Universal basic income. Good idea or bad?

Universal basic income. Good idea or bad?

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youtube.com/watch?v=OmRc_5t8_pc
basicincome.org/news/2017/10/overview-of-current-basic-income-related-experiments-october-2017/
strawpoll.me/15057405
youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ
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>literally only lazy shitskins want gibsmedat

Poland?

worst idea ever.

youtube.com/watch?v=OmRc_5t8_pc

Poles are basically albino niggers. Havent seen a pole break his back working.

A more pragmatic idea would be a culling

It's simple. You pay EVERYONE a wage they can live on. You can't possibly be against someone not having enough money to feed their 5 children they had with 4 separate men right?

Dysgenic policy.

Also Germany basically already has all inclusive gibsmedats for literally anybody that manages to enter the borders.

good when robots and ai replace the majority of low skill jobs. bad right now

I think it will be inevitable in the future when robots are more commonplace, but not now.

gib gib gib gib :3

hard to see real world while you shitpost 24/7 in a basement, hiding behind nuflag, you fucking idiot.

great idea.

in 10 years our welfare systems will collapse.
How would ubi be financed?

This would cause the lazy to drop out of the workforce entirely to live on gibs. This would put a bigger tax burden on everyone else, potentially causing entire nations to become bankrupt. So no, if you can work but choose not to, you should starve.

Current UBI experiments

basicincome.org/news/2017/10/overview-of-current-basic-income-related-experiments-october-2017/

>basicincome.org

That’s totally not biased.

Im a developer, make good money (for UK standards at least) but I literally just spend my money on one holiday a year and living/expenses..

If you give me enough money to cover that like shit im going to carry on getting up at 6:30am "to better myself" as UBI supporters claim it would do.

Sure.. Id better myself by jacking off on the sofa 10+ times a day with my endless free time...

Good if you live in a homogeneous country that can control its borders/immigration.

If not then its bad. It will never work in the US or Canada.

tax the kikes

Horrible idea

Robo-socialism is bad.

Can you demonstrate the bias?

Basically this.

Oh that must be why anglos are so mad that we stealing their jobs and then don't even show up to work later

TAX THE KIKES TRADE WAR NOW

it makes more sense that certain welfare programs that just bloat bureaucracy. give it directly to people so it can be spent more efficiently

It’s good only if you’re a filthy gibber

strawpoll.me/15057405

Could only work on a community scale, and only if the community has control over its own finances and transient laws. Impossible even in a large city, let alone a state or nation. As soon as you can live anonymously, unaffected by the social pressure of your neighbors, it falls apart.

Why not implement a 100% tax so the government could take what it needs and redistribute everything else equally?
FINALLY THE EQUALITY OF OUTCOME WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!

I already did.

Hard to say what it is I see in >you

Ignores the basic idea of currency. Currency is a means of exchange and measuring stick to value how much goods and services are worth.

If everyone has a $30,000, then nobody has $30,000. If everyone make $1,000,000, nobody does, and so on.

Everything will become far more expensive, the basic income will amount to nothing, standards of living change for nobody, other than wiping out the savings of people with cash in the bank and creating inefficiencies.

we actually HAD a referendum on UBI and only 23.1% of people voted yes

now imagine those shithole countries had democracy like we do

Yes as long as you get rid of literally every other benny and make it just enough to have a flat, food and heating.

I agree, but there's more to life than just money to get by, me personally, when I got laid off I had money to get by but I just started hitting the bottle, hard, and got crazy depressed, it was a nightmare.

Not saying that it isn't a bad idea, but only if we implement it with community work and such or something along those lines. People gotta have a purpose and a reason to get up in the morning.

BALTIC THREAD

Why must Spain be always so full of commies??? I’m so embarrased...

More efficient to administer than welfare programs.

Doesnt remove the incentive to work like welfare programs.

Encourages lefties to restrict immigration to preserve their programs existence.

Eliminates the rational of minimum wage.

Its better than the current system.

>circular reasoning

It is just a good idea in an utopian world - just like communism.
Imagine a future where the robot do everything better than man - or most of things. Share the wealth with all the people. But even in this case - what will be economy if there is no work -.
All it do is ignores what means to be human, and ours interrelations - with people and inner motivation. Most of things you do is because you must - and it gives you reason in life.
In before there is no free stuff - there is always someone working for that. There will be people working for the others - it is how tax works - but in this case who works will work for everyone else.

>why don't people want to be obedient wageslaves like me?

That's exactly what I did when I got laid off, that and drink. It was horrible, people gotta have a purpose. And yeah, I had money saved up, but what does it matter when one doesn't have a purpose.

Sounds OK in principle but how would you prevent immigrants/refugees non-native scroungers from receiving it? Sounds like a magnet for 3rd worlders/muslim trash?

Again, it ignores the fact that money serves as a measuring stick. Doctors make 10 times the wages of waiters. Doctors make 4 times the salaries of accountants.

When waiters earn $30,000 per year, doctors earn $300,000 per year, and accountants earn $75,000 per year. Basic income, of $20,000 will make $20,000 the new zero, we'll see waiters earning $50,000, doctors earn $500,000, and accountants earning $200,000. The whole market inflates, cost of living increases accordingly, and nobody is better off.
The financial system is temporarily fucked over, the economy tanks and is completely inefficient until everything adjusts and stabilizes.

Objectively false.
Tests of UBI prooved that it stimulates the economy by helping purshasing power.
The more you buy/sell the more your local economy grows, it implies being clever enough not to buy corporate product but also stopping neets from getting more neetbucks for nuffin.

I play vidya and shitpost all day. I think thats the point With vidya. To marginalize the losers and be done With memejobs

This can only possibly work if the ultra-rich more or less agree to be financially responsible for like, half the world or even more. Inevitable if we want to become a post-scarcity automated society but right now it sure as hell won't receive any ears from the richest people.

To start with, these rich folks won't be "making" like they are now because there would be no wealth accumulation (i.e trickle down would be finally realized). If we assume this basic income must be adjusted to what is considered "minimum standards of living", increasing prices would be worthless to capitalists since their share of UBI-tax would proportionately increase to match standards of consumption. Might as well give things for symbolic prices such as 1$.

Admittedly, the "actually working class" could potentially be much better off from this. Having your basic needs guaranteed not by enforced government processes but through income, with you having ability to choose what you individually consider to be basic needs, allows for much more leeway in choosing and pursuing career prospects (e.g researchers, technicians, doctors, etc.), specially if it would translate into extra income. There would be many leechers but the ones who would have worked anyway, I believe would be much more productive under UBI. Still, right now it's a very bad idea, society is fragmented and polarized, a movement towards wealth distribution would probably cause a French revolution type of event.

Could probably work in a ethnically homogeneous state, but would be suicide with all these lazy niggers

bad but will be necessary

Good idea.

Not at all. Would you expect a website lobbying for basic income to feature studies disproving their theories? Common sense tells you that Communism caters to the lazy, which is why it has failed in every place it was implemented.

Will work if all memejobs are eliminated, and free Entertainment is provided (so the low IQs that live on this shit wouldnt reproduce)

I work with several Polish lads, they are all hard working and assimilate quite well, in huge contrast to dumb lazy brown scroungers, they are the best kind of migrants to the country. Chill as fuck too, albeit way too loud sometimes.

Wow, look, desperate Spanish or on the brink of starvation, unable to find a decent job and being bled out with taxes skyrocketing to pay public debt, are up to receive the basic income they cannot get working because fucking liberal government destroyed labour market by denying all fucking basic rights of workers, so now people is getting half of what the average rent costs in salary, that being the best case scenario.

>They must be lazy.

on principal no one should have to work.

however basic income is suicide in todays society

...

>Poles assimilate well.
Mate what. Even Albanians assimilate better than Poles and they essentially don't assimilate.

Not to mention everyone with savings gets fucked

I rarely see Spanish posters mention this. Spain is kinda fucked

Polish brazilian tpurist here has brazilian wife and children and speaks english portu and probably polish

Thats because of eu subsidies, destroys native economy

But where does this money come from? It comes from the productive members of society and is distributed to the unproductive. This incentivizes laziness.

Stfu you southern nogger, your shitholes are subsidized.

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

Don’t be so childish of blaming the government. We are better governed than if we had PSOE in charge.

Then if basic income is 12-15k/year it would be reasonable?
If everything inflates then the new basic income amount is still a lot more than having no money at all so people without jobs for whatever reason are better off than they were before.

The main problem is that the governments of our countries are likely to bump up tax by 5% to pay for it. Now that would really make the situation worse for almost everyone.

Finance would actually cease to have any point if true UBI could be established. The people at the top would have to find new measuring sticks (secluding access to life-prolonging medicine? No way to know right now), and enforce policies that people today would easily denounce as cheap communism. More worrisome than getting rid of the financial system (instead of trying to fit it in this new model) would be finding the natural resources to sustain a model where everyone actually is middle class. To sum it up, any talk about UBI strictly can't involve the current financial system BECAUSE it uses money as measure of social position.

This.

bad

Verry good.

If the universal basic income is granted to immigrants it will collapse and cause racism and potentially genocide.
>our economy is weimar tier because of niggers
If it doesn´t apply to immigrants the inflation causd by it will make it impossoble for immigrants to afford living because no matter how hard they work they will always be x ammount of basic income behind the normal citizens and will have problem affording housing etc.
>housing costs 0,9*x€ and I make x€ a month but it´s ok because we all get about 1/3x€ a month by the state

I am Italian so a lazy fuck but that's a terrible idea. Simply put, a big fat chunk of population won't have any reason to work, and that would go weighing over public costs and eventually will need more taxation.

it's a dog self biting it's tail

Ubi will not cause any inflation, just increase transactions and increase the economy.

Controlled experiments do not generalize to the real economy

Poles hustle in my experience at least in construction

This fucking country is beyond salvation. Fucking democracy was an excuse politicians used to dismantle the economy and put the money in their pockets. Now we are sailing the storm with a ship full of holes.

Would be fucking justified to just intervent it, force national authorities out, and impose a technocrat junta that just sorts out this wreck.

>big fat wont have reason to work
Wrong.

In a nearly fully automated market, laziness has to be accepted as norm and dealt with in a way that still stimulates consumption. This talk seems to make no sense now but we must prepare for a day where even people who want to, will not be able to find work, being quite literally useless insofar as production is considered.

I’m not taking a dime of tax money. Rather, it’s my money paying for all those lazy niggers. You think I’m happy about that? Get fucked commie.

Idiotic idea. Simply lower the taxes to achieve the same effect.

Do you even have clean water in your redneck backwatter?

It will, if the state pays you x€ for free all providers of goods will increase their prices because you can afford it anyways.
The same ammount of money will be worth less products than before.
That´s called inflation.

Nope, consumption will increase, more transactions, greater economy, mich more money able to ne made by producers.

Well no because the unemployed don't pay taxes

You could take your wages and invest in capital instead of trendies. In the US you can do this on your phone. I’m sure you all can figure it out.

if it's coupled to automation it can work, but only truly automated parts of the economy should be UBI, wich could be like 50 euros a month these days, but in years it will grow.

Look, these are the richest people in Europe. Most of them made their fortune by themselves and not by crying like lazy faggots because they don’t receive a basic income.

haha you suck

wtf, over 50% support universal basic income

no wonder every country is moving towards socialism/communism each day

>We elected a literal retarded man to take the wheel, but hey, could be worse, we could have elected the other retarded who is also a fucking feminist cocksucker, so don't complain.

I'm sorry, but man, of course I am complaining about an incompetent government. Just because the other option was worse it doesn't mean we just have to accept a mediocre leader.

You don't know Italians man.
First off, those who work are taxed as hell. You really need COURAGE here to start up even a bar or a pizza place really.
Second, here you don't simply apply and find work. We live in a shitty place where actual, good steady work is found by "friends of friends" or if you know/are family with some influent people.

Add that the Italians have a tendency of gibsmedat inside our DNA (especially from Tuscany and below), and that is a perfect recipe for economic collapse.

The ammount of products doesn´t increase.
If consumption goes up and the ammount of protucts doesn´t the price increases.
But I guess all of history was wrong and this time everything will be different.
You are like a retarded child waiting for the apple to fall up.

The worst water filtration plants in the United States are better than 62% of the municipal water supplies in Europe.

>source: Automation controls engineer with a specialty in Water Treatment & Waste+Storm water pollution control

I can destroy UBI with two simple, yet unanswerable, questions:
>If everybody is given free money, what incentive does anyone have to continue working?
>If nobody works, who pays for the UBI?

Ubi has nothing to do with communism but expansion of purchasing power and more transaction and exchange.

It is bullshit, pushed by Billionaires to cement their status for eternity.
In the 1970s, the Labor Bureu did research showing that at current rates of productivity increase and wage increase, humanity will be faced by one "crisis" in the year 2000 - How to spend leisure time effectively, as we would have so much free time and high wages (i.e low working hours).
What happened?
The elite changed the system and productivity rose, but wages stagnated for 40+ years. The directorship class hid Trillions of Dollars in off-shore banking havens.
Why are Billioanires not talking about this money?
They want us to be grateful for $1000 a month "free money", when we would have had multiple times that if they hadn't looted and asset stripped our economies, and we would have been stakeholders/ shareholders in those companies.
UBI is the welfare state, not a productive economy. We don't get to own what we formerly had access to own.
people simply have no idea how much money has been stolen by (((Neo-Liberalism) since the 1970s.

Ubi just gives supply for exchange, you exchange services and goods for such that you want.

If I can pretend to be the deluded UBI supporter for you, here is your answer:
>Because they want more money than UBI provides

Love how you kikes endlessly change the definitions of words and then at the very terminus of the argument refer back to the original definition. Really is an amazing technique.

Does this match the proportions of foreign nationals in the UK? Only if not does it say anything.