A

A
RANK
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>this Skill allows for the prediction of trajectory
>at Rank A, it is essentially in the realm of predicting the future.

OH GOD OH GOD HE'S MOVING HIS SNAKE ARMS IN WEIRD WAYS LIKE THE FLICKER JAB GUY FROM HAJIME NO IPPO WHATEVER SHALL I DO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PREDICT

STOP CRITICISING ANIME

IT'S NOT MADE WITH GOOD WRITING IN MIND

IT'S A FUCKING CARTOON FOR CHILDREN

We /tumblr/ now

a part of me is compelled to argue against OP about how this made sense, though it was admittedly a bit goofy

I just don't think it's possible to have discussions about anime on Sup Forums anymore

I don't know what you expected from such a shit franchise.

i-it's actually really good and well thought out i-if you read the vn you secondary!

>"Bazett is the strongest except Kuzuki would beat her and Kotomine in his prime was stronger"

What else to expect from a drooling retard like Nasu

Everybody knows that members of MC's highschool automatically get plot armour exceptions

lol

>heroic spirits are legendary heroes so incredibly powerful and significant that they stood out from the entire rest of humanity

>saber gets her ass kicked by a history teacher
>assassin gets his ass kicked by a priest
>gilgamesh gets his ass kicked by a japanese highschooler
>caster gets her ass kicked by a japanese highschooler (female)

So this is the power... of Nasu writing...

is nasu basically saying that each japanese is a superhuman freak of nature

Shirou is a mic

Age of Gods reinforcement > age of Cucks Instinct.

Kuzuki has a large boost to his general combat ability when he uses his Snake against someone for the first time. His entire style is supposed to be weird as fuck so that people just don't react to it properly, but when you actually look at it calmly, it fucking sucks and is easy to defeat. Also, take into account that this is all assuming he gets massive buffs from Caster, elevating him to a level where he can defeat Servants, who even Bazett can't fight without Fragarach.

Kotomine in his prime was an excellent combatant, but he's an old dude past his prime who would indeed lose to Bazett currently. He also has the command seals that he can use to enhance himself, so he also has a powerful advantage that Bazett doesn't. Even with those, he would be beaten by her now, which should only enhance her standing in our eyes.

Being the strongest doesn't mean you can't be caught by surprised and killed because of it, and even Heroic Spirits were humans once, but you don't see anyone complaining about them being able to beat Bazett because that's in the past and it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand, which is Masters of the fifth Grail War.

It's a metaphor about heroes not being a thing of the past. Fate/Stay Night is the genesis of a new golden era of heroic spirits.

But Nasu literally made it a rule that modern people can't become heroes because technology made everything easy as shit so you don't need to be an uber badass anymore to do extraordinary things

>you'll never have Medea route where she helps Shirou achieves his sword autism even harder
;_;

...

>Even with those, he would be beaten by her now
Really? I know basically nothing about Bazett because I refuse to read HA - is she really supposed to be that good at hand-to-hand? Beating high-ranking Executors isn't supposed to be that easy, after all.

Appropriately, none of the servant beating humans from F/SN actually used modern technology. They all used ancient martial arts, magic and swords.

Also, Grand Order shat on Nasu's no modern tech rule.

>Beating high-ranking Executors isn't supposed to be that easy
It's not. Just ask yourself why Kirei is Lancer's master in Stay Night instead of Bazett.

Intuition*

And wasnt the actual point that that skill was the one that fucked saber the most in that fight?

Yes. Predicting with intuition instead of calm observation is the worst thing you could do against Kuzuki.
Archer's Mind's Eye worked just fine against Kuzuki in the church.

Fair enough.

Who wins in a fight with equal amounts of preparation: Kirei or Hansa?

Young Kirei or old Kirei?

Young Kirei. Prime Kirei.

Do you count the crapton of command spells he took from his father as part of his powers?

Yes.

Then Kirei

>saber gets her ass kicked by a history teacher
A history teacher that was raised as an assassin from birth and is enhanced by another legendary hero. Also, he had a style specifically meant for catching people off guard and killing them instantly which essentially increased his chances of succeeding in the first encounter immensely in exchange for being very unlikely to be able to do anything in subsequent encounters with the same opponent.
>assassin gets his ass kicked by a priest
The weakest servant (a spirit) gets temporarily immobilized by an exorcist, not too bad. Kotomine didn't have any actual method of harming him anyway, so he instead went after the Master, as you pretty much always should
>gilgamesh gets his ass kicked by a japanese highschooler
A Japanese highschooler that absorbed the abilities and skills of a Heroic Spirit version of himself, had the mana support of an incredibly talented magus with huge reserves and was inside a Reality Marble that was essentially a perfect counter to Gilgamesh's main method of fighting, and even then, if Gilgamesh wasn't so arrogant as to not use Ea, he would have killed Shirou almost instantly. Also, he didn't actually beat Gilgamesh. The grail and Archer's distraction was what beat him in the end, so even with all that, he would have probably died, especially if you go by the knowledge that Nasu oversaw the production of the UBW anime, with all of its additions being approved by him.
>caster gets her ass kicked by a japanese highschooler (female)
The pure magus type servant with pretty much no special melee skills or capabilities whatsoever was caught off guard by an immensely talented magus who got a brief opportunity thanks to her opponent playing around for too long. Doesn't seem too far-fetched to me, powerful opponents getting defeated thanks to large amounts of hubris is a staple of Nasu's writing, see pretty much every fight above..

>King of Jobbers jobs
In other news water is wet and I still haven't got Jeanne after 10hours of rerolls

Based on?

Explain Rin killing motherfucking Berserker, or Shirou blocking and dodging Cu Chulainn's and Medusa's attacks. Or Shirou beating fucking Saber Alter of all people in a swordfight.

My opinion, what else? it's a hypothetical battle.

Doesn't the original and uncut VN suffers from cringe worthy dialogue?
>Tohsaka's anus is defenseless

Herc's schtick is to stand there and take everything. Shirou's robot brain for the second

The best way to get into fatshit is the visual novel right?

[long chuuni rambling by Nasu] but it's fucking PLOTMAGIC don't think too hard

And plot stupidity for the third?

>An ant kills a lion
>That was a VERY skilled ant.
No, that's asspull and that's every hero tale ever. No need to try justify it.

>Fate/Stay Night
Five years after the death of his foster father, strange events begin happening in town, and he finds himself drawn into a battle between the magi called "Masters".

"I have a secret I haven't told you...I'm a magi."

Fate tells the story of Emiya Shirou, who accidentally summons Saber and is dragged into the 5th Holy Grail War.

There are story scenarios in the game, each telling an alternate version of the story, revealing different aspects of the Grail War and the characters involved.

Story I: Fate
Story II: UBW
Story III: HF / Other Night

>Fate/Stay Night: Realta Nua
Updated version of FSN for PS2, PS Vita and iOS. All 18+ materials were taken out, new features include all-new CG and plots, voice acting, and other improvements. The new PC version released as three separate games, each containing one of the game's stories.

>Fate/Stay Night: Garden of Avalon
Short story about Saber. Don't read this until completing FSN Story I: Fate.

>Fate/Hollow Ataraxia
Sequel story to FSN. In Ataraxia Shirou finds himself stuck in a 4-day time loop that reenacts the events of the 5th Holy Grail War. Shirou must deal with a new Master, as well as a mysterious woman, all the while figuring out how to escape from the time loop.

Don't play or watch this until completing FSN.

>Fate/Zero
Prequel story to FSN. The ultimate battle royale, in which seven Mages each vying for control of the miracle-granting Holy Grail summon seven Epic Heroes and fight until only one remains... The Holy Grail War.

Don't read or watch this until completing FSN.

>Fate/Unlimited Codes
Fighting game based on FSN and FHA.

>The Case Files of Lord El-Melloi II
Spinoff of FZ. Don't read this until completing FSN and FZ.

>> 159007455
> By a japanese highschooler (female)
Pretty much this thread in a nutshell. You know nothing about the thing you're trying to discuss. You do not even know anything about Tousakas and their magic karate autism, you never opened the source material, which has some real effort put into it. But, hey, you watched a shitty new wave anime and now you can feel smarter by criticizing that shit! Congratulations.

I would berry my dick so far inside Rin's ass, whoever could pull it out would be crowned king arthur.

She was captured by Berserker, then got a chance to shoot her collection of A-rank gems in Herc's face.

Cu was just fucking with him, and he was, as always, looking for a good time. He even took the time to talk with him, even though he was a nobody. He also doesn't want to splat people, so he wasn't going very serious against a seemingly normal human either. Medusa was playing around, doing that whole seductive killer thing, was under Shinji's control, and when she actually got kinda serious she kicked his ass and was about to rip his eye out.

Archer's arm and a suicide attack from Shirou that Archer had devised to be unblockable. Saber also didn't need to kill him, and her lingering affection for Shirou made her stay her hand until the end, shown by her stopping to talk with him and egg him on.

But F/GO exists, user. Where it literally says grail heroes are just scrub versions of ultra powerful heroes.

>ANIME
>FOR CHILDREN

>Fate/stay night is a Japanese visual novel developed by Type-Moon, which was originally released as an adult game for windows.
The 'writing' (lack thereof) probably makes the show more competent than the VN in regard to this particular fight.

He had Archer's arm and was willing to put everything into that fight with Saber Alter. He literally dies afterwards.

Well, he doesn't really die per say, he just becomes a vegetable trapped in a collapsing cave.

Wow, dude, it's so adult. You're so mature for reading this. Damn. You're definitely not a retarded immature manchild, that's for sure!

Different guy, but to add to this, Kuzuki is really, REALLY not some random moron. He was a graduate of an assassination school where the stakes for failure or inability to produce results was death, and the course of study was twenty years long. The Snake technique he uses was one that was created specifically for him; no one else has it, and he learned it by spending every waking moment practicing it.

Incidentally, one of the other graduates of that same school featured in a different work has an even more ridiculous assassination ability than Kuzuki does.

>F/GO exists
Good one, user, I'll play it after watching the Tsukihime anime.

Per se.
Thank you for the clarification, too.

This is taken too literally. Contemporary tech doesn't produce hero units (unless you're a Counter Guardian like Redman), but it doesn't mean motherfuckers have to be from the Stone Age, tech wise.

Technological pioneering, with the right amount of story behind it, is mystical and legendary enough to make hero units. Even then, the only legit 20th Century tech HSes are the inventor of the computer, the legendary outlaw of the Wild West (and his NP is more being that damn good than his gun), and fucking Tesla, who is a nerd god.

Of the other 20th Century HSes: Helena does it through magecraft, Nightingale does it through legit heroics and is still trash level, Edison does it through fuckery involving secret rituals and all of the US Presidents to that point. Jack is a near-mythical serial killer and Moriarty is a fake.

All the 21st Century cash grab HSes are like Mashu, are EMIYA, or are Grails and say fuck logic (Iri, Illya, Kuro).

>Shirou beating fucking Saber Alter of all people in a swordfight.
You know that isn't true. She doesn't even unleash Excalibur like she did if Shirou brought Rider with him.

The whole story is just concentrated chuuni. When writing it the only thing Nasu had in mind was how to make the main characters look cool, logic and coherence are irrelevant.

Wrong, Nasu basically said modern people are too cynical for the typical creation of heroic spirits. They have to believe in the superhuman/supernatural capabilities of heroes or basically worship them.

It have nothing to do with technology itself. Most modern people aren't naive enough to think the modern feats are done supernaturally, and most of the time they believe it was technology that done most of the work. Its literally more likely the techonolgy itself becomes the heroic spirit

Rin was being hand crushed by berserker, but she prepared before jewel magic to increase her defense against physical damage. Thus it allowed Rin to deliver a close range rank A jewel combination blast attack

>I can't read
I said he beat her in a swordfight. Beating one of the absolute best swordsmen in the Nasuverse in a swordfight while being surpassed statwise is still fucking ridiculous.

>she prepared before jewel magic to increase her defense against physical damage
She did? didn't she try to freeze his arm and fail?

The VN made it clear in that scene Cu was trying to get some semblance of fight out of Shirou, because he was to forced to focus on scouting instead of fighting servants. Shirou himself could tell that Cu was lazily stabbing him

Shirou had Archer's arm and he put everything he had in using a downloaded technique that SYSTEMATICALLY render an opponent defenseless. Saber was going easy on Shirou due to lingering respect. She was giving Shirou advice and egging him onward. She was basically rooted to the spot and didn't chase him and let him catch his breathe multiple times.
Not to mention her agility was heavily nerfed

Why did most of the UBW and HF fights make no sense?

Or maybe the martians did it? I can't really remember what happened in the VN so i just assume whatever stupid shit that comes into my head.

The VN specifically stated she had a jewel placed at her abodomen to activate in case of situation like getting caught

>A borrowed technique beat a genuine swordsman that had much better stats
And Saber going easy on shirou was her not using Excalibur or Prana Burst. She didn't nerf her own technique at all, she had literally zero openings before the Crane Wing asspull, she was flawless.

I thought the jewel eating was in UBW against the grail. She did it first in Fate? Rin is one cunning motherfucker.
But Herc has A+ strength, with + being a multiplier in the Nasuverse system, even if she used an A rank gem she should have still died.

Post that piss edit.

Based on what

I'm sorry to break it to you, but when the character puts on his new cool DARK ARMOR and starts to look like half-dead shit - it doesn't necessarily means that he's got stronger.
Blackened servants suck. I thought Nasu made it pretty clear with Berserker.

It's amazing to me how often the same criticisms get posted dozens of times, when they're answered and thoroughly explained every single time
It's almost like people don't care about the actual logic of the story and just want to shitpost

Saber Alter is necessarily stronger solely for the factor that she's receiving effectively unlimited mana from Sakura.
She only receives relatively minor nerfs in other areas, like lower agility.

>Saber's sixth sense can theoretically surpass thought for a natural talent for battle decision, but it didn't predict her blunder.
Blease read the source material.

Those fuckers can't even bother to read a single paragraph from the scene in the VN that they thrying to "criticize". Whatever, it's still better than morons trying to discuss a plot in a fucking mobile game.

Archer's whole thing is that he's a beast because of his skill and trickery. Numerically, he has the absolute worst stats in the grail war, worse than even Fake Assassin, but he's still able to do all kinds of cool shit. Shirou essentially became Archer for that instant, so it's not too farfetched, especially since Alter's Instinct is dulled in comparison to regular Saber, so the tricky shit he pulled worked better.

iirc, he barely survives and gets most of his body replaced with puppet parts from that Kara no Kyoukai lady.

The problem here is that you're taking "adult" to have an inherently positive connotation, rather than just denoting target demographic

Berserker was not Berserker Alter, they didn't undergo the same transformation.
Nasu also made it abundantly clear that Saber Alter is miles stronger than normal Saber. Only Rin Saber is as strong as Alter, but it doesn't have unlimited prana, so Alter is still better.

Saber was basically rooted to the spot. The crane wing technique was designed to take advantage of the fact a person could only physically have the time to parry limited amount attacks at once. Especially if they all come from different directions, which is done with projection exploit

Medea is for Kuzuki.

She was still being crushed, especially when Berserker revived

>tricky shit
It was pure swordsmanship technique, where was the trickery? he didn't play mind games with Saber, or trace stats, or use a Noble Phantasm, it was just Archer's sword skills. It's utter bullshit that EMIYA can best King Arthur in a swordfight, let alone a second hand EMIYA.

He basically did a variant of Tsubame Gaeshi with that one attack from all sides. And those MINOR NERFS of Alter didn't let her to pull the same shit Saber pulled against Kojirou.

Everyone owes it to themselves to be the best version of themselves. Children are just inexperienced and don't know any better. sage for offtopic

Kojiro's sword was bent, Saber didn't pull shit against him. She never experienced the perfect Tsubame Gaeshi.

The +multiplier is not active all the time. Nasu stated that its effects can only be demonstrated depending on the circumstance. Basically its a clutch boost

That's mostly because of how inconsistent Nasu is about his entire story. Most fights are basically Nasu trying to explain why the underdog wins.


A good analogy for this would be boxing. If an athelete were to be marketed as the strongest in the world, and then proceed to lose every fight he ever gets into, then everyone would agree he just fucking sucks. The reasons why he lose just end up sounding like excuses in the end.

Half the characters are called the "strongest" at some point, he just likes exaggeration.

Wasn't it only bent in the Fate route? As far as i can remember, it wasn't the case in UBW. Well, maybe i just mistaken. I'll look it up later, sorry.

She has more brute strength at the expense of her agility and her Instinct getting nerfed which is the exact thing that Crane Wing took advantage of as Archer's arm completely overtook Shirou's brain and performed the pinnacle technique he came up with against a person holding back mentally and physically.

The technique is tricky bullshit since it relies on magnetic boomerang swords, striking blind spots nobody can cover, feints and self-made suppression fire with swords. It is the second most what the fuck sword skill next to Tsubame Gaeshi warping space time because fuck swallows.

Are you being obtuse because you waifu Seibah, because you have an Arthurian Mythos fetish, or because you're a powerlevels fag?

Yeah, and there's a direct correlation between how often they're called the strongest, and how often they lose.

The spark liner high scene happened in a split second. Its a glorified delta strike to basically attack from multiple directions in a way to exploit the temporary opening it creates do to the human body being unable to defend against 360 degrees attack

You're thinking about the anime

Hercules suffered the worst

Now you're mistaken. The fight in which he beats Saber Alter is Sparks High Liner, a bad end. He doesn't have Rider to assist him like he does in one of the two good ending paths, where he projects Rho Aias and Rider uses Bellephoron to beat Saber Alter. In Sparks High Liner, Shirou fries his brain trying to replicate Archer's moves.

>Tsubame Gaeshi warping space time because fuck swallows.
Hey now, that swallow was probably a fucking Phantasmal Beast given how much it took to fucking kill it. I bet it took glee in fucking with Fake Assassin until it finally bit the dust to maximal sword autism.

Hercules is a great example of exactly why being the "strongest" doesn't win you the war.
His parameters and fighting abilities are all outstanding in every respect, but all he can do is batter away at things. That's not enough without the ability to strategize and come up with crazy stunts no one expects.
I don't know why everyone gets so fixated on powerlevels.

Her agility and Instinct were still way better than Shirou's, still bullshit.
And saying using K&B's natural abilities is tricky bullshit is like saying Invisible Air and Prana Burst are tricky bullshit, especially considering Archer's personal swordfighting style revolves around the properties of those swords. Shirou beat her fair and square in a duel where she had the upper hand in every aspect, including psychological since Shirou's mind was breaking apart, and that's just an asspull.

>end with ad hominem
Classic autistic Shiroufag.

I remember that in the anime DEEN tried to explain it by some shit like "the stairs got in his way of performing true Tsubame Gaeshi". In the new TV series ufotables just didn't explain it at all. Well, that's what they did for the whole two seasons anyway.
I was sure that in the actual UBW route of the VN Saber managed to evade Tsubame Gaeshi exploiting her high stats, but i can't really remember that fight at all right now. Did it just went exactly the same way as it did in Fate?

Powerlevels really don't matters much in Nasuverse.

in Nasuverse it is about stacking the deck or having as much situational advantage as possible to gank stronger foes.
So many of the fights in Tsukihime and FSN basically boils down to that, with only conceptual powers being the dampener.

And Archer is a great example of why being the "weakest" doesn't stop you from being able to win if you play smart.