Why is this a fact?

Why not before or thereafter? Also, why is it relevant when human life begins? We allow turning off medical machines that sustain the life of people without brain activity, which results in the death of that person. Why is that ok, but abortion after conception is not, even though at conception there is no brain?

Other urls found in this thread:

m.ncregister.com/blog/trasancos/pro-lifers-there-is-no-flash-of-light-at-conception#.Wn2hy4ExnqA
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

I'll bite.

The genetic makeup of the zygote (formed just after the sperm and egg fuse) has the same genetic makeup as the resulting baby from it.

To remove human status from a foetus would require remove the human status from everyone currently alive, as our human nature is at its roots defined by our largest claim to life, "being made by the animal cell."

In other words, by definition the genetics of the zygote/foetus vs the adult human is the same, and to justify killing one because "they're not human," would require a lot of mental gymnastics and playing God.

This.
A lot of conservatives get flack for wanting to stop abortions but simultaneously not providing free benefits to single mothers but they usually value life itself rather than a luxurious life. inb4 cheaper housing and free food is nat enuf

It's not a fact. It's an opinion.
The whole ''hurr durr life starts when the sperm touches the egg'' narrative is just controlled opposition trying to make ''''''''''''''''pro-life''''''''''''''' people look retarded.
It's not about pro-life and pro-choice, it's about late term abortion. Leftists are ok with late term abortions where they crush a fully developed baby and sell it for parts. Normal people aren't ok with that.
Abortion itself is fine as long as it's performed as soon as possible, which is at the first sign of pregnancy.

Whether the fetus is alive isn't important (obviously it is)

The question is whether or at what point in time, the fetus is an agent that has natural rights under our constitution.

Why should I pay for their fuckup? Single mothers are by far the worst people in existence - they breed more niggers of all colors.

The question is why your (((government))) funds clinics where they kill fully grown babies and then sell the baby parts for loads of money?
Trying to play some semantics game going on about what is life and what isn't life, and some abstract nonsensical concept of whether or not zygote has constitutional rights is just a distraction from the reality.

The real issue is and always has been that the (((left))) is using female bodies to grow millions of babies who are killed and sold for parts, it's a trillion dollar industry.
Whether or not Stacy gets an abortion 1 week after having sex where the condom broke isn't an issue.

Well the supreme court said it's the woman's right to abort the baby... So the semantic game is the one you have to play if you want to change the system.

The semantics game is a game only the semites can win.
You can only win when you engage in reality and call things what they actually are.
The moment you accept these vague disconnected abstract terms that don't actually apply to reality when you examine them, you've already lost.

“There is no brain” how does a sperm know to get to the egg? I believe everything that has a life cycle is alive. Plants. You need some kind of brain to reach out for sun light. And to breathe. Trees fucking breathe. Flowers fucking breethe. Their blood is water. They eat minerals from the soil. Plants have a conscious. Theyre self aware. Sperm has a conscious. Its self aware. If a fetus isnt a human youre not a human. Its a little tine baby. With a little tiny brain. Its gone on a journy and is becoming a new thing and you just pull it to fucking pieces or poison it. Youre a fucking demon. Im serious. I believe in a certain afterlife that abortion would prevent. I dont believe humans die. DNA lasts millions of years. They find it in bones all the time. I believe when you die you return to an atom. But youre a new atom. Youre a strand of DNA. and a father you must find. Aborting your baby is literally aborting yourself. If you dont have kids your DNA will die out and youll remain in a purgatory like state. Just a strand of DNA with no one to rebirth him. Because he didnt have kids. I dont believe life ever dies. You should send DNA into outerspace and see if it dies. Because this is all you really are.
Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions for the development and function of living things. All known cellular life and some viruses contain DNA. The main role of DNA in the cell is the long-term
Hmmm. storage of information. Sounds like its got a brain to me.
“DNA would last about 6.8 million years, after which all the bonds would be broken.”

Sperm just have a very basic set of movements that are triggered by chemical stimulus to guide them to their destination, of course this usually fails.

You could also suggest that a brain is just a more complex series of chemical responses though.

I don't see it that way.

I see that you're aiming to use an appeal to emotion/motherly/fatherly instinc, and you can't do that using legal terms. ... And you're right, the proponents of abortion chose that language for that reason.

On the other hand, there are social benefits to having abortions, and we still need to decide at what point we want to protect the baby that would be best for society.
I think there's both an emotional/moral and practical component to be considered.

So should a woman be punished when she miscarriages?

>To remove human status from a foetus would require remove the human status from everyone currently alive
And why is that? We remove human status for organ donors whose brain is smashed up. Under our laws, they are not humans any more, they are dead bodies. So obviously, pretty much every country in the world looks at brain activity, not at DNA to determine if a human body is alive and thus "human life".

>Whether the fetus is alive isn't important (obviously it is)
How is it "obviously" alive? Who defines what "life" is? Sure, if you say a bacteria is "obviously" life, fine. I tend to agree. But that is a subjective judgment, no "obvious" fact.

>The question is whether or at what point in time, the fetus is an agent that has natural rights under our constitution.

I would rephrase that and say who under the law of the land should have rights. Should a cell have the same rights in a court as a kid or an adult person? Does due process, imprisonment etc. attach to a cell at conception?

I don't know. Should we punish parents for children dying from natural causes of death? What kind of retarded question is this?

>But that is a subjective judgment, no "obvious" fact.

It's obvious. There's a bunch of cells and they are dividing and undergoing a reproduction cycle. Only life can do that. Everyone agrees that stuff with dna that reproduces is life.

Whether or not the fetus qualifies as a human life, modern medical abortion industry is reprehensible just like all the women who abuse it

we have the same aswell now basically...detrimental to the value of life but I'd rather see this country burn so all loss of whites right now is good.

>It's a fact
>No proof

And can you offer me proof of your existence? How can you, when neither modern science nor philosophy can explain what life is?

>I would rephrase that and say who under the law of the land should have rights. Should a cell have the same rights in a court as a kid or an adult person? Does due process, imprisonment etc. attach to a cell at conception?

Well, those are questions we should ask too.

I am not aiming to appeal to emotion, that's a side effect. I want to clarify the conversation and have it grounded in reality. The reason the conversation is so obscured is obviously because they know of these emotional reactions. If you're not addressing reality you're just running in place as the jew gets to do whatever the fuck he wants.
You need to speak directly to the people and force (((politicians))) to answer to what is actually happening. When you go ''ah, see, actually human life starts when the sperm reaches the egg, and if he is human then the constitution applies to it, and here it says that tl:dr'' the jew can cut you off at any point and just say ''no, that's not where life starts,'' ''no, constitution doesn't talk about fetuses.''
Try instead telling the (((politician))) that harvesting human organs is evil and it should be outlawed. Then you can watch the pathetic kike wiggle around trying to justify organ harvesting and explain to you why organ harvesting needs to be legal.

It is not relevant if I exist or you exist. If we simply state we all exist, the question then is, what is "life"? Is a stone alive? Most people say no. Is a fungus alive? Harder to explain. Is a virus "life"? What about plants? What about aminoacids?

What "life" is, is subject to definitions we subjectively make.

Now, what the rights of "human life" is, is also subject to our human definitions and touchy feelies. But what we can logically argue is whether a cell requires due process rights and whether a person without a brain is still a human life to be protected.

>Only life can do that.
Wud? Aminoacids can form (reproduce) all the time. There is lots of chemicals that can reproduce each other.

> playing god
Nah just estimating value and discarding unborn flesh that has only the potential for personhood.

>a corpse isn't human
>absence of neural activity as measured by imperfect instruments crafted by human hands and interpreted by marginally skilled practitioners whose education is 5-10 years out of date from the moment of licensure is the equivalent of absence of neural activity measured through multiple layers of fat, muscle and fluid without a hard connection to the zygote's dome

Congrats, Hans, you've convinced me nuGerman education is as fucked as Mutt Land education.

Stupid fucking kraut.

>The genetic makeup of the zygote (formed just after the sperm and egg fuse) has the same genetic makeup as the resulting baby from it.
And...

>our largest claim to life, "being made by the animal cell."
What?
It's not our ability to think or feel, but being 'made by an animal cell's? Wyd are you high on?

>the genetics of the zygote/foetus vs the adult human is the same
Yes, how does this justify
>to justify killing one because "they're not human," would require a lot of mental gymnastics and playing God.
I don't see how.
Why is a zygote more of a human than a little fragmet of skin I bite of the side of my fingernail?they both have a full genome, and they both die if spit out on the sidewalk.

Also the thing about this whole muh pro-life muh pro-choice shit is that people lack realistic strategic goals.
Republicans have argued about what constitutes a human for a very long time, and they've lost every single time. Every year the ''pro-choice'' people win more and more.

Strategically it would be beneficial to make organ harvesting illegal. I can guarantee that if you explicitly made organ harvesting illegal it would shut down Planned Parenthood. You could completely annihilate the ''pro-choice'' people without making a single ''pro-life'' argument. You could destroy them just going after the sick practice of harvesting baby body parts for money.

We pull the plug on people with no brain activity because their potential is gone. They can never again exist as a functional human being.

An infant, on the other hand, a fetus, a zygote, a fertilized egg, has immense potential, and an entire life ahead of it.

So, speaking in terms of pure, absolute logic, devoid or morality, pulling the plug on someone who is brain dead is ending a life that is without potential, having an abortion is ending a life with high potential.

>something that has no identity, no capacity to think has the same value and rights as me, an adult with a job and identity

Yeah, no.

No amount of mental gymnastics will convince me that a zygote is worth the same as me.

If conscience lingers in in a body it wont be able to use due to medical conditions its only merciful to dissolve the body further to safe more functional lifes so it can go god knows where.

Dude, there are cases where the brain is gone. The head is severed. Still a human? In such cases you still got a few minutes to get the organs out. Should that not be allowed?

It's always a fucking fedora tipping k*aut

You can't apply an arbitrary point to a human at any stage in it's life from embryo to baby or thereafter and say "this is the point at which this is a human being"

A sperm cell on it's own will never ever become a human, neither will an egg. but once they fuse together, THAT zygote will eventually become a baby, then an adult.

YES the zygote might be visibly indistinguishable from an elephant zygote or one of an orangutan. But it's still a human being, in the earliest form of it's life.

The issue of abortion is a moral one, and that's where things become sticky, and ultimately, we apply an arbitrary point in the life of this tiny human being where it becomes morally unacceptable to kill it.

I dislike the word "terminate" when referring to abortion, it's how leftists get around the fact that they are ending a life. Not to say I think abortion should be illegal, but people should tell it like it is.

Why does your flag make you look like you're from Africa?

>has immense potential, and an entire life ahead of it.
So the difference between this immense potential and 0 potential is the moment the sperm gets into the cell? So all the millions of sperm are irrelevant, but once they get into the egg cell, it is a wonder and the "potential" suddenly exists?

>how
Mitosis.

Well its not so much arbitrarily its as far as we can identifie with the degree of bodyshape and conciousness the foetus has reached.
Still its true that a its a decision that must always be tested hard if its truly necessary or else we might slip into more scetchy moral zones.

Ever heard of the triboluminescent zinc flash at the moment of conception?

>bodyshape

but this is exactly what I'm talking about, we look at this little embryo or whatever stage of life it's in and go "yeaaaaah that sort of kinda looks like a baby now, okay this is alive now, and before this point...it wasn't."

It's absurd

I've heard of this, there's an emission of a photon at the point of conception right?

For me, that's it, that's the beginning of life right there.

Because a zygote has the potential of being a living organism whereas a brain dead husk does not?

This shouldn’t be hard to grasp T*urkroach

No one ITT gives a shit about organ harvesting you hair splitting kike, I'm calling you out on your false equivalency bullshit. Brain death as measured by an EEG on an adult cannot possibly be compared to any similar metric on a fetus and any attempt to do so is patently retarded, intellectually dishonest, painfully ignorant, or some combination of the above.

I swear to God what the fuck is it with baby killers and their gymnastics, it's like you're looking for an excuse to murder children.

Human life is actually continual. Not that I'd expect people that see themselves as a separate being from the universe to understand.

No its not absurd at all.
The more similar something is the more we can emphatise. If its not similar then habituation can also do the job.
A baby that isnt alike to is yet and whose conciousness cant at least be compared to an animal is too alien to pity and be part of the "ingroup" of humanity you will morally obligated to.
Except ofc when religion changes that, which is also fine but not universal.

It's just a lower bound. It's not saying "now it is, and before it wasn't"

It's saying now you can't and before you could. The cutoffs you pick are going to be based on statistics, not the individual.

Iron Hands are all negroes, didn't you notice the paternal absence?

...

People should take sex more seriously.

>A baby that isnt alike to is yet and whose conciousness cant at least be compared to an animal is too alien to pity and be part of the "ingroup" of humanity you will morally obligated to.

I don't disagree, but what I'm saying is although you might regard an embryo the same way you might regard a tiny fish in the ocean, that thing IS alive nonetheless.

I'm not arguing that you should consider the newborn baby to be worth more morally than an embryo, just that both are alive.

>It's not our ability to think or feel, but being 'made by an animal cell's? Wyd are you high on?

What in the...

You know what life is right? You had biology in school, right? You are aware that even a lone cell, even a lowly bacteria, already counts as an individual life, right?

A cell is a living entity, a cell with a human genetic makeup is a human life. You can argue all day about it not counting as a person with right to live or whatever, but it's undeniably a human entity.

You are joining spiritually with another human. It's sacred and has been lowered by modern culture into a tawdry place of self-gratification.

m.ncregister.com/blog/trasancos/pro-lifers-there-is-no-flash-of-light-at-conception#.Wn2hy4ExnqA

Idk if the two Kraut shills are retarded doing it on purpose.
They ask a question yet have their minds made up and unwilling to give away a single point while finding the most cringe inducing arguments. Bitch please.
It's like they are trolling.

Of course that I agree on.
It was more about the justification of killing.

See here

Abortion is bad because not only is it murder, it removes a consequence of promiscuous behaviour and sex outside of marriage

So much this.

Read the article
It only glows because they used a technique that makes it glow so it can be detected.

It's a troll. Ignore the low IQ retards who think they're being some kind of subtle ''master trolls'' and just respond to good posts.

Meh. I've never had that kind of experience with a woman.

I'm a fan of the "three strikes" idea: Three abortions, and you get a tubal ligation for free.

" Scientists attribute the flash to a trigger release of calcium that occurs when the sperm enters the egg, and that deposit causes an expulsion of zinc"

MASTURBATION IS MURDER!!!!!!11

Take the lead user.

Yes then please keep reading.
They explain it very easy.

I disagree with turning off vegetables too.

>not only is it murder
if it is murder, I assume a failed abortion should lead to the death penalty for the pregnant mum?

You literally picked the top article off google because I saw it myself.

The Triboluminescence of Zinc Sulphides
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pssb.19690350161/pdf

Uh...small miscommunication there.
I'm saying I've never had that kind of experience as a result of sex.

If I hadn't been awake for 48 hours I would be more motivated to debate the subject. I will make a thread about it later tonight

Yes I did and am still utterly shameless about it as the article points out a misinterpretation and explains it quiet well if only it is read further then the very first sentences that decribe the misinterpretation
I needed as long to write these shitposts as I needed to read the article fully. Please we dont need to continue this.

No miscommunication.

You take the lead.

This is retarded. A woman shouldn't be forced to give birth to a rape child or a child that will be severely handicapped.

Where abortion is not ok is when sluts are using it as birth control because they're too stupid to use protection.

We'll see about that user, we will see.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. --Genesis 2:7
Life begins and ends with breath.
Atheists BTFO'd

Is fine.
When im tired I get rather sloppy too.

You can just do it like the poles and forbid it for anything short of rape.
(And severe retardation but thats just my opinion and I dont know if the poles allow aborting those.)

Oh good a failure of a legal scholar too.

>HURRRRRR attempted murder is the same as murder guise

Yes, kill the bitch. Same if a man beats a pregnant woman bad enough to miscarry.

People didn't think aliens invaded the planet during Las Vegas but it happened so, make of that what you will.

>I'm totally OK with rape allegations flying even further through the fucking roof

Good show.

>How can you, when neither modern science nor philosophy can explain what life is?
Life is a self-sustained chemical system capable of undergoing Darwinian evolution

Oh go away Bodhi.

We're all just one big chemical fuck-up. So technically, conception is where life begins because that, just like an adult, is a chemical fuck-up.

Well this is correct, but sentience does not.

Honestly, who fucking cares. One less race mixed abomination that won't be leaching off welfare for the next 50 years. It's not like PP is going into hospitals at night and snatching newborns to sacrifice.

Strawman.

How would like it if you were a woman walking home from work only to be raped by a rapefugee or african and then forced to give birth to the child?

>accuses of strawman
>same logical fallacy
Wouldn't like it much. Don't excuse murder.

That only is an issue in retarded countries like sweden.
Some prominent weatherman got accused of rape here and got his career destroyed, still got proven innocent and since then he is the modelcase that sensibilised people against lying cunts while proving that while the media is rotten the justice is not.
If your society is so shit that the justice wont handel the accusations then everything is relative anyway as cunts will probably get away with diy abortions.

State sanctioned murder is still murder.

Fetus don't breathe.

...Im the anti-abortion guy, where we going with this?

Agree to disagree then, i don't view it as murder.

Its fine if we do it the same as the life support and turn the mother off

>society is shit
Yep.
>muh weatherman
Who cares.
>Sweden
Lol no. Sweden is the testbed that all countries will become without resistance.
>diy abortions
Go for it. At least there'd be consequences for dealing in baby body parts.

The systems that develop new human life happen at conception. Before that, the gametes have no ability to develop life on their own; they are inert and not a new life being a half copy of the life that formed them. But once both gametes fuse, a new being is immediately formed and the inexorable process of that new life starts to unfold as the programming kicks off. Past, present, and future begins there. A new person will be born unless that person is actively destroyed. So yes, it is only scientifically accurate to say a new life begins at conception--not before nor after. Anything else is scientifically incorrect.

anti-abortion is a sin, thou art coveting what god begot in your neighbor's wife's vagina. first remove the log from your own ass, before you judge the acorn in her.

Is it ok to kill a kid, because its brain isn't fully developed yet? Honestly, don't you think that you sound kinda retarded?
.
The braindead had a life, it is over to some accident or whatever.
The human life begins at conception, because it is when the organism is created and it will develop into a more complex life form.

> its shit
Not everywhere
There are reasonable middleways for most things in life, but I refrain from using a certain starwars quote as that be cringy af.