Explain this shit to me please

So how exactly did Rei "stand up" to Gendo here? I fail to see the conflict of interest, as far as i can tell they both want the third impact to happen.

Same goes for seele turning on nerv, didn't both organisations have the same endgame?

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They all want to cause the Third Impact, but they all want to be personally in control of it for differing reasons, except Rei, who wants to put Shinji in charge.

They believe it can be controlled or regulated by the one who initiates it. Personally I think that is just hubris.

But doesn't Gendo's plan of merging Rei (Lilith's soul) with the Adam fetus also put Rei in control?

Seele want to become a new god, Gendo wants to take it over, Rei takes what Gendo had prepared for himself and gifts it to Shinji.

Rei can't maintain her human form anymore but at least she can make a choice, what give her some humanity back

Uhhhh all I liked about Uhh end of evengellon was the boobies

gendo didnt get tanged he just died.

We don't know what Gendo wanted (other than to presumably reunite with Yui in some way), but Rei's actions foiled it. That's why.

We don't know exactly what Seele wanted, other than what they stated which was to evolve humanity a new being. It's not clear to what extent the version of HI that Shinji started conforms to Seele's desires, although at one point in EoE they seemed pretty confident they won. However, whatever Gendo wanted was definitely foiled.

Rei has the power, but Gendo would use/control her to get what he wants. Rei sees this and uses the power for what she wants instead.

>at one point in EoE they seemed pretty confident they won
They say that, but it's immediately before they're tanged. They saw their fantasy coming to collect them like everyone did.

But being tanged might have been exactly their goal, we really don't know how closely Shinji's version of HIP aligns with Seele's intended version in the anime. Presumably they wouldn't have wanted the "people are allowed to leave" caveat but that's just conjecture

>We don't know what Gendo wanted (other than to presumably reunite with Yui in some way)
There is no "other than", that is Gendo's objective in its entirety.

Think of it like when you had to do the gameshow board game in Banjo-Kazooie. It's exactly like that.

holy shit

No, his goals were also presumably to finish Yui's goals in some way after she went into the Eva, although it's not clear if him failing was what Yui intended or Yui just adjusted her course of action last minute. But it's clear he was trying to finish Yui's work in some way because that's why Fuyutsuki was even involved

Gendo's goals were an absolute mystery. So are Yui's.

exactly, up until that point everything was indeed according to that plan, however after that shinji realized being tanged is not a good world, that separation and pain is necessary, and thus gave everyone the option to return back, essential making the whole "we become one" point moot as far as Seele goes

But we don't know for sure if Seele really cared if people left or not. We also don't know if HIP as it happened was what they wanted in the first place.

From a writing structure perspective it's implied that the events as you describe them is what happened, but there's no real evidence for that, because Seele's stated goals were so vague and they had like 4 different scenarios with which it could occur

>So how exactly did Rei "stand up" to Gendo here?
By not letting him have his way.

Rei doesn't want third impact in itself.

>Rei doesn't want third impact in itself

That's not true, Rei just realized she doesn't have to do whatever Gendo says. So she did what she wanted to do, which was ask Shinji. There's no reason to assume she gave a shit if Third impact occurred either way

sums it up.

>it actually is exactly like that

Is the third rebuild movie any good?

Because there's no reason to assume Rei doesn't care, and because we've seen Rei care about humanity before, there's no reason to assume that she doesn't care.

What we know from the series is that Rei does care about returning to her original self, and that she cares about Shinji. Rei's motivation in a lot of this is precisely helping Shinji as well, and later she helps him get out of his funk and undo what he's done.

as someone who never played it, what is it about?

No, it's unironically the worst Evangelion movie ever made.

It was, just not like that. They didn't care about Gendo having Lilith or the Adam sample at all, they wanted Unit 01 and they were yanking it around from the outside. They saw what they wanted instead of that Rei had overtaken everything and it was all out of their control.

The only good parts of the third Rebuild are the parts money bought, like Sagisu Shiro's paycheck. Otherwise it's as if they deliberately tried to make a bad movie and then later tried to cover it up with otaku pandering so at least the hardcore fans (think asukafags, kaworufags in this particular run) would have reason to buy the merchandise and pretend its still good. As a movie it's just downright bad.

It's excellent. The fact that so many criticize it shows how little they ever understood about Eva or Anno's intentions

>It's shit. The fact that some still praise it shows how little they ever understood about Eva or Anno's intentions

FTFY

>It's being called out for being shit, therefore it's good!
Top contrarian mate.

I think that because Rei started to convince Shinji to abort instrumentality, she cant have wanted it to happen.

Rei was still doing it. She didn't lead Shinji to any conclusion, she answered him honestly and noted where he contradicted himself. He can have whatever he really wishes for but he doesn't get to deceive himself.

I have a theory about gendo's plan, and have some stuff to back it up.

Seele, at some moment (cant remember the episode / movie), upon realizing that gendo is about to betray them, say this line "We have no intention of giving up our human forms simply to enter the ark called Eva". I assume they are talking about Gendos plan (who else?)

What does it mean? Pretty simple:
>The eva they are talking about is clearly 01. Gendo wants to go back to yui in 01, and apparently he cant do it alone, and everyone else would be tanged and forced into that too, otherwise Seele wouldnt care.
>"Simply" implies it isnt enough, so they want more than that. As they are fine with using Eva 01 to trigger instrumentality in EoE, i think the thing that isnt enough is "ARK".
>"Ark" implies travel and something possibly temporary (in noah's story he they did leave it eventually). That is Yui's desire. Gendo somehow realized what Yui was doing (probably fuyutsuki realized first and told him). As Gendo is deperate, he chooses to roll with it. In one of the last episodes he looks to 01 and say "Our plan is about to be completed". Bullshit, it was always Yui's plans and he is just trying to tag along with Yui. We see it in EoE, as she "rejects" and kills him during instrumentality.
>Finally, maybe people would eventually leave 01 if it crashed in another planet, or something like that (the temporary aspect of an ark), maybe not. I strongly believe the idea of "Leaving instrumentality" wasnt in Seele's plans at all.

>"no way someone would be stupid enough to mimic Shinji"
>check WikiHow
>it's an actual article
>mfw
Is this some elaborate ruse?

Gendo scrapped every previous goal he had when Yui disappeared. After she was gone, all he turned his sights on was reuniting with her. Fuyutsuki makes this clear by addressing Gendo's behavior after Yui's "death".

Nah. Gendo disappeared for a week after the failed salvage operation, then he starts talking about the Human Instrumentality Project he's just proposed to Seele and Fuyutsuki already knows what it is.

Too deep for you?

Maybe

Anno never intended to make the rebuilds originaly. Besides money, we dont know what drove him to do it, because the story still incomplete.

Given how he dont seen much enthusiastic in finishing said story, i think we are in a bad spot already.

Try making sense of this part. Fucking incongruous to everything written after it.

What do you have a problem understanding here?

>Anno never intended to make the rebuilds originaly.
He planned them back in early 2000s.

>We don't know what Gendo wanted
>We don't know exactly what Seele wanted, other than what they stated which was to evolve humanity a new being

I wish all Eva fans were as honest as you. Too many fail to comprehend the uncertainty that naturally falls out of the potential for so many contradictions.

>I don't know so it must mean everyone else doesn't
You should just try watching the show without typing playing a game on the other half of the screen next time. There's such a thing as actually paying attention to what's on screen.

user is right though, a lot of things in Eva were left ambiguous and unexplained.
For fuck's sake, Anno needed to make a video game just to clarify some of the more glaring plot holes.

But those things were explained in the anime. Also, the games didn't explain anything important that wasn't explained in the anime.

>Anno needed to make a video game
He didn't intend to make a game nor did he participate in its production. All the info in the game was taken from his interviews.

They used that promise to market a game. The plot isn't resolvable because it was under constant revision while in progress to create twists. The goal was making a mystery that would get attention, defying prediction was more important than coherence.

WikiHow seems to have turned into Amateur Comic Club

Now that's some major bullshit. There is a summary for Eva from two years earlier that presents a synopsis almost identical to what happened in the show. It just changes the location of the last episode and some of the names. The nature and relations between all the characters and all the supernatural elements is the same.

Stop looking for excuses. If YOU didn't get it, then that 's it. It's not that the plot is incoherent, YOU just didn't understand it.

Yeah, right.
Go on and point me to where in the Anime they explain why only 14 year olds can pilot.

>only 14 year olds
They aren't piloting because of their age, they're piloting because the souls of their dead mothers are inside the Evas and they can only synchronize with their own children

We know that, what we don't know is why they didn't just get an adult with a dead mother to pilot it. Or even a teen.

>fourteen year old
>not a teen

I tend to agree with him. NGE was incoherent.

Did you managed to miss who souls were inside of each EVA?

Remember when Rei tried to pilot 01?

In Shinji's case his mother knew that SEELE will try to kill her so she decided to become Unit 01 herself. I don't know if she knew that only Shinji will be able to pilot it (she probably did), but that's how it is. In Asuka's case, her mother wanted to plant only a part of her soul into the Eva, but she went nuts afterwards. Asuka was actually trained to become a good pilot, so there were no problems, except for her childhood trauma, which was a coincidence. In Shinji's case, Gendo was either an idiot who put too much faith in berserk mode, or he was simply an idiot who didn't think about training a pilot. It turned out he wanted Rei to pilot Unit 01, but she was crippled n' shit.

They had the ability to rewrite cores dumbass.

People have already asnwered you, but honestly. What explanation do you have for yourself? Were you just too lazy to search for explanations or rewatch the show? Are you the kind of person that will whine every time they can't do some task and say it's impossible to do, even though others have clearly accomplished it? Were you just trolling? What is it?

Nope.

They override 01 because Shinji doesnt want to fight 03 and they only managed to do that once, the override no longer works.

In fact unit 03 is the oddball since its never mentioned who's soul was in(well because Toji is dead I guess).

Besides thats irrelevant in the long term as SEELE was going with the Dummy Plug system for the mass production EVA units and were meant to be unmanned.

Are you sure you're replying to a right post?

Yeah, that's Proposal. That version of the plot had FAR as a terrestrial civilization destroyed by their Evangelion, Adam, and another race that made Longinus, the Angels, and the Dead Sea Scrolls to stop it and keep it from happening again. They were already straying away from the original premise in the first episode but didn't completely abandon it until almost the end to add the Seeds of Life premise. Eva was written the same way Lost was but had the good fortune of more artistry behind it and ending faster, you're free now.

You need a rewatch.
They explicitly say they can rewrite the cores. That's why everyone in Shinji's class was a potential pilot.

Not even the staff knew where the show was going in the middle of the run.
It was insanely incoherent, get over it.

The only fault is the bad writing and execution, not the viewer.

Shit, didn't Anno admit pretty freely he didn't know what Instrumentality was going to be when he included it?

Nope.

They try to use the dummy plug system but its not compatible for the obvious reason.

They cannot "rewrite the cores" because EVA 01-03 are literally clones of Lilith with a human soul stuck on them, they cannot change a damn thing ... they can trick then with the Dummy Plug but that doesnt go far.

Its clear you havent payed attention because a lot is just misdirection. the real truth is they are following the Dead Sea Scrolls that say how shit is supposed to go down, that is until Gendo starts to get very "creative" about it (such as 01 getting a S2 engine by eating a Angel) forcing SEELE to having to attack Geofront to get it back on track when they run out of options.

Can someone explain to me how the Evas are all like parts of the pilot's mother? I know in EoE one of Asuka's last lines hints/confirms this and Unit 1 moved on its own to protect Shinji. Is there anything else I should be looking at?

How does the original location of the FAR change anything? The only thing that changes here is that Adam and Lilith had originated from the same source, which stays consistent throughout the same show.
Nope sorry, it's the lazy viewer at fault here. Sure, if no one thought it was coherent, then something would be odd here. But the fact that most people comprehend the lore of the show and YOU don't, just means you're the problem here.

Also, how do you explain the fact that episode one has parts that were explained only in the last scenes of EoE. If there was no planning, there would be zero rewatch value to the whole thing.

- The whole flashback episode has Shinji's mother dissolving while doing an experiment on Eva 01
- Gendo often speaks to Eva 01, refering to her as Yui
- Shinji sees his mother a few times in the Eva, during the more trippy scenes, like when he was swollowed by that multi-dimensional angel.
- Eva 01 protects Shinji specifically from danger.
- In EoE Yui actually talks to Shinji and mentions her being the soul of Eva 01

2.22 has it beat by a small margin.

Is this video right ? or it is complete bullshit ?
youtube.com/watch?v=Ho07Ag6lV9g

Seems about right. I made a pannel recently in a convention summing up the whole story of Eva. Though I used specific evidence and got the same overall story. Though it misses some specifics, but doesn't get anything wrong.

just one question, why the fuck shinji jake off to asuka and why does he choke her in EoE

Rewriting the cores has nothing to do with the dummy plug system. Ritsuko even says in episode 24 that were going to rewrite Unit 02's core.

Only Eva unit 01 is a clone of Lilith. The others are all clones of Adam.

>Its clear you havent payed attention
You're the one that just got all this basic shit wrong. Rewatch the show.

Still doing what? The instrumentality process was kickstarted before, Rei only assimilated herself into to process so she could help Shinji.

>implying
2.22 is the best EVA movie after EoE. 3.33 is utter and complete garbage only a blind otaku could like.

>meaningless shit and plot holes
>hurrrr it's just 2deep4uuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!
Annofags are incorrigible

> why the fuck shinji jake
He was borderline mental at this point. Kaji died and Misato cut himself off him. Rei died and then came back and he found out she was a clone. Toji left after he almost killed him and then wouldn't look at him, when he tried to apologize. Kaworu offered him love and he had to kill him. The guy always tried to find some closeness. He thought Asuka might be the only one so went to her but she was obviously in a coma. He wanted to talk to her and then her breasts showed. He on the one hand did hate her, but also did find her attractive, even if just physically. So in his frustration he just jerked off to her.

I mean it's just how people will sometimes jerk off to pictures of their ex, even if they left them or are mad at them. It's a combination of frustration, seeking to relieve tension and the fact that the person is still attractive to them. It's not rational, but it is understandable.

>why does he choke her in EoE
Remember that he chokes her two times. Try rewatching that first scene, where instrumentality starts. In fact that scene itself is somewhat of a repeat of another scene from the series. But I think just watching that should be enough for you to get it.

It's very simple.
Everyone in Eva just wanted to get laid.

No one yet pointed out even one plot hole in this thread and people have given tons of explanation. The problem isn't depth, is laziness on the side of people like you, or just an irrational hatred towards anything that causes confusion in you. Of course for lots of people, idiots like you are useful. You never try to understand anything complex, so you're less of a competition for others.

The people in eva that did get laid, still had problems.

A plot hole is why did they only use 14 year old kids as pilots

Who the fuck is jake?

>The problem isn't depth
Are we talking about the same Evangelion?

Someone literally asked the same question above and got an answer.

No one could provide an answer.

What I mean, is anything is to some degree deep. But this is art, not quantom physics. With some effort, like rewatching the show you'll get it. The only reason you wouldn't be able to do that is being lazy or just getting too easily mad about anything that's confusing. That's why the problem isn't depth.

I see answers. But I'll summarize. Yui put her soul into Eva of her own volition. First they tried to use a clone of her but it got destroyed. They used that clone to create unit 00 and another clone that was able to pilot it. They tried it with her and eva 01 first, but there were also problems. So in the end they summoned Shinji. Asuka was specifically trained to pilot Eva 02 and it had only part of her soul in it.

This still doesn't explain why they didn't just use an older person and their dead mother into an Eva unit
All the other potential pilots were made 14 as well

>First they tried to use a clone of her but it got destroyed. They used that clone to create unit 00
Interesting. Did you just come up with it now? Because it's not represented by anything in NGE.

Two kids were the children of scientists who worked together. Kaworu was created as a result of the 1st impact, Rei was a clone and started being developed after the death of Yui.

Adults become independent from their parents and aren't as attached to them, neither are parents as protective of them. Younger kids would be on the other hand even less capable than teenagers.

>ruined characterization
>ruined angel fight (Unit-03 specifically)
>absolutely retarded ending that goes completely against what NGE was all about
>the awful attempts at shock by having the singing during the gore
It's the worst single thing out of NGE and the Rebuilds.

You didn't see the scene were Rei was strangled to death? I recommend actually watching the show next time.

I am trying to remember, that was Rei-1 since that was the first one right?

Asuka's mom was an accident. Yui being absorbed into unit 01 was part of her plan (whatever her plan was), hence Shinji and Asuka wound up being the only viable options. I'm sure you can come up with some Freudian reasons as to why they needed teenagers specifically if you wanted to.

That being said, the real reason they're 14 is because they were using the trope of teenagers piloting robots deliberately. You might be forgetting amidst the memeification of the word "deconstruction," but there was a genuine attempt to do to mecha what Watchmen did to superheros (take the tropes and expose them to reality - whether that really counts as deconstruction is debatable). That could've been integrated into the story better. Another flaw along similar lines is that they had no reason to wait for the last minute to call Shinji. They knew for a decade that he would be a potential Eva pilot, and they didn't send him through any training or anything, even if as only a backup plan

I remember that, but no idea where you got any of that from Naoko seeing a Rei for the first time in 2010, 6 years after Yui died.

I dont think that was a " backup plan", it was deliberate to make Yui awake by putting him in danger.

What are you talking about? When you strangle people to death, they aren't alive. I don't think the show really needed to elaborate on that.
Yup, her soul was then used in Eva 00.

No, Shinji was kind of option 2 after Lilith didn't really work out

>her soul was then used in Eva 00

Half