...so I guess putting armed guards in schools doesn't work?

...so I guess putting armed guards in schools doesn't work?
Everyone is getting so concerned with the idea of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun that they literally don't realize they'd be handing firearms to scared people or people who've only ever fired at a shooting range and would sit their pants in an actual firefight.

reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-deputy/armed-deputy-at-florida-school-resigns-after-failing-to-engage-shooter-idUSKCN1G62X3


If we can't trust paid guards to solo a school shooter and try to defend the kids, what makes you think the average middle school art teacher would have the balls to protect the class?

Other urls found in this thread:

nytimes.com/2018/02/22/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html
youtube.com/watch?v=rI01qKAqYts
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

give guns to every student

fpbp

>...so I guess putting armed guards in schools doesn't work?
What are you talking about? He did exactly what the gungrabbers wanted. No more guns in school.

The gungrabbers should be bowing before him for not escalating the situation by taking his firearm into the building and confronting the shooter.

You're so right!
Fuck the Constitution, ban guns now!
Only rural and suburbans retards voted for Trump

>give guns to every student

He didn't do what they wanted. He had a gun on school grounds.
And you're attacking a strawman.
You seem upset.

Kill yourself

yah maybe 50% of them would puss-out but that's why you arm up 10-25% of the teachers. there's always that crazy shop teacher, gym dude, wrestling coach, janitor. plus it's mostly supposed to act as a deterrent

but honestly I'm not sure if trump is serious or calling for this is just his way of saying fuck you to the libs

>I guess putting armed guards in schools doesn't work?

It didn't work cause he FAILED to do his job.

>He didn't do what they wanted. He had a gun on school grounds.
But he didn't go into the building where the shooting was taking place.
He didn't bring more guns into the happening.

>And you're attacking a strawman.
But aren't the gungrabbers always saying that "more guns aren't the solution?"

Now the gungrabbers are pissed because a cop with a gun didn't go into the building and shoot the mass shooter.

Can't have it both ways...

> we don't need guns because we have police
> cop refuses to go in and stop gunman letting people die

I think the argument is that teachers who do own guns and are comfortable with them should be allowed to bring them to school. It's not that guns should be issued to teachers, or that we should have some kind of boot camp for teachers, but that teachers who are responsible gun owners should be allowed to have a gun on school grounds.

My mother's a middle school teacher, and she's not allowed to have any weapon at all, even pepper spray. They do drills where they practice hiding under desks, but she can't bring a taser or some pepper spray without getting fired.

Actually he is protected under Warren vs District of Columbia. More than likely he won't get penalized.

How convenient that this comes out. . . Only AFTER trump proposes armed body guards at schools

I have never seen in my entire life a guard in any mall or convenience store to actually "protect" people from armed criminals, the police also. They act tough in times of peace, and scour in times of war. That's what happens when you live for status and power and not for higher purposes.

Actually he did his job exactly. Cops aren't supposed to die for you and they are allowed to stand their ground and fear for their life as necessary. Their job is to enforce the law and that alone.

>Liveleak explodes with videos of school shootouts

Who said anyone wanted it both ways?
Who said to rely on the police?

This. Issuing them is dumb. Just allow teachers with handguns to conceal carry them normally.

Gun grabbers like to use its okay to take guns because we have the police excuse.

How many teachers do you think have CC? How many teachers with CC do you think would actually be reliable in a firefight instead of target practice at a gun range?

The cop was scared?? Say it ain't so!

There's nothing more dangerous than a scared LEO.

Wasn't it a plumber who shot the Texas gunman a few months ago? Didn't he save lives that day?

The goal isn't winning firefights, weirdo, it's avoiding them.

yep, most sro are pussies, never had to face serious threats in their life.

Even a woman can get a shot on target if they get the drop on a shooter. If he comes at you you shoot him. Of course no one wants to go into a firefight and potentially die. But if its your life v his then you know people are going to fight back if they can

And what if it were possible that both arguments on either extreme were wrong? Police can't be expected to respond in time or put their lives on the line, and it's a dumbass idea to realistically expect teachers with CC to solo a school shooter at a moments notice and for there to be no incidents of the dumber ones among them with CC to eventually have a misfire in a classroom, or have their guns stolen by the local nogs.

That would be a logistical nightmare. We could just have a government program to shoot and kill all of the students thus circumventing the possibilities of school shootings.

>...so I guess putting armed guards in schools doesn't work?
y not, the chinese do it
some even have guards outside with modern versions of medieval mancatchers

Just because you and some rent a cop don't have balls to pull the trigger doesn't mean others will have the same problems

You aren't going to avoid a firefight when the other side is someone that wants to die and take other people out with them. Arming teachers is not a deterrent for the bullied kid looking for revenge via suicide and homicide.
If the school shooter was concerned with racking up kills alone, they'd shoot from *outside* the school. Probably when the bell rings.

Can != will

Government strips the school officials of their liberty to arm themselves. Then government fails to do their job of stopping the mass murder of children.

So, you hallucinate cowardice in the citizenry.

In fact, the heroic gym teacher who doubles as security guard was disarmed by the sociopathic overlords in government you so trust. He stood in front of children as a shield while his body absorbed the rifle rounds. He's dead now.

Say thank you, ingrate.

Give coaches guns.

I don't know if him shielding a kid means he'd be able to return fire. I hope he would have, but I can't say for certain that he could have.

>he was disarmed
How can you be disarmed if you didn't have a gun in the first place?

nytimes.com/2018/02/22/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html

>FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The only armed sheriff’s deputy at a Florida high school where 17 people were killed took cover outside rather than charging into the building when the massacre began, the Broward County sheriff said on Thursday. The sheriff also acknowledged that his office received 23 calls related to the suspect going back a decade, including one last year that said he was collecting knives and guns, but may not have adequately followed up.
>The deputy, Scot Peterson, resigned on Thursday after being suspended without pay after Sheriff Scott Israel reviewed surveillance video.
>“He never went in,” Sheriff Israel said in a news conference. He said the video showed Deputy Peterson doing “nothing.”

If they really just want to die, they'd shoot up a police station. But okay, pretend that you're a homicidal / suicidal guy who wants to take a bunch of people with him. Would you go to a place with a big sign on the door saying "THIS IS A TOBACCO AND GUN FREE ZONE" or a place with a big sign saying "ARMED GUARDS BEYOND THIS DOOR."

Going back to my mother being a middle school teacher, when they do shooter drills, the kids hide; she grabs a broom; and hopes that nobody opens the door. Switch that "GUN FREE ZONE" sticker on her door to a sticker advertising armed safety training, and somebody interested in killing 20 middle schoolers isn't going to open the door. People go for soft targets. Home security systems don't defend against burglars as much as keep them from breaking in in the first place.

i dont honestly care what happens in the schools

>police aren't expected to put their lives on the line
But that is the expectation, it's what society expects of them. If they can't do it then they shouldn't be a cop

>If they really just want to die, they'd shoot up a police station.
Except theyd be attacking randoms instead of people they know from school

But okay, pretend that you're a homicidal / suicidal guy who wants to take a bunch of people with him.
Here comes the strawman

Would you go to a place with a big sign on the door saying "THIS IS A TOBACCO AND GUN FREE ZONE" or a place with a big sign saying "ARMED GUARDS BEYOND THIS DOOR."
Depends? Am I military? Because shootings happen at military bases with disgruntled employees, if you didn't know. And a military base aint a gun free zone.

>Going back to my mother being a middle school teacher, when they do shooter drills, the kids hide; she grabs a broom; and hopes that nobody opens the door. Switch that "GUN FREE ZONE" sticker on her door to a sticker advertising armed safety training, and somebody interested in killing 20 middle schoolers isn't going to open the door. People go for soft targets. Home security systems don't defend against burglars as much as keep them from breaking in in the first place.
While I agree the hiding drills are stupid, i cant say for certain that your mom is going to solo a school shooter either. Knock on wood, I pray that your mother would be able to return fire in a firefight if things came to it, but I'm also not gonna hold my breath.

This is a situation which requires a more complex answer than giving the good guys guns.

Society can expect it all they want, the courts say otherwise.

Thanks for clarifying that cops are useless scared little pussies that don't have to do their job so it's in the best interest for people to carry that way they can protect themselves

>If we can't trust paid guards to solo a school shooter and try to defend the kids, what makes you think the average middle school art teacher would have the balls to protect the class?

Police have no obligation to protect you. The paid guard would be putting their life in jeopardy by engaging the shooter

An armed teacher's life is already in jeopardy in the above situation, the only way to save themselves is to engage.

One person's life is in danger if they engage, the other's life is in danger if they don't engage. Simple

Yeah, I'm not talking about anybody getting into a firefight with a shooter. I just think that the knowledge that behind the door is a bunch of kids and a woman with no weapon more dangerous than a dull stick makes a hypothetical shooter a lot more likely to open her door than if he knew that behind that door was a person with a gun. At the least, it'd make him think twice about opening it, and he'd most likely just go somewhere else.

If somebody's determined to kill a bunch of people, they're going to do it. Putting a gun behind every closed door makes shooting up a school seem like a whole lot worse an idea. So much, in fact, that they'd probably just go to a park or aquarium or something. Not too many people try to stick up gun stores.

It is in the best interests of people to carry to protect themselves, but that doesn't mean the teacher is going to protect the student. They will be just as cowardly as the LEO if not more so. They will also likely have less training.

Unironically the best pro guns solution would probably be to arm the students if not for the fact that the little shits are braindead and would likely end up shooting each other while fighting over stolen chicken nuggets, scuffed shoes, or bullying each other at lunch. And that problem gets even worse if we're talking arming middleschoolers or elementary schoolers.

Or you know change it so cops have to engage and not be pussies and hide.

Best solution is deport marxist authoritarians then we will never have another problem with guns.

Until you realize these people are indiscriminately picking schools to shoot. They're attacking places they live near, attend, or used to attend. They likely won't give a fuck if a teacher is armed, so how "dangerous a situation is behind a door" won't deter them. If things actually went that way, we would never hear stories about shootings at military bases.
It doesn't matter how "worse of an idea" you make it. And we also likely don't hear stories about people sticking up gun stores because those stores are sparsely populated and these kind of people doing these shootings seem to be looking for revenge or a chance to take out large swaths of people. Gun stores are sparsely populated at any given moment.
Police have no obligation to protect us, and neither do the teachers. I can see the argument if we are talking about a teacher defending themselves against a shooter that's standing in the doorway, but what about shooters that are engaging students in the hallways? Or shooting at students in the classroom? Is the teachers duty to immediately return fire, or let students die until they can properly take cover? Once their room is secure, is it their duty to step out of their classroom and protect people in the hallway? Or is the problem still not solved and those kids are just going to die?

Its real simple make it so police are obligated to protect us. Not that hard to change that rule.

There are plenty of self defense shooting videos coming out every day proving people who have the chance to fight will fight. Infact sometimes they're too eager to defend themselves that they put themselves in more danger shooting the perp instead of just complying and letting them take their phone wallet whatever. People will fight back when the choice is to live or die.

Kek. This made me think of the “lawful good, neutral good, etc.” chart.

This would fall under chaotic good.

>we would never hear stories about shootings at military bases.

You're not allowed to carry a gun on military bases. People aren't walking around with service pistols; they're unarmed. It seems pretty silly that military officers, at least, aren't trusted to CC on base, but they aren't.

You and I both know that will never happen. Agencies have fought tooth and nail for decades to make it so they aren't obligated to die on behalf of citizens, especially in the ghettos, lol. Leaving the job description at simple enforcement of the law handles that problem.
Plus the larger problem after such a law is enforced is the following: where are we going to actually find people who are willing to die for a policeman's salary to in order protect people instead of just being simple dogs that enforce the law? It's noble to say we have a lot of people who'd do it, but I don't know that we actually have enough good people with that kind of heart out there.

Its not about shooters being deterred, its about saving lives in the moment. If the coach had a gun instead of shielding students from bullets, he could've ended the threat there and no more people would have to die. But you liberals dont want results, you just wanna feel like you did something.

The issue is Warren v DC. Cops aren't actually legally required to do jack shit to protect you so you get stuff like a fucking Sheriff's Deputy tucking tail and running while allowing kids to get slaughtered

>OPs form of argument
Like a bloody child, holy shit. There's one thing asking questions then repeating yourself over ans over again refuse to take in to proportion what people are suggesting. This is the kind of person the word debate is lost on.

I want Y 'all to take a look at Rhodesia and how they replied to terrorism. That's how america should reply to shooters.

Current 2018 US Death Toll: Abortion - 137,080 Tobacco - 43,934 Obesity - 38,537 Medical Errors - 31,565 Alcohol - 12,553 Suicide - 5,369 Drunk Driving - 4,244 Poisoning - 3,987 Drug Abuse - 3,139 Murder By People With Guns - 1,443 Murder By Actual Guns - 0

This is the epitome of the left scream and cry like a child until they get attention while ignoring solutions.

Oh, so his standing down in the line of duty goes way further back than the incident at hand.

There are guns at the front gates, gun storage spread across most bases, and military can CC on base as of 2016. Soldiers have always been allowed to bring weapons on base and keep them in an armory which they have access to.

So, no user. CC not being allowed prior to 2016 is not the missing deterrent, considering we had a military base shooting last week.

/thread

So you know for sure the coach would have returned fire successfully, and have saved lives instead of taking cover while students died so he could get a good shot? Because you realize that if he was out in the open taking bullets to protect kids instead of taking cover, that he also wouldn't have been able to return fire even if he was carrying at the moment?

So what's the problem? What new points am I refusing to take in?

Almost makes one think we shouldn't revere cops as heroes and that we should take violent crime statistics broken down by race with a grain of salt.

Well, if I recall, the two worst shootings were 2009 and 2014, before CC. I don't think an SUV ramming the fence and getting immediately apprehended after a brief exchange of gunfire is a "military base shooting". How much better could that have possibly gone?

>random black guy crosses street
I'm going to shoot this fuck!
>school shooting happening
FUCK I NEED TO HIDE!

>how much better could that have possibly gone
CC actually working as a deterrent for the crime being committed, as suggested in this thread. Instead, we still saw a sicko attacking the base. Luckily they put him down, but the problem is that he wasn't deterred. This means this isn't a problem of some sick guy attacking what he thinks is an easy target, like people ITT suggest. It's a problem of sick fucks attacking people or communities they have a personal problem with regardless of their odds of success.

Police are under no obligation to help you idiot, there have been numerous court cases on the subject matter. The only person who is going to save you is you.

We need Russia's help with live fire training. Using a training method like in the video security guard would fear nothing and be attuned to distractions while operating.

youtube.com/watch?v=rI01qKAqYts

I unironically believe this

>"Now I was a pretty good shot with a rifle.... but it's a lot harder to aim when there's bullets coming back the other way! and the Japs weren't a bad shot"
t. my father's sister's husband's father

Yeah, it totally would have been better if the coward didn't have a gun... somehow...

It probably would have been better in the grand scheme - tax money saved.

Good guy with a gun is how it's worked since guns were invented before that a good guy with a sword , it's not even possible that it wouldn't work otherwise no country on earth would exist

Yes, believe it or not sheeple, the way we are going to keep guns out of school is by bringing them in school.

...wait..

They would be as reliable as the shooter.

You soys are always afraid of something or other.

We don't know for sure, but generally, when someone is confronted by another gun, they are either A) stopped by the gun or B) take their own life.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

WATCH, SHARE AND TAKE ACTION

https:// youtu.be/p9R5SrRgB1Q

Leader Technologies miller act could instantly KILL the Sillicon Valley tech mafia that hates freedom of speech and BRING FORTH the free press.

THIS IS NOT A DRILL, pick up your twatter accounts, your 4chins and START SPREADING THAT. Tweet at POTUS en mass and this could be a MASSIVE WIN.

Do it, for God and country!!!!

Just because one sentinel pussed out doesn't mean they all do, or even the majority. Usually, officers in his situation go in and assist.