Shin Sekai Yori

After years of "was he right?" and "villains who did nothing wrong" shitposts, I finally got around to watching this crap series. I expected him to have some kind of multi-faceted, complicated ideas that would provoke such controversy. But nope. Dude literally did nothing wrong.

There aren't actually people who think he's evil for fighting a revolutionary war against oppressors, right? The series even hammers it down your throat in the end with that hamfisted reveal. You're not supposed to think he's evil, they literally wrote a hero and called it a villain. Pretty lazy writing if you ask me, creates the illusion of moral ambiguity when there is none.

I seriously doubt the intelligence of Sup Forums sometimes to argue over such a simple conflict.

You'd think, but there was that faggot who wrote several paragraphs worth of the virtues of submitting to authority.

>wrote a hero and called it a villain
There is where you are wrong, there was no villians nor heroes in this story, this is the argument that there is no black and white

I totally understand the virtue of submitting to authority in actual democratic society. But that's not even the situation here - Squealer was right when he said they were below slaves.

Slaves have an economic value, you don't kill your slaves because that would be burning money. While it's certainly sucks to be looked at as a product, the queerats were in a worse situation, only being allowed to exist because some magical humans feel like letting them exist.

It was completely black and white, author just called white black and black white and pretended they had a smart story.

>Squealer wanted to get rid of this

The humans got rid of the cutie on the right themselves tho

Who?

Isn't that the girl from group one they got rid of early on?

Yep, I was just going on how everyone forgot about her

It wasn't tho, humans didn't enslaved the rats and they only exterminate them if they committed a crime against humans.

The rats only searched for a way to kill humans because they didn't know if humans would behave like that for ever. They just have the instinct to survive.

There wasn't malicious reason on eather side.

He was going to breed them tho.

A justifiable action isn't necessarily the same as a morally good one.

It wasn't completely black and white. The interesting moral conflict comes from the fact that, as a human, you can't really sit by while humanity is wiped out, even if you actually deserved it. This makes it difficult to choose a side, although yes, from a purely moralistic view, the humans were completely wrong, and most of the retards who think otherwise aren't even close to seeing things on this level.

>The interesting moral conflict comes from the fact that, as a human, you can't really sit by while humanity is wiped out
I sure fucking can if humanity fucking sucks according to my own values. Maybe I'd protect a few individual people whom I cared about, but that's it. If humanity was as far gone as the one in SSY, I'd gladly hand over the reins of being human to some creative, if ugly, rats.

If the Queerats had found out a way to create Psychobuster, Cantus users would be non existent.

>humans didn't enslaved the rats and they only exterminate them if they committed a crime against humans.

As mentioned what they did was worse than enslaving them, because at least when enslaved you have a right to life, just not what you do with it. Queerats don't even have that. They were given no sovereignty, only autonomy, the values of humans mean nothing to a queerat. Living or dying based on the whims of people more powerful than you is not life, it's being allowed to exist.

Kiroumarou only phrased it that way because he actually believed in the principal of submitting to tyrannical rule, and thus had no problem with submitting to the tyranny of humans as long as they were somewhat cooperative. He did not believe in liberty, freedom, or equality, unlike Squealer. If he had recognized the value of those principles he would've been on Squealers side, as Squealer said.

There was clearly malicious intent on the part of the humans, they created queerats so they could kill them, and thus subjugate their species. They laughed at the notion that queerats were human.

Of course humanity is allowed to defend itself, I am in no way suggesting that that is wrong. Just that Squealer is not evil, and is in fact a good person by any conceivable standard.

Humanity is evil for the fact that they created the queerats, and for the way they ran their society, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to defend themselves.

>only being allowed to exist because some magical humans feel like letting them exist

You didn't pay attention to the story.

In order to make it so magical humans would stop fucking shit up, the scientists manipulated their dna so they couldn't hurt each other without committing sudoku.

Issue was the normies, non magical humans, could kill them under these conditions, since they couldn't fight back without dying. Thus, they transformed them into queer-rats, making them not human enough they wouldn't trigger sudoku.

They were then kept around, as they were the only ones able to kill magical humans, which was required because every once in a while one would have a bitch fit and kill people without killing themselves.

The reveal at the end is supposed to make you sympathize with the queer-rats, because as pointed out, they're the real humans.

Thing is, Squealer was a cunt, and was more concerned with power than actually freeing themselves, as evidenced by both how he treated their mothers (enslaving them in terrible conditions), and by how he simply wanted to kill them all rather than offer a surrender.

>doesn't mean they're not allowed to defend themselves
but they created queerats to be capable of defending themselves

>did nothing wrong
He lost.

Does anyone else get really depressed when they listen to Yuki ni Saku Hana? This show really had me down when I was watching it. I loved it, though.

Yeah, I know, I just watched it a few hours ago. None of that invalidates what I said, they turned the rest of the population into queerats so they could control them, by being able to kill them.

It's clearly not required for them to be kept around, since the genocide of their species was ordered after the Squealer incident, hence they only exist on the whims of the humans.

Preemptively turning every human who doesn't possess a certain trait into a subspecies that you can easily disposed of when the whim strikes you because you voluntarily chose to modify your own biology is not defense.

they letted them live, if It was me I would kill them from the beginning

>Slaves have an economic value
The Kami-sama made use of Queerrat labor.

>[Kami-sama] only exterminate [Queerrats] if [the Queerrats] committed a crime against humans.
Crime is very loosly used here. It's not like there was a legal procedure that had to be followed or certain predefined standards that had to be met for said before a representative of the Kami-sama could slaughter an entire colony of Queerrats. The reason for attemting to genocide Squeelers colony was that he won a sanctioned military conflict between his coalition and Kiroumaru's colony.

>Issue was the normies, non magical humans, could kill them under these conditions, since they couldn't fight back without dying. Thus, they transformed them into queer-rats, making them not human enough they wouldn't trigger sudoku.
It's left unspecified whether the scientists in question had cantus, did not have cantus or were a mixed company of people with cantus and without. I actually believe that the latter is more likely, if only because it's not guaranteed for two parents with cantus to birth a child that also has cantus.

For what purpose were they enslaved, again?

It the humans had psychic powers, what's the use for manual labor?

Long time since I watched this

It took me a few watches to get this, but it doesn't even made that the psychics were doing bad thing with their pseudo overlord structure. What matters is that these psychics were natural disasters in their own rights, a moving nuclear waste dump. They created to holy barriers to direct their bad thoughts outside of the barriers. In doing, so they were warping and deforming the world around them creating sick and terrible creature. They are a threat to everything of every species.This looked at the world in a thousand years, but imagine how another thousand, a hundred thousand, a million years would damage the world. This goes beyond evolution to cruelty the the species of the earth in creating their beasts. Without ideology queer rats are the greatest hope for what it means to be human, because these disastrous psychics will warp themselves and everything around them as any fallout does and should be stopped.

Yeah to be honest psychics are a literal fucking mistake. They killed billions of people, warped all the life on the planet and have basically forced a fucked up system of society.

The dude is the actual hero of the show, and yet his fate is eternal torment after being turned into a tortured flesh ball, only given the sweet release of death years later. He was trying to stop genocide and slavery, and he barely succeeded at that despite great cost. Makes me legitimately mad when people start talking about him being evil.

They might be redeemable if they can science their way out of the warping they do, but I think to do that they would have to take out their powers. Its so unlikely that squeller has to be right even if he seeks despotic empire. Its like choosing between you going to jail or cancer for you, your friends, your family, your children, their descendants, the bugs, the deer, the birds, the fish, and everything for all eternity.

It's not supposed to be ambiguous, it's supposed to be clear that neither side is in the wrong, and both were doing what they logically had to do to survive. Arguably Squealer did one thing wrong by disrupting the social order, but considering the shit conditions he and the other queerats lived in under the Cantus users' rule, it's completely understandable and sympathetic as to why he did it.
If you're a queerrat, Squealer is a hero. If you're a human, Squealer is a villain. It's simple.

>It was completely black and white, author just called white black and black white and pretended they had a smart story.
Are you implying humans were in the wrong? Maybe you should go back and try to understand the setting a bit more.

>It's clearly not required for them to be kept around
They needed a slave labour force to support the small remaining human society, because harsh farm labour is not how you keep emotionally volatile magic nukes (teenagers/young adults) calm and in control of their Cantus. The slave race was necessary to feed and produce goods for the human population.
The queerats weren't all wiped out, just Squealer's entire clan and every clan even remotely associated with them.