Can all brit fags just agree that the NHS is terrible and NHS staff are just the worst people in existence.
>for their constant complaining about funding cuts.
>Yet saying how great the NHS is and how Jeremy Corbyn is going to save the world
Make your fucking mind up.
The NHS is the best basic structure for healthcare provision in the world.
Meanwhile politicians of all parties have fucked it up more and more since the 1980s.
It's not hypocritical to argue both that Kasparov was a good chess player, and that Kasparov's chess playing is being impeded by some tosser throwing pawns at him from the audience.
The healthcare system should be fully privatised. Why should we have to subsidise every brown cunt who was let in here when 90% of them are on benefits and the rest work minimum wage?
Besides, the free market makes every other sector more efficient but for some reason healthcare is an exception because of muh feelings.
No.
fuck off you tory twat
in before frog - I am a Brit abroad
the introduction of markets to healthcare in the UK has resulted in unspeakable waste compared to when it was just run as a public service
Yeah, no to fully privatise it would be a disaster, you've just been brainwashed by the right wing to believe it's impossible. It isn't
>the least cost effective healthcare system in the world is the US
However at this very moment it's shit
I work for the NHS and it is a bottomless pit to throw money into.
20 yrs ago there was not so much waste or management.
Social health is still the best way to do it...we just fucked it up.
Typical corbyn supporter lecturing us on our country despite not even being in the fucking country.
You're a coward, a traitor and a bit of a twat.
>wtf Americans why do you pay for your own health care?
>holy fuck the nhs is awful, how do we fix it?!
Yep.
That's a good argument and makes sense.
>However if you are one of those people who posts on social media about how amazing you are for working there, and frequently posts pro Jeremy corbyn memes on the social media you can leave this thread right now.
>The NHS is the best basic structure for healthcare provision in the world.
You cannot seriously mean this. It fails on every level.
The basic structure, by which I mean the nature of the system - state owned hospitals and "national insurance" being nothing but a veiled tax rather than having a direct link to your healthcare outcomes - is sound.
In terms of other structures (i.e. the existence of NHS trusts) we've managed to infect the system with cancer. Still, she holds her own.
Youre fucking retarded and dont know the NHS.
The "sacred cow" dogma piped by the public and encouraged by politicians has hurt the NHS in so many ways. It needs huge reform, 4% increase in budget year on year (in real terms) is not sustainable.
Most importantly it needs to be taken out of the politicians hands because they constantly use it as a political football.
Its fucking trash and I would never move back to the UK to deal with that disgusting poverty system
"But user you have to pay for yours"
I pay maybe $4k a year for my family and its amazing, I can see a surgeon literally the same day I make a call and it costs me $10.
Cost of living here is 50% what it was back in Englandistan and most Muricans where I live are based conservatives
>Makes the argument nothing is better than substandard treatment
>meanwhile homeless are dying in the streets in New York because they can't afford an ambulance
Yeah okay, you're not helping the stereotype that Americans are retarded and just repeat the same propaganda being fed to them daily.
>The basic structure, by which I mean the nature of the system - state owned hospitals and "national insurance" being nothing but a veiled tax rather than having a direct link to your healthcare outcomes - is sound.
This is what bongs actually believe
>meanwhile homeless are dying in the streets in
>its somehow my job to take care of bums
Your nanny state mentality is showing
What state you in though?
NHS staff are in fact pretty nice. Many years ago the NHS was like a family run business with staff working unpaid extra to get the job done, knowing that they were paid (with comfy pensions) better than average.
Corporates got involved and tuned hospitals into a business. Nursing staff get hired on the bank (essentially zero hours contracts but it actually costs NHS more than treating the staff well and promising a future), layer upon layer of pointless management and corporate bullshit from 9 to 5.
The staff are still somehow (mostly) pretty comfy and reassuring.
Not to mention the fact that it's not like they check your account before the ambulance comes. Hospitals can't refuse to give emergency treatment
>4% increase in budget year on year (in real terms) is not sustainable.
It would be absolutely sustainable if we got economic growth going again. 4% is by no means an unreasonable target. Whether that's the best use of resources or not is another question, but we could keep NHS spending as a % of GDP steady if we'd achieve that.
Politicians attempting "reform" is half the problem with the NHS as it stands today. Obviously reform is needed - mostly to undo prior reforms - but the idea we've left the system unreformed and outdated is madness. The Blair administration wasted about a third of all the extra money it threw at the NHS digging holes and filling them in with something like four different reform plans.
The problems with the NHS are 2 fold.
>Government legislation prevents redundancies, even if there's a point where staff are no longer needed. They will be redeployed or alternatively paid their full contract hours to do the little work they're needed for
>It has a complicated management structure, especially within hospitals, that requires a ridiculous amount of paperwork and reporting, eating up the time of everyone involved
Rectify these and the NHS will be fixed overnight. The money isn't the issue, it's how it's run.
NHS is evil Communism
Texas
When I first moved here I was in LA then SF which are almost as bad as the UK in terms of concentrated cuckholdry
>Your nanny state mentality is showing
You wanna risk getting stabbed by an un-medicated schizophrenic?
You want to see bodies on the streets rather than a safe and clean street?
I've heard Texas is the pinnacle of everything American. That includes some very backwards views, if you get shot in the street you gotta pay for treatment.
Move to
>New Hampshire
>Maine
>Hawaii
>Alaska
>West Virginia
All other states suck.
Texas is a cucked state, 40% non-hispanic white and falling.
The climate is hot and it isn't really that enjoyable life wise.
I wouldn't say it is the quintessential American state. They just make it look like they are MURICA type America. All show, no substance.
>You wanna risk getting stabbed by an un-medicated schizophrenic?
He'd have to walk through a wall of .45 rounds.
>bodies in the street
I'd happily start a body removal service company.
Nah, Corbyn looks like a nice guy but he is a commie and therefore unsuitable for leading a nation. Also he seems like a nice guy and therefore unsuitable for leading a nation.
This place is the closest I get to social media.
>Texas is a cucked state, 40% non-hispanic white and falling.
Do you see why that statement is retarded?
>40% non white
>still red as fuck
If anything it's proof we are the best state
% non white
You know what I meant
Ambulances in the USA are required to transport everyone for any reason to an appropriate emergency facility. You'll get a bill later but you can't refuse a patient for any reason. If they can't pay, they get a ride. If they are taking it, they get a ride.
Actually you can get medical care here without paying for it, and illegals do it all the time. They are a huge burden on our system. Bums generally just refuse care and resources. NYC and many other cities have top notch homeless resources in terms of shelters, charities, free clothes, free food, job programs, etc. They just don't want to get off drugs or are severely mentally ill and refuse treatment for their mental illness.
Nobody here in Bongistan has to go broke if they get sick. If you feel sick, you go see somebody about it. If your kid gets sick, you get him seen to with no face cost. If you don't want to wait, you can pay to see someone quicker.
Apart from the ludicrous waste and bureaucracy involved, is there anything about this system that doesn't seem fair?
I'm not talking about universal income for lazy fucks here, just good healthcare backed by a percentage of GDP.
Anyway, where I work the NHS gets the basics required for a civilized society done.
That's the spirit! Way to go to solve problems LIKE A FUCKING KANG.
>, is there anything about this system that doesn't seem fair
Uh, fucking yes. You have to pay for other people's health care. You are forced to be responsible for things that are others responsibilities. That's like the definition of unfair
>Way to go to solve problems LIKE A FUCKING KANG.
>defending yourself and starting small businesses are for niggers
The absolute state of bongs. Jesus christ. How embarrassing could you be?
We get a fair few freeloaders here too. We used to have the soppiest woman you could imagine go and ask foreign patients how they expected to pay for their treatment. As far as I know, nobody ever did pay but maybe out government asked their government nicely for the cash before we bombed their hometowns.
Do you pay for your kids healthcare? What about their education? What about your neighbours kids?
I'm not arguing for socialised everything. Fuck I admit that the NHS I work for is a waste of money. But some things are just ideally dealt with by numbers.
>But some things are just ideally dealt with by numbers.
That works with mostly white places. Otherwise it goes to hell. Like our public schools have become a steaming pole of shit because we are dragged down by the inner city schools
We might be embarrassing to you Uncle Buck, and I admire your society for a great many things. But sometimes societies of good people can work together and create great things together. Or, you can just be Africa.
I'm a Bong living in the US. Enjoy it mate, you don't wanna be paying the fucking cost of it here, and it's equally as shit when you're at the hospital.
In the end mate, if you don't like it, pay and go private now and stop expecting something for free, ay?!
>But sometimes societies of good people can work together and create great things together.
I'm totally down for that, but it just doesn't work well in our current ever darkening country.
You have to understand that domestic Europeans have a fundamentally different outlook on life than we do. American mentality is more about taming the frontier, living off of the land, and sustaining your own existence. Europeans prefer a more controlled, urban sort of life where a government rules over them with a firm hand and guides them through life. It's always been this way. It's why the Liberal faggots in this country, when pushing for bigger government, always refer to Europe as the example of how we should change our country.
Don't delude yourself, your whites are garbage student as well
there was a bbc documentary about it, african african woman flies to UK , pregnant, african doctor signs her off as ok to fly, gives birth a few days after arrival, massive complications through being niggers and she's over 40. NHS spend 100k, 200k, 300k looking after her kids and get her a conceirge london flat to stay during recovery.
She leaves, pays nothing
Yes I know. It just never ceases to amaze me whenever I rediscover that.
One of the big differences I've noticed is how Europeans and Americans approach work. Americans, traditionally at least, are fiercely proud of the work they do. Even if it's menial or manual labor. I spent a summer in a steel mill and those guys were some crazy fuckers but they loved that they were responsible for making steel that went all over the country. Europeans seem to go to work basically so they can take a month long vacation at some point. They don't seem to "own" it as much, they don't seem quite as dedicated. I laughed when I found out that our Norwegian colleagues will call in sick if they have a stressful week at work.
>t. Achmed
I hear ya. London and our bigger cities are plagued by (mostly) black crime. Islamification has hit my northern town hard.
But we have our own homegrown problems of chavs, pikeys and european tramps.
I've seen the result of it in the hospital I work at. And whilst I want to discourage heath tourism I gotta admit that I'm halfway OK with it.
No, I don't like the fact that my tax foots the bill, but I do believe that if you go somewhere in the world and encounter a medical problem you should not incur generations of debt. Enslave the fucking niglet as payment if you really feel it's necessary. That worked out for ((us)) last time right?
it's mismanaged to the extreme and is just siphoning off taxpayer money to contractors now
also migration, get rid of it
>commie
So don't use the NHS, cough up your own money and go private.
>You have to pay for other people's health care
That's how any insurance system works though.
You don't pay in the full cost of the treatment you get. The thing only remains financially solvent because some people pay in more than they take out.
Yes, but that's optional. And there are different plans / providers to choose from if I want. It's a choice
Well now we've moved away from "Why should I pay for other people?" to "It should be my choice!"
And of course, you do have the choice of not working and exclusively buying goods imported illegally to skirt VAT if you really object to funding the NHS so much.
On an NHS salary? Are you mad?
Honestly though, there is a sweet spot for socialism and it was the NHS, British Rail and BBC (when it was relevant).
This has changed however.
The NHS is now a collection of managers and pen-pushers (that's my job) who promote a service rather than providing one. BBC is now a left wing echo chamber that still hold respect despite its obvious lack of anything redeeming. British Rail is gone but apparently used to run some sort of train service different to the current bus-replacement and wait service.
I guess I can at least be thankful that we are not France. sigh.
how about stay in your own country, contribute to it , don't leave and if you do decide to travel 12,000 miles into another country you may be faced with medical bills at 8 months pregnant
>Why should I pay for other people?
Well this should have been
>why should the government force me to pay for other people
Which honesty should be
>why would we allow the government to force us to pay for other people
The "choice" is at the crux of the whole thing.
The government doesn't force you to do anything, unless you attempt to do another thing contingent on a service the government provides.
If you don't like it you can always leave provided you find some other metaphorical landlord to tolerate your tenancy.
>they don't use their coercive power unless you disobey
-_-
god i hope the NHS dies, the only thing i've needed from it is dental treatment which is all private now.
>but user you could get cancer and need a million USD in treatment
i guess i'd buy insurance and divide the cost amongst us
A complete misinterpretation of the point.
The government does not compel you to pay taxes unless you work (contingent on the services the government provides both you and your employer), or purchase goods subject to taxation. If you live on the dole and purchase only VAT-exhempt or VAT-dodging goods, you will pay no taxes.
If we started to bill foreigners for their healthcare that would be a start, instead of allowing healthcare tourism. Also stop so much money being wasted on shit managers whose only purpose seems to be holding pointless meetings while traveling round in their leased BMWs and Audis and staying in fully comped hotels.
That hardly seems practical
The free market has helped the NHS in many circumstances. Cataract surgery waiting times were unmanageable until private companies were allowed to bring their nimble methods to the field, likewise simple endoscopies. People within the NHS will often say that these companies only take the profitable work and ignore to tricky stuff for the NHS to pick up. They are probably correct. But private companies paid by the NHS have done more to reduce waiting list than anything else... of course they have also done more to inflate the cost too.
VAT isn't charged on food or clothing so it's much more practical than you'd think for an imageboard weirdo lifestyle.
practicality comes a strong second to possibility, though. it is supremely impractical (or just a waste of time) to consider rolling back the ability of the government to coerce people. coercion is a powerful practical tool.
>homeless are dying in the streets in New York because they can't afford an ambulance
Good, fuck the vast majority of them.
And that 4% barely covers cost before improvement. I've worked there for 10 yrs now and the budget gets higher and the service gets worse. You are right that "reform" is needed.
basically this
and it only works if there are enough people out of a population contributing into it versus the consumption of its services
NHS "cuts".
Better read-up on what is budget baselining.
If the government predicts it will spend 5% more on NHS in the future, but only spends 4.5% more, this is classed as a "cut" of 0.5%....when actually its in increase.
The NHS needs root and branch reform. In a 1st world country (particularly one of the richest) people shouldnt have to worry about (good quality) (basic) healthcare, which can be free at the point of use, but other than that I am much less fussy about how it is achieved. The US system is the worst of all worlds and structurally retarded (no economies of scale). In the UK I suspect we would be much better off with the Swiss system of private insurance.
You're a cuck.
The NHS is a giant inverted pyramid of administration, with clinical staff at the pointy end.
It is an organisation where the incompetent can easily hide undetected. For decades.
Clinical staff do their best while constantly "sabotaged" by management requirements.
>dis
we don't even have to look at foreign countries to find a better way of running the NHS
Scotland left out a lot of the nonsense that has been introduced over the years since the Scottish NHS is technically a separate organisation, and since Devolution took place.
Ive spent a lot of time in hospitals visiting elderly relatives over the last few years.
Personally I'd rather take myself to a high-end vet. You get more care and attention and they are cleaner.
Pretty sure that just abuse of the elderly, it's absolutely rampant as those places will basically hire anyone as the pay is shit.
Have you ever left the UK? Not trying to be a cunt but I did a bit of traveling when I was younger but I am a totally comfy yokel now. When I did travel though I was a young man who didn't give much of a fuck about travel insurance and planning, and I certainly didn't have access to hundreds of thousands of pounds. Travel broadens peoples minds, shit, travel is probably what made me more "right wing".
All my contributions to my country have happened since I grew out of that phase. Good job I didn't suffer a medical emergency whilst I was away. I guess maybe that figured into my mind even at the time but I doubt it does to everybody.
And while I applaud personal responsibility, a civilized society also takes care of dickheads that make mistakes.
Maybe you just live in a shit area where all the doctors and nurses are dumb pakis and nigs. I had a stay in hospital followed by a lot of tests, and all the staff I dealt with were White British and very helpful and knowledgeable. They literally saved my life.
The NHS would be amazing if it got rid lot mangement pointless paper work.
And if they stoped migrants useing it .
Migrants working 10 years in england on min wage pay enough tax for 1 dinner lady in school for a year.
Why should they get medical help inless they pay a extra health tax for migrants
>you're right wing
>but believe in universal health care
Pick one.
That seems fair but in practice it works out very oddly in the free-at-point-of-use NHS.
Patients usually aren't in the best place to describe their circumstances and i've heard of nearby English patients having anxiety when an overseas patient is being asked about payment. I honestly believe we would need to hire Americans to come and demand money effectively. It is just not in our nature.
Wisdom: the post
I've said I'm paid by the system so my bias is obvious.
Which part of my comment makes you feel like I'm a cuck? Do you disagree that civilized societies should look after members of other civilized societies?
The NHS is a big money hole and it needs root-and-branch reform but by all means, describe to me a much better system Einstein.
Hans has a point. My entire department in a UK hospital is administrative, and although practically useful it has become more and more bureaucratic over 10 yrs. Every time I hear about a new management structure it involves a new unnecessary layer. Did I mention it is a nearly entirely female power structure?
Compared to the norm, yeah I'm right-wing.
"Universal" healthcare is not something I believe in, but I do believe the NHS is a good hing for the people of the UK. Despite the cost.
The BBC is a much more insidious waste of money, even though I have probably had more use for it than the NHS,.
i went out with a girl whose parents are admin people in a uk state hospital. they keep a fucking yacht in menorca year round. the nhs is a disgraceful gravy train.