There is no human action that doesn't serve the purpose of self interest

Including altruistic ones.

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making music?

You want people to appreciate your percieved self-genius

Yes do you have a point or are you just going to spout egotism all day

Saving a child when you know you will die in it's place?

>Holds door for open so people can walk through easier
>The only self interest is that I feel good making someones day slightly better
Saying self interest seems misleading, because it makes people think of something in status or material terms, but emotional self interest is often the motivation instead.

not entirely true, most musicians make music and put it out for free, just because they like to make music. No care if people like it or not.

Human intention is hilariously misguided however. Getting caught up in altruistic effort can lead to a quickly enveloping hell.

You make music because it makes you happy; it is in you self interest.

Self pleasuring behavior.

If saving the life is more important than your own survival, then -at least while your alive, saving the child is in your self interest.

I will have to kill a lot of Jews to ensure the future of humanity. I personally don't care for killing or humanity.

>makes people think of something in status or material terms,


That is because people dont understand how to use the english language.

"self interest" simply refers to all things that are I benefit from; that are in my interest.

You do feel a sense of pleasure when you help another, which is to say you benefit from it.

If it wasnt in your interest - you wouldnt do it.

All deliberate action is done for the purpose of what one thinks is in the best interest of their DNA. You can't avoid this truth, but to say "self-interest" is not true. A father would sacrifice his life for his family.

>just because they like to make music

>they

>themself

>self


Self interest.

Someone just read The Selfish Gene.

>A father would sacrifice his life for his family.


How is doing so -not- in his self interest?

Ayn rand.

Virtue of selfishness.

Then you are simply saying that behind every action there is a reason. Feeling good about helping others, or a fulfilling their sense of duty, or whatever it is. In that case a agree with you, but what point are you trying to make?

People never think about their DNA. Instinct may guide you to make decisions based on DNA, but then the question is whether humans are capable of ignoring instinct. Obviously different people make different decisions in the same situations, all of which were probably done in self interest. Those people just had different ideas of what their current self interest was. If it was all about preserving DNA, I would assume they would all make the same decision.

This guy eats red pills for breakfast.

Absolutely Irrefutable.

True

Even the charitable stuff we do is satisfy ourselves

Whether they are capable of 'ignoring' instinct would also be determined by instinct.
At the end there is only a multitude of instincts competing for dominance within man, your consciousness merely taking the backseat in this organic vehicle.

there is no point, OP just read some stirner and had some retarded epiphany, truth is he is a fag and should fuck off

I don't have social media and volunteer every weekend at a nursery home.
There's plenty of people I know who do that just because.

you're wrong

OK, I would call those impulses not instincts. Instincts are the impulses that have evolved to be stronger because they lead to reproduction. Other competing impulses are not necessarily in the interest of DNA, until they prove themselves to be effective. They are the result of existing DNA, but not necessarily effective at reproducing it. Sometimes the less "effective" impulse wins, and DNA may be ignored.

>Saving a child when you know you will die in it's place?

You are genetically programmed to care for children, you are just acting your programming.

>making music?
Signalling your abilities to potential mates.

>Saving a child when you know you will die in it's place?
Two potential evolutionary traits - to signal that you have virtue and to save the offsprings in your community to help propagate your genes.

>I don't have social media and volunteer every weekend at a nursery home.
Your evolutionary trait to ensure your survival by helping others taken to the extreme in the information age where that trait is combined with your desire to signal your virtues to potential mates.

>you're wrong
>that you think you're correct.
Did you just make that statement in self-interest?

That distinction doesn't exist in nature because what selects for fitness lies outside the organism. They are only "stronger" as long as they are adapted to their environment, which may change at any moment. But DNA is never ignored because whatever is 'ignoring' it is part of it.

The same point that Ayn Rand was attempting to red pill the masses with.

That the highest virtue one can achieve is to live for ones ownself.

The dominate morality is and has been, that the highest moral achievement is to give to others, regardless of your own desires.

It is this justification that has lead -directly and indirectly, to all evil in human history.

The point is that it is not only OK, but moral to not give a fuck.

You dont owe anybody anything.

Self interest is when you do something only for your own good, in your own interest. However, personal responsibility is doing the right thing every time, whether it benefits you or not.

That's right. Desire puts you in a wheel, similarly desire not to desire puts you in the same wheel. That being said, you can rely more on self interest when interacting with people than you can on trust or love.

Incase it wasn't clear.

>However, personal responsibility is doing the right thing every time, whether it benefits you or not.
The right thing maximizes group rewards which in turn results in a higher personal reward than when you act purely in your benefit. It's also a self-interest trait.

How can any system that values an item purely based on the supply and demand for it be possibly correct? Food is more valuable than iphones no matter how much food we produce and how few iphones there are. Supply and demand based prices purely help feed human addictions more than help humans make good decisions.

>However, personal responsibility is doing the right thing every time, whether it benefits you or not.

Who decides what is right?

Why does another get to decide that what is good for them is "right", and what is good for me isnt?

How am I "Personally responsible" for another person?

Acting for a group, can benefit the individual.

However, it is done so, for the individuals own self interest over and above the group.

You cannot gain through sacrifice.

>There is no human action that doesn't serve the purpose of self interest

This is the thought that made led me to becoming areligious.

So when people act selflessly they're acting in their own self interest because they think they will be rewarded with something?
So when people are selflessly they're being selfish? What if they react selflessly without though? From our perspective we could probably list reasons why they were only acting in their own self-interest but if he took a second more to think the outcome could have been tragic, for example.

>babbys first philosophical idea
cute

Isn't gaining the whole point of sacrifice? To fulfill are purpose or acquire something?

because you will always find a little thing to jerfoff on like a spastic retard. if i have to slices of pizza and i give 1 to my gf i gain nothing. in before ''urr durr shes gonna like you more''

ive been with my gf for 13 years, giving her that piece of pizza or not will change absolutely nothing

>evolution
lol

I just read that, its materialist trash. Just another atheist attempting to justify her greed and literal cucking by creating straw men of her opponents and attacking those rather than the actual beliefs.

Free will is an illusion

If acting selflessly is actually fulfilling our own self interests because, from what I understand, OP is saying it's hardcoded in our DNA, then we are nothing but slaves to our instincts, which if that was the case everybody would act the same and be extremely predictable. You also wouldn't have things like priests who abstain from sex or monks who go vegetarian.

every thing you do you do, you do because you think its good,
but you only have your own self as a reference
say you give everything you own to the poor,

you only did that cause you think its good

what you may have lost in material wealth,

you have gained in intrinsic self esteem, spiritual wellness, and or smugness.

you did it cause you think it is good.

that is good for you.

even if you dive on a grenade,
it is because you feel better dying then watch your friends die.

you cannot escape selfishness cause you are a self.

>There is no human action that doesn't serve the purpose of self interest
>Including altruistic ones.

All right, I'll bite.

I am paying my parents' bills, buy them food and send them on vacations, I am also supporting my brother and his daughter financially. I make pretty good money, but I give a lot of it to my family (parents, brother and niece) which often puts me in a situation where, besides basic living, I don't have enough for my own indulgences.

Explain how this is in my own self-interest, cunt.

There is a certain amount of choices you can make at any time. Choosing is free will.

you do it cause you derive pleasure or self worth from your family.

the fact you mention them as "your family" is evidence of intrinsic basis,

if you were selfless, then all families will be equal to your family, even squrriels

any kind of value judgement is from a frame reference hence selfish ness,

...

reciprocated love and affection

>your family is not your family

Please don't post ever again

he did it cause he created the world, and he gained pleasure from fucking with humans.
and although he begged for the cup to be taken , but still went through with it,
that is an evidence of judgement between value calls,

in the end he evaluated that humanity was worth more to him, and so he did it.

still selfish.

b-but muh universe knew what you chose

LOL

the fact that you're distracting yourself from my actual point is sign of physcological disphoria from the epikness of my black pillz

what a simplistic retarded view. it's clear those that have nothing to die for are not really alive, they just regurgitate other's trash.

>if you were selfless, then all families will be equal to your family, even squrriels

That makes sense actually. But so, would you say it's possible to act selflessly because that's what we were talking about. I'm sure many of us are nowhere near "good" but OP implies selflessness is non existent, in humans anyway.

Pretty much this. I think the disconnect is that it shouldn't be called selfish. He is supportive and loyal to his family, I wouldn't categorize this as selfish, though we could use more of his "selfishness" in society.

Speaking of strawmen...

she wasnt an atheist.

She simply believed that there is no way to know, therefore - no reason to live as though you can.

That aside, if you cannot accurately describe and refute her beliefs, then dont bother replying.

selflessness is non existent in general, as there are no experiences that are not from a self frame,

the exception would be during a lsd trip and you decide to jump out the window cause you dont see the difference between living and dying.

Can anyone on Sup Forums prove him wrong?

it's impossible

death proves him wrong

Good point.

I should have specified:

To the extent that your sacrifice is not voluntary, then you cannot gain.

that is to say, the sun can be called selfless, that is it is not a self,

but nothing you can do is selfless because you are a self,

you can try to be impartial, but thats only because of your selfish idea that impartiality is good, If you believe that it is good mostly for society, then it is because you have a selfish idea that society is good,

society fucks over alot of thing bruh, mostly plants and fauna.

and if you believe society is bad, that is only your selfish belief that enviroment is good.
why ? because it benifts YOU and your kids.

There's no need to prove him wrong. Nothing he says is bad. You can still act selflessly just be aware of the positive repercussions your actions will have on yourself, don't take them for granted or actively abstain from them.

I agree.
Need more question situations to make sure that I am right or op.

you cannot act selflessly, any act you perform has already been decided to be the most valuable act from you, monetary rewards are sought after because of their physcological rewards, monetary rewards are abstained from because of their physcological rewards.

how so?

You're right every single thing I do in life is for my own benefit. That being said I will still act selflessly because if I go around saying I'm gonna act selfishly people won't understand what the fuck I mean because they never read this thread and I'll have to argue semantics with them for half an hour or tell them to go fuck themselves depending on what I feel like doing because fuck me right

>it's clear those that have nothing to die for are not really alive

>those that have nothing to die for

>nothing to die for

> die for

Value?

If I value something enough to defend it to the hilt and beyond..........would it not then be in my self interest to do so?

Dont be so emotional. Try to understand another's position before you jerk your knee out of socket...

>black pillzzZZzz
More like a regular old red pillzzZZzz.

nah, the point is the understand that an arguement against the left cannot be made,
if they call you a racist, they are literally calling you a "white male"

this the the point of the pills.

even if you kill yourself you are still selfish under their philosophical frame.

taht is white boy wanted to feel good so much he killz him self.

there is always a point to the pillz

i get as dark as any

when u talk about morality and call others evil, while all the while completely full of yourself, you have a retard flag on your forehead.

Knowing that you do for others in order to receive benefit for yourself first is called, enlightened self-interest. Nothing wrong with that. Better to give than to receive yada yada.

In Greek philosophy, the Cynics (capital C) believed the path to virtue was in the understand that all human behavior is motivated first by self-interest.

>Explain how this is in my own self-interest, cunt.
Humans who took care of their parents and children survived and reproduced more than those who didn't. You're acting according to your evolutionary programming, which in turn was selected to help you survive.

still no dark matter, gravity is electric, all references to bro brogan imply cognitive disability

god i hate the nihilistic nu-pol

you should kys if you think that way

no fucking shit nigger its called virtue signaling welcome to 2015 cutting edge dialectic, you might wanna catch up on all the political theory developments you've obviously been missing

>death proves him wrong
Senescence is an evolutionary trait that allows complex life forms to propagate. Those who don't die, keep consuming resources while producing children. Eventually, everyone kills each other for resources, or a genetic mutation which allows senescence is developed.

The self is an illusion, trace where the phenomena you call your "self" came from and note that it didn't arise at your birth. Children raised without human contact don't even develop language or become what we consider real humans, let alone develop the advanced thoughts you as a fully developed human take for granted as your own. Altruism wouldn't have evolved if it didn't work. Human biological programming represents this through things like human willingness to sacrifice the flesh. Destroying the illusion of the self is acceptable as long as it's in service of the real self that goes on around you, the information that makes you up including your genes, memes and environment.

This is similar to how at least some buddhists frame the idea of reincarnation, enlightenment is something like stepping outside your illusory self to go beyond being just a human creature. I love myself which means I love all life and I'm willing to sacrifice what's required for it to continue.
youtube.com/watch?v=mXmz605GAnc

Christ embodies all this, if you have faith that Christs living body is eternal you are Christs living body and proof that He lives. He showed us the way to enlightenment through action.

so death proves him wrong

I say it is not nihilistic.
It is just the way it is.

Sooo, you also watched the Friends episode where Joey tells Phoebe that there is no selfless good deed and she tries to find one.

and i don't distribute my music, all the music i've made has been for the sake of making something i wanted to be able listen to, you can't find my shit anywhere

Evolution and selecting beneficial traits has nothing to do with self-interest. It might be beneficial for me, but if it is not a conscious decision then there is no self-interest involved.

Checkmate.

>i want

*i wanted

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._Price

>so death proves him wrong
Ok, I'll bite. How does it prove me wrong?

>while all the while completely full of yourself, you have a retard flag on your forehead.

Well, complex ideas often do appear retarded to retards...

>Evolution and selecting beneficial traits has nothing to do with self-interest.
Ok, then what does it have to do with?
>It might be beneficial for me, but if it is not a conscious decision then there is no self-interest involved.
Define conscious.
>Checkmate.
>Being this eager to show how retarded you are.
Kys.