Hey Pol. I'm a center-left Hillary voter. I believe in globalism and free trade.
But I voted against Obama both times, grew up republican, and argued every liberal shill growing up and in college.
So here's the thing. I have an open mind ( I like to think) so here's your chance to sell me on White supremacy (I am white), the alt-right movement, and trump (whom I hate).
go.
This is not reddit and this board does not exist to tell you personally how to feel.
>white supremacy
nice strawman. whites have the right to their own countries. if you argue against this you are the real racist
...
sage and report slide threads
>watch as this gets 300 posts within an hour because our mods are faggots
Think for your self shill
you all know what to put in the “options” tab
General retardation. Sage for politeness to the rest of the board.
Diverse societies don't work. Diverse Democracies REALLY don't work.
/thread
I know how I feel.
But you need to gain more followers or your little populist, "please may I eat your shit, Trump-senpai?" movement is likely to die out like the tea party did.
So I'm giving you a chance to make an convincing argument.
Read pic related and start by asking yourself why it's ok for everyone to be proud of their race and heritage except you.
Not saying they don't. Israel has a a Jewish state, if whites want one they should have one.
But the majority of people on this board believe whites are superior, no? Is that a straw man argument?
Sage
>But the majority of people on this board believe whites are superior, no? Is that a straw man argument?
yes
>I believe in globalism and "free" trade
all of my rope
I am proud of my heritage, I'm proud to be descended from warriors and scholars.
Shouldn't other races and ethnicities be proud too? Why do we need to separate the races? Why is one race or ethnicity better than any other?
white supremacy implies whites want to rule over other races. most white nationalists just want to be away from other races, not rule over or dominate them.
also whites did want one. but they were lied to in 1965 and told the new immigration act wouldn't change the demographics of the US. how do you feel about the 1965 immigration act? we can clearly see today that the populace of the country was lied to and the demographics have been actively changed.
do you not? how do people and nations benefit from isolationism and restricting trade?
Not being sarcastic, I'd like to hear the actual argument.
I believe free-trade enhances our ability to compete with other nations.
You neither want to be convinced of anything, or want to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion.
See you on rope day
think about different foods you like. do you mash them all together on your plate just because you like them all?
You are no longer allowed to be white and also support the Dems. They don’t want you and they seek to destroy you.
>how do people and nations benefit from isolationism and restricting trade?
the people in your country produce what you need, this creates jobs, and commerce. why import something that you can make yourself? why be dependent on another country for a product you can produce, while paying your countrymen to produce it?
just think about this. what if we got into a war with china? they make all of our junk, while we have dismantled our factories. what would happen when you go to war with a country you're reliant on goods for? what if you go to war with a country, and they attack another country that you are reliant on your goods for?
is saving 2 dollars on a piece of junk really better than spending an extra 2 dollars for goods that will last longer, and put money into the pockets of your countrymen?
also have you ever thought of the huge impact on the environment that's cause by constantly shipping goods around the world? i thought you leftists cared about this stuff
Okay, see, I always thought those who called themselves white-supremacists only CARED about whites, I didn't know you have a different view, this is good.
As to the Hart-Celler act, I tend to think that caring whether a citizen is valuable economically is more important than their country of origin or ethnicity.
It undoubtedly changed the ethnic landscape of America I simply think, A) that's not that big of a deal, and B) America was never conceived as an Ethno-state.
>Hey Pol. I'm a center-left Hillary voter. I believe in globalism and free trade.
You sound like a gigantic faggot beyond redemption. Do the world a favor and off yourself.
What's the most controversial thing you believe that you don't share with friends or family, or do you think the mainstream happens to have it correct in 2018 and you're super smart for toeing the line?
>America was never conceived as an Ethno-state.
have you ever read what the founding fathers had to say on this issue?
>sell me on White supremacy
how about i'll sells you on voting for the government to leave me the fuck alone. If whites were so fucking superior they wouldnt be getting their shit pushed in demographically.
>Hey pol
Fuck you
Saged
>Hillary voter
Congratulations, you made the objectively, verifiably worst democratic choice in known history. You should be sterilized.
compete to what end? to see who can waste the most resources? an economist could describe it more "in terms" but global trade and government subsidies hurts local economies, free market, and prohibitive regulations are placed that make it unprofitable to start or run many types of businesses that would be profitable and beneficial to local economies. none of this is done for the betterment of society or its individual members, it is quite literally done to maximise profit for huge multinational corporations and prevent coerce local economies into buying their products and services because its to expensive for individuals to start a local business that competes. if you're for this that is one thing, but if you support it because you think it is somehow beneficial to people and not just about a handful of individuals squeezing all the money out of a given market then you are mistaken.
a question for you, what do you do with the millions of dispossessed individuals created by such a system?
But some company in another country might make a product better, and for less of a cost, meaning that the consumer (and domestic companies that need materials) would benefit from international trade.
isn't that better for a capitalist system? more competition?
As to war, if we go to war with China, that means that void in manufacturing opens up and we get more jobs for other countries we trade with, plus jobs here. There is more than one country in the world we can trade with.
And yeah, international trade does adversely affect the environment, but so does all trade, and if the international free market deems something cheaper, doesn't that take precedence?
Isn't that what you right-wingers believe?
He's the only man with enough money coming into the Presidency that bribing him is completely counter-productive. He's a schmuck, and a shitposter and probably not a very pleasant person to have dinner with if you're not into type-A personalities, but he's 100% immune to the largest lever that senators, alphabet agencies, and lobbyists have. That alone puts him leaps and bounds ahead of every other person running that year, and it will put him leaps and bounds ahead of every other person running in 2020, as well. Trump is a a hope, a dim one at that, that one President can turn society around in its darkest hour.
I know this is bait, but if you need to be sold on white supremacy after everything you witnessed the past couple years you're already a lost cause. Saged, btw.
did you vote for Bernie in the primary?
Uhhh, not sure I understand the question completely, but I sure as fuck don't think I'm super-smart or that the MSM is right all the time and amazing.
My family is SUPER right-wing. My friends, super LEFT-wing. I think I'm somewhere in the middle, but I do believe that prostitution should be legal. That's probably the most "Controversial", though that could be seen as mild depending on your slant.
This. The Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791. In 1790 the Fathers of our Nation passed the Naturalization and Immigration Act which restricted citizenship to “free white persons of good moral character who have resided in the United States for at least 2 years.” White Nationalism is one of our founding documents and was the letter of law up until 1965.
Do I have to say that?
Yeah of course, I hated Hillary, I just hated Trump more in the general.
>But some company in another country might make a product better, and for less of a cost,
do you actually believe this? when we manufactured everything in america we made top notch products that lasted forever. now we buy cheap shit from china that breaks down in a year. i really don't care about paying a little more for a product when i know it will last longer. you actually save money buying more expensive better quality products that don't break as fast. i know it might seem like you're saving money, but in the long run when you have to buy the same product 10 times you are spending much more money.
>Isn't that what you right-wingers believe?
no it's not what i believe, i don't give a shit about buying cheap, poorly made products. i do care that money is being siphoned out of the US into the pockets of foreign countries when there is no reason for it. we can trade, but there is absolutely no reason to import goods we could easily make ourselves. and yes i care about the environment. china has no regulations and gives absolutely no shits about pollution. same goes for many foreign countries we buy goods from.
>though that could be seen as mild depending on your slant.
Yes, it is. I mean that if you find yourself agreeing with all conventional wisdom then you haven't really thought your belief system through. What's your philosophy on life? What motivates you? I think globalists are the scum of the earth, and I can tell you why.
why do you hate him?
You'll be disappointed to know that this board isn't actually the super secret neo-Nazi legion of doom HQ. It's hard to say exactly how many here are genuine white supremacists, but they are a minority. If you're not baiting and actually want a discussion with one you're not going to get it.
Well it's definitely an undeniable fact that globalism hurts manufacturers world-wide, I'll give you that.
But I'd argue that the natural progression of technology does that anyway. Mechanization is more to blame for displacing workers than globalism.
I'd argue that, in an age where I can go and read a multitude of articles and open-source online textbooks, it should be possible to train and educate anyone displaced by globalization and mechanization.
A revving economy and a middle-class workforce don't HAVE to be at odds. They only are because the rich don't want the working class to thrive.
The idea is that international trade cuts certain individuals out of the economy. For example, no American laborer can reasonably compete with essentially slave labor from China. Does that mean they don't deserve to earn a wage and live a good life? These are, of course, hard working, respectable citizens of our country.
Don't necessarily think of the economy just as a list of prices for things. It really has more to do with what people do every day to make their livings. Nationalism and protectionism encourage a more healthy and fair employment landscape.
Also, strategically, it's good not to be dependent on everyone else for necessary goods.
Do you believe that everyone can be trained to be an engineer, a doctor, or a researcher?
I think you'd find that the science does not support that view.
>isn't that better for a capitalist system? more competition?
It's only competition if the system isn't rigged. But China (and Japan (and Germany)) all have created domestic industrial policies custom made to give subsidies to manufacturers. The US has some subsidy, but it's not even close in comparison.
do you seriously think an economy can be built on nothing but white collar paper pushers that do nothing all day and produce nothing? like do you seriously believe this?
economies are built on labor. sitting in an office fucking around on computers all day isn't labor. you can only get so far by shuffling numbers around, you have to actually make something of value once in a while.
I believe that America isn't always #1 when making products, yes. China is, unfortunately, better situated to make Iphones that the US is.
The manufacturing boom post-WWII is a phenomenon that won't be repeatable in the 21st century.
I'm aware that cheaper isn't always better, but neither are American made products made BETTER, which I believe is your point. I meant what I said literally: If a country can make a product better AND for less of a cost, isn't that preferable?
And I'm glad to hear that you care about the economy, it means we have common ground. So to your original point, YES I care that it costs the environment more when we trade overseas, that's why I believe the Paris Agreement was important. We have to hold China responsible for how it produces things, and, if they can't do it cheaply anymore, we could be more than willing to pick up the manufacturing slack.
We do not like Trump or endorse him, however he is all we have at the moment, please do not associate us with r/t_d.
sage trips.
and you're right. But that doesn't mean they can't be educated to be useful to society. Car mechanics aren't doctors, but they earn a living wage and that's something that can be taught.
well, I don't really want to. Seriously.
But it's hard not to when he became the face of the movement.
You didn't answer my question, user
No I don't. I just think that from the trends we've seen, the era of someone earning a middle-class salary from a factory job is at an end.
Labor, whether you like it or not, is being taken over by machines. We need to adapt to that, and I believe the most logical course is to educate those who have been displaced.
I went back and found this article I read somewhere in college for you. web.mnstate.edu
The TLDR is a native society trades with Europeans and "better" axes destroy their society. My point with this is just that one should be aware of the effect trade has on your people. Not all trade, even for demonstrably better and cheaper products, is good for your people or your society.
(I know it's an obscure and out of context example, but I'm sure you could imagine an analogous modern situation.)
why aren't we funding more trade schools? why do we demonize blue collar workers as white trash and uneducated? why do we tell kids everyone can do anything they want as long as they put their mind to it, and everyone can be college educated brilliant rocket surgeon geniuses?
why is actual labor so looked down upon? who started this trend and why? i'm genuinely asking because it baffles my mind
>Voted McCain
>Voted Romney
>Voted Rodham
So you're a corporate shill? Or just plain retarded?
Shit posting in a thread won’t make it better.
Sorry, I'm drunk and there are a lot of responses.
I clearly am not just agreeing with conventional wisdom, that's why I'm here, having this discussion.
My philosophy on life is to try and create the most good for the most people (call me a sucker for Kant.)
As to what motivates me: I'm terrified of death so I want to complete as much as I can before I die.
The latter doesn't inform my political ideologies.
I am an unabashed capitalist (My friends would refer to me as a Wall Street Democrat, as an insult.) as I believe that it is an imperfect system, but the best we have so far. I also believe that rampant capitalism is bad for individuals, so I support social programs like medicaid and social security.
I'm not looking to take the world down and make all people the same through a new world order, I just think that the natural evolution of humanity is eventually going to lead to a global society, and that we're already halfway there, so why fight it?
If played right, we can make it so that it works for the common, everyday worker, it doesn't have to be an illuminati-esque takeover.
No faggots allowed.
Go hard Democrat so when the civil war hits I can run you over with my truck.
>the era of someone earning a middle-class salary from a factory job is at an end.
I'm against illegal immigration because not only is the market for low skilled labor going to get much narrower but the immigrants themselves devalue the work of American laborers, of which there is a surplus. This doesn't affect me or my immediate family specifically but it does affect my extended family and many of the people they know/employ
>I also believe that rampant capitalism is bad for individuals, so I support social programs like medicaid and social security.
What do you define as "rampant capitalism"? Government-supported monopolies like Google? Or maybe media conglomerates like Time Warner? or Disney? The problem with medicine in the US is the market stranglehold that allows price gauging to occur in the first place
And while we’re on this topic why did we import so many low wage workers since 1965?
This is why I'm here. I agree with you. Not everyone is exceptional.
I'm all for trade schools, the more we allow people to do what they're good at, the better.
And honestly, I can't tell you. You could look it up at say Democrats in the 2010's, and I'm sure you'd be right. That doesn't mean that I don't think that Trump and Republicans NOW aren't trying to dismantle policies that would hurt the American worker in the next 5 years.
Because global society, where the common man is a peasant and 3 or 4 corporations create everything, is an objectively bad situation for everyone but those 3 or 4 corporations. If you want the most good for the most people, that is the LAST situation you should want.
That's the future your free market, free trade system leads to. You know that.
>My philosophy on life is to try and create the most good for the most people
Admirable sentiment, but not much of a philosophy. What does that mean in actionable terms?
>I just think that the natural evolution of humanity is eventually going to lead to a global society, and that we're already halfway there, so why fight it?
And I think that's pure utopian evil - as long as you understand why others might feel differently then we can have a dialogue, and it seems you do.
>If played right, we can make it so that it works for the common, everyday worker, it doesn't have to be an illuminati-esque takeover.
This kind of thinking makes you extremely dangerous in my estimation.
>free-trade enhances our ability to compete with other nations
Most people either skipped macro-economics or slept through it. It's about imports/exports, and their effects on the local economy. Basically, a country can pay for its imports (and fucker, outsourcing labor or manufacturing is still importing) is with exports. Figure out how to get more exports from the US to either match or exceed its imports, and I'll hop aboard that train with you.
You're a dime a dozen liberal(technical term, not just american leftist), why would anyone car about your sophistry.
Sage shit b8
i think it was to keep the population growth continuing instead of evening out, so we can have never ending cancerous growth of the economy
like what the fuck in real life just grows forever? what's so wrong with a stabilized economy/population growth?
I'll be reading it while I respond, thank you.
I'm not saying unregulated or infinite trade is good. I just mean that increasing trade with other nations is beneficial to Amercia, and negotiating a fair, free-trade agreement, where there are no levies or tariffs is good for the economy.
I'm also not saying that this isn't consequence free, there ARE ramifications, but I believe that it creates a net-good for the country.
Saged
Fuck off we're full
ah, I think I see where you are.
Globalism isn't what you think it is. Trade laws are incredibly complicated, so be very careful when looking at ANY information about economics/trade.
Globalism means a desire to have a global govt. Global laws regarding trade that everyone follows. This is effectively the building of a global govt. Global govt means every nation is under it. No nation is soveirgn. If you believe in democracy, you do not want a globalized govt. Institutions like the UN are our enemy.
Spend some time looking at the immigration issue in europe. It's a real-time collapse. It illustrates the importance of national soveirgnty. Trump is a nationalist, and you are a globalist. This is why you don't like trump. Once you better understand globalism, you'll at least stop hating trump, then you can better help us all figure out wtf is really going on.
Just remember, "free trade" doesn't require force. Global trade laws are NOT "free trade". Be VERY careful with names and labels. They are often misleading, like the Patriot Act.
>My philosophy on life is to try and create the most good for the most people
You've just described why people vote right-wing.
>White supremacy (I am white), the alt-right movement, and trump (whom I hate)
That's like me describing all liberals as being white-haiting, african-supremecist, feed your kids hormones cause cis is evil, (insert plural noun here). It ignores all critical thinking.
Here is the real redpill on free trade.
>Bill clinton signs NAFTA
>the local farming economies of poor mexicans cant compete with massive US corn subsidies
>mexicans are now all poor and unemployed
>they come to the US illegally for jobs
>Clinton and his capitalist friends get to undercut american wages with a massive flow of migrants they created
>american labor gets fucked
>mexican migrants get fucked
>Trump get elected because normies are pissed about mexican illegals and low wages
>Free trade is just a way for the Rich to fuck over everyone
>liberals support this
Protectionism by either mexico or the USA could have stopped this
Trump is just a symptom of the problem with liberalism and globalism
Sage
It's purposefully vague, if I lay out every single action that I believe creates a net-good, I'd be writing " A Treatise On How Not To Be An Asshole" by user. to clarify, if you gain property or position from an interaction is for your individual good, and if the goods of a group of people are net positive, then we as a society have created something, and that's what we should focus on.
btw, thank you for the discussion, dialogue like this is what helps make our country great.
And I'd love to hear why you think globalization is inherently a force for bad (genuinely, not sarcastically), because I tend to think that more efficiency and coming together can be beneficial to all parties (like making a business deal.)
TruMp is good at business and tells it like it is. No pc bullcrap
I'm glad you're reading it. Impressed you're at least exploring these ideas.
I'm going to call it a night,but just realize that none of us are talking about doing away with global trade. We're talking about negotiating trade deals that are in the best interests of our people. Those may, at times, involve a tariff. The view that they are never appropriate is actually quite extreme.
male feminists are cringe mate
I'm going with this. It's a solid point.
1. True
2. It is definitely repeatable, its was barely even a boom considering the boom we could have had without FDR fucking the economy for his whole existence.
3. We can make the product better, the reason it cost less is because of us taxing companies as well as regulations that china or vietnam do not follow. We have the potential to make it even cheaper if you free up buisness to make their own choices.
You arent going to hold china responsible for shit.
But there can't be such a thing as a global democracy? What if we removed a step or two from electing representatives who elect representatives? Do you think there could be such a thing as a global democracy? I personally think there that, while institutions like the UN are clunky and non-democratic, a future global democracy is possible.
and, if I'm not mistaken, though the immigration issue in Europe is fraught with incompetence and failure to vet threats, Europe needs those workers since they are facing a birthing crisis?
Also, free trade agreements like NAFTA weren't won through force, they were negotiated carefully to create the best outcomes possible. Should they be updated? I believe so, absolutely, but they are essentially positive.
>o here's your chance to sell me on White supremacy (I am white)
Every person with healthy self esteem believes that their ethnicity is superior. Being opposed to the idea of the superiority of your own ethnicity is conditioned self hatred.
You have been behaviorally conditioned to distrust yourself. If you want to keep torturing yourself by internalizing the propaganda of those that hate you, feel free.
you have got to be kidding me. The last thing on earth you should want is a global governing system
I'm not convinced by your attitude that we need to do anything. You seem like you're too lazy to do your own research and you want us to do the work for you. Fuck you.
>reads the rest of the thread anyway
Still not convinced, despite the fact that you're decently intelligent, you fail to grasp what most of us here want to accomplish: securing the existence of our people and a future for white children.
It's that simple. It's not about ethnocentric-supremacy or genocide of other races.
>I'd love to hear why you think globalization is inherently a force for bad
Look no further than these sources.
zerohedge.com
But in my own words, and to keep it brief, Globalization transfers jobs from developed countries to less developed countries, uses up finite resources more quickly, leads to huge trade deficits and other imbalances between developed countries and less developed countries. It's synonymous with Communism, for the fact that it makes us all equally shit while the only ones who genuinely benefit are (((TPTB))).
eat a dick fag
I was going to include other links, but fuck it, DYOR on the Federal Reserve, the biggest scam in human history. Nothing but fairy dust backed by (((trust))).
A fine point, as a caveat I will add that we do subsidize. We just give the subsidies to Farmers so that we can burn food (corn) in our cars, which does nothing good for the environment but raises the costs of both fuel and food.
>voted against Obama twice
sure bud
The fact that every technologically advanced nation in the world was bombed to shit after WWII, and we weren't, makes the manufacturing boom an anomaly.
And that's true, you're right, America has higher taxes on it's companies so other countries can produce parts for less, but, other factors also contribute, and, in some sectors of the economy, it's impossible for the US to compete with manufacturing, in part because we're so far away from the rest of the world, so it would be too expensive.
And, if my sources aren't shameless liberal shills, China IS moving into the alternative energy market (because of greed, but hey, that means we should too.)
that is not the reason we give subsidies to farmers. The reason to stabilize the cost of food, and give farmers a little security in a job that is normally terribly insecure. The result is a surplus of corn, small price to pay.
Just go watch the greatest story never told, it’s long but don’t be intimidated, watch it part by part if you need to, hell take a week to do it, but do it from beginning to end
You really need to look more into the immigration crisis.
Do you think one govt can fairly govern over a nation like the USA and a Muslim nation? Do you think that Sharia law can exist alongside the Constitution?
If you answer is no, which it should be, consider how a socialist economy like Venezuela's can work under the same trade laws as a more capitalistic economy like the USA? Do you believe one govt can overlook two systems of law with any semblance of fairness, order, or accountability?
>But the majority of people on this board believe whites are superior, no?
There is no way of knowing what the "majority" of people think or feel here. Thats one of the greatest things about it that hides it from the shitty effects of over-socialization.
no one really thinks whites are the supreme race, what most people think is that all races are just different
research what fascism really is and you'll see it's the best ideology out there - cultured thug on youtube is particularly good for this
>And I'd love to hear why you think globalization is inherently a force for bad
I think the solution is hyper-local, not global. I live in a major city, and none of my leftist friends know their neighbors or give a shit about their problems, but care deeply about people they've never met. When they tell me that coal is bad and solar should be supported, they have no answer when I ask them if they want to be the one to tell 1000 people in West Virginia that they're out of work because a bureaucrat who's never been to that town thinks it's the right move.
We've destroyed our sense of community for these high-minded ideas of what a fair world should look like, blind to the suffering that's right in front of us.
Damn man, I'm sorry. You're too far gone. I tried.
What happens when someone sinister rises to the world throne? What do you propose we do about it? Nationalism is in this sense more "diverse" and insulated against this sort of failure.
And that's not even considering why the fuck everyone should have to live under the same set of laws. Nobody really wants that. People just have different preferences. Maybe Sup Forums wants to live in a protectionist natsoc wonderland, and you want to live in a neoliberal paradise. The real redpill is that we can both have what we want. It's a big planet.
Sup Forums is not one person
the world was bombed to shit yes i understand but we also had a retard who did everything ijn his power to make sure we did not suceed and we succeeded in spite of him. the depression lasted 10x the length it should have.
I want you to tell me why we cannot compete. The distance is not a good reason since transportation is the lowest costing thing on this planet. We transport rice to china, where they wash it and plastic bag it and send it back to california for sale. Thats because of the miracle of specilization, but it works well to refute your point. Your sources are most definitely liberal shills.
