateful to Americans. Battle is the most significant competition in which a man can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base.
Likewise, fascism is a system designed to "bring out all that is best and remove all that is base". People innately sense it and understand it. It's probably impossible to overcome that fact and still have a reasonably realistic representation of fascism. You just have to make your 'nazis' cartoonishly evil like say Schindler's list.
The exact same backfire effect that happened with Starship Troopers is effecting "Man in the High Castle".

Temporarily. The soviets experienced growth as well under a non democratic government. But eventually they ran out of steam and it all went to shit. Too much power in one place tend to stifle progress.

Rights are inherent and inalienable, binch

>people who use fascism interchangeably with right wing or authoritarian
this pisses me off to no end

Fascism is a very specific strain of authoritarianism, Francisco Franco shouldn't even be considered fascist.

>what is the purpose of war
why would they even bother fighting with you for your ranches
if you take the offense you are fucked

>foreigners dont realize that their entire existence is satire

>War IS innately glorious.
Love too lose three of my limbs and not be able to shit without assistance. Much glory, many honour

Is Rough Necks a satire aswell?

Ranches? Dude what the fuck are you talking about?

>the U.S. is literally immune to a fascist dictatorship
Fucking lol, the executive branch is consolidating power like never before

>More guns = less fascism
More guns = more militarism

the only difference would be rednecks are better armed

Fascist societies thrive by creating a monoculture that actively tries to suppress anything that is different from the model of a perfect citizenship - this means that if you don't fit the template for the culture you will find that the government tries to get rid of you.

>War IS innately glorious
This is how you can tell somebody has been brainwashed

brainlet alert

the film tries to be a satire but fails hard at it. if you are fighting giant space bugs in huge numbers you prob need a militaristic, fascist superstate because otherwise the entire species doesnt survive. what good is freedom of speech or religion if you are dead? if it was a real satire they should have made the bug threat so small that its just big enough to be used as propaganda.

>Franco shouldn't even be considered fascist.
Wow, someone on here who isn't politically illiterate.

>And it's not like the commies didn't do the same thing.
I'm not defending commies here, dumbo. And I find it fascinating how someone would willingly give up all their rights based on some half-baked ideology. You think Franco and Mussolini didn't do whatever the fuck they wanted? They'd kill your family on a fucking whim, why shoulnd't they? They were literal dictators, and anyone who supports fascism is the biggest fucking cuck I've ever seen. And somehow, still, it's the idea that "atleast commies were worse", as if you don't end up in the same place with both systems - licking someones boot.

57 mutt

Fuck you. Who is going to maintain those rights when there's something like a catastrophe or war going on? Hell, who is going to keep those rights if there's economic collapse? We've seen how reliable "rights" are over this past decade in the aftermath of 2008, and how so many people were slaughtered by the system who gave them those rights in the first place. Anything given has no value.

>they should have made the bug threat so small that its just big enough to be used as propaganda.
But that's exactly what the bug threat was, it was a bunch of bugs on the other side of the galaxy.

The meteor was a false flag numbnuts

Get out, Estado Novo was fascism but rebranded not to scare the Allies. You bet that if the Axis won the war Salazar would come out in military uniform just like Mussolini and Franco himself were. Don't forget that Franco was also part of Riveira's falange, and they were fascists through and through.

>More guns = more militarism

Wow, then Switzerland must be fucking Sparta. Dumb fuck.

>executive branch passing executive orders that can be almost instantly gotten rid of during the next administration and that on their own aren’t that powerful anyways
It’s not even close to new in American history that a president does gung-ho bullshit. If you’re trying to claim Trump is a “facist” you need to get a grip

>completely missing the point of Patton's wisdom because you're anchored to your cushy 2010s life and your postmodern cynicism.
You fat, do-nothings going to be remembered for anything? Men 200, 500, 1000 years ago didn't have a fucking supermarket to go get another bag of cheetos. They had to scrape out an existence in the dirt. Something like battle is the ultimate test to see what you're made of. You ever think about testing yourself to the limit? See what you've got inside of you? Or do you think you might only find out that you're a bitchmade pussy?
War is not nice, or clean, or fun, or right, or good for the participants. War is ugly, mean, dirty, and unforgiving, and often unnecessary. But it is glorious. Combat sports are glorious because they are a limited form of "combat"

there is no indication of the meteor being false flag in the entire film. also, the teacher says in the beginning that the veterans took over (and created the federation) AFTER the first bug war. so humanity was already at war with the bugs before the fascist state was created.

That's just not true. You are encouraged to be the best you can, but you're not gonna get murdered for not being. Just look at the way Mussolini treated the south of Italy and that will give you an idea.

Funny how this tiny distinction is only ever pointed out by fascists

It is hostile to intellectuals, science and is unsustainable in the long run.

You're always gonna be licking someone's boot. And the people who sit at the top of any hierarchy can just as well switch the boot between your ass or your mouth. I'd rather lick a boot I can trust.

It is against freedom

Italian fascism was almost comedic, with things like "we don't need laws against homosexuals because homosexuality doesn't exist in Italy". Too bad the germans missed the point and took it seriously.

>so many people were slaughtered by the system who gave them those rights in the first place
>tfw you accidentally argue for abolishing capitalism

>intellectuals

All of them?

>Talking about Spain
>Brings up Portugal
Neither were fascist, you mongoloid.

> Franco was also part of Rivera's falange
Really proving that you're politically illiterate. stop posting and read, preferably some Linz, you troglodyte

>They had to scrape out an existence in the dirt. War is not nice, or clean, or fun, or right, or good for the participants. War is ugly, mean, dirty, and unforgiving, and often unnecessary.
Wow, sounds fucking great. Here's a hint about human civilisation: its aim has always been to make people more comfortable. To make us less likely to die of disease, malnutrition, less likely to be captured, tortured, repressed, to suffer, basically. I know I have a fucking cushy life compared to my ancestors, and I'm happy with that. Why would you want to turn back the clock?
>Combat sports are glorious because they are a limited form of "combat"
lol, jocks are fucking clueless

>It is hostile to intellectuals, science and is unsustainable in the long run.

yeah, nazi germany sure didnt build the first jet fighter ever, the first missiles ever, the first assault rifle and the best tank in wwII. how is it hostile to science?

Wow, amazing arguments, some amazing rhetoric right there. Nah I'm just kidding, you've said nothing and remain wrong.

Franco was first and foremost a conservative. He may have had falangists in his coalition but he diluted their fascist tendencies and made them serve his needs.

>Estado Novo
lol who said anything about portugal you moron

so what if 57% of my body is mechanical?
im still more human than youll ever be you insensitive foreign faggot animal!

Competition is good, fucking ending other people’s lives, getting maimed or killed, or seeing other people get blown to shreds is NOT glorious, it’s an abomination of human decency that only a true sadist enjoys if it’s actual happening in the real world and they aren’t just watching a depiction of it

You really are either completely brainwashed or a child.

There is nothing glorious about going to war, you just end up a shell of your former self, often alcoholic in the worse case suicidal. You don't share your war stories because you are either ashamed or they are just to horrific to tell.

Yes sometimes it's necessary to fight a war but it's the ugliest imaginable. You would know if you actually lived through one.

Yeah, the people at the top will always try to fuck us over. But the difference is that democarcy makes that slightly harder for them, while fascism makes it incredibly easy for them.

Nice unusable meme weapons, Wehraboo

That does seem very italian desu. They seem to enjoy a slapstick element to their politics.

>amazing arguments
Right back at you. I guess you get what you give and what i had to give was still at least some actually sound reading recommendations. Stay illiterate i guess

maybe get your basic history and geography down before getting into politics

Note how all of them are war related

There is literally nothing wrong with fascism, prove me wrong.

You mean the same intellectual manpower that are already present during the days of Weimar Germany? Manpower that dwindled and wasted on the Nazi's purges, pseudoscience and impractical wunderwaffens?

Only patricians realize the script is satirical and the direction is not.

If you want to see Verhoeven without Neumeier watch Hollow Man or Basic Instinct.

You’re not wrong about the first one. It’s a useful tool to have a populace that supports its military, but it can backfire fiercely at the same time. Also I don’t understand this thinking that right wingers like surveillance. I see both sides constantly bitching about it and politicians on both sides are suspiciously guilty of supporting it regardless. Tho dumb George is probably responsible for that line of thinking when he patriot act’d us

Only slightly, far too slightly for me to buy into it. You are correct in saying that in Fascism those on top can fuck you over easier, but I stand on what I said: I'm not so convinced that "democratically" elected officials have people's best interests after elected, and sure as fuck we've seen over and over how promises are used as a way to bait voters - if there will be someone sitting at the top, I'd rather it be someone who is honest about their goals, instead of playing everyone off.

not a fascist, just a political science student

Your mother is a satire.

Well, Albert Einstein had to leave the country because he was jewish. So on one hand, advancements in military engineering, on the other, the theory of relativity. Protip: one of these is a far bigger deal than the other. Of course, they ahd some amazing rocket scientist etc, but considering how they were beat by the US in the development of the atom bomb and their dismissal of "jewsih" science, I'm going to chalk it up as a loss for the nazis.

cuck

we do

its still awesome