Talk about living off the grid or semi off of it, where if there was an electrical shut down you'd still be okay. Spring/winter gardening, river generators, defense, food stock piles, greenhouses, etc.
NOT surviving off of rainwater and fucking forest berries.
I'm planning on moving north and getting out of southern Ontario once I'm done university depending on work so I've been slowly getting ideas on what to do.
Other urls found in this thread:
humanurehandbook.com
websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
midnitesolar.com
altestore.com
solar-electric.com
amazon.com
twitter.com
I'll gradually dump some stuff from the last thread.
For small operations/starting out.
Need some tips on how to grow food on my shoebox apartment balcony
Also need some tips on what sort of batteries to use for a solar setup
I'm trying to get some land but it's a process
put dirt in the shoebox, plant seeds, water.
Would this fit on your balcony?
This would be useful for deciding what to grow with what.
bump
1/10th of an acre is not going to produce many calories.
One of these days I want to grow hemp and try to make something out of hemp fibers. I want to learn how to make clothing from seed.
Very true, but it's hard to jump into farming. Gotta start somewhere if you've never farmed.
This is probably for applicable.
go wwoof.
It can produce enough to give you a good buffer when there's a shutdown/shortages/etc.
>This is probably for applicable.
Has anyone actually ever researched how large an area you need to support one cow, or one pig, or one chicken and bring that from a newborn to slaughter weight? THat illiustration is hugely misleading. THere is no way on one acre you can bring all that is pictured to fruition.
THat is, unless you have inputs. Inputs like feed grown off site. Inputs like compost made off site. Not to mention water supply. Many acre lots have not an aquifer on the surface nor below.
.jpegs are llullabyes.
Piney woods, Southland, zone 8.5, what should I grow, Sup Forums?
again, naive. inputs. nothing grows on .10 acre without nutritive inputs. those too will be disruptive. did the disruption happen in winter? how much food did you put up off that .10 acre?
integrate under the curve instead of looking at it.
what 'nutritive inputs' are you talking about?
You have sun and compost, you grow food in summer and store it for winter. You can trade what you have with others depending on what you've grown
>what is rainfall
>what is human shit and animal shit
>zone 8.5,
Almost anything. Look into keyhole gardening. Mulch is your friend. You will have water issues. Think about buying straw and covering your garden with a good 6-12 inches of it. It will keep moisture in the ground and prevent a majority from evaporating.
Bump
>not building talans and permaculture forests to live semi hunter gatherer lifestyles like the lothorien elves
A compost pile does not happen without inputs. It takes a huge amount of waste plant material, to work its way down to humus. You are not going to both completely cultivate 1/10th of an acre and use it to source your compost. You will be importing.
That pic isn't going to work very well over multiple days in a row. The tires will be warmed within a day or two and without some sort of heatpump for the mass around the intake vent it will also just heat up.
Roof insulation also keeps heat inside, not just outside.
Overall drafting air through your house won't cool it to less than the exterior air temperature.
Using the ground as a heatsink would work a lot better if you pumped fluid through underground pipes.
Realistically you are probably better off with a solar roof, or a solar system you can clean manually. You would get more power to run AC (heatpump) when you needed it more.
Evaporative cooling is also possible if you have plenty of water available, as your draft system could be used to make it more effective.
>>what is rainfall
>>what is human shit and animal shit
Do the math for how many gallons you can collect per 1 inch rainfall per square foot of roofing. Now, make sure that roofing is not asphalt or galvinised as the water will be less than suitable for irrigating consumables. Storing water above ground is extreeemly hard to do. That is why most farms exploit the aquifer below. That is why most farms are not had on even one acre. You need fallow and wood land in order to secure enough of an aquifer to support you, your family, livestock and horticulture.
...
okay. but it's not completely cultivated
Very true, I personally see these pics as guidelines.
There's something you should consider looking into if you're serious about this: Fertilizer production
With the Haber process and the Ostwald process you can produce ammonium nitrate from natural gas or just water and air, depending on what your power and resource situation is like.
If you have the proper type of composting/fermenting environment the original haber process is likely easier to implement. If not, an electrolysis-based approach involves no raw materials but water. This will produce ammonium hydroxide.
The ostwald process consumes ammonia to produce nitrogen oxides. When dissolved in water, these form nitric acid. When mixed, nitric acid and ammonium hydroxide react to form ammonium nitrate, the most common fertilizer in use today.
Using the correct balance of this fertilizer as a nitrogen fixing agent dramatically increases plant yield. All it requires is water, air, and either electricity or natural gas (eg methane, butane) in reasonable quantities.
i tell them that in everythread, they dont listen, theyre all just neets who think they can save a few grand for an acre in the middle of no where, throw some seeds in the ground and continue to live their neetlife after their parents kick them out. Dont waste your time trying to help them, theyre better off swallowing a bullet.
>not buying land in a forest region.
>>what is human shit and animal shit
Ok, animal waste, if you know the animal is in top health can go directly on crops. If you want to burn them. Most manures need to be composted. Especially chicken and horse.
When you see manure being spread on TV that is generally for pastures to grow grasses for livestock, not edible crops.
Humanure. Glad you brought it up. I practice. Takes two years of composting to do it right. Do not do the oriental Night Soil. I follow Jenkins method.
I just make compost and piss in it for added nitrogen. Is that good enough?
It's a good option but won't provide enough nitrogen fixing to feed you continuously on its own. You should also be adding your shit, but having a proper nitrogen fixing chemical process is key to supporting yourself sustainably unless you have a much larger area to feed yourself with.
For the compost people.
>natural forests produce enough food to feed a single person in less than 10 square miles (6400 acres)
so not only do you have to grow a permaculture forest on your 10 acres, you also want to have to clear a fucking forest before you even get started? fuck off
if you need any advice on off grid power, ask me. I have my own system and have hundreds and hundreds of hours of research in it. Not an expert but I know what works, what the costs are and what to avoid.
Don;t get me started. That illustration still underestimates the true extent of land required. Wheat? Hoooo boy. I take it yo have not looked into how hard wheat is to bring to maturity. Then, how do you process the seed to a point that you can grind it whole? How about a mill? HAve you priced the tools neccesary to take a stalk of wheat to flour?
>6 all done!
Nowhere in that howto does it give how long it takes. Redpill, if you are doing it right you add to a pile for a whole year. Then you start a new pile. Meanwhile the fallow pile sits a year.
That is two years before you get compost. Inputs. Inputs.
This guy understands.
You can't just buy some cheap land (usually cheap for a reason) and start a farm. I'm looking to move into the Canadian Shield, so I'm going to have to spend a couple years preparing the soil and compost. I'm going to attempt to build on ground greenhouses too.
How do you get about setting up a power source?
>You can't just buy some cheap land (usually cheap for a reason) and start a farm
Bravo! Most cheap land has little topsoil or overburden. You need to do a thorough soil analysis before you buy. That includes starting by looking at a remote sensing soil survey of the property to see what type of soil exists on the property and to what depth it exists.
starte here:
websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov
Then you need to do a physical analysis where you go to the property and dig a two dozen holes over the acreage down 8", take a cup from each stir them together, dry them, then send them to a lab for analysis on all the contents; ie nitrogen phosphorus boron magnesium, etc etc.
Have 30k for a 5kw system. Don't fall into the trap that sub $1 per watt panels are going to last
good posts dude. great read.
This, user. Mulch and lots of it is extremely important for the building up of your soul.
Oh totally agree with you.
The idea is to get people looking into this, not to blindly follow it.
Can you elaborate? I haven't started to look into power supplies yet.
You do realize the OP pic requires a dozer or a track loader to move that much dirt?! That’s like 200 cubic yards...
5 feet wide and 60 feet long. This in itself is no small feat....Keeping water conditions favorable for something this big.....IF the water was 3 feet deep, this is a 6700 gallon fish tank. IF it is overstocked, the fish will suffer and die. This is a balancing act larger then a tank full of fish and water.
I think i went a bit overboard on the white power, how can black rams even compete.
Tried the living in the woods life for a couple years. The results sucked.
>Only way to grocery shop was a Walmart 40 miles away with a shit selection.
>Nearest redneck neighbor shot my cat with a crossbow for leaving paw prints on his truck.
>Only dial-up internet
>No Fed-Ex or UPS delivery, have to pick everything up at the post office yourself 15 minutes away.
>No jobs, only work I could find was tarring roofs for half minimum wage.
>Everyone is ultra Christian
>Teenagers set my chicken coop on fire after people in the town started a rumor I was a devil worshipper because I never attended church
>All the women are obese and stupid
>Cow pastures and the smell of cow shit everywhere
Panels are going to cost you $3 per watt for the ones that will last maybe 20 years. Over size your inverter, as heat is the enemy of electronics and a parity sized inverter will fail sooner. Same with batteries. Don't skimp. Deep cell marine. In the end you are going to spend about 30k for a 5kw system. If yo can afford more, put the panels on a gimble.
Or a couple of days with a pickup truck, couple buddies, and some beers. Or just pay someone to drop it off. Gotta get used to hard work my man.
>Pic should be taken as a guide to start looking into
ye senpai whites should be Independence and check out of society . society is controlled by (((them))) so whites should take white civilization off the grid .
I've heard dirty potatoes can keep you going for awhile.
Earthships are huge memes.
Cultivating the fibers isnt easy....Ive looked into agricultural hemp quite a bit. Soon....soon it will be back.
Chickens are prey. They also can pick up disease from song birds. You need a coop of sorts to keep the coyote at bay at night, but you need a chicken tractor for the day to keep the hawks from snacking and the hens free of disease.
I'm personally thinking of trying to build something like this but MUCH smaller scale. Idk what kind of fish but I'd probably just test to see what goes.
This has nothing to do with white people you ignorant slut, it's a lifestyle.
Careful of growing on balconies. That is a design for growing 100lbs of potatoes. The box, the earth and the water to grow them are going to be many times more. Be sure your balcony can support a ton of weight.
I'm going to build this fucking immediately.
I hate ultra Christians, I don't mind Catholics as I'm one, but fuck anyone who's a hypocritical zealot.
Hey every one look, it Armory Lovins.
Just watch out for this:
Panels are economical in comparison to other sources and the most turn key of power solution.
Solid state and with well known properties, documentation and MANY options. expect to pay a dollar a watt for 12 volt panels, which can be pretty cheap. The solar tariff will increase costs but ignore retards like they don't cost that much outside of china. Hell even American made panels are cheaper than that. I bought Canadian panels for 65 cents a watt shipped. Having the money up front does make things easier.
24 volts is what I recommend. 12 volts used to be common because most fo the equipment is so common but these days I would pass on that. Most serious solar equipment and appliances are dual voltage anyways. A lot of people go 12 volts and find out a lot of the 12 volt road appliances are garbage. I have a 12 volt system and i regret it. 50-60 amps is the practical limit of charging. Some charge controllers go higher but you need a higher voltage battery bank because of voltage drop. Those connections can get hot at 120 amps, let me tell you. My cables are thick but every connection needs to be perfect and tight and the lugs only have so much surface area. Just go 24. Also as many dc appliances as possible, especially refrigeration. It will cost more but DC refrigeration is 20-40% more efficient, especially after you factor in inverter losses. Don't waste your money on modified sine wave. If you can afford it, go top end. Eventually you will want to anyways. You can get a good Schneider 24 volt 2500 watt inverter on sale for around 1k. Its a charger and inverter built into one. It needs a controller for the charge function but its great. Can do double for 10 seconds or so. Its a transformer based inverter so it draws more power but its better at starting motors. Go mppt. Strings make for higher efficiency, less parallels which save in wire and gang boxes.
midnitesolar.com
This is your best friend.
>expect to pay a dollar a watt for 12 volt panels
expect that price point panel to be only converting a fraction of its initial efficiency in less than 10 years. also, that cheap panel will convert less sunlight into electrons per square foot than a more expensive panel. I could hurl ad hominems, but I won't.
Remember, it is the stingy man that pays the most in the end.
I have a huuuuuge backyard. Lol. I'm just a fan of efficiently utilizing space. Looks like there are tons of versions of this particular design, can even use chicken wire instead of wood.
Who else has a garden.
I have no problem with Christians, those people were just stupid, so they do everything stupid including religion.
altestore.com
A great controller, dont get the light version, dip switches are gay.
solar-electric.com
A beast, you can add a second for a combined 6800 watts, which it can surge for 10 seconds at double. Thats more than enough as long as you avoid electric heat (which you should).
As for batteries, look up a company called sbs industries. They sell awesome traction fork truck cells. Lots of cycle life and the cost comes out to pretty close to golf cart batteries.
3250 cycles at 50% DoD. Run them light, like 20% DoD (80% left) and they should last 20 years.
Other options exist out of solar but its a whole new ball game.
Avoid wind unless you are guaranteed wind all the time. its finicky and getting it to play nice with a battery is expensive. They can only bulk charge unless you spend hot cash on a midnite classic with a clipper (speed control). The cost versus return doesn't seem worth it. Buy more solar for the same and get back more.
Hydro is king. You can do hydro real cheap and get an immediate and noticeable return on investment. 24/7 power is not be scoffed at.
Charcoal gasification is a good long term back up for engine power.
Planning ahead, working farmsteads and improving the area around yourself? That’s pretty white.
the tires are "rammed earth" ....packed with dirt.
NIce! Take heed LARPers, there is electric fence in that pic. Critters love all phases of cultivation. Your choices are 24/7 patrols with a .22, traps or electric fence. Choose none and you starve.
ultra Christians nicee sign me up I call my self a christian extremist
y'all gonna starve come the great happening. Get out and start planting this spring, no excuses.
I've yet to see a panel outside of those flexible ones that didn't have the standard 25 year life span. Keep in mind that at 25 years its not broken its producing 80% of the power. All solar panels have this lifespan. The internals break down the same rate whether its made by Chinese or Americans. A "fraction" of what its was in 10 years would still be above 90%. So a 100 watt panel would be putting out over 90 watts still in 10 years. Solar panels never really fail in a persons lifetime. The original panel made back in the sixties (almost electrocuted a president) is still producing some power. When it hits a point where you are not satisfied, you down cycle it. Build a new array and enjoy the extra power you get from your old array. So your 10kw array puts out 8kw in 25 years, buy a 5k array in 20 years.
Please contribute to 8---ch.net/offgrid, thank you.
My company did the doors & hdwe (Div 08) for Urban Organics. Its a joint venture with Pentair. Its a industrial aquaponics set up in an old brewery in St. Paul. Its pretty cool.
I run a Honda genny to make this electricty to post this.
Ate moose last night.And my own Potatoes
Just loaded some Birch inna stove.
Had to plow snow today so I can get some water hauled in tomorrow.
>Keep in mind that at 25 years its not broken its producing 80% of the power.
Debatable. The underlying cell itself in a lab will still convert approx 80% of what it can recieve. However, the coating will be so scratched that it is actually reflecting over 50% of the sunlight that is reaching the panel. Net result is that by year 20-25 most panels will output barely 20% of what they did on day one.
the best podcast to learn about homesteading is THE SURVIVAL PODCAST with jack spirko. He's got about 2000 episodes on itunes, with interviews about everything you could imagine.
^ yeahp.
>>Teenagers set my chicken coop on fire after people in the town started a rumor I was a devil worshipper because I never attended church
lol
it's too hard.
unless you're a nobleman with slaves or are already retired with power equipment & in prime health with a robust extended family that don't have normal jobs, this shit is too time-consuming.
This. If you can grow and can vegetables, take meat from hunting on public land and buy necessities like flour and sugar and milk, you can get by on a half acre. But to try and mill your own wheat is a moronic idea.
Swamp coolers are shit that far north, he would need a dual fuel system to even stand a chance or radiant flooring. Either way you're right that it's an absolute shit design but keep in mind most heat pumps are not designed to operate sub 7 degrees.
>Just loaded some Birch inna stove.
Assuming this is not a LARP, (gas generated electricity on a daily basis?) heat is something that few are addressing.
Rule of thumb, on a an acre of forest that has not been logged one bit for the past 80 years, you can sustainably harvest one cord of wood. 4'x4'x8'=128 cubic feet = 1 cord. The houses pictured so far are going to require 4 cords to heat per winter north of 40 degrees. That's 4 acres just to sustainably heat a residence.
THen there is the whole issue of how many of you have felled a tree in perfect health? Well, those are not the trees you cut for heat. Those you leave for to make little trees. Heat trees are often standing dead. They are always the ones that grow crooked, are leaning the wrong way, have rot, etc.... They don't call em widowmakers for nothing.
You do know there are Earthships in Canada right? If planned and built well, they do work. Of course there will be some variation in temperature.
>you can get by on a half acre
one individual. not a family. and that half acre will still require inputs such as compost and straw for mulch.
I can assure you that "Earthships" that use heating design don't exist as it doesn't fucking work. You're doing fuck all thermal exchange.
>no asphalt
>no galv
Gonna need some proofs on that, amigo.
amazon.com
I've read this. This guys does a great job laying out how to get by on an acre.
On a somewhat related note...I play Aussie Rules and thus know several Aussies. One of them was saying Crannberries just recently made their way to Australia. They love them down there. He was honestly entertaining starting a Crannberry farm up here to package and fly down to Australia. MN where I am is prime Crannberry growing territory.
where's the electrified barbed wire and where's the solar panel it's connected to?
You a thermal engineer?
>They don't call em widowmakers for nothing.
You should explain why before some autistic communist drops a tree on his neck
Actually here is a basic on how you cut into a tree. Start small, leave the big ones alone for now.
Asphalt will leach volatile compounds. Straight collection is not suggested except for ornamentals. If you filter, that is an exception. Filtering requires regular inputs. Not optimal.
Galv can be used in the west. Out east the acid rain will again leach toxic compounds out of the zinc coating, so not reccommend,
No, just an HVAC tech proficient in manuals J, D, and S.
soon, fuck university, no time for that
war is coming
Tip: weed is a useful plant to grow for hemp. And if shit hits the fan even if you're not a degenerate who smokes it you can barter the bud to others or purify it into a resin and save it for painkillers.