This is a thread for discussion of classical fascism (NOT NATIONAL SOCIALISM) Fascism is a revolutionary ideology of state control that overlaps every spectrum of society and life. Fascism is social. We support welfare, universal healthcare, and oppose free market at all costs. Fascism is national and patriotic. We see state carrying the flag of the nation throughout centuries, it's single most important and core value being state itself. We oppose capitalism, marxist socialism, communism and liberalism Who are welcome here >Classical fascists >National syndicalists >Nazbols Post your fascist recourses, music and propaganda here.
Make something of yourself. Don't demand it from others.
Ryan Jones
We demand social justice for OUR people. Sorry, kike,. >muh private banks >muh federal reserve system >muh private corporations
Anthony Perez
“Fascism has made grandiose Social Revolution, Mussolini and Lenin, Soviet and Fascist corporate state, Rome and Moscow. Several stands already taken had to be rectified, we have nothing of which to ask pardon for as both in present and past we are impelled by the same ideal: the triumph of work.” - Bombacci
kek hello schlomo, how was the latest (((Mises))) institute meeting like?
Jaxson Jenkins
National socialism is capitalism with certain elements of state involvement Fascism is (mostly) planned economy with respect to private property, nationalization of nearly all of industry and protectionasm Fascism is not exclusively nordicist, it can support a wide array of racial/nationalistic policies Also, religion tends to (historically) play a larger role in fascist societies. .
Josiah Hill
protectionism *
Nolan Martinez
>national socialists not welcome >nazbols welcome >still believing that fascism lies in the left right dichotomy When will someone actually make a good fascist general?
Henry Young
it kills more people yay
Cooper Martin
So would the only difference between fascism and communism be National v. International? Just trying to learn not shilling.
Juan Wood
It does though. Unless you disregard Mussolini entirely, shill Fascism is third position ONLY in relation to classical marxism and capitalism
Ian Price
Fascism is not left wing, don't try to use terms if you don't know their origins. A socialist arguing for a social safety net for his own people is not the same animal as one who believes in universal egalitarianism and wants to destroy all social classes. Fascism accepts that difference between men are innate. It holds that hierarchy is natural, and trying to destroy hierarchy for the sake of political means is inherently wrong.
Ideologies can borrow elements from anywhere they like without compromising their underlying philosophy.
Luke Smith
How so?
Angel Baker
Communism - workers control means of production Fascism - state controls means of production, workers unions and employer unions.
Sebastian Campbell
But it is. What you describe is merely a branch of left wing, and might be also applied to certain right wing ideologies.
Camden Adams
>Fascism is (mostly) planned economy with respect to private property, nationalization of nearly all of industry and protectionasm You just explained national socialism.
Cooper Brooks
Did the workers really control shit under communism? I thought that was all just a ploy to trick the useful idiots into the revolution.
Alexander James
is national socialism and fascism always integral nationalist? what kind of nationalism is non expansive?
Logan Rivera
You must not know history very well, then. In third reich, free enterprise existed all throughout its existence, with trade unions illegal (outside of bogus organization that simply served as an excuse for earlier NS policies). All large corporations, and families that ran them got a free hand as long as they supported the regime.
Colton Myers
No. The dichotomy of left vs right comes from the French revolution. Quite simply it can be explained as anarchy vs hierarchy. Anarchy is the root from which Liberalism springs, and all of mainstream US politics is born from this. Fascism stems from hierarchy, it is in the same vein as Monarchy in this regard. It is inherently right wing.
A right wing ideology that borrows from the left in a very limited way is still right wing.
Easton Gray
In Soviet Union? No. For many historical and geopolitical reasons, Leninism, and especially Stalinism were indeed state socialist ideologies, which they views as "temporary" on the way to "true communism" No, not always. Despite the popular meme, Italy had racial laws directed towards african colonies way before any alliances with Germany, or german influence on italian politics.
Sebastian Ward
no. left wing is concerned with equality. right wing embraces hierarchy. in fascism it's absolute, dictated through military prowess, in capitalism it's meritocratic.
Jason Cruz
It existed in fascist Italy as well, your point? Do you know what you're talking about?
Owen Morales
I think OP might be a /leftypol/ troll
Aaron Sullivan
>Very limited way If social welfare, state paid maternity leave, fascist trade unions, extended workers rights, free healthcare and education are "slightly left wing", then i don't know. Seriously, read up on the subject before posting.
Charles Young
Ok, would you say that all NatSoc's are fascist, but not all fascists are NatSoc?
Justin Turner
But it didn't. Congress of verona, which was basically a culmination of Mussolini's ideology, was as far left as it gets. I bet you never even heard of it.
Ryder Perry
I think you might be lost
>>>/ptg/
Ryder Walker
I have had thoughts that leftypol is trying to split a rift between fascist and natsoc camps.
Henry Morris
>would you say that all NatSoc's are fascist, None of them are
Kayden Morgan
This is simply untrue, private property DID exist in fascist italy, fascism is the third position, it's not far left.
James Wright
Yes, that is a very limited application of left wing ideology. Those policies are a social safety net, and there were regulations in place that limited how they were applied. There was not a universal welfare, there was private property, people had a right to earn a profit. A state that collects tax dollars from privately owned businesses is self evidently not extremely left leaning. A state that reinforces and venerates the differences that make their people unique is not left wing at all. Fascism celebrates and adores unique cultural identity that distinguishes classes and groups of people. This is antithetical to egalitarianism.
You simply don't know what you're saying, and I don't think you've ever read a single piece of Fascist literature. I think you're a shitposter from /leftypol/ posting disinfo to divide and conquer.
The more this fag posts the more sure I am that he is doing exactly this.
Jason Torres
It existed for VERY small businesses towards late 30's (I think under 300 people?) It was second in the world in terms of nationalization of economy, (Only to USSR, obviously). Mussolini OPENLY allied with many far left individuals, and NEVER abandoned his syndicalist and socialist roots, which HISTORICALLY gave birth to fascism You got to stop shilling, kike
Jayden Miller
What is Fascism?
Justin Gutierrez
>I think under 300 people? Citation please.
Ryan Brown
Lol. Please google "origins of fascism", and just do some basics readings, to learn where the ideas and movement come from. Then you can return, and hopefully stop shitposting.
Isaiah Jones
What is National Socialism?
Julian Ortiz
Try again, /leftypol/. You've outted yourself and you won't fool anyone now.
Nathaniel Russell
I couldn't find a source on that specific number, however "With the removal of the monarchy, Mussolini claimed the full ideology of Fascism could be pursued and ordered the nationalization of all companies with over 100 employees" (Mussolini: A Biography by Smith) Out of the mouth of the devil as we speak
Levi Moore
Just like ptg faggots such as yourself won't fool anyone by switching on fascist flag and trying to subvert a movement. >Literally refusing to acknowledge historical background of the subject This is a definition of shilling
Jeremiah Williams
shut up you fucking kike
Joshua Russell
I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything. You're poisoning the well by adhering fallacious definitions to terms in order to push a clear agenda.
Fascism is not left wing. Reinforcing hierarchy is hard line right wing. Private ownership is right wing. A social safety net is soft left wing.
If Fascism was inherently left leaning then the state would own all property and it would be egalitarian. Its not. You're a kike tranny from /leftypol/.
Sebastian Baker
It's funny how quiet libertarian shills got once presented with actual fascts >Mussolini wwwas leftypol too! SOCIAL AND NATIONAL, not MUH FREEDOMS and MUH BANKS
Elijah Jackson
I think you don't understand what left wing means. You need to read up on the basics. >literally thinks that "left wing" - egalitarian LGBT STATE OWNS EVERYTHING REEEE MAO XDD How's t_d been lately?
Luke Hughes
Again, troll, Fascism borrows from the left, just as NatSoc does. No one disputes this at all. Whats being disputed is your intentionally disingenuous framing as Fascism being left wing.
This is simply categorically wrong.
I gave you the text book definition and history of where the left vs right paradigm comes from. You're lying through your teeth at this point, tranny shill.
Jeremiah James
>fascism >literally named after a bundle of sticks bound together, strength in unity >hierarchical lol
Mason Sanders
Fascism is definitely top down user.
Michael Lewis
>Intentionally It is left wing by definition Why do you think Mussolini praised Lenin and had communists as closest allies all the way until the end? Or did leftypol rewrite history overnight? Let's see "Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality" Since i am guessing you got it from wikipedia Mussolini's opinion "Tomorrow, Fascists and communists, both persecuted by the police, may arrive at an agreement, sinking their differences until the time comes to share the spoils. I realise that though there are no political affinities between us, there are plenty of intellectual affinities. Like them, we believe in the necessity for a centralised and unitary state, imposing an iron discipline on everyone, but with the difference that they reach this conclusion through the idea of class, we through the idea of the nation." 1921 Also Fascism establishes the real equality of individuals before the nation… the object of the regime in the economic field is to ensure higher social justice for the whole of the Italian people… What does social justice mean? It means work guaranteed, fair wages, decent homes, it means the possibility of continuous evolution and improvement. Nor is this enough. It means that the workers must enter more and more intimately into the productive process and share its necessary discipline… As the past century was the century of capitalist power, the twentieth century is the century of power and glory of labour. Four Speeches on the Corporate State, Rome, (1935)
And many more. Now, go away, shill
Chase Roberts
Some still ask of us: what do you want? We answer with three words that summon up our entire program. Here they are…Italy, Republic, Socialization. . .Socialization is no other than the implantation of Italian Socialism… As quoted in Revolutionary Fascism, Erik Norling, Lisbon, Finis Mundi Press (2011) pp.119-120. Speech given by Mussolini to a group of Milanese Fascist veterans on October 14, 1944.
Nicholas Lewis
When the war is over, in the world's social revolution that will be followed by a more equitable distribution of the earth's riches, due account must be kept of the sacrifices and of the discipline maintained by the Italian workers. The Fascist revolution will make another decisive step to shorten social distances. Mussolini’s speech in Rome, Italy, February 23, 1941. Published in the New York Times, February 24, 1941.
Julian Turner
Who is stronger together, user? Is the Fascist saying this about his own people? Is Fascism protecting itself from subversive and overt attacks from Bolshevik outsiders? Or is Fascism saying that all people are equal in some classless utopian vision? It is the people of a single country asserting themselves, protecting themselves from an outside thread. It is reinforcing and protecting national identity from a force attempting to destroy all national identities in the name of egalitarianism.
It is hierarchy. You're an ass.
Keep on shitposting, kike tranny. It isn't egalitarian it isn't left wing. Its as simple as that.
Fascists and NatSoc both heavily recruited from the left because they were healing social divides and unifying their people. They adopted some left wing political policies, but their core philosophy and ideology are right wing. There is no escaping this. You're simply a lying kike.
Kayden Bell
I shall defend this pact with all my strength, and if Fascism does not follow me in collaboration with the Socialists, at least no one can force me to follow Fascism. As quoted in Italy: A Modern History, Denis Mack Smith
Grayson Watson
You just got BTFO. It's okay, relax. You will be hanged right next to the trannies you are implying, capitalist cuck
Kayden Lewis
The socialist revolution was a pure and simple question of ‘force.’… Between the [bourgeoisie and the proletariat] no accord is possible. One must disappear. The weaker will be ‘eliminated.’ The class struggle is therefore a question of ‘force.’ As quoted in The Ideology of Fascism: The Rationale of Totalitarianism
>literally advocated destruction of bourgeoisie
Dominic Young
Today we can affirm that the capitalistic method of production is out of date. So is the doctrine of laissez-faire, the theoretical basis of capitalism… To-day we are taking a new and decisive step in the path of revolution. A revolution, in order to be great, must be a social revolution. Speech on November 14, 1933 as quoted in Under the Axe of Fascism, Gaetano Salvemini, London, UK, Victor Gollancz Ltd. (1936)
Camden Campbell
>if I keep repeating the same fallacy over and over it becomes true!
You're a riot, user. Fascism isn't left wing, but you sure as hell are. True to your /leftypol/ roots. No matter how hard you try to shill it, the people of a country using tax revenue to support their needy doesn't make them hardline left wing. One set of social policies does not define an entire philosophy and worldview.
Yes, other than a fact that on practice, on word and on paper it was. If you want to fight socialism, go join your local Ayn Rand club
Cooper Ross
"We want an extraordinary heavy taxation, with a progressive character, on capital, that will represent an authentic partial expropriation of all wealth; seizures of all assets of religious congregations and suppression of all the ecclesiastic Episcopal revenues, in what constitutes an enormous deficit of the nation and a privilege for a minority; revisions of all contracts made by the war ministers and seizure of 85% of all war profits."From Mussolini's Fasci Italiani di Combattimento (Italian Combat Fasci)
Julian Lewis
>muh ayn rand You're exposing yourself more and more as a /leftypol/ Communist when you keep regurgitating their talking points, tranny shill.
Carson Sanders
>fascism is left wing
No, it's third positionist, you should know this.
Angel White
I want you to respond all the quotes from Mussolini's writings and speeches i posted above, one by one, and show to me how he does not advocate wealth redistribution and socialist economics. Until then, you are a proven kike shill
Angel Carter
Same to you, kike >Muh third position Only in relation to classical MARXSIM and liberalism, you fucking retard.
Hudson Rogers
Are you genuinely retarded? Again, look at where the terms left and right actually come from during the French revolution.
Your entire argument is >Fascist Italy supported some socialist policies therefore they're left wing This is fallacious. You know its fallacious. You know that you're arguing in bad faith like a kike. The philosophy of Fascism is hardline right wing. It is so hardline right wing that the only thing further to the right is absolutely Monarchy which states that Kings literally own their subjects. You cannot divorce the hierarchical nature of Fascism from its *nationalistic* social policies.
Stop being such a lying kike, or just admit you're a troll.
Gavin King
My argument is Mussolini was a self proclaimed socialist, followed socialist principles and advocated them "hierarchical nature of Fascism" That literally contradicts all the factual information posted above You have provided 0 evidence to any of your claims Begone, Schlomo. Or keep embarassing yourself, shouting muh leftypol >muh shareblue >muh dc shills
Christian Mitchell
>we support welfare >we oppose free market at all costs
You're fucking retarded. Welfare is the main reason of the west's downfall.
Semi-free market is the best way to encourage healthy competition in your country. The market should be as free as possible, as long as the business isn't harmful for the country (such as porn companies, unhealthy food) and the most successful companies should be nationalized.
At this point you're not a fascist, you're just a totalitarian socialist.
Aiden Lopez
Also, you ignored my question, kike. I am done replying to the obvious jew unless you do as i asked, rightfully.
Tyler Hughes
Back then socialists were NOT faggots and nigger lovers. Now, supporting socialism/communism means supporting globalism, so, you can go fuck yourself dear /leftypol/
>Remember: traitors first
Adrian Hall
hmm this makes sense, but what about those stylish haircuts and the aesthetics? seems pretty cool and left-wing to me. i could never imagine trumptards having anything close to the flamboyance of fascists, so where do they fall on the spectrum?
Evan Ross
I think i specifically mentioned that nazi LARPing retards are not welcome. And stop claiming our ideology. Thank you.
Dylan Brooks
Where did i claim that modern fascism should support modern (((socialists) )) or ally with them?
Daniel Myers
Ah, so you just are a genuine retard. I pity you. Hierarchy is the opposite of anarchy. Anarchy, dissolution of structured authority, individual liberty, these are core left wing ideals. Order, institutionalized rigid social structure, stratification of classes, duty to the group, these are right wing ideals.
Fascism is right wing that borrows some left sing social policies, particularly in the creation of a social safety net. It is nationalistic, not universalist, not egalitarian. Maybe you're just autistic and too much of a sperg to admit you're wrong.
The sense of aesthetic you see represented in Fascism, the veneration of military power, nationalistic pride, thats a right wing this. Even if you look at the big 5 personality traits you'll see that this holds true in every society. Militaristic people are right wing.
Samuel Jenkins
I'm not larping as a fucking nazi you retard, I posted a Hitler pic because the industry was largely privatized in Nazi Germany and the central bank was ran like a private company, which contributed to the economic miracle.
>stop claiming our ideology
Stop claiming fascism you disgusting leftist, I bet you're a niglet raised by a mudshark single mother living on welfare.
Ryan Hughes
>universalist, not egalitarian. Never claimed it was >nationalism is right wing! You are literally contradicting yourself, shill. First you claim left-right origin in french revolution. Then you claim this. Are you seriously retarded?
Chase Ramirez
Mussolini is turning in his grave as you speak.
Alexander Morgan
you are claiming fascism is left-wing in the OP. the connection with modern left-wing is pretty obvious unless you make a long and complex premise. I think you are in bad faith and a troll
Ryder Hughes
>goys fascism is left-wing I swear! how will we feed all the junkies and single mothers if we don't have welfare?
David Johnson
Well, fascist Italy did feed the mothers and gave them paid for maternity leave, and did provide junkies with state work. umad, kike?
Xavier James
>all left wing is modern left wing >Left wing of the past is not left wing You are literally braindead
Landon Powell
Poor little sperg, you're so literal that you can't comprehend anything other than in simplistic terms.
The paradigm of left wing vs right wing emerged during the French revolution. The terms referred to where people sat in a room divided along political lines, either the left side of the room, or the right side. This lens can be applied to anything, even systems and ideology that existed before the term was coined. Imagine that! Yes, because of the qualities of nationalism, it falls under the scope of being right wing. Thats how that works.
It really is cute how woefully autistic you are. I'm sorry I called you a tranny. You're just a lil sperg.
Anthony Gomez
>Being in such rejection of fascism being economically left wing despite factual proof >Bbbut nationalism is righhtt wing! Who cares that the argument is about economics, right? Keep posting, its entertaining to watch the stupid.
Lucas Ward
SMASH
Hunter Turner
Since OP posts & shits out info faster than any normal human could possibly respond to ill try and compartmentalize it. >mussolini quotes Mussolini is a strange character, there are a lot of quotes that can be taken out of context since he was a former leftist. Please watch youtube.com/watch?v=FsAIuAMjzsc for an actual answer to fascist italy's economic policies, not taken out of context quotes.
>Privatization & nationalization Claiming that fascism had little to no private industry is disingenuous, Italian fascists concept of "nationalization" was heavy regulation the concept was very different from "seizing the means of production". They were still technically private, but made sure to serve the state instead of themselves, also explained in the video above.
Here's a quote about private property in Fascist italy.
"While nearly everywhere else private property was bearing the major burdens and suffering from the hardest blows of the depression, in Italy, thanks to the actions of this Fascist government, private property not only has been saved, but has also been strengthened" from. Carl T. Schmidt The corporate state in action; Italy under fascism
also another quote.
"Fascism does support private property rights and the existence of a market economy." from The Birth of Fascist Ideology From Cultural Rebellion to Political Revolution
Jose Perry
THE
Dominic Perez
FASCIST
Owen Torres
PIGS
Lucas Stewart
Holy shit, OP, are you Lazia? Are you that Bulgarian autist?
Nice propaganda pieces m8. I think actual fascists had a slightly different opinion, as shown. I mean you REALLY hate leftists, i get it. Why are you a fascist, then?
Isaac Russell
Give OP a break, hes literally a male anorexic with autism.
Owen Ross
Damn, ptg shills are really trying this fine morning!
Tyler Sanders
>Because hes a jew this statement is false. Lol what was wrong in that statement.
Adam Rodriguez
Awww. Don't take it so personally, Laz. I know that your disability makes it so you miss a lot of nuances in communication. I don't fault you for it.
