Here is the infamous interview of Toriyama from Saikyou; Jump #3, 2014 where he basically said Goku doesn't give a shit about his family:
Jump: >Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?
Toriyama: >Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that [Vegeta holds his family and wife dear]. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.
>Normally, Saiyans don’t have much of a notion of romance or marriage, and apart from the royal family of Vegeta, they aren’t particular about blood-relationships. Being in among all that, I suppose you could say that the pair of Bardock and Gine were those rare Saiyans who were joined by a bond other than for reproductive purposes. Since then we had such shocking reveals like Goku talking shit about Gohan for not being at the tournament (behind his back no less... like a hoe), not knowing what kissing is, doesn't care that Black killed his family in the manga, and wasn't even around for his unborn children (Goten is understandable but Gohan...?!).
Notice how in Z Goku appears to care a lot for Gohan (at least until the Buu saga, where he barely gives Goten any attention). When Raditz kidnaps Gohan, Goku flips his shit. When Cell shows up, Goku acts fatherly and tries to get Gohan to believe in himself.
I honestly believe that part of why Super is so shit is because Toriyama, after nearly 20 years of not writing Dragonball, developed a distorted view of his own characters and then applied it as if it were the case all along. If you were to show him Z and the original Dragonball, his reaction would probably be "That's not Goku [raughs]".
Blue balls are what happens when you get aroused without release. Black balls are what happens when your balls are cut off from your bloodstream and develop necrosis.
This makes a lot of sense actually. Even in the original series in the second arc Goku not only befriends an android begging for mercy finding him a better home but also uses his grandfather's that revolved around the entirety of fighting the Red Ribbon army just to wish someone he just met father back to life. In fact when the series was trying to movie on from Goku (after cell sacrifice) he states a lot of the bad things that happen to earth happen because he attracts so much attention and decides to give up his life to ensure a better life for everyone >LMAO Goku is hiring a hitman onto himself
Luke Sanders
So Tori basically let the memeing to get to his head?
Jackson Ward
Toriyama made Super because he was buttblasted after Evolution movie, one thing that bothered him is that in the movie the whole dragonball universe is a backstory and it all boils down to good vs evil, so he wants to make goku "grey area".
Ofc if you ask the fans that is probably the last thing they noticed in Evolution but whatever,.
Jonathan Phillips
>wasn't even around for his unborn children (Goten is understandable but Gohan...?!)
This doesn't even make any goddamn sense. There was nothing to suggest that during the timeskip between Demon Jr and Raditz that Goku was doing anything other than being a family man.
Toriyama really fucking hates Goku for some reason and Super has basically been a 90 episode character assassination.
James Garcia
Only if the guy was stronger than him
Juan Nelson
Has there been a DB character with more character development than Vegeta?
Ayden King
What the fuck is so bad about Goku being a good person? I get that he's not the Superman analog he was in the Funimation dub but god damn. In Super he's oblivious at best, uncaring at worst.
Brayden White
Yo Son Goku and friends came out before Evolution though
Mason Diaz
its not even Toriyama its the new guy putting retarded shit like him never kissing his wife
Chase Bell
Honestly, I feel like Vegeta is no better off than Goku. Vegeta's character arc was finished in the Buu saga when he finally admitted that he loves his family and that he'll never be as good as Goku, so there's really nothing left for him to do in Super other than be quasi-grumpy and give Goku someone to train with.
Jonathan Long
Piccolo is arguable but it's probably Vegeta
Juan Rivera
Dragonball ended after Buu >When GT gives Vegeta better characterization than something made by the creator
Sebastian Myers
Perhaps he's upset that people think of Goku as a super do-gooder. He's a heroic character but people didn't note the things about him that made him interesting. Oda got DB well, Luffy is probably the most Goku-esque protagonist in shonen.
Colton Green
Nope.
Ethan Flores
>Toriyama, after nearly 20 years of not writing Dragonball, developed a distorted view of his own characters and then applied it as if it were the case all along.
This reminds me of that shitty Green Hornet movie. It played into every lazy stereotype about the source material.
>HEY GUYS ISN'T IT HILARIOUS THAT KATO DOES ALL THE WORK LMAO
Jace Hernandez
The universe in the original Dragonball manga was defined by good and evil morality. Only Vegeta and Piccolo stood out as morally grey because they transitioned from villain to hero over the course of the story.
Noah Cook
Goku was going to fucking offer Chichi to Old Kai if it wasn't for the fact that her breasts are sagging and that she was going to yell at him over it. That's why he offered Bulma instead.
Grayson Watson
SasuSaku
Jaxson Diaz
But I mean he literally his even against Buu when he wouldn't through the Spirit Bomb because Vegeta was in the way. Although that could be filler or whatever
Jayden Thomas
Bulma had character development to go with her change in fashion.
Gohan also transitioned from sheltered kid to well adjusted adult who fight to protect his family and loved ones.
Jaxson Reed
Yes, it means he's losing at something. People also forget Goku loathes betrayal, though he would probably hate himself instead of Chi-Chi.
This is all moot because Chi-Chi would never do that, you scum.
Christian Sanchez
>one thing that bothered him is that [...] it all boils down to good vs evil A pretty weird complaint coming from the guy who made one of Goku's ultimate techniques a literal ball of goodness that would only harm the evil and leave the pure of heart unharmed.
He really is getting senile.
What new guy? That was in both the Toyotaro manga and the Toei anime. If both share this plotpoint, it's almost certainly the idea of Toriyama.
Isaiah Stewart
I meant a lot of people didn't take Goku as a whole so certain aspects of the character are being pushed hard. Which isn't much better, mind you.
David Jackson
You're overestimating Goku's understanding of romantic relationships and how much he cares about it.
James Collins
*literally is. Even against Buu
That probably makes it clearer
Evan Adams
>implying Goku even knows how to use a video camera
Anthony Cox
>yfw DBZ Abridged is more canon than Funi's dub Dubfags BTFO. I knew all along that Goku was a shitty husband and a shitty dad.
Nolan Kelly
He'd get bored and wish he was training or fighting a strong opponent.
Jeremiah Foster
He'd probaly get mad if she cooked food for another guy. That's all he really gets out of Chi chi.
Andrew Allen
Nothing, Goku has always been portrayed as a good person who let his pride as a martial artist and love for fighting override his good judgment, which puts the universe at risk. Super's problem is that it doesn't give Goku a moment where he's portrayed as angry, vengeful, and conflicted, just like when he spared Freeza in Namek.
Charles Russell
Gohan
Angel Diaz
You're underestimating how much Goku values relationships and overplaying the "Goku is just a selfish retard" maymay. Even a moron like Goku could tell Chi-Chi of all people messing with other men means the relationship has taken an incredible turn. And it wouldn't be hard to convince him to try to fix it in his bumbling, good hearted way.
Isaiah Price
Nah.
Isaac Taylor
That's so fucking retard, considering Goku always saw himself as an Earthling. Being carefree and addicted to training doesn't mean he never have a shit about his family. I hate how modern Toei pretty much made Goku the cliché dumb shonen MC.
Julian Sullivan
>Even a moron like Goku could tell Chi-Chi of all people messing with other men means the relationship has taken an incredible turn Z Goku, maybe. Super Goku hasn't even figured out that spouses are supposed to kiss.
Blake James
>how much Goku values relationships and overplaying the "Goku is just a selfish retard" maymay. Not even talking about that. I'm saying Goku doesn't give a flying fuck about romantic relationships. He sees Chichi (his whole family actually) as one of his friends.
Anthony Nelson
I mean, you could argue that he gave more of a shit about Gohan when he was a kid. Now he's a grown man with his own family who can fend for himself, and that may be why he doesn't really give a shit anymore.
Logan Ward
I fucking hate all this retcon bullshit.
Jonathan Moore
That doesn't give him an excuse for Goten
Logan Wright
>Super's problem is that it doesn't give Goku a moment where he's portrayed as angry, vengeful, and conflicted, just like when he spared Freeza in Namek.
We can't have moments like this anymore, user. It would give the impression that Goku is a three dimensional character and not an uncaring simpleton.
Anthony White
Found it. Goku is saying she's "flat-chested" in this translation but in the Japanese version he says her breasts are sagging.
Jordan Gutierrez
>HURR DURR WHAT'S A KISS
I think Toriyama may have confused this Goku with the Goku that's 30 years older and has two children.
Julian Diaz
Goku was portrayed as a loving husband and doting parent way before Funi did the dub. The original anime gave additional scenes showing that he does care about his loved ones. Gohan especially acted a little like goku and is shown to wear the same Gi as him as early as the Saiyan Saga, and more eager to go off on wild adventures than study. It came at the expense of making Chi Chi look irrational and too strict.
Michael Reed
Perfectly true, but I guess he just forgot Goten existed. Like everyone else.
Luis Roberts
Toriyama's Alzheimer aside, can you seriously picture Goku french kissing someone and doing romantic shit to his wife?
Robert Martin
>Villian who killed your best friend+race/fathers and probably billions is on the ground defeated >you give him energy out of pity >stills looks sad after "putting him down" even when he was attacked with the energy he gave out of the kindness Freeza never showed
Pretty sad
Nolan Sanders
>The original anime So, non canon stuff?
Nathan Miller
Blackballing means basically the same as blacklisting.
Goku was just saying that to appease Vegeta. We can see that's not true.
I can imagine him performing a wicked 69 with her. That should be at least something to fall back on with how Goku is written in Super.
Gavin Morales
>We can see that's not true. Have you ever seen Chichi with her bare breasts showing in the anime or manga?
Blake Anderson
He seems to like spending time with Goten on the filler episodes
Hudson Gray
The franchise was handled with the subtlety of a Saturn rocket launching.
Goku and Bulma always made more sense, and maybe a more tight and smaller cast of characters would be better.
Nolan Mitchell
This scene happened after Goku thoroughly beat Freiza physically and mentally. The ass kicking in that saga was so thorough that the emperor has nam-tier flashbacks whenever another Super Saiyan shows up.
Jonathan Torres
>I can imagine him performing a wicked 69 with her
Ryder Taylor
Don't need to. Her bust is visible even with the baggy clothes she wears.
Jason Carter
Why is Bulma such a chestlet?
David Stewart
No, the animators rarely draw Chi Chi attractive after Dragonball. The only exception is the Dead Zone move where she's noticeably drawn with full lips and full thighs.
Nicholas Thomas
She's a genius, if she wanted big breasts she'd have them.
Liam Morales
I'm talking about the sagging. There's no way to tell if she's sagging or not.
Cameron Garcia
He also knows Bulma is hotter than his shit wife.
Jace Young
Toriyama's art is beautiful. I want him back.
Adam Wilson
That was like 11 years late reply or something when he old kai
Sebastian Cook
Nope. He thinks she has sagging breasts. Goku's own thoughts on his wife's chest are dubious because he was possibly saying that to get Chi Chi out of the deal.
Daniel Rogers
...
Juan Carter
I'd like to point out that this is Goku's reaction to his son being kidnapped.
This is his reaction to his friends being KILLED. He's pissed, but he's not flying off the handle running in half-cocked.
Wouldn't you say that there's a noticeable difference here, and that maybe Goku has a different level of affection for his son?
Jason Hall
...
Carson Diaz
Weird isn't it, I didn't like GT at all and never finished it, but I really did like Dadgeta and Chadten
Asher Hughes
>watched Dragon Ball and DBZ >think Goku and Chichi are a cute couple >ship it >spend the next 15 years getting cucked by how much Toriyama hates both of them just kill me end the suffering
Jordan Butler
He's still a valid rival if it were'nt for plot armor and writers always sucking Goku's dick while constantly making it bigger and bigger with different colored hair each time.
Cooper Bell
>Since then DRAGON BALL SUPER IS NON CANON DIE IN HELL Fuck off fan fiction retard
Jose Foster
Goku.Stop this character "arc" meme
Christopher Morgan
YES GOY FEAST ON CORPORATE COCK
Lucas Collins
We are talking about the same guy who gave some of his own energy to escape to the guy who genocided his entire race and killed his best friend in front of his own eyes.
Brody Russell
Your fault for choosing such a shitty couple.
Angel Flores
>Goku lends his wife to Freezer and Bills so she can give birth to a strong opponent
Matthew Green
Cry more, GTpedro.
Asher Scott
>implying she hasn't
wasn't goku dead when goten was conceived?
Henry Ortiz
Goku was more based than I remembered. It seems Toei forgot about it too...
Jeremiah Mitchell
Pretty much this
Isaiah Nguyen
This characterization of Goku is bullshit and anyone who defends it by saying that's how he's always been is full of it.
Christopher Myers
>memes, and buzzwords Fuck off plebian
Anthony Gonzalez
Im begging Toei or Toriyama or whoever the hell is in charge to stop making Goku look so savage. He has good qualities but they seem so hellbent on ignoring them
Anthony Perez
Its kinda weird. He was always shown to be very caring and compassionate DBZ, even to his enemies. Not sure why they try to make him a psychopath whithout emotions in Super.
Christian Adams
"appease" is not the right word. I would say tease, it would not appease me if someone talked about my wife like that and they're excuse was they're wife's not hot enough.
John Hernandez
So true
Kayden Butler
Yeah, Goku is a fucking dick.
Zachary Long
He's only "savage" like that in the anime, so it's Toei's fault. They have a very bad habit of flanderizing characters.
Gavin Reyes
>doesn't care that Black killed his family in the manga There was no mention about his family getting killed in the manga, speedreader.
