What was his fucking problem? how could he let his insecurities lead to the destruction of mankind?

what was his fucking problem? how could he let his insecurities lead to the destruction of mankind?

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that is the exact opposite of what happened, did you even watch it

Shinji is cute! Cute!

He was too much of a pussy to fuck Asuka.

Is that a real guy or a cartoon? I think it's a cartoon but it almost looks like a real guy.

He literally saved mankind instead of taking the easy way out.

Say what, nigga?

It was the jews that doomed mankind. Shinji was just caught in the middle.
I repeat, the jews.

I guess it's obviously a cartoon. Fuck. I've made yet another stupid post.

>I didn't watch the show

When was the last time you saw another human being?

Listen, I don't want to talk about this any more.

I think we all know why.
Pic related.

...

to be fair to the plot, piloting the mecha isn't "piloting" it's merging with a LAWL machine spirit.

The shield that protects EVAs are literally the pilot's own sense of individuality.

Putting something that personal out there is pretty traumatic.

sorry, english is not my first language. i meant to say that he thought about doing so, just because he couldn't bear the thought of some people disliking him?

There are 4 separate "canons", all of them being real and a part of the multiverse of suffering that is Eva. In ALL of them Shinji has fucked over mankind, outdoing himself in how spectacularly he can kill everyone in each outing. Its something about humanity suffering across all realities for Ikari's trespassing into God-Science. Even we the viewers suffer, its pottery.

what would you do if you where evenalgion?

On one level, Evangelion is about overcoming personal insecurity to persevere in do-or-die situations where all responsibility for success lies on one individual, a child in fact. If he weren't stressed by these circumstances to the point of perhaps preferring death, it would be both unrealistic and less dramatic.

On another level, Shinji's emotional makeup is partly due to his social environment. His social status is extremely low. His mother is dead. His father is wholly absorbed by his work, and only sees the boy as a means to an end. Shinji has no confidant, his anomie hampers normal relationships and he is later literally isolated from his peers. He more or less correctly feels unloved and unvalued except for his ability to pilot an EVA, a task that would be taxing for an emotionally healthy adult. Nevertheless he is expected to conform to the highest expectaions imagineable, recieving little in the way of acknowledgement in return.

TL;DR if Japanese society doesn't chill the fuck out a little so that their people have time and energy for healthy emotional lives, they're all going to be in a world of shit.

On one level, Evangelion almost seems real. You look at cartoon guys and think: that could be real; is it real?

it's hard to be a person and have responsibilities
that's literally what the show is about

he did tho, asuka was pregnant or something

I distinctly seem to remember the actions of an underground cabal of elites manufacturing WW3, ensuing control of the world post-war and then dabbling in dark forgotten magics to end the world being the actual cause of mankinds destruction.

Funny how people forget that part.

Its so sad, but its true, fucking hell

nah it was a japanese kid that just wanted to stick his dick in a qt3.16 crazy redhead but struggled with being japanese

said redhead is a worthless whore anyway

getting to join with the bluehaired goddess spiritually and sensually was Shinji's best moment in life.

Its ok user everything is going to be alright.

>cartoons posting at me pretending to be real people
I know the difference

Does Asuka has the most satisfactory conclusion/ending of all the characters? she's finally ok with their mother after all the pain she felt.

>Dude I read a synopsis of the show and now know it inside and out!

Fuck the Escapist. They are consistently shit.

No, Asuka has no conclusion at all. She's a plot device, and what you refer to is 100% melodrama with zero character and isn't even her ending/conclusion, that's seen in the final scene. Basically, Asuka is a meme character.

Shinji has by far the most satisfying conclusion and ending, being the centerpieces who achieves understanding and piece. Alongside with Rei, who also does the same but over more episodes and in the final conclusion, defeating Gendo and achieving her lost Godhood.

Gendo also gets a mention here since he gets his comeuppance.

All Shinji wanted from life to be left alone. He chose to pilot to EVA because the people he cared for would get hurt. That was also the reason he rejected Human Instrumentality.

The story was never NGE's strongest points. It was the emotion behind the show. It's the closest the grasp the idea of being depressed

>Isolation
>Loneliness
>Escapism
>Abandonment issues

People around the world obsessing with the story beg to differ.

The story is excellent and believable enough to captivate and convince.

youtube.com/watch?v=kGMuaXIlckU

Her conclusion is slightly less metaphorical than Shinji's, but she solves her attachment issues by realising that her mother is with her in her mind, no matter what she does. Her mother was there in spirit all along, and it's by realising that when someone dies you still have all the good memories and experiences with them left behind. She realises she doesn't need the attention of others, she can be isolated AND have the attention she deserves. She solves her hedgehog's dilemma.

The only difference is her mother's souls is LITERALLY inside EVA-02

>giant robot

Shinji piloted the EVA because he wanted other people to like him, and they praised him when he piloted it. He literally says this multiple times at various breakdowns.

His issue is that he also doesn't like being the centre of attention because it makes others hate him, and he hates himself, so he feels like he doesn't deserve the attention he craves. It's a paradox that's at the core of his character.

>NGE
>believable

You're just an idiot.

Shinji is one of the most beautiful, and truthful characters there is in anime.
If he was a real boy i'd fall in love so fucking hard.
People who doesn't understand his character are either very emotional underdeveloped (just as Shinji himself) or just watch anime for le epic fight scenes and shouldn't be watching Evangelion in the first place.
Just because he's not a badass and he's sensible doesn't make him a bad character.

This. Shinji eternally best girl.

...

This.

>NGE
>Not believable

>One World Government disguising itself as (((Democracy)))
>People too busy being drunk or wageslaves to realize the world they are living in.
>After a major disaster where billions of people died, people are still continuing their lives
>They show how complex the military and Evangelions work

Literally everyone in the show is emotionally and psychologically damaged in some way. Obviously they're not going to act like normal people. And that was even before all the shit started happening, and it made it even worse. Plus the main characters are 14 so add hormones on top of that.

Are you fucking high?

The characters' traumas are very realistically portrayed. Anno hated kawaii archetypical characters that plagued and still plague anime, so he made the characters respond like real kids would, not your typical shonen hero from Naruto or whatever.

You tell a wimpy 14 year old american kid with deep-seated separation anxiety that they have to pick up this gun and go fight a bear or the world will literally end, and then tell them they have to do it 17 more times and it's not surprising that the pressure cracks them.

No. Asuka herself solves nothing, and the presence or absence of her mother does not and will not solve her issues alone, given that she's guilty of multiple failures as a human being. The hedgehogs dillemma isn't solvable as such, but is a constant issue related to relating to OTHER people, it's the issue of comfortable distance. Don't use terms you don't understand.

Asuka doesn't have a substantial conclusion, that is, "being told something" is an event external to a character. and not internal. Without detailing Asuka's character, concluding it if you will, all you have is an unfinished character. Contrasted with Shinji or Rei, the only two characters with an actual strong conclusion in the series, Asuka comes up short. Asuka's ending is essentially a black hole where overzealous fanboys insert way too much of their own fantasies, and while that may be the intention, it means that there is no conclusion, save for that it ends of course. Putting it simple, it's melodrama.

How is that melodrama in any way?

>Literally everyone in the show is emotionally and psychologically damaged in some way.

Shigeru Aoba was the sanest character of the bunch.

>Never loved anyone

100% sane and /ourguy/

How is it not? It's a singular character, talking to itself, receiving "illumination" from a plot device, with no dialogue or reasoning whatsoever.

Cut the music, and what you're left with is something of so poor quality it could only be found in fan fiction. The drama is paper thin and builds completely and wholly on a single thing, musical direction, the forte of the director and writer the project is associated with. Think of what it actually is:

>my favorite character is by circumstance protected from harm, and out of nothing, is given reprieve and what she lacks in life

This is a device to increase the shock when reality strikes, and she's ripped to pieces. Asuka represents failure in Evangelion for more than one reason, her fantasy and non-accomplishments are rewarded with death, just like in NGE. It's thematically fitting, because no conclusion is precisely what her character gets.

She rejected death and fought with the strength of resolving spiritually her abandonment from his mentally ill mother.
She realizes it's not her fault and values herself as a individual more than a prodigy or a good pilot.
Her demise is incredibly tragic because even she's at last at peace with his mother, she's finally full and emotionally mature at hmthat instant, just to be killed in minutes.

I may agree that it's a little melodramatic, but melodrama is not bad itself, i hate people keep carring that idea, you can give your characters emotionally over the top elements and they still can be true (Mad Men, Gone Girl, etc).

Asuka is driven so far into the depths of her despair, and is forced to confront painful memories she had suppressed. The act is cathartic, and allows her to resolve her issues.

It's a little quick, sure, but it's hardly out of nowhere. She finds a better solution than repressing her memories. Effectively she embraces her mother for who she was, rather than how she was when she died.

I think I understand what you're saying but it's not like it came completely out of nowhere since it was established beforehand that both Angels and Evas have souls. So where did these souls come from? 01 seems to be Yui's soul and 02 is Asuka's mom's soul. So she realizes that this is the case and it raises her morale, allowing her to not only sync with the Eva but to a higher degree than she was able to do before.

The ending is what I'm wondering about though since it seems to show that even through all this stuff (the instrumentality, which I imagine for at least a short time she and Shinji would have been connected through this, plus if you take the series ending as canon she goes through something similar to Shinji) her thoughts about Shinji haven't really changed, though there's little context for her last words to take them with.

God, I love that scene.

You seem to be missing the point. It's _only_ melodramatic. When you say she "rejected death" and so on, that amounts to no change even if it were true. She's transported by others into that EVA and takes no action of her own until her mother interferes, which then aids her for a moment - before she dies and pays the price.

You also miss the point of Asuka's character, as "it", meaning her problems, actually was her fault. This is why she succumbs and even a "god sent" intervention cannot save her in the end. It's very clear.

When you say "Asuka does this, and Asuka does that", you have to realize, there's not a single scene in EoE you can show to where she does this. You're inserting too much fan fiction rather than interpreting and understanding what happened. Classic mistake nerds make.

Asuka was never at any one point mature, a good person or at all sane, her conclusion in the original ending is actually being confronted with that. Being given some "candy" in the form of mommy praising her doesn't change that at all, rather it makes it worse.

It did come out of nowhere, as her mother had numeorus chances of interfering earlier and didn't. It's not the problem, it's the fact that her mother interfering and essentially loading Asuka's head with information is not character development, it's a device.

Asuka being "placated" won't solve her problems, only maturing will, and this is why her reward is death, while Shinji and Rei's is redemption and liberation.

>tfw in the second iteration (rebuild) he's actually grown as a character and is even heroic of his own accord at times because of regret over destroying the world twice now
All the Rebuild haters need to kindly fuck off. This is how you create character arcs.

I'm interpreting her mother's intervention as Asuka's own thought processes. I suppose it's up for debate whether or not it was a spiritual intervention or an imagined mental one.

You're insane and delusional. The Rebuild series has since it's third installment become a testament to everything that's wrong with man and womenchildren.

Wait wait wait, hold the fuck up. Are you saying Rebuild is a sequel to Evangelion? I hadn't got round to watching it because i thought it was just a remake. Might have to expedite watching it.

This entire movie doesn't make sense, what the hell is it even about? I remember seeing it on toonami but I could barely remember anything.

All signs point to yes, it's a sequel. Lots of shit doesn't make sense if it was stand-alone. We MIGHT find out for sure if :|| ever comes out.

It's not up for debate, Asuka's mother is in the EVA, and personally reached out to Asuka from within the EVA.

Your interpretation is, without any doubt, wrong.

Sequel or not, the Rebuilds have glaring problems with it's characterization that only worsens when seen as a sequel to the original. Alone or in company, it's a failure as a story. It's otaku entertainment, and particularly disappointing since some of the original creators are involved.

What was the second time he destroyed the world? There was the third impact in EoE but what was the other one? I haven't watched Rebuild but is it really possible to interpret is as following EoE?

I imagine it was heavily censored on Toonami. Basically 2 parties are trying to start the third impact at the same time but neither win and instead Rei betrays Gendo and initiates it herself, and then she gives control of it over to Shinji. Shinji initially says that instrumentality should proceed but after it actually happens he realizes that it doesn't really solve anything so he reverses it.

>There are 4 separate "canons", all of them being real and a part of the multiverse of suffering that is Eva. In ALL of them Shinji has fucked over mankind, outdoing himself in how spectacularly he can kill everyone in each outing

And those are?
In NGE show, Earth gets destroyed and humanity by Gendo working with Seele, Ritsuko and Misato are the main accomplishes
Same in EoE

In rebuilds Earth and humanity get destroyed by Gendo again working with Ritsuko and Misato, this time Seele got fucked over before they cold make a move
This time main blame should be placed on Misato who being closest to Shinji did not tell him of the nature of Evas.

And ... those are the only timelines we saw so far. In none Shinji was in any way responsible for whats was going on, or had any clue as to whats going on.

It is one of the prevailing theories and if the final film is EoE levels of brilliant, then I can forgive the massive changes that 3.00 brought because it would've been for a purpose.

see

It's not really a prevailing theory, and claiming as such means you don't understand the point of sequel baiting at all.

The point is quite simply to create enough possibilities for fans to rave about what is essentially, a work with no substance. Rebuild is 99.9% speculation and fan masturbation, particularly after You can (not) Redo aired which killed any substance the series had.

Near-Third Impact at the end of 2.22.

There's already blood on the moon and the seas are already red (which occured in EoE) at the start of 1.11. Along with numerous other dialogues and smaller nuances that imply that Rebuild is not a reinterpretation, but the world literally rebuilt by Shinji after EoE.

why is it that an anime thread gets so much more actual discussion than any normal show would in this shithole?

>the creator of this actually thought he was right
jesus. imagine being this unknowingly cringe

Wait what? There's more than one ending? Sauce me up

How is the way Rei "defeated" Gendo, and Shinji achieving understanding and peace any different than Asuka realizing her mother (the source of her shortcomings as a person) was watching and protecting her? They're meaningful conclusions each handled in a different way, and each relating to their inhibitors as humans.

Asuka being protected from harm "out of nothing" is no different than Rei's spontaneous decision to not assist Gendo in achieving instrumentality, but Shinji instead. Any "plot device" you can come up with for Asuka has strict and apparent parallels for any other character that receives any sort of character development, ie, Shinji's realization of the nature of human interaction in instrumentality. You're coming up with reasons as to why Asuka's development is less meaningful and more "melodramatic" than Rei and Shinji's without realizing the very characters you cite as having "satisfying" conclusions are more or less the same in terms of storytelling.

I think a lot of neglected kids would, if they had the decision resting on their shoulders, just let the whole world burn.

>Discussing Rebuilds
>Ever

>Rei's spontaneous decision to not assist Gendo in achieving instrumentality
I've actually read some stuff about this. In the show Rei (which is actually the second incarnation of Rei) basically loves Gendo and will do whatever he wants. But she dies in one of the fights and so is reincarnated again, being the third Rei, and it shows her at one point trying to (and I think actually succeeding) break Gendo's glasses which shows that she doesn't share the feelings for Gendo like Rei 2 had. So instead of helping Gendo she helps Shinji and gives control of the third impact to him.

There's End of Evangelion, and then there's the rebuild series, which is a series of movies that are either a reboot or a continuation from after End of Evangelion. There's also the ending to the TV series if you take that as a separate thing rather than taking place at the same time as EoE.

thats not how a 'canon' works Sup Forumsutist.

72 / 10 / 39 / 3
>Eva is the best stuff weeb can offer to the world

Insofar as what material we have now (the 3 Rebuild films), yes it is all speculation and sequel-baiting.

However, one does not read the first two Lord of the Rings books, stop at the final and then complain at the lack of story consistency and closure. Granted this is a somewhat poor analogy as each LotR book can stand on its own compared to the Rebuild films and even the necessary dichotomy between the original series and EoE.

Again, I have confidence (or maybe it's just wishful thinking, Anno could just troll us all) that :|| will bring the Rebuild series full circle and closure to the Evangelion franchise as a whole.

>How is the way Rei "defeated" Gendo, and Shinji achieving understanding and peace any different than Asuka realizing her mother (the source of her shortcomings as a person) was watching and protecting her?

Because they were effected through the character's own actions and thought processes. There is an actual change and choice to act here that isn't affected by magic fairy inside a robot.

That is, Rei's decision was not spontaneous because since the start, the series had been building distrust between her and Gendo, she goes from a loyal daughter figure to a skeptical and disillusioned cult follower who realizes the leader has been deceiving her.

For Shinji, he has steadily been improving and deteriorating over the course of the series, and it is the confrontation and discourse he has with Rei in EoTV and EoE that makes him understand and finally choose, based on the experiences he's had with the others in the past, he wants to see them again.

Their character development spans the entire series towards this climax, but for Asuka, the only climax is her own death, the previous awakening not being related to her character at all. There are no scenes detailing Asuka's "development", at best there's 20% of a "before/after" image.

Good explanation

Oh no. We've been moved to Sup Forums. They're just gonna talk about waifus for the rest of the fucking thread.

This is something you point out yourself, of course., but your argument would be true if we were pointing out that it lacked closure, but we aren't. Rebuild as is lacks more or less everything but flashy light shows, and what little of consistency and substance it had went to the dogs with the third movie.

Putting it this way, you are only feigning confidence because you're an EVA-nerd who currently likes the current "meta" of character treatment and positioning. That's the problem with Rebuild, it's for otaku and hardened nerds only, it gave up being something with the third.

This scene was fantastic. Seeing Asuka overcome her grief and compose herself when it mattered the most, only to instantly get wrecked was one of the best, most bittersweet moments in the entire show. Why do nerds shit on her character so hard?

>Became interested in this again.
>the mod moves it to Sup Forums
well it was fun

If you can only have development from personal actions then they really wrote themselves into a corner with Asuka because she's basically catatonic and can't do anything because of this until her mother showing herself affects her. I don't entirely agree with you on that though but the way she was at that point there wasn't anything she could do herself.

check out maybe the move did something weird.

SHINJI

IS

BEST

GIRL

How can you say it gave up with there being another film left? Universal narrative strokes are a crisis and depression in act 2 to lead the way for overcoming it in act 3. Clearly 3.33 was act 2.

They didn't write themselves into a corner. Asuka was always a failure. She's supposed to represent the negative side of the character spectrum, she is self-delusion personified. Her character "ending" is that she can't persevere on her own, hence her character ending effectively at ep.22, with four episodes left to go, and in EoE is kept in the movie solely as a plot device. This was the point, consider Asuka and Rei dragging Shinji in opposite directions, self delusion for Asuka and self realization for Rei. It's not necesserily bad, it's not just the sort of development mentioned earlier.

Objectively speaking, 3.33 is the third act (hence the numbering), and it was a stinker at that.

3.33 is not depression, it's joy and celebration for otaku especially who had desired this kind of movie. It's a destruction of established character substance, replacing it with very fan-pandering versions of the characters - this cannot be repaired by the final installment. The current thematic narrative and angling, which is hyperfocused on blame&shame while forgetting that the previously and currently established setting doesn't support it, meant that it was completely sunk as a serious work the minute 3.33 started.

I'm saying that Asuka was catatonic (in the series too, it wasn't made up for the movie) and not able to make any decisions on her own. You're saying that if you don't make decisions on your own then it isn't development. So yeah, if we take both these things as true then they wrote themselves into a corner. I don't really agree with character development needing to be done through your own personal actions though. If something happens outside of you that still affects you (like Asuka's mom talking to her and comforting her) I think that is able to be just as much development as if you did something yourself.

it's a joke. calm your titties

Asuka has been completely and utterly BTFO.

Asukafags are 100% on suicide watch.

Stupid gay thread.

Post cute Shinjis.

Hi Kaworu

Speaking of Kowaru, what the fuck was his deal anyway?

Objectively speaking, the title is not 3.33 (Act 3).

I hope you're just joining the thread because if you're a Sup Forums native and can't understand thematic and narrative conventions then I can't really help you. 1.11 and 2.22 were Act 1, or a Prologue and Act 1 if that helps you understand things. 3.33 is The Empire Strikes Back. It's the dark middle where everything seems hopeless, brought on by the game-changing climax of Act 1, which in this case was the semi-new event of Near-Third Impact (which is actually just a loose retelling of EoE's broad strokes).

Why do you think they wrote themselves into a corner? It's the same as in NGE. Asuka doesn't get over herself there either. Again this is completely the point of the original. Asuka represents escapism, Rei represents confronting reality through their actions, the "yin and yang" of Eva which pulls Shinji in either direction. This is precisely why Rei makes continually small improvements which leads to her liberation through her own agency, while Asuka becomes like you say, catatonic and at the mercy of everyone else. So when Rei liberates herself, she passes her victory onto Shinji, who then passes it onto mankind (including Asuka), and the story is complete.

I don't think this is writing itself in a corner, it's good writing.

Don't start this.

>If something happens outside of you that still affects you (like Asuka's mom talking to her and comforting her) I think that is able to be just as much development as if you did something yourself.

There isn't anything else to say here than that's wrong. Character development is in itself the process of a character developing, otherwise every story or character would only consist of the first and final chapter. Does that make sense?

It doesn't have to be. In a series of x acts, the third act is well, the third.

You coming up with comparative arguments, like comparing Evangelion to Star Wars only shows that you haven't actually analyzed Evangelion itself. The comparison itself is wrong as well, because "The Empire Strikes Back" didn't radically change everything from the previous installment, nor was it logically inconsistent with itself either. It didn't rely on overt fan-pandering, but logically and reasonably continued the story.

Please consider 3.33 itself, like I did earlier in this post:

Fujoshi/Fundoshi pandering character, made for delusional people.

>wonder why there is so much good discussion
>thread was moved here from another board
Well that answers that
Sup Forums?