Was Fate/Zero a mistake?

Was Fate/Zero a mistake?

No, it wasn't. My boy, Gil-sama, had good moments in it.

JOBBER

Do we have to have Fate/Bait threads everyday?

This is the King of Britain

No, because it makes my boy Cu look good.

>yfw you keep reading and watching more Fate stuff and realize Zero is still beter than most

Your first son was a mistake.

>yfw you keep reading and watching more Fate stuff and realize F/SN is still the best

...

yes because it exposed how shitty the rest of the fate franchise is by being the best installation despite being a complete standalone and independent plot

It's the best of the franchise so no.

It made me think Saber was an interesting character.
Then I watched UBW and she was completely different and somewhat disappointing.

UBW isn't her route to begin with.

Go play the VN or watch the 2006 adaptation if you want focus on Saber.

I want animeonlies to leave.

I've since read the VN to see what I was missing and I still think Zero Saber is best.

The whole franchise was a mistake. Who thought making King Arthur and Frankenstein's monster generic moe waifus was a good idea? What a retarded decision.

I was you to go suck an old, sagging vagina.

Stay Night is Good Civilization
Zero is Bad Civilization

>I want people that didn't waste their time reading Nasus VN shit to leave.

Go home.

Fate makes $2 million a day. Financially, it was an AMAZING decision to turn King Arthur into a girl.

She wouldn't call FSN to be good civilization, you shitter.

>What a retarded decision.

Indeed

FSN faggots get so butthurt any time someome points out that Zero is the better of the two stories in many different ways.

Mostly it's because Zerotoddlers fail to provide any arguments as to why it's better.

They ain't watching the fate series for saber bruh.
If that were the case then the fate route wouldn't be seen as weak and the camelot shit wouldn't be widely unknown and unloved.

no, every other fate spinoff was though

The characters are alot more interesting to watch.
I got bored reading the VN for the most part. Heaven's Feel was pretty good so I'm hoping the movies turn out okay.

>Mostly it's because Zerotoddlers fail to provide any arguments as to why it's better.
It handled the themes in f/sn better than f/sn did, while also giving the war more tension and creating an actual atmosphere of a battle royale. f/sn was basically a magic high school fantasy because half the time you forget that they're supposedly in a war.

>It handled the themes in f/sn better than f/sn did
fz has different themes to fsn and fsn theme isn't 'battle royale', you'd know that if you had actually read it

No, but everything else in the Fate franchise was, apart from Strange fake.

Zero is seinen, SN is shonen, you'll understand why Zero is superior when you get older.

There are maybe three genuinely interesting characters in Zero, excluding those already fleshed out in SN. And even those are outclassed by some of the SN cast.

And this is why Zero is better.
FSN was boring as fuck.

Fate Zero is was less complicated than Fate Stay Night, it's basically just an action show

>Literally "my mature anime for mature people such as myself"

>fz has different themes to fsn
No, they're both literally the same. The only difference is that Shirou was able to come to a conclusion.
>fsn theme isn't 'battle royale
I never said it was. I said that fz handled the holy grail war aspect better and made it more interesting than fsn.

> SN is shonen
Guess how I know that you're an animeonly?

It made the rest look like shit, so maybe.

Because you think that adding shitty sex scenes and awkward romances to a shonen makes it anything but a shonen with sex scenes?

FSN was never about the holy grail war, that doesn't make Zero overall better.

>No, they're both literally the same
fz is about the holy grail war, fsn is a story about shirou using the holy grail war as a background

Holy Grail War never was the focus of F/SN though. It provided the setting, but the story itself is about Shirou's ideals.

>FSN was never about the holy grail war
Neither was Zero. It's about one man's autism over making sacrifices to be a seigi-no-mikata. One came to terms with it, the other didn't.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Guess how I know that you don't have an argument.

>Neither was Zero
yes it was
it had an ensemble cast and was about basically everyone, kiritsugu may have been the 'main' character but his story was a side story to the holy grail war itself, which fsn is the other way around

I love it when Fatefags and Zerofags fight.

Imagine having the amazing worldbuilding of Zero only to follow up with the trainwreck that is Stay night. From a gritty and dark show to a weird power fantasy that tries to take it self seriously at one point, and then has random slice of life cooking scenes in the other.

It crashed harder than fastwheel's hotel.

>kiritsugu may have been the 'main' character but his story was a side story to the holy grail war itself, which fsn is the other way around
Wow user I didn't think of it like that. neat. I know both elements are there but it wasn't easily distinguishable. Zero was more focused on Kiritsugu in my opinion so I didn't feel that way.

Then I guess you just have bad taste? Zero Saber is pretty one note.
>Muh chivalry
>Muh honor
>Muh hipocrisy

You realize Zero was about manchildren who became adults without ever maturing, right?

better than being forced waifubait who still has those aspects, except for one more thing
>muh gluttony

kiritsugu's character development doesn't really happen until fs/n (even though he's dead)
fz is what it appears at face value, a story about the holy grail war, fs/n pretends to be about the grail war but it kind of subverts it and focuses on shirou's life and finding out that the grail war is a sham

Add in the fact that she hates Kiritsugu for his utilitarian ideals, while she herself used his logic her whole life.

it got me into reading the VN, so no

Saber is the most popular TM character by far. Nips don't have any problem with the Fate route. They loved DEEN.

>and the camelot shit wouldn't be widely unknown and unloved.

The Camelot chapter from FGO was the only one to get a stage play adaptation.

why did nasu make them genderbends anyway

Why is this a question? Cute girls sell.

The Holy Grail War isn't a War to begin with. It's a ritual that takes place mainly at night in order to keep it a secret, there is no need to cripple your daily life for the "war" if you're a master as that's something that will only bring suspicion for you.
>Seinen
>Shonen
Do you know what these words mean, user?

The entire cast of Zero has little depth and development. It pales in comparison to F/SN.

If you think so than you missed her whole story arc and character development.

>Imagine having the amazing worldbuilding of Zero
I don't know what you're smoking user, but Fate Zero is all about the characters, not the world. The main Fate series are pretty shit at worldbuilding. And Zero was a prequel to begin with; it was written with the expectation that it connects back to the original.

making King Arthur female was Takeuchi's Idea
also Nasu didn't write Apocrypha

at least that waifu bait had character development.

Zero Saber was just there to get bullied and to make nihilism and hedonism look cool.

"ayy Imao I can't believe you don't narcistically love yourself xDDD"

>It's a ritual that takes place mainly at night in order to keep it a secret, there is no need to cripple your daily life for the "war" if you're a master as that's something that will only bring suspicion for you.
most of the masters don't even know about this though

Type-moon was a mistake

Artoria is still better than any Western "KANG Arthoor" story that came out in the West in the last 2 decades

the sex scenes were done to boost sales. after that, typemoon didnt add any more h-scenes since it was doing so well and just opted to do the realta nua ones

I mean, Gilgamesh/Kirei relationship was fujobait. Rider/Waver was fujobait.

Does this means their relationships in Zero weren't good and interesting? Saber was born as waifubait but her character goes deeper than that. If her route was pure waifubait fulfillment it would end with her and Shirou staying together past the war.

Zero Saber simply makes no sense. It's a forced character made simply for the Urobuchi tier forced suffering.

It's pretty much a tacit agreement. They can't use magic bullshit in broad daylight because if they get exposed the whole Mage's Association will rain fire and brimstone on their asses. Hell, the whole premise of battle against Caster's tentacle monster hinges on that.

Fate/Extra and everything after was the mistake.

But she's still zero saber in essence despite her character development
>>Muh chivalry
>>Muh honor
>>Muh hipocrisy

Do you see them going all out to fight in the day? Exposing themselves and their identities to kill an enemy master?

The only Fate/ that depicts a war is Apo. Even Zero doesn't.

Zero fans can call F/SN waifubait, but that is where waifubait got real.

No, Saber was someone who used the same methods Kiritsugu used to achieve her goals. She was not some honor bound fool with a gigantic chivalry boner. She was pragmatic and cold.

Her character was changed for the sake of Urobuchi tier forced suffering.

don't forget that F/SN was written first,user

Yeah, she's still a honorable knight in essence, but better than the inconsistent mess that she was in Zero. Your point?

Apo is fucking retarded since the servants don't even attempt to hide their identities.

But in Fate/Zero, everyone already knows everyone else (except the serial killer and his Servant, and you see how that turned out), so there was no point in pretending to go about a normal daily life. At most, the masters only cared about the secrecy rule because as mages, it is crucial that magecraft not be exposed to the general public.

>>Muh chivalry

never addressed in stay night
cuts down Archer the moment she sees him and immediately tries to kill a defenseless Rin

>>Muh honor

she uses an invisible sword lol
Cu Chulainn even calls her a coward for it

>>Muh hipocrisy

Saber was pretty consistent in her views in stay night.

the whole "Saber was a shit king, who ruined everything" meme came from Zero

Because of the scale of the War, such thing simply isn't possible logistic wise. You have two of each servant, you need to make the audience known them by name especially now that servants will start dropping like flies.

>cuts down Archer the moment she sees him and immediately tries to kill a defenseless Rin
Not to mention trying to cut down Caster while Taiga was a hostage. Saber was the closest to Kiritsugu aside from Shirou's dark paths.

>never addressed in stay night
>cuts down Archer the moment she sees him and immediately tries to kill a defenseless Rin
She literally just defended her Master in his own home from an eager Lancer mere moments before this. Plus, she was heavily injured and couldn't afford to play the honor card.

What the fuck am I reading?
I have seen critics about F/Z but this one is the most far-reaching of them. The example about Kiritsugu is idiotic: he gets told that the thing is an object of legend, magical, all-mighty and can make any wish come true, sought by many magus who know about and can do things that mere mortals cannot, so of course he will seek to make said thing his own.
If you knew magic existed, had seen it work against the very laws of physics as we know them, wouldn't you believe that there's powerful reality-warping artifact somewhere that can do anything? Wouldn't you try to get it for your own purpose after being forced through a life of morally-questionable choices?

I don't even need to start on the others. This picture is retarded. Fatefags should stop trying to sound more clever than they are, because it makes them look even more retarded.

And yes, Zero is superior to Fate Stay Kitchen. Deal with it.

>If you knew magic existed, had seen it work against the very laws of physics as we know them, wouldn't you believe that there's powerful reality-warping artifact somewhere that can do anything
No because magic in the Nasuverse doesn't work like that and you should no better.

>If you knew magic existed, had seen it work against the very laws of physics as we know them, wouldn't you believe that there's powerful reality-warping artifact somewhere that can do anything?
No. Any sane person would think for a moment how said artifact would make a wish like "world peace" come to fruition. At least from the fact that such artifact even in the world of mages sounds too good to be true.

The original VN is longer than the Bible, one of the most poorly paced, repetitive works of fiction I've personally ever encountered.

Honestly it's fair to say Zero is better solely based off the fact that it's less of a chore to read

know better*

It's one of the best thing to come out of the fate franchise.

What Zero fans don't understand was that the SN war was an anomaly. Especially compared with the other wars that were already pretty fucking strange

>First war
The servants they summoned weren't enough to fill the grail so they decide to advertise the ritual as a war for the Holy Grail to attract fools
>Second war
Total bloodshed, there were no rules so people just killed each other and the grail was never activated.
>Third War
Einzbern cheated by summoning Avenger, fucking up the grail. The grail was destroyed before it could manifest.
>Fourth war
Each family had 60 years to prepare and shit still wasn't resolved.
>Fifth war
Each family only had 10 years to prepare, because of the recent timeframe, major players like Kotomine and Zouken dictated the state of the ritual depending on the route.

*Grand Order

Literally the only good entry in the franchise.

> The example about Kiritsugu is idiotic:

Kotomine himself BTFOs Kerry hard
Kerry being a naive manchild is the point of the whole story lol


> And yes, Zero is superior to Fate Stay Kitchen. Deal with it.


secondaries spouting memes, how shocking

>literally told "This magic thing will save the world" & ACTUALLY trusted it
I don't know about you but even in a world where sufficiently inbred descendants of assassin clans rape century old vampires & the vampire thinks its her fault, that shit's dumb. There's a large gap between Abra Kadabra, summoning historical figures & "WORLD PEACE FOREVER".

doesn't change the fact that she went straight towards archer even though she could have grabbed shirou and retreat

>lol
>reddit spacing
It keeps happening, why are primaries so pathetic?

user... wouldn't you really suspect some sketchy ritual on the Far east that offered a great treat but supposedly never reached full completion even after 3 editions over the course of 180 years?

Even fucking Shirou saw the bullshit for what it was right ar the start.

>I'll deflect his argument with the remark about his text formatting, that'll get him.

>If you knew magic existed, had seen it work against the very laws of physics as we know them, wouldn't you believe that there's powerful reality-warping artifact somewhere that can do anything?
Think about what it means to wish for world peace for one damn second. Practically the only thing aside from Angra's kill everyone aside from a few who wouldn't fight is to take away free will.

Kiritsugu is supposed to be a manchild (see: usage of "boku"). The entire point is that he didn't stop to think about it and was naive enough to actually believe something like that was possible.