How do you fill the spiritual void created by the modern world? Or can you even fill it? As any normal human being, I want to feel a sense of belonging and mutual meaning, but finding it in this age is near impossible.
Christianity is, first of all, foreign and alien, on top of being essentially dead. It's in its death throes, destroyed by its own adherents. Paganism on the other hand is already dead and its adherents are trying to resurrect a corpse. Additionally, paganism has a history of barbarism, which included sacrifices.
The only two options I see available are both in philosophy: ancient Greek philosophy (particularly stoicism, epicureanism, and cynicism) and modern philosophy, specifically nihilism and its offshoots as expressed by Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, or the other existentialists, or even absurdists like Camus. These are lonely ventures and not completely satisfactory, but a beggar can't be a chooser, so I'm riding with the Greeks.
>How do you fill the spiritual void created by the modern world? Hard work. Find pride and joy in what you do. Do it for your country, people and the future.
Jayden Gray
>Do it for your country, people and the future. My country is owned by an international elite that cares nothing about it and my countrymen are all too invested into bread and circuses to stop it.
Adrian Barnes
The best option is neo-platonism. It is a combination of platonism and stoicism. Not sure why people bring up meme ideas like epicureanism, when it was born and died with epicurus who even claimed nobody understood wtf he meant.
The works of the ancient greeks need to be viewed as a way of life once again. The only way to recognize the value of the world is to dive into the one and accept its beauty, and strive every day to connect with the ideal. I survive the modern world because I have found true value outside of what the modern world dictates we should value. In the words of Plato, it is our responsibility, our duty to walk back down into the belly of the cave and drag our fellow man to the light, especially at the prospect of death. It is through the process of the teacher and the student that this truth must be proliferated to breathe life and idealism back into our people.
Zachary Butler
>Man must save itself >Man must define good and evil for itself Yeah cause this has always worked
Liam Perez
>it is our responsibility, our duty to walk back down into the belly of the cave and drag our fellow man to the light, especially at the prospect of death. It is through the process of the teacher and the student that this truth must be proliferated to breathe life and idealism back into our people. I don't believe that's objectively possible, the systems in place (the government, the education system, the economy, the media, etc) all produce a certain type of human, that cannot be overcome without a change in those systems. Otherwise you're planting 1 tree for every 100 that is destroyed.
Chase Martinez
The Church began in Rome. How can Christianity be foreign?
The pagan gods are the sock-puppets of The Archetypes. Archetypes are memes so true, so real, they have become part of our genetic and physiological structure. We are a reflection of the world, the world is a reflection of the universe, and the universe is a reflection of the functioning laws that make it.
God is real, it is not a magic wizard in the sky, it's the force that permeates every last thing on every level; above and below.
And we, as far as we are aware, are its first and only culmination into a computational construct capable of viewing itself.
The true religion can be found in the common properties of all religions. The Meta is reality.
Nicholas Stewart
Found the retard who has no clue what he’s talking about. Come back when you’ve actually taken the time to read plato and plotinus’ works and not just say random meaningless shit.
>Man defining what is good and evil
Discounting the fact that you’re completely ignoring the objective state of the good that emanates from the one and just thinking about the dialectic approach to understanding morality, what other option do you see for learning what is and is not moral? Is god going to beam knowledge of what is good straight into my brain? Are stone tablets going to magically appear atop the mountain inscribed with the knowledge of morality? Dialectics is the best and only reasonable form of acquiring knowledge of the one.
Camden Ross
You and litteraly every other false religion seriously there's nothing new or unique about this accient idea of "Trenscending to Godhood" It's what the snake promised Eve in the Garden "For in the day you day of the fruit you will be like God knowing good and evil"
Zachary Ward
Do this, reject that which is false, only accept the truth. Ask the questions the dead religions claimed and failed to answer and work on finding the correct answers. Walk this road user and you will surely find what you are looking for...
Austin Jenkins
No he won't
Wyatt Nelson
Do you really believe that a snake and humanbeing had conversation about morality? How many snakes have you spoken with there Cletus?
Jason Hughes
I didn't claim i'm coming up with anything new.
That is actually the complete and utter opposite of the point i'm making.
The point i'm making is the reality i'm alluding to is ancient beyond belief. It is so old and so true, it permeates through the very architecture of our mind and body.
Jack Lopez
>How do you fill the spiritual void created by the modern world? Find what it is you are willing to live and die for, find what matters to you. >Or can you even fill it? Do you believe that anyone ever has felt fulfilled? If so, then it is possible. If not, then stop searching. >ancient Greek philosophy I'd agree that some of the Greeks figured out how to live the best life. >(particularly stoicism, epicureanism, and cynicism) Stoicism is the ethos of resignation and fatalistic diligence; the ethos of the "superfluous man." Epicureanism is essentially hedonic, with some slight modifications. "What makes me happy" is best. As long as you exist solely for a self-referential purpose, you will find the external world and other beings in it as means to your happiness, not ends in themselves. To cynicism I have similar criticisms to stoicism. I'd just add one question: virtue ethics claims that man is born flawed and has to learn to become morally excellent. Purity-based ethics claims that man is born morally excellent but forgets this over time. Which do you believe and why? >nihilism Nihilism is what all of philosophy is trying to avoid. >Nietzsche Nietzsche is excellent; if you want a modern day rendition, I suggest orgyofthewill.net which is highly entertaining at the least. >Kierkegaard You already rejected Christianity, so I don't particularly see why you would consider Kierkegaard (not that he lacks value outside of Christianity, just that that is where most of his value lies) >existentialists, or even absurdists like Camus Existentialism tells you to solve the problem, but it doesn't really give you an idea how to solve it; all philosophers have sought the "good life."
I would consider Schopenhauer to be the philosopher I agree with most, with additional influences from Nietzsche, Kant, and Plato, among others. I have sympathies with idealist, rationalist, radical, universalist ideologies.
William Long
>Christianity is, first of all, foreign and alien, on top of being essentially dead. It's in its death throes Nothing could be further from the truth user.
Colton Morgan
Stop being like a fundamentalist christian lunatic and thinking the stories are literal and historical.
They aren't. At all.
Only the most ridiculous idiots believe that, the amazing irony of which being that the two that seem to occupy that category are either fundamentalist atheists or fundamentalist Christians.
Jonathan Diaz
As meme-tier as LaVeyan Satanism is, I think it hit on a very important thing. With the loss of a spiritual connection, and with science making belief in God creating the world, or Thor creating Thunder, or Poseidon the waves, all but irrelevant humans still have a deep spiritual need, and a very real need for dogma and ritual. The key is to fill this void with your passions and to make ritual in your daily lives. Waxing an old car can be just as good a ritual as church if you create a ritual space and put yourself in the mindset.
How do you fill the spiritual void created by the modern world?
Have real meaningful experiences and natural connections with the world and the people in it.
The modern world is a simulacrum (Baudrillard). This board is a simulacrum, if you are surrounded by more experiences of simulacrum rather than the real, nature, meaning, or purpose, you will become a void beucase you are not recieving authentic substance - you are eating a hologram and expecting to feel full.
Brody Hill
That why I was asking him that not you presumptive interloper. Where in my question did I assume him to be correct. Pay attention or don't bother to comment bud.
Aiden Lee
Try reading GK Chesterton
Ryan King
What makes you think he's speaking of that story as though it's literal and historical?
Evan Campbell
It's true. Christianity is just an off-shoot of Judaism. On top of what, Christianity is a death cult. Christianity teaches you to more or less ignore the physical world, to suffer through it, because it's only a temporary one. The real world, heaven, only comes when you die and it is eternal. Suffer in the real world for you'll be rewarded in death.
Furthermore, Christianity asks you to take many things literally, which you possibly can't do in a 21st century society unless you want to discard half of science and willingly suspend your sense of disbelief.
William Miller
Now go convince a substantial number of people to adopt it.
Eli Bennett
I just bought a collection of his father Brown short stories. But I know you're referring to his work on Christian apologetics.
Jeremiah Morgan
>is dead liberals die without sons. The few strong remain. It's always being so. It will never die. Anyway, good luck.
Jackson Sanders
How is Christianity foreign and alien? This country is a Christian country, built on Christian beliefs and principles, and if you are anything like a regular British person, you are more Christian in culture and values than you are anything else.
Hunter Collins
>are either fundamentalist atheists or fundamentalist Christians
You are right about that. Atheists seem to be more so.
Chase Parker
The ruling elite always makes sure one of their own takes control after they are gone.
Noah Rogers
>spiritual void What The fuck are you talking about?
Jaxson Reyes
Zen Buddhism is worth looking into, it carries very little cultural baggage. If you can get hold of a copy of pic related it's well worth a read.
Evan Wood
see Point to the Christian values in this image. Christianity in this country is a farce, an irrelevant larping club for old people with no cultural clout, clinging on dearly for life.
Joseph Hill
Nice breakdown, user.
I'm of the opinion that Jesus of Nazareth got it right. Most everything else is probably a footnote.
Joshua Watson
>Who were the Pre-Christian Saxons >Who were the Celts >What was the Danelaw England is a mix of Christian and Pre-Christian ideas and any attempt to shy away from that is intellectually dishonest.
Samuel Cook
Nietzsche didn't want nihilism for nihilism's sake, he didn't like it and thought poorly of nihilists. Nietzsche wanted the Darwinism that would be born from the wreckage of society left by nihilism. Nihilists are fags and so is OP
Brandon Adams
Atheists HAVE to deliberately assume religions are 100% literal and attempts at historical cataloguing, because otherwise their entire worldview becomes akin to a man fighting mist.
If Atheists don't take that viewpoint and approach the situation as though every religious person IS ALSO interpreting religion fundamentally and literally, then they can't win easily and automatically.
It's like someone reading Lord of the Rings, then another person comes over to them and goes "hahaha holy shit, you actually believe in wizards and elves and shit? you fucking loser, wow."
Nicholas Russell
Ok well name any gov, institution or system of justice made by man that has actually worked and lasted? 0 Because we dont have the ability to define good and evil this is the whole lesson of the bible.
This idea of "Human divinity" Will never satisfy you because its a false teaching that leads to only more sorrow History proves this
Justin Collins
Well done on outing yourself for never reading even a basic summary of Nietzsche.
Samuel Gonzalez
>Who were the Romans Christianity in England predates the arrival of the Saxons or the Danes
Lucas Ramirez
I think he's referring to Nietzsche's "death of god" and subsequent need for the "super human"
Asher Ortiz
The great god Pan is not dead. Listen to your instinct and nature, it will lead you to a good life.
Daniel Clark
Christ is our savior. Btw the book of Ecclesiastes answers these questions for you: it’s all vanity.
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 3:22 KJV [22] Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him? Ecclesiastes 7:10 KJV [10] Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this. Ecclesiastes 9:9 KJV [9] Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Eli Hall
Look to vistas of the mind, logos would lead one to philosophy while other paths would lead to new myths. Info-European mythology is essentially the racial memory and vision of the world, and can be revived simply by being in the world as a complete being. In essence you can become your own holy man, and to others as well if your vision is grand enough to draw followers. The existence of cult followings attest to this fact. People cry out for meaning but only a few can weave it, and provide a blanket to protect from the cold.
Henry Mitchell
I'm referring to the fact he literally fucking said he doesn't want nihilism but as a means to an end in his works you stupid ape shit queen sucking faggot ass brit bitches. I'd tell you to slit your wrists to make way for the ubermensch but you probably don't have a license to own any cutting implements or bike tires. Choke on cocks while your country burns.
Neo-Platonism is basically proto-Christianity. I don’t see it as viable.
Jordan Edwards
Yoga
Zachary Brooks
Yes. The logos is our darksign.
Our quiet divine heritage.
When a chosen undead takes up the horrific task of pilgrimage; to tackle the ancient beats and dead gods that have lost their way in the dying world... just as the west itself is in the twilight of its decline. To tear them to pieces and extract from them their souls In reading, in learning, in fighting demons and dragons within and without - the essence of what it really was that made them great - embody it or forge it into something new. To collect all they can, and then finally, reignite the dying flames of the world like a phoenix.
Mason Johnson
Nihilism. Not that depressing crap but understanding that you can do anything because nothing is holding you back. Spiritually is for pussies
Jose Myers
>It's like someone reading Lord of the Rings, then another person comes over to them and goes "hahaha holy shit, you actually believe in wizards and elves and shit? you fucking loser, wow."
I really like your insight. Seems so true!
Charles Nguyen
I’m not sure how you find this an impossible task. Ive personally introduced three people to neo-platonism and taught them the dialogues on my own time, and I was introduced to it by my statistics professor. All it takes is effort to spread the truth.
>Name any gov that has been successful in justice. There is none So we should give up on justice because man is incapable of attaining the ideal? Again, people are unwilling to listen to some prophet who claims to know the word of god when the rest of humanity cannot hear it. How many kings have led their people astray with the authority of their god on their shoulders? I’d rather man use logic and reason to objectively define morality than rely on faith and fairy tales.
Ryder James
>I’d rather man use logic and reason to objectively define morality than rely on faith and fairy tales.
Welcome to 2018? What I have laid out for you is the truth. Real "Ego death" or True "Enlightenment" is accepting this. False enlightenment is the idea of inner divinity. That you have the power to define good and evil as God. This is what all occult groups believe. "Be gone dull care" is a way of letting go of "karma" because to them evil deeds do not matter just part of a "Dancing field of consciousness" No consequences.
Dominic Collins
>you can do anything because nothing is holding you back
Didn't I read that in the secret?
>Spiritually is for pussies
Did this guy escape from Sup Forums?
Asher Miller
What happens if i want to kill you?
No. What happens if i do just kill you. No threats, no warnings. What then?
Michael Nguyen
sorry, was meant for
Nathaniel Davis
Nietzsches super human was simply a man that would create his own values. The idea that he was talking about a genetic super race or something else like that is pure fabrication. Nietzsche also eventually came to dislike Darwinism a lot.
Nathaniel Ortiz
Paganism is the answer. Most of Christian traditions are actually adopted from original European Pagan traditions. It is a shame, and purposefully done that original pagan traditions are either suppressed or just turned into that they were always Christian.
I hope and wish that Paganism will rise again, just for the sake of having those old symbolic traditions again that isn't based off a middle-eastern book. Instead it is true european nature esoteric symbolism.
>science making belief in God creating the world Science did no such thing
Brandon Martinez
A fire upon the steppe clears way for spring to come. Loose the blade and open the vein, an end and from it a new beginning. A dawn, a wellspring of eternal becoming.
Jack Bailey
You look pathetic ranting like that, and this whole situation is simply because of your misunderstanding of what I said and of nihilism. I specifically mentioned Nietzsche, Kierkgaard, other existentilists, and Camus because they are all nihilists, they simply took a different response to it. They reached the conclusion of nihilism, but instead of falling into eternal dispair, they logically grew another philosophy out of it (existentialism and absurdism). But they are still nihilists as they don't believe in objective values.
Aaron Russell
>The idea that he was talking about a genetic super race or something else like that is pure fabrication. Who the hell said anything about that? Where'd that come from?
Henry Collins
The stoics were mostly deists, and you don't need to worship the Greek or Roman pantheon to be practice stoicism.
Jackson Flores
I read too much into what you were saying and drew my own conclusion without asking.
Josiah Gomez
>and you don't need to worship the Greek or Roman pantheon to be practice stoicism. thats true
>The stoics were mostly deists paganism is itself closer to deism and keep it mind that pagans used gods and god interchangeably
i think going back to your roots is the best idea and combining it with philosophy
James Diaz
Strange comments.
>Most of Christian traditions are actually adopted from original European Pa
The "truth" of Christianity is predicated on traditions. Celebrating Christmas doesn't have much to do with actually being Christian or its concepts.
>Paganism will rise again
Hopefully not. The validity of truthfulness has nothing to do with the origin of the idea. It only matters if it is true or not.
>Listen to Varg,
Give me a good reason.
Anthony Wilson
>he validity of truthfulness has nothing to do with the origin of the idea. It only matters if it is true or not. >a bunch of jewish nonsense is truth this is you right now
Connor Sullivan
>What happens if i want to kill you? >No. >What happens if i do just kill you. No threats, no warnings. >What then? Then you killed me? The fuck do you think happens?
Benjamin Gomez
There is only one thought, which defines the apex of European culture: The Holy Trinity.
When the Trinity was destroyed through various heresies, void returned to Europe. To fill up this void, we have to restore Europe to its innermost own unity; the Trinity.
It's a tale of 3 cities; a tale of 3 transcendences. Athens, Rome, Jerusalem. Socrates transcended the nihilism of the sophists to reach absolute knowledge of the good. He was murdered and philosophy was born. Caesar transcended the nihilism of the decadent republic to attain absolute power. He was murdered and the imperium was born. Christ transcended the nihilism of the Pharisees to fulfill the law and bring absolute justice and redemption into the world. He was murdered on the cross and christian messianism was born.
These three transcendences eventually became one, they were united in thought and faith and political action and molded into Europe. The Imperium, Philosophy and messianic Justice. This is the European Trinity.
Taken each on their own, disconnected from each other, these transcendences might still be considered noble. But neither Roman Will to Power, nor Platonic academics, nor Messianic Justice alone will save us from the void. They are but so many noble heresies, one-sided and shortsighted attempts at restoring the broken unity... We must embrace the fullness of our European tradition, without playing one city out against the other. Whoever finds a post-christian way to unite the Trinity again wins the prize.
Bentley Murphy
You be a christian. Look at both canon and non canonical accounts of Jesus Christ and model your life after him. Not after the letters, not after the old testament. Model it after the way Jesus lived and breathed. He was our example.
Ayden Rivera
Christianity isn't about filling a void, it's about being in union with God. Doesn't matter if you think it's "Dead" or not, the way God reveal himself will always be the same even if people dismiss it
Ian Lee
>i think going back to your roots is the best idea and combining it with philosophy I already share many of the sentiments expressed by pagans, such as the appreciation of nature. I'm probably going to contradict most of what I've said in this thread, I should have mentioned it in my first post. Despite my problems with Christianity (and its own problems in the modern world), I do feel sympathetic to it and even drawn to it, but I simply cannot override my problems with its doctrine and my understanding of its origins.
Nathaniel Young
Mind sharing your problems with Christian doctrine? Maybe we can help.
Brandon Barnes
>>he validity of truthfulness has nothing to do with the origin of the idea. It only matters if it is true or not. >>a bunch of jewish nonsense is truth >this is you right now
Please provide valid argumentation that my assessment of truth is not correct. I'm really hoping that you aren't a dipshit.
Isaiah Ortiz
...
Aiden Nelson
If you're actually interested look into Buddhism. I'm not saying become a Buddhist, because really it's not necessary. What can help you in your search for happiness is the tools that Buddhism offers you.
Keep a strong spirit and never forget about your country completely. Always keep that goal in the back of your mind. But if there are forces or of your control it makes no sense to dwell on them to the point of spiritual exhaustion. Focus instead on yourself and try to find a woman who will help you create your own community by means of a family.
There's deeper spiritual values that can help you both in Buddhism and Christianity but in a short discussion it's impossible to express it all.
Jose Young
>jewish nonsense The Jews attempted to rewrite the bible and removed volumes of their own canonical scripture so people wouldn't follow Christ. HMMMMMMMMMM
Thomas Williams
I've been trying to figure this out myself, all I can think about is suicide lately though.
Jace Long
This. And his son will lead the people there though what he wants most is for people to come to his father, because God hates no man and is hardly a warmonger for any who truly study the bible. They worship their father Satan
also digits
Asher Stewart
>The Jews attempted to rewrite the bible and removed volumes of their own canonical scripture so people wouldn't follow Christ. >HMMMMMMMMMM
Please provide evidence for such a and coherent explanation.
Gavin Allen
I've stated several in this thread. 1) The downplaying of the real world for one that is basically synonymous with imaginary one. 2) Substantial components of the religion, such as the resurrection, are profoundly at odds with science and reason 3) The belief in a God without evidence, except for the doctrine itself. Basically all of my problems come from the fact it requires me to make a massive suspension of disbelief and of reason in favour of faith. I like and admire a lot Christians, both past and present, like Dostoevsky, but I can't make the leap. I feel very conflicted about it, some part of me sees the good and wants to take part, but it is overrided by everything else.
I'm going to sleep now, so I won't be responding, but I'll read everything tomorrow and maybe make another thread in the evening.
Joseph Mitchell
I have a decent life, great gf and family, and so forth, that keeps me grounded. But there was a time when I also considered suicide, the fact it would be a disgrace to my family, living and dead, stopped me from doing it. And I also want to see how this ride ends and enjoy the worthwhile things in life. There are so many good things to live for.
My issue is with the larger society, often I feel like an alien walking on the planet. Everyone and everything is so disconnected. My own little bubble of happiness is the thing keeping me going.
Brandon Murphy
>i dont like faith because it requires faith how much of a brainlet are you damn
Lincoln Price
>1) The downplaying of the real world for one that is basically synonymous with imaginary one. Christians hold jobs and take care of the families like everyone else, user. >2) Substantial components of the religion, such as the resurrection, are profoundly at odds with science and reason Whether you believe in a literal or figurative interpretation of the resurrection, provided you can picture it, the psychological effect is the same. It's a story playing out in your imagination, with real world consequences, much like erotica excites the body, even though the reader knows there isn't a real naked person before him. 3) The belief in a God without evidence, except for the doctrine itself. I address the motivational function of God here - archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/119277518/#119286689 Essentially, whatever you come up with as the perfect motivator will be cognitively equivalent to God.
We make leaps of faith all the time, whenever we take a hypothesis and convert it into a belief. The problem of induction ensures that there's no end to the evidence we'd need to have 100% certainty of most of the things we take for granted when we make any decision.
Thomas Sanchez
Well I am a complete loser, got fired from my last job, just to get fired from my new job from failing a drug test and now living with my parents at 25 at my parents as a NEET.
Christopher Scott
The only sense of belonging I ever got is this shitty gook cartoon board
Grayson Harris
Fill the void with laughter as all these bluepill faggots run around trying to figure out why the world is going to shit. We try to explain it to them and provide several examples throughout history but they dont listen.
Robert Morales
>We make leaps of faith all the time Deductive reasoning is the exception, but we can't depend on it to live. We have to cross the street, there are no guarantees.
Wyatt Lee
I'm 26 and only just started university. Defining yourself in absolute negative terms is silly as well as wrong. Defining yourself by your job is just as mistaken. You're obviously aware of your own mishaps, now it's up to you to make the corrections, and if it takes more than one try, so be it.
Dominic Foster
I have blown every oppertunity in my life to go drink or do drugs, I am a complete wretch, I will never have a family, a good job or a house, I might as well kill myself so I'm not a burden on my parents anymore.
>Christians hold jobs and take care of the families like everyone else, user. Only have time to respond to this. That's obviously true, but that's not what I was getting at. Christianity elicits a sort of pacifism to the material world. Follow the doctrine and brunt all the world's suffering, in the next life you'll get your just rewards. To me, this is akin to a death cult.
Carson Murphy
Much of its history says otherwise, user.
Lucas Sanchez
Why do you pretend to be a Christcuck on Sup Forums of all places?
Jackson Brooks
I think you are on the right track... keep working on it.
>Basically all of my problems come from the fact it requires me to make a massive suspension of disbelief and of reason in favour of faith.
I don't think there is a suspension of disbelief. If you are speaking of the resurrection, based on the evidence, it seems more likely to have happened than not.
Reason: Well, I think without God there is no reason. Reason flows from his very being. He is the Logos.
Robert Ross
Nice digits
Joseph Johnson
Consider psychological help. Short term to get you back on track.
Justin Johnson
>It's true. Christianity is just an off-shoot of Judaism.
