Is there any Sup Forums artist who can draw better than Akira Toriyama in his prime?

Is there any Sup Forums artist who can draw better than Akira Toriyama in his prime?

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Toriyama: "I think Katsuhiro Otomo is incredible."

No, not really. He was great as hell.

Rumiko Takahashi and all those waifus she made for us

Fuck Rumiko. Talentless bitch with her shit tier "lel i can only really do the same type of character , story and humor over and over and over in every fucking series". I am glad she faded into fucking obscure now

Not the same style, but DAMN Miura tho

Who is this?

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Miura is vastly superior at art, but Dragon Ball art was pretty subpar but the author was decent at character design and frankly his fight choreography / paneling was great

Well, early Dragon Ball anyway

Go Nagai in the 70s was fucking God tier

Toriyama is a joke compared to good mangaka.

These are all shit compared to Go Nagai in the 70s
>These GOAT transitions

Pretty much this. His art is pretty simple and his characters have very simple character design that lacks dynamism in fights. It's almost as if he had them simplified anticipating ahead that it was going to get an anime adaptation and already did for the animators the job of giving them easy to animate designs

I mean..

The guy from HeroAca is almost there.

For 70s, 80s it was decent but these shits are literally deviant art tier nowadays

Yes. The pic you posted isn't special at all if you don't take nostalgia into consideration. Murata for example is far better

Those are pretty bad for today standards

Junji ito

I love Nagai's stories and his art is great at showing expressions, but I don't really think could be considered one of the great artstyles of his era.

Today's standards are shit, so this is actually good

Manga art style regressed

Nah it was still shit in the 70s

You don't have to consider it yourself, it was already. This is early 70s and way ahead of many authors.

But Ishinomori was still at the top or his game too.

Nope. It was good expressive art then, and still good expressive art today.

60s, 70s, 80s art looks like literal shit save for maybe a few, dont you nigga pretend otherwise

00s and 2010s look worse. Majority of new artists' work look lifeless and dull nowadays. All of that for the sake of anatomy.

Just look st how the action is handled in big manga like naruto, it's garbage. You can barely make out what's going on.

They also killed shading.

Berserk's fights are a fucking mess lol

Miura is overrated as fuck. He has nice backgrounds which he spends an eternity on, but everything else is so lifeless.

And as pointed out, his action is a fucking mess. This is a common problem with modern artists.

There's more variety in art styles than ever imo. I do agree that some mainstream manga like tokyo ghoul and naruto have horrible paneling for fights.

I said at the last ride and I'll say it again here. Akira Toriyama is very good at making very readable fights. You can very easily follow the flow of action and understand the majority of the movement of a fight because he doesn't clutter things up with a lot of details or effects. However technically speaking his fight choreography is very bland. After Dragon Ball ended and he shifted over to Dragon Ball Z Fighters began using less techniques and Transformations that augmented your abilities but only really changed your appearance became the standard. This led to fights becoming more and more similar to one another and in general Toriyama didn't know how to draw interesting-looking fights.

His story is influential and compared to his contemporaries it was definitely a very well done series. But time and better artists have outpaced him.

Nagai was very good at displaying action scenes. And yes, he forsakes a lot of anatomy for it. But it just makes for better action.

Well duh. Manga is bigger business than ever, and you'll have the occasional gem, but for the most part, they look like this.

>Take example out of the shittiest possible manga in existence

No shit Sherlock

Are they better because they have more detail? This is what the majority of Sup Forums gets wrong. A more complex drawing doesn't make for a superior art style.

Toriyama's art is simple, sometimes complex when needed, and most importantly, it's recognisable. That's what good art is.

His art is slightly above average, nigga is like the king of same face out there. All he has under his belt is his fight choreography

Murata has long since surpasses Toriyama.

I dunno man, the only reason I recognize Toriyama's art is due his work in high profile games like Dragon Quest (His human designs are average, but his monster design is delicious) not exactly due dragon ball.

Now, shit like Araki's designs for Jojo, now that's pretty iconic and recognizable. You can easily tell which era his drawings came from with a single look despite how his art has constantly changed between parts,

>same face

Same face is important, to keep your art style consistent with your characters.

still, if you can't tell the difference between goku and his kid, you're the one with the problem here.

Araki

>comparing a weekly series to a monthly* series

You can't compare monthly manga and weekly manga. Let alone bi-yearly-if-we're-lucky manga like berserk.

Goten is pretty much Goku MK II. Just see him and modern takes on kid goku and they are identical.

Well too often I see modern manga focus on the art so much to the detriment of everything else. I read Dragonball (kid goku part since I never read that before) the other day and was amazed at How well the manga flowed.

>Literally same face with different hair

k

Next thing you tell me that Fairy Tail author knows to draw more than two body type as well

murata draws better dragonball than toriyama

His paneling and choreography was still god-tier during namek and I wouldn't call that early dragonball.
I would even say that saiyan/namek saga DB was peak tori.

Looks more like abuse of speedlines and flaring up auras to shoot into the sky to me plus the usual machinegun punching that some anons in a super thread told me it was just anime only stuff and that battles were more technical in the manga, the fucking liars.

>she faded into fucking obscure now
if by obscurity you mean she still currently has an ongoing series that is over 37 volumes long and has an anime of said series that is airing its 3rd season right now?

>abuse of speedlines

Well, then tell me a better way to convey fast movement on a static medium.

I used to despise how he drew characters, but that was when I thought he was drawing the anime.

When I saw the manga panels, I was blown away. Also he made designs for Dragon Quest. I fuckin love all his work, including his new stuff.

Masanori Morita is still the best. Manages to be detailed without feeling cluttered, draws dynamic fights which are easy to follow but have a lot of impact and has remained consistent throughout the length of his career. He draws better in a weekly series than most people do for monthly series. Possibly his mentor Tetsuo Hara is second best after him.

This isn't true. Murata's fights are more detailed but they aren't better choreographed than anything Toriyama's done. People will disagree just to be contrarian but when it comes to manga fights, Toriyama is the God. It's made more impressive when you consider he made up all his shit as he was going along.

Murata

anyone?

I feel like this is semi-realism/realism(background) And it's not the same as a cartooning style. Though Miura can definitely drew fantastic gag cartooning style, when you look at characters like Puck.

didn't the author get burned out after this story arc?

>Toriyama is the God
Take off your fucking nostalgia goggle. Any modern artists is better than that hack.

By not abusing them? It is the lazy ass method to show speed to fill everything with speedlines and leave the background as a completely white space with maybe one or two clouds.

Yeah, we know that the fuckers moves faster than the speed of light after certain point in the story, but that doesn't excuse to take the easy way to show dynamism and movement just to demonstrate something everybody already knows.

But then again, this is the same guy who turned what were more down to earth melee braws with actual physical combat into multifist strikes, put as much action as possible in the sky to not have to draw scenary and backgrounds, and that has them use energy attacks with an alarming rate despite back when it started, it was considered a huge deal and energy draining to use a single ki attack. Take OP's example as image, if that were happening during the era when toriyama got lazy, you can bet goku's arm would be covered in speedlines and piccolo would too have speedlines all over his body to demonstrate he was shaken by the strike

Murata

>tell me a better way to convey fast movement on a static medium
Using surroundings (like debris staying still while the characters move)? Drawing more panels to accentuate the speed of a particular move and create a slowmo effect at the same time?

But that is, of course, more difficult than scribbling some speed lines.

Why do fags in these threads always think hyperdetailed means good.

You're retarded. There's shit tons of speed lines back in original Dragon Ball in the first place

Yes.

Is hyper detailed the same as realism?

>ctrl+f inoue
>0 results

Shame

How are you supposed to show debris standing still with the characters moving in a medium that consists of still drawings? You could draw perfectly still panels with no speed lines but then there wouldn't be the same sense of movement even if you could use your imagination. I'm sure it can be done well that way but just adding more static imagery doesn't help with the sense of movement.

Murata, yoshikadu, dungeon meshi author, Miura all the most impressive monthly manga authors.

No, you can have a hyperdetailed caricature. Miura's art is detailed but no one would mistake for a photo.

Monthly gives you more time to work on the art. Toriyama was mostly a weekly artist so we don't really know what his manga art would look like if he worked monthly on. Just because monthly art is better than weekly art doesn't mean they're better artists overall.

As a purely visual medium, one expects manga to at least put more effort in details than stuff like anime. It is simply natural for people to get pissed off when mangaka delivers a subpar visual experience unless having a simplistic style is part of the joke in comedy manga.

It would be like bitching why people is bothered when they listen to a song with a lot of external noise or from a radio with bad quality

Simple art is not inherently worse than more detailed art.

Morikawa has mastered anatomy more than any manga artist. Until someone makes another sport manga with as much focus on body motion, no one can, or want, to surpass him. And he releases weekly on top of that.

It might be they prefer weekly manga so they dont have to think about more intricate designs for their charcters and enviroments.

He hasnt mastered what actual boxing looks like or perspective for that matter. Those legs look way too thin as well.
I'd say yoshikadu is best artist at anatomy.

Well OPM does reference and parody a ton of anime

ZUN

Ohgreat did the best art for manga imo

Simple art is better for readability and it takes much skill to to distill the very essence of a subject into a mere few lines.

Furthermore, the focus on how detailed the art often ignores visual parts of the comic more important like paneled, use of lights and darks, gesture, and so forth. Not saying that detailed art is bad or does not take considerable skill, but good simplified art is often ignored or thought of as lesser.

>How are you supposed to show debris standing still with the characters moving in a medium that consists of still drawings?
How? Are you actually fucking retarded? By drawing two panels/pages side by side with the characters moving but the debris staying still in the air. For example.

It translates speed much better than spamming abstract speed lines at every opportunity.

>Are they better because they have more detail?
Did you not read my post where I stated that a strength of Toriyama is his lack of distracting details? His ability to choreograph a fight is lacking, his settings are always desolate wastelands, and people use attacks that look the same with few notable exceptions like the Special Beam Canon or Kienzan.

Toriyama is a good artist but not the best. And while overly detailed work doesn't automatically make it better, being able to use things like shading and contrasts for mood and effect can make stuff stand out far better than just having everyone equally lit. Toriyama doesn't use panels to greater effect, he just knows better than some other artists how to make the flow of action between panels clear.

This is highly subjective waters though. I think that Toriko is very well drawn and the art can be messy with all the blood and fluids that can be shown in a fight. I also enjoy the works of Kujito Kazuhiro (Ushio to Tora, Karakuri Circus) is amazing despite the very sketch style of the former, and the sometimes rough look of the latter.

Ultimately Toriyama draws very safe art, it's good and looks good, but doesn't really excite me like other artists have accomplished. It's missing a necessary spark. take this fight, it doesn't really look exciting, just a bunch of guys flailing in a void of speedlines and blank background or empty wastes. The best part is the piledriver but the rest is bland.

>You can't compare monthly manga and weekly manga.
yes you can if you're just talking about who is the better artist. If OP had stated that we were only talking about weekly serializations Toriyama still doesn't make the top list. As it turns out, giving the artist more time to work on a page can lead to an increase in quality. But you still have mediocre monthly series just like you have mediocre weekly series.

>OPM does reference and parody a ton of anime
> ton of anime

Not really, no.

Manga should still be more detailed than anime because it's still panels instead of hundreds of frames and for monthly works have more time to work on the art. Even simple looking manga typically are more detailed than a lot of weekly anime because they require a lot less drawing and so don't suffer from issues that arise during animation. Especially for zoomed out scenes where in anime you'd get almost stick figures in a weekly anime.

It does depend on what style you're going for though, but Berserk's style is hyper detailed with lots of shading. Same for a lot of other realistic/gritty manga like Vagabond, Homunculus, etc. And manga allows for this detail to be put in while weekly anime typically doesn't and you only get a similar level of detail (though I still think it's generally inferior) in movies and sometimes OVAs.

Maybe, like the other guy I'm replying to is saying it doesn't really matter. Not all monthly manga is hyper detailed and there's no reason to think that Toriyama's art would start looking like Berserk if he worked monthly.

Some of the panels in Choze's fight had some serious speed-line abuse, like when he fired off that big ranged attack from his horns.

>He hasnt mastered what actual boxing looks like or perspective for that matte

He did. Boxing doesn't "look" special or anything, he adds flavor on top of it and that's okay.

>Those legs look way too thin as well.

They look way too thin because that's one of the lower classes (featherweight) on top of being in Japan.

Here's some higher weight class for you then.

Morikawa's anatomy show offs are mostly muscular dudes, while for Yoshikazu its mostly sexy girl or young boys.

>while for Yoshikazu its mostly sexy girl or young boys.
Whose poses/muscles are traced off yoshikadus selfies haha.
His feet aren't very sexy.

That wastes pages by needing two panels or two pages instead of having one panel or one page that uses speed lines. This is especially important for weekly manga that only get like 20 pages a week. It also would likely get really repetitive if you did this a lot, even more so than speed lines. I don't like speed line abuse either but your idea isn't any better. If anything they should be used in conjunction, probably with other methods.

When Ippo ends in 10 years maybe he'll draw something else then.

Simple styles, and minimalism are underappreciated that is for sure. In the same breath that I can post let me say that I've seen some great artists that make better use of blank space and sparse settings.

Houseki no Kuni is built upon the idea of using contrasts to great effect.

> Whose poses/muscles are traced off yoshikadus selfies

youtube.com/watch?v=isFDMid0BBU

>Same face is important
lol

You seem to be making the mistake of putting all artistic merit of a manga around detail.

Unique paneling and flow of action can go quite a long way. Also why are you comparing manga to anime anyway?

Taiyo Matsumoto is a fucking god.

I'm gonna dump 4 or 5 more from Takemitsu Zamurai.

>that background

Jesus Christ Murata should hire new assistants.

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Came here to post this, so instead I'll post Kazuo Koike.

>Manga should still be more detailed than anime
No, there's no "should". Manga can be more detailed than anime, but it's more important that an artist draws the way that satisfies them and expresses what they want. If that means drawing a million lines or if it means drawing two, then that's what they should do.

>Until someone makes another sport manga with as much focus on body motion
All Rounder Meguru, but it seems to be more about how believable the grappling is compared to the actual artwork.

Top tier taste, friend.