Don't really care about gun politics, but...
Would you risk yourself in this situation assuming you were the cop? would you survive with a pistol, against a kid with an ar-15? Would you be able to take down this kid?
Keep in mind that the body armor the cop was wearing probably wasn't rated for rifle bullets.
Other urls found in this thread:
nytimes.com
nationalpost.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
>Would you risk yourself in this situation assuming you were the cop?
I feel like alot of people give an answer to this question, without thinking about the exact circumstances. We all like to think we're John Rambo, in any situation, but me personally, I don't really know how I would act in this particular situation. I can tell you one thing for certain though, if I was trapped in the school and flight was not an option, if I had a firearm, I would probably use it.
Cops in general would rather wait and clean up the mess, than risk their lives for ungrateful plebs/nigs. Can you blame them?
Doesn't matter.They get paid to take this risk.If they are unwilling, they should get a different job. That is all.
This dumbass thinks .223 is more powerful than .45
Everyone laugh at him. 223 cant penetrate even level 1 body armor you dumb sack of shit.
The power differential between rifle and pistol would have been irrelevant at these ranges. A pistol had more than enough power to kill/injure/stop, even at 25 yards perhaps even a bit more than that.
In all likelihood, the second Cruz began hearing gunshots other than his own probably would have stopped him in his tracks, even if the rounds were missing him, as he would have shifted from kill mode to hide/take cover mode.
This cops inaction is directly responsible for at least some of these deaths. Not all, but some.
>.223 out of a rifle being stopped by body armor
Have you virgins ever even shot a gun?
Hmmmmmmm
Donuts or boolets
Boolets or pension......
Donuts
Didn't a black kid take 5 bullets to stop Nick from getting into the classroom?
Fuck these cops that aren't willing to risk their lives.
My big concern with regards to effectively stopping the shooting would be being not wanting the shooter to gain my firearm and my ammunition should I fail, presuming that he is poorly supplied like most school shooters.
Let's say I move in and get taken down, but I do empty my magazine. If I'm using a typical cop sidearm and carry what a cop typically does, I'll have two full mags in my belt, so 30 more rounds. If there are multiple armed officers and one shooter, then that's less of a concern.
It's also possible that taking a defensive position to block his approach would be the better bet to save lives while I wait for backup.
Moving in to take down an active shooter without someone covering you and only a sidearm is pretty risky proposition. Admittedly, cowardice is unacceptable in police, but they should be tactful. This guy in Florida was a coward though.
I’d like to think I’m not a fucking coward
I’d rather die a hero than be shamed and the villain
The real and only question is, would you let unarmed kids face a shooter alone and die like meat shield with no hope or chance?
If you have a gun, and you are the only person that can take the attention away from the kids with no way of defending themselves. You have to say your prayer, go and and give them a chance. Everyone dies. Damn, take the once chance in your life to be a national hero.
are you retarded? you'd better not be.
>Would you risk yourself in this situation assuming you were the cop?
Yes, because it seems like the odds are greatly in your favor in this type of scenario. You know where the shooter is (because of his gunshots), but he has no idea where you are. If you set yourself up properly, you should be able to ambush and kill him.
I'd take him on and probably win. I don't place the value of my life over that of a school full of kids. Everyone has a screwy few of combat to me. Probably because they watch too much John Wick. No you don't try to go head on with him. You would probably die for nothing. The trick is to try to find tactical advantages such as being able to hide in cover until he reloads, flanking him or finding a time when he may be distracted. Then you drop him.
This. Hearing gunfire and the threat of getting shot would be enough to pressure a shooter to seek cover and stop the assault. Then it is just pinning them down and waiting for the cavalry.
>Would you risk yourself in this situation assuming you were the cop?
I'd like to think so. I mean if you do manage to drop the shooter you can do the talk circuit tour/write a book and be set for life.
It's your fucking job as a police officer to lay your life down on the line in any and all effort to protect the innocent. Do I think a police officer who should have ample training to take down some drugged up 19 year old with a rifle with his pistol? You're damn right I do. If you can't handle what it takes to be a cop, don't be a cop. I don't want a bunch of fucking soyboy cowards upholding the law.
What a stupid fucking thread.
NO it’s not the police have no obligation to protect you only to enforce the law
They have no legal obligation.
They certainly do have a moral obligation if they are in a position to help the helpless and people are counting on them.
>left is a typical .233 caliber bullet, 55gr
>right is a typical .45 ACP bullet, 230gr
.223 travels about 3,000 m/s, and .45 ACP about 1,000 m/s.
Muzzle energy is 300 to 600 ft-lbs for .45 ACP, and 1,000 to 1,500 ft-lbs for .223.
Basically you're a retard.
I'm a retard too apparently
I like to think I would but its always speculation
No I wouldn't. Policemen are just average people doing some shitty job because they couldn't find anything better. Also, the police has legally no obligation to help people, nothing can be held against that cop.
Why would you take the risk of being killed by going in alone in a building, not knowing where to go, who to look for, how many suspects, etc?
The guy waited outside for backup and report on the situation, like they are trained to do.
Look at France, when muzzies were shooting up the Bataclan, it took 2 WHOLE HOURS for elite groups to intervene after the police had locked up the place. THEY WAITED TWO FULL HOURS.
That's why statists are such retards, saying "hurr you don't need a gun for protection, the state is here to protect you", except it isn't. Everyone's security is their own responsability, period.
KE = 1/2 mv^2
>Would you risk yourself in this situation assuming you were the cop? would you survive with a pistol, against a kid with an ar-15? Would you be able to take down this kid?
I'd take down lots of kids for fun and blame it on the shooter
The police in all of these situations have proven to be cowards. They take cover and wait for their tactical units to arrive.
I'd shoot the fuck out of him wtf kind of question is this? Only no aim yellow belly pussies think otherwise
Wut? A 223 is more powerful than a .45. By a lot.
I'd definitely go in. Police shouldn't be afraid of anything and be prepared to lay down their lives for others. Big problem in my country is the break down of law and order, cops being pussys is a huge part of this.
Cops have no obligation to protect anyone, as decided by the Supreme Court.
Which case?
Lots of cruisers have ARs in the trunk in case there is an incident requiring something more than a pistol. Just keep police with rifle qualifications nearby schools.
This
Yes you have a shot at making it and taking the guy out. Kid had no real training and was also a psychotic shit stain. All you need to do is find a way to get behind him quickly and quietly and put one in the back of his head problem solved.
This is not as easy at it sounds but it could have been done the bigger issue nobody fucking even tried.
BAAAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
AMERICUNTS AND THEIR GUNS
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAA
>MUH GREATEST ARMY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD
>MUH RICHEST NATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD
>TRAINED GUARDS CAN'T EVEN CONFRONT A TEENAGER
>EXPECT 8TH GRADE ENGLISH TEACHER MRS.SMITH TO DO IT FOR THEM
Have to fortify their schools like Alcatraz....
BAAAWHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OH THE SUPREME STUPIDITY
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
big time bait
Cops in the ghetto run into buildings to save ghetto savages from being shot by other ghetto savages, then get sued by another ghetto savage for excessive force etc in a never ending cycle.
High school kids on the other hand are savage, rude know it all pieces of shit. And this school seems to be filled with the smarmy fucks.
So my answer is no, that resouce officer was probably tired of their shit
It’s not the cops job to stop a shooter.
Thats the job of special operations police
The cops just try to secure the area, the special operations do the hunting
A coach took bullets without a gun or a vest to protect kids.
The cop is a coward and its why he resigned. Its why the Sheriff released the statement he did. This highlights the final and most visceral failure in a long line of governmental failures, and its why youre seeing more support for arming teachers than banning guns.
I guarantee you if one of those ROTC kids or the coach had access to a firearm, lives would have been saved.
Yes.
With the right pistol such as pictured I can put the shots where I want.
Probably. He doesn't have armor and his gun is a carbine, not a rifle.
Why should i? Stupid little liberal shits.
Police are just people, they aren't super heroes.
They are not required to sacrifice themselves to save others. People think oh the police will protect me. They rarely do.
I was in a bank, and robbers came in with guns. Police officer was at the teller next to me. Bad guys walked away with a ton of cash. Police did nothing.
"Wait for backup" they say
"Don't report crimes on campus, or we lose federal funds for being a safe school" they say
If i was in my mid 50s and a bunch of teens and coaches (in their early 30s) were taking bullets while I sat outside, I don't think I'd ever be able to look at myself un the mirror again.
This POS cop did 5 years on the road and 25 in the school. Which means he got that gig when being a school resource officer was a cake job. He's always been a coward.
the 223 is much faster. basically i can shoot u with a 223 and u can shoot me with the 45.
i can dodge your bullet and u cant dodge mine
>some emotionally distraught kid against me and my standard issue
ez
Yea dumbass. His weapon has nothing to do with yours. Terrorfag is shooting indiscriminately. You have the advantage in that situation.
.45 ACP is terrible at going through armor.
>.556
step it up to a proper round like .308
The cheap surplus "green tip" is steel core and will shred most vests. Learn something about a subject before you make sure everyone knows how uneducated you are.
But what if the shooter knows the building layout and you don't?
Spoken like an omega chai walla.
Go get raped with an iron rod on a bus.
>voluntary teacher CC
>armed grannies
pick one
I would go in and die or live as a hero.
Learn what muzzle energy is and try again :)
/thread
and the question was irrelevant anyway
if you aren't willing to do the job, don't sign up for it
it's not as if the thought just never occurred to him
Is taking a handgun to a rifle fight ideal? No. But, within the confines of a building, barring armor, you're just as capable. Notice I said "fight". This ain't the OK Corral starring at each other down a hallway. Life gets scary when it turns into a two-way shooting range. Zip a few rounds past that moron's head, and now he has something to think about other than shooting children. That's it. It isn't about killing the guy (great if you can). It's about poking a stick into the bicycle spokes of his OODA loop. It's about putting some fear into him. It's about derailing his intent, until the calvary arrives. Most of these cowards stop the moment they're confronted, or they off themselves.
If you can smoke his ass with 5 in the face, all the better. If not, just fuck up his plan.
> would you survive with a pistol, against a kid with an ar-15?
Yea see you shoot the kid with the ar-15. That's how it works. You use your pistol and you shoot him. Is this complicated? Now if he shoots you first then you're fucked.
But if you shoot him first he's fucked.
Understand? You realize 9mm kills rather good with hollow points right?
I swear to God liberals are scaring me with the stupidity at this point.
Back in the late 70s when I was a kid,I remember seeing a news segment on police training. The reporter was being taken on a tour of the facilities, and one stop was a shooting gallery using video of various felons that responded to a light gun. The reporter tried out the simulation,and given the option of when to shoot. One target was a smiling 8 year old boy in a cowboy outfit holding a gun. The reporter hesitated,and the kid fired. You're Dead,said the officer giving the tour. That gun was real. He shot you dead. The reporter was incredulous, having to shoot a kid. Sometimes you have to make that call,was the reply.
If the cop would have intervened a shot Cruz...he probably would face a lawsuit for discrimination or protests by the Hispanic community.
Can't blame him.
Realistically I’m not totally sure what I would do
I am very sure I would be terrified but in that moment, knowing I could be saving many lives, feeling the adrenaline and the heart pounding, I would like to think I would charge in.
I have felt this kind of fear before, the moments between action and inaction, and realistically it’s hard to say which side would win depending on the circumstance.
I wouldn’t just charge him straight on but definitely try to surprise him. I can already imagine the sick lurching in my stomach as I moved towards the doors to face my opponent.
Would be a very exilerating experience to say the least
Of course I would. Most cops would and do enter hot zones frequently. A well trained PO has the skill set/tactical advantage over an idiot with a rifle. Rifles are more accurate at a distance and penetrate armor (needle vs. hammer) but won't make up for skills. They offer no advantage in a confined space like a hallway or classroom. A couple well placed rounds is all it would take. Buildings generally offer (relatively) safe approach avenues around corners, doors, etc. Shithead wasn't a good shooter - just firing at soft targets. Unfortunately, the cop wasn't a cop either. Just a guy milking the job.
.308 goes through shooter, through wall, through 3 students
12 gauge is safer for the students lives. wont go through walls and hit innocents
There are three options to this
>Die a hero
>Become a hero by ending the rampage
>Be a coward and live with the constant question of "What if i did something". Have to move as your friends, neighbors and former coworkers all sneer at you with disgust. Drink yourself to try to stop wondering what if. Not get another job since you are a confirmed untrustworthy coward.
Ill take my chances with the first two options.
I’d be slightly more scared of being marked a coward than the actual shooter.
Honestly it really does seem like these people are trained by COD in how bullet hits work
“He has the bigger gun so he has to win, his bullets hurt more” or some shit seems to be the mindset
In real life, it doesn’t fucking matter what kind of gun you have (as long as it’s not tiny) as long as you make the first shot you’re gonna win
>trained by COD
OH! It's video game mindset. Oh....shit.
Yes this makes total sense. Nice call.
I'm going to slam my face into my desk now.
I would take the bullet for the chance to stop someone killing another.
There is no noteworthy advantage to having a carbine over a pistol when you are going to be engaging in CQB. In fact there's an argument to be made you're better off with the handgun in a confined space packed with furniture and other shit getting in your way.
>hurr durr mag size
99% of the time the fight is over long before that presents as a factor. If it does become a factor, it means there is reason enough the other guy is missing you that you'll have room and time to reload.
at least he could have sneaked into the building. i mean ... fire a few shots (out of a window) and hide.
could have distracted the shooter / put him out of kill-mode.
>But what if the shooter knows the building layout and you don't?
You just take it more slowly, I guess. You have to remember that you aren't being hunted by the shooter, you are hunting him. The shooter is occupied with other things.
>don't really know how I would act in this particular situation.
If you trained for it, you could do it, reading the rest of your post. Police academy when?
>Cops in general would rather wait and clean up the mess
Bullshit
>This cops inaction is directly responsible for at least some of these deaths. Not all, but some.
This.
>They have no legal obligation.
Bullshit
all you really need to do is shoot at the kid and hes at least on guard and thinks hes pinned.
This happened in Canadas parliament and the cop dove on the ground and jumper around a corner and shot the guy...
Thats how it's done.
After seeing movement by the Library doors, they heard a loud gunshot. As they moved forward, there were more shots and Barrett says he felt the percussion and shockwave of a bullet going past him.
Zehaf-Bibeau did not appear to know Vickers was there and the distraction provided by the RCMP officers allowed the Sergeant-at-Arms to break cover and fall to the floor as he was shooting at Zehaf-Bibeau.
Its the difference in training in the end.
You can’t take it slowly in this situation. Chances are he started in a classroom. How long does it really take a kid to move from one to the next and kill 5 more kids?
The only way to do this would be to charge in, take your corners carefully, and hope to fucking god you see him first so you can put him down with a few good shots. There’s no time to be careful. There’s no time to be safe, there’s no time to minimize risks, the point is to try and save as many people as possible and that requires an extremely fast response
Typically this response would be faster if multiple people with guns were already inside IE teachers
>Policemen are just average people doing some shitty job because they couldn't find anything better.
Bullshit
>The supreme Court ruled that its okay for cops to be cowards.
kek.
Not bullshit. Cops are niggers. Only tough when there's a bunch of them or when they're harassing citizens.
>I'd definitely go in. Police shouldn't be afraid of anything and be prepared to lay down their lives for others.
True Story, good lad
...
>Cops in the ghetto run into buildings to save ghetto savages from being shot by other ghetto savages
Over a quarter century of this lifestyle, love it.
I'd go.
The shooter isn't expecting resistance. If you play it right and sneak up on him, you should get your clip off before he knows your there.
I'm surprised the cop didn't have an ego trip at this scenario. It seems like easy heroism.
>It’s not the cops job to stop a shooter.
>Thats the job of special operations police
>The cops just try to secure the area, the special operations do the hunting
Bullshit.
Engage early, distract, take the shot.
A cop should... security guard.. mmm not so much
It’s almost like there’s a concerted government effort to break down law and order so intelligent people will be scared to have kids while we keep funneling money to welfare families that have 10 kids regardless of what’s happening in the world
>police officer joins forces with school shooter to kill the bullies
fund it
...
Not if it's a school with mostly jewish students no
It's his job.
Warren v. District of Columbia
That cop was with the deep state who organized the shooting. He knew exactly what's going on and was only there to keep cave.
>If you can smoke his ass with 5 in the face, all the better. If not, just fuck up his plan.
This
A security guard is different than an actual cop. A cop works for and has the full authority of the US government behind him.
For him to be a coward is an affront to the entire United States
LEO here.
I honnestly don't know how I would react and overcome stress. This is an extremely stressful situation, and we all know that the stress makes you lose a good deal of your fine motor skills and gives you tunnel effect. Maybe I'd have the good reaction, maybe i'd get fucking shot. I try to practice shooting a lot, but who knows if I'll be up to the task. For example, the BAC team (basically a lesser SWAT that still patrols) who responded to the Charlie Hebdo terror attack missed the Kouachi brothers at 15 yards despite a good training and selection.
Keep in mind that the cops who responds wants to live, a mass shooter absolutly doesn't care, and doesn't have to care to the safety of his surroundings either.
AMA while I'm at it
I'm with the cop, fuck them kids.