How could The Germans lose the war when they had the AK 47 in their Forces

>They obviously choke

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out numbered 4 to 1, each German was killing 10 men each before dying. They where to spread out protecting gains like France and Poland while fighting British/Russian forces.

they should have never invaded poland

this along with a billion other reasons
whyd you make this thread?

sage

Wasn't the production of STG 44 done in secret because Hitler didn't approve of it?

Hitler didn't approve the distribution of the gun until far too late in the war because he was a Gewehrcuck who served in WW1 and didn't understand the utility of an assault rifle until it was demonstrated to him.
Same reason the Germans fared so poorly in Russia, because Hitler refused to supply them properly and they marched East without winter gear.
Hitler pretty much impeded his own army at every turn with his retardation.

Yeah his autism dictated that they use the same rifle he did in WW1

Myths.

In April 1944, Hitler took some interest in the weapon tests and ordered the weapon (with some minor updates) to be re-designated as the MP 44. In July 1944, at a meeting of the various army heads about the Eastern Front, when Hitler asked what they needed, a general exclaimed, "More of these new rifles!". The exclamation caused some confusion (Hitler's response is reputed to have been "What new rifle?"), but once Hitler saw the MP 44 being demonstrated, he was impressed and gave it the title Sturmgewehr. Seeing the possibility of a propaganda gain, the rifle was again renamed as the Sturmgewehr 44 (StG 44), to highlight the new class of weapon it represented. The designation translates to "Storm (Assault) rifle, model 1944", thereby introducing the term "assault rifle".

Call of Duty says maybeh

>Hitler pretty much impeded his own army at every turn with his retardation.
Wasn't the trapping of the German 6th army also heavily influenced by him and his command?

>In April 1944
I feel like you've answered OP's question here.

Hitler was a fucken armchair general that micromanaged shit he had no business micromanaging.

...

Yeah, produced way too late in the war to have mattered.

Even if they had the design in 1938, it would've taken years for mass production to get it into the hands of most of the army.

industry bombed into ruins, logistical lines broken, bridges and roadways in chaos, collapsing defensive lines and everyone knowing the war is over

Yea, he ordered the 6th Army to hold ground and stopped a major breakout operation to save the men.

It takes some time to produce millions of assault rifles, mate. They produced as many as they could with the limited resources they had.

It wouldn’t have changed anything anyway. The only thing that would have changed things is Hitler telling America he will break the alliance with Japan after Pearl Harbor.

>Small arms winning WW2

Hitler should have marched straight for Moscow after Smolensk. It should have been a quick and decisive victory for the Wehrmacht but it dragged on for too long. Hitler wanted to encircle the Red Army in various areas and secure Ukraine. By the time they began to march on Moscow, Winter was on it's way. Too late. Also, Gott strafe England.

He was worried it was a trap, just like the one set for Napoleon. Fog of war meant he had no way of knowing how close the Soviets were to collapse. If he had taken Moscow Stalin would likely have been forced out, even if the commies hadn't surrendered it would have started a huge internal power struggle that might have ruined them eventually.

> Axis forces with numeric advantage at onset of Barbarossa
> Axis/Soviet k:d ratio 1 to 1.2 at wars end
> "We never had a chance against da hordes!!"
How do wehraboos know so little about this war they pretend to be obsessed with?

russia*

>he was a ww1 war vet
>no business micromanaging

shot yourself in the foot with those mental gymnastics.

Hitler shouldn't have invaded Russia at all, at least for another decade. The country was huge and so were reserves, he was going to face a huge enemy even if only by their sheer numbers.
Pretty stupid thing to do when you're already at war.

>each German was killing 10 men each before dying
t. i am 14/88 gerban amerikano

This. Despite being massively outnumbered, they still had the most insane k/d ratio than any other.

If Hitler knew the Russians had the t-34 he said he would not have invaded.

It's you who's doing mental gymnastics you idiot.
Do you seriously think that being a foot soldier executing ground level orders is remotely similar to being a general concerned with devising strategy and how to distribute thousands upon thousands of men and billions in resources?
Hitler's shit decisions fucked up the war for the germans, particularly since he took more and more of them the worse things got.

I will add that Moscow was actually much more important to the USSR than it was under the Tsars, so its loss would have been more damaging. Stalin had moved the whole upper bureaucracy to Moscow to weaken the St Petersburg/Leningrad faction of the party, and Leningrad was under siege. The Russian military in 1812 was much more capable of operating without a entrenched central command, and the economy at the time was still mostly feudal so it didn't need the bureaucracy in the short term. Under the USSR however taking Moscow would have sent the Communist Party into chaos. The Soviets could not have pulled what the Russians did in 1812, they would have been forced to defend the city and if Hitler had pushed early he would have taken it. The Germans might still have lost, but it would have given them more of a chance.

cuck

Exactly. He bevame a fucking idiot on a power trip when he won two easy victories.

>they had the AK 47
More like an AR-15 with the dust cover and the magazine well.

>funfact: ak47 more closely resembles the m1 garand in operation than the STG44

right around the time he began getting daily doses of high powered stimulants, what a coincidence

Here's Hitler talking about the number of Russian tanks and talking about how they're fucked.

youtu.be/ClR9tcpKZec?t=1m20s

The STG rifles that you see in the picture (early AK 47 type rifles, first of their kind) were made too little too late in reality. Had they been present from the beginning of the war, they may well have changed history, but at the start of the war your average Wehrmacht was armed with either an MP40 or a Karabiner98k bolt action rifle.

It wasn't until the second half of the war and further towards the end that the Gewehr43 automatic rifles (Superior to the Karabiner in capacity and rate of fire of course) and the STG43's were beginning to be circulated amongst the troops. Again, this was too little too late as the war was already turning against their favor in '44.

A bigger problem was Germany not having a heavy bomber.

He should have listened to his Generals in command. He became too confident in his own abilities after his victory in the West. Most of his Generals wanted to get on the road to Moscow, the troops were waiting to go as well. Of course, we will never know if marching on Moscow would turn out to be a great decision or not. Not that it matters anymore. We're all paying the price for the downfall of Germany now.
He should have taken Britain out of the war entirely so he could focus solely on the Eastern Front. Unfortunately his love for England was too great. Pity really. He should have ripped Britain to pieces.

He was a fucking corporal.

It's more complex then "hur dur Hitler had autism and was a dumb leader"

1. Production:

Introducing the new rifle in 1943-44 would have been very difficult because the STG-44 relied on machine stamped parts. The Germans were trying to achieve a total war economy that maximized the output of weapons. Investing in a new rifle concept that would ultimately be very expensive and limit the production of the tried and tested Kar-98k. It would have been a risky decision.

2. Logistics

The STG-44 shot a brand new round. The German logistics on the Eastern front was already held together by a shoe string. Introducing a relatively small number of rifles would have meant a lot of soldiers without ammo. The rifle needed to be deployed at the division level.

3. German small arms doctrine

During both World Wars, the German infantry squad centered around the machine gun, whereas the Western powers centered around the rifleman. The machine gun was meant to be the primary killing weapon of the squad. The rifleman's duty was primarily to support the machine gun crew and carry ammunition. Introducing the STG-44 meant entirely revising squad doctrine.

In 1943 ,when the weapon was theoretically ready, Hitler knew that the tide was turning. The production of quantity was more important to bring about a decisive victory against the Soviet Union in order to prepare for an invasion by the Western Powers.

Ever heard of the Heinkel He 177?

That is a meme. The STGs were easy as shit to make, all stamped parts. They were cheaper than K98s to manufacture. By the end of the war they made almost half a million of them, and they weren't in production all that long. The problem with them though was that it was using a new cartridge so that made ammo procurement a challenge.
The reason Hitler at first disapproved of the rifle is because he thought it an unnecessary waste. The 7.92 Kurz was not a cartridge in wide production and was incompatible with that used in the army's rifles and machine guns. Additionally there was the effort required to retool factories to mass produce a new weapon.

E4 mafia strikes again.

t.achmed

The Germans could not have taken Moscow in 1941. Turning south towards Kiev was the correct military decision. Had the Germans continued towards Moscow their Southern flank would have been too exposed. They would not have the manpower or logistical strength to encircle and capture Moscow. They would suffer same fate that befell the 6th army in Stalingrad once the Siberian troops were transferred.

OK, no good heavy bombers. They called it the flying coffin for good reason and it was only a fraction of their bomber fleet.

The stamped parts are easy to make only after you have the expensive machines mad and set up to make them.

StG 44 didn't work well, in cold areas.
I was told it was the cadridge slide.

read The Germans could not have taken Moscow in 1941.

Is the this the weekly thread where people that have no clue what the fuck they're talking about discuss the Ostfront?

Like I said, we'll never know because he never did march straight for Moscow. The Generals seemed pretty convinced that they could take it though. I believe them. The longer Hitler waited, the sooner Winter came. By Winter, they couldn't take it due to weather conditions and the Red Army had set up defenses in and around Moscow.

Hello Adolf

My my, ello mein Führer!

fedor von bock thought he could do it. im more inclined to trust a german general than an austrian corporal when it comes to military matters.

you mean they were shooting 10 american shit tanks before one German went down. stop posting this one to to meme its just not true.

The STG-44, or any other small arms for that matter, would not have won the war for them.

Infact, there is no way Germany could have period. One way or another they were doomed to lose the war.

yes. you are encouraged to contribute your own bizarre and unsubstantiated claims on the matter.

The odds were against them, but the Germans certainly could have won WW2.

Not to mention Italy due to the shit incompetence of the Italian army.

small arms only account for about 10% of casualties, artillery and tanks and aircraft are what matters

...

I read this internally with a posh bong accent, and it's great.

on /his/ it's daily

If they had the Stg.44 BEFORE 1944, things wouldve been different. As was, they had teams of men with bolt-actions protecting dudes with an MG. Those MP40s weren’t as common as you think either.

Moscow was 4 times larger than Stalingrad. The Soviets would have fought for every building with the same fervor. It took the Germans weeks to take Warsaw, even though it was obvious that Poland was doomed and the city was completely surrounded.

The Germans were are the end of their supply lines. They simply did not have the logistical capacity to supply enough men and tanks to encircle and storm the city.

German doctrine emphasized tactical and close-support bombers.

>He became too confident in his own abilities after his victory in the West.

if this is true, it's retarded, because the ONLY reason the blitzkrieg against France was so effective is that Rommel and others EXPLICITLY ignored orders from Hitler to halt their advance

No, they could not. Industrial capacity of the Allies alone meant that Germany would have eventually been crushed. Germany was never in a situation to win a war of such magnitude, and to envision one where it would means fundamentally redefining German leadership and doctrine to the point where its no longer the same germany.

95% of those tanks were shity early 1930s models.
Also according to veterans, 1/3 of them was operational, 1/3 needed repairs after 1 day of fighting and 1/3 was good only to cannibalize to repair others or send back to factory. Also many tanks existed on paper only, muh 100500 mechanized divisions, mechas coming in 1942 comrade)).

If the Germans defeated the Soviet Union, how exactly are the Allies going to launch D-Day against 4 times as many German soldiers as there were historically?

They could have not fucked up in Russia, spent more time getting ready and developing the first jet ever made, and for heavens sake use all the nerve gas.

you are triggering me on purpose, aren't you?

There is no way they could have defeated Russia. The country is too large, too populated, and just a bitch to even fight in, not just because of Winter, but even in the spring and fall with huge amounts of muddy terrain that makes it very difficult to travel through. None of Germany's little magic toys like the fighter Jet, sTG 44, giant useless tanks would ever change this at any point. And nerve gas? Chemical warfare, despite common belief, is a double edged sword at best, and most often a waste of fucking time. Surprised you even brought that shit up at all.

Karl Donitz, one of most level-headed leaders in the German military, admitted after the war that it was lost before it even began.

Order No. 227 issued on July 28, 1942
>The enemy throws new forces to the front without regard to heavy losses and penetrates deep into the Soviet Union, seizing new regions, destroying our cities and villages, and violating, plundering and killing the Soviet population.....
>......Some stupid people at the front calm themselves with talk that we can retreat further to the east, as we have a lot of territory, a lot of ground, a lot of population and that there will always be much bread for us. They want to justify the infamous behavior at the front. But such talk is falsehood, helpful only to our enemies.
>Each commander, Red Army soldier and political commissar should understand that our means are not limitless. The territory of the Soviet state is not a desert, but people - workers, peasants, intelligentsia, our fathers, mothers, wives, brothers, children. The territory of the USSR which the enemy has captured and aims to capture is bread and other products for the army, metal and fuel for industry, factories, plants supplying the army with arms and ammunition, railroads. After the loss of Ukraine, Belarus, Baltic republics, Donetzk, and other areas we have much less territory, much less people, bread, metal, plants and factories. We have lost more than 70 million people, more than 800 million pounds of bread annually and more than 10 million tons of metal annually. Now we do not have predominance over the Germans in human reserves, in reserves of bread. To retreat further - means to waste ourselves and to waste at the same time our Motherland.

TL;DR Soviets were kinda short on human and material reserves by mid 1942 actually

Had the Germans cut off the Caucasus, The Soviet's primary source of oil, they would have been in deep shit.

Also attempting to help Italy, which was more of a liability than an asset.
Biggest mistake on the German part was on numerous occasions, Hitler chose to remove his generals and take personal command, and each time, his strategy involved splitting his forces. The splitting of his army allowed the Allies to pick them off.

Because it it s Mp/Stg-44 not an AK-47.

No they are not the same thing.

They just look somewhat alike.

Germans did not invent the assault rifle.

Fedorov Avtomat and sawed off versions of the BAR already existed.

What about Iran?

>Doesn't understand WW2

>Wetback telling us about world war 2