Waco

Who was in the wrong here?
strawpoll.me/15152184

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youtu.be/Xr9pQ1pIbiU
youtu.be/74wmI1Qm0rk
youtube.com/watch?v=soGyZdRxPnA
youtube.com/watch?v=CR8UbTVIhOc
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The US government.

US Government. The BATF wanted some publicity so they could get more funding. So they were going to storm this cult.
They got their asses kicked.
Then the FBI came in and killed everyone and destroyed all the evidence of the Government's crimes.
Then end, have a nice day.

Watch this documentary for a non-governmental, propagandized viewpoint. They murdered and periodically taunted these independently minded people. The US government is comprised of cowards and enemies.

youtu.be/Xr9pQ1pIbiU

This short 3 minute video explains everything user

youtu.be/74wmI1Qm0rk

The US government.

But those men were the ultimate cucks, shame David had to go down with them, he is a true alpha.

I assume both because the ATF would never go and murder a bunch of innocent civilians

The young nu-males voting "both". Please get penetrated by hollow-point bullets, boot lickers.

watch the video of that jew schumer attacking the cops that came forward and said the ATF fucked it all up. him and waters and pelosi have been rats for fucking decades.

Was it not unholy blasphemy for Koresh to declare himself “The Son of God, the Lamb”?

No sympathy for false prophets. He’s burning in hell with the rest of yhe heretics.

Never been a fan of religious nuts, christian or otherwise.
But waco was 100% fault of the feds.

Was he right?

The ATF made sure he was burning long before he went to hell

Is the new Waco mini series on Paramount any good?

(((The))) (((US))) (((government))) (((.)))

Dropping in to say Koresh, McVeigh, Kaczynski, Weaver, Jones, Manson, etc. did nothing wrong.

Your assumptions are incorrect. They used the fact they simply owned guns and had a community as a threat by lying and saying they were raping and impregnating women. Koresh and his followers were not going to obey oppressive and unlawful dictates, so they refused. One day the FBI/law enforcement appear at the door to ask for David. They converse and as David is going back inside after a heated disagreement, an officer shoot his guns at the door as if he was trying to his David. Things escalated afterward and a barricade ensued.

Never assume because it's easier to trust. The US government has a dirty historical record. Explore all information and go from there.

He was not a religious nut. He was devoted follower and felt the presence of our Lord. To condemn people to death for that speaks negatively of you.
He was a another patsy like the mentally deranged Nickolas Cruz. Notice how McVeigh was under mentally stress PTSD and medication? Then quickly executed to be silenced. The Clinton Administration used the Oklahoma City bombing to pass the Terrorism Bill shortly after. Three letter agencies were involved. Murdered innocent babies.

A sect of the Seventh Day Adventists broke off.
David Koresh molded this branch into a cult.
ATF suspected they were stockpiling illegal weapons.
Koresh offered to let the ATF inspect their paperwork but the ATF declined.
ATF obtained search and arrest warrants.
ATF claimed Koresh was running a meth lab - they weren't.
Branch Davidians learned about the raid - Koresh said he intended to talk with the ATF.
ATF decided to go through with the raid anyway as planned.

What happens next is up for debate.
>ATF says Branch Davidians shot first
>Branch Davidians say ATF shot first

Branch Davidians called emergency services within a minute of the shooting beginning to ask them to stop shooting.
2 hours of shooting went by.
Local sheriff called a ceasefire - though the ATF readily admitted they were for the ceasefire cause they were running low on ammo.
Branch Davidians let the ATF get the dead/wounded.
6 hours later ATF breaks the ceasefire.

FBI comes in now.
FBI cuts all Branch Davidian contact to outside world.
Some negotiation happens and the Davidians let some children out.
FBI let Branch Davidians make a video but decided not to release it to the public because it would garner them sympathy.
FBI started fucking with them more.
FBI starts driving Bradleys and M728s around, playing music/slaughterhouse sounds all through the night.
FBI cut all water and power.
Koresh ordered more Davidians to leave - they did and were arrested.
Janet Reno and Clinton okay'd the siege.
FBI decides to blow holes in the wall and pump in tear gas.
Sometime FBI fire pyrotechnic rounds despite instructions not to.
Fires started and everyone remaining died.

A month later the site was bulldozed destroying any remaining evidence.

Government gaining search warrants on reasoning that is literally false
Government gaining search warrants on reasoning that effectively states that purchases equate to illegal intentions
Government refusing active compliance by the group in question
Government ignoring attempts by the group to negotiate
Government actively and intentionally increasing hostility of the scenario
Government censoring the public from information regarding the scenario
Government functionally deciding that the group will commit suicide for them

Thank you for posting.

This, I didn’t think Schumer was that bad with his occasional appearances on Conan back in the day. But seeing how vile and reptilian he was against Texas Rangers, who were just giving honest assessments of their findings, was an eye opener.

Aren't hey to support the false government narrative? If so, absolutely not. It looks pathetic anyway.

Koresh had guns, just like the NRA. He killed himself and all those children.

>Kaczynski
Anarcho-primitivist in denial and hero to far left.
>Jones
Well, he did kill a bunch of niggers.
>Manson
pic related

Feebs are at fault, not only for escalation, but the wet-workers they hired.

I dont blame those ATF agents, I mean, who wants to look down the barrel of an AR-15..

So far into the 1st episode its trying to show both sides fairly. Anyone else seen the series?

February 28, 1993 was a Sunday.
Mount Carmel was a church.

Who was in the wrong?
The American people. For not demanding the immediate arrest of all the officers who participated in that atrocity.

Remember that scene in The Patriot where the Redcoats herd colonists into a church and set it on fire?
Same shit.

Who said this, terrorist or freedom fighter?

"Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate "promises," they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight. [...] Is a Civil War Imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn't come to that. But it might"

Or this:
"It is a lie if we tell ourselves that the police can protect us everywhere at all times. Firearms restrictions are bad enough, but now a woman can't even carry Mace in her purse?"

Or this:
"The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful, and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control"

I was stationed in Fort Hood when this happened, we were briefed not to go up there and collect anything. That's all we ever heard of it. It was a major fuck up from the government though, had this happened a few years later with the internet and things it would have been 100xWaco.

youtube.com/watch?v=soGyZdRxPnA

youtube.com/watch?v=CR8UbTVIhOc

did Koresh really rape all those chilluns??

CNN said so so it must be true.

>who was the Israeli that escaped?
>where would he go escape extradition?
>what is the name of the CIA agent overseeing the setup/sting?
>what does Waco have to do with 'Parkland'?

Semi related since Waco gave rise to it:
How many folk here follow the Redoubt movement?

Dirty jap range banned you from Sup Forums? Come to goonsaloon.pro where we don't ban anyone. HidKhOQK

You didn't tell the whole story.
There is clearly tapes of the people inside saying
>UM: "They got two cans of Coleman fuel down there? Huh?"
>UM: "Empty."
>UM: "All of it?"
>UM: "Nothing left."


Theres a lot of lies from sympathizers, I mean I agree the FBI/ATF fucked up and it is there fault but there is strong support to show that a fire may have been started from the inside.

Also a lie. They did own illegeal full auto weapons without a permit.

Also David was impregnating weapon, you cant deny that. But he was the only one (which is why its funny to watch Sup Forums defend literal cucks because muh evil guvment)

*impregnating women, man I fucked that up.

>The American Redoubt concept is based primarily around the Rawlesian Survivalist Philosophy[6] including the precept Racism Ignores Reason. James Rawles is outspokenly anti-racist[7][8][9] and pro-Israel.[10] Rawles published a blog entry in 2010 titled "Lest Any Man Should Boast: A Christian Survivalist Perspective on Race, Religion, and Reason", which covered at length his views that people are individuals and that there is no inherent superiority among races.

>A six-month investigation of child abuse allegations by the Texas Child Protection Services in 1992 failed to turn up any evidence
>Regarding the allegations of child abuse, the evidence is less sure
>FBI Director William Sessions publicly denied the charge and told reporters that they had no such information about child abuse inside Mount Carmel Center
>A careful examination of the other child abuse charges found the evidence to be weak and ambiguous, casting doubt on the allegations
>The allegations of child abuse stem largely from detractors and ex-members
>The 1993 U.S. Department of Justice report cites allegations of child sexual and physical abuse. Legal scholars point out that the ATF had no legal jurisdiction in the matter of child protection and it appears that these accounts were inserted by the ATF to inflame the case against Koresh

You gotta put that in to keep normies from rallying against it.

Even if the fire was started from inside, it wouldn't have mattered. The FBI/ATF destroyed various stairways etc. during their breach. People couldn't leave if they wanted. Very few survivors made it out because of this. Furthermore, the women and children remaining inside were sent into the vault early on. This destruction of stairways prevented them from escaping and forced them to suffocate in the smoke.

Secondly, the only thing that made their guns illegal was lack of tax stamp - and its difficult to determine if these guns were for private ownership. The Branch Davidians had an FFL, and ran sales of firearms to provide the monetary needs of their lifestyle. During the time of the siege, the FFL holders were out at a gun show selling their merchandise, and we know that Koresh and another member frequently signed for purchases when they were delivered.

Its also worth note that their guns being automatic was found out post siege. The ATF were invited in to check the paperwork etc. on firearms, their stockpile etc. and the ATF refused.

Dirty jap range banned you from Sup Forums? Come to goonsaloon.pro/intj/ where we don't ban anyone. VJZG5iHl

New series is based. Shows the ATF as slimy fags who could've taken Korresh peacefully, but wanted to go in guns blazing for PR. FBI are also shown as the bloodthirsty bad guys at not only Ruby Ridge, but Waco as well.

It definitely redpilled some people.

Somebody notice my trips before thread dies please

>Ruby Ridge

guy gets mad over land deal with Randy Weaver
judge sides with Weaver and sentences due to pay additional 21k to Weaver
guy writes letters to FBI/Sheriff asserting Weaver was threatening to kill governor/president/pope etc.
guy tells them that Weaver is a member of the Aryan Nations and has a fuckton of guns hidden
FBI/Secret Service/sheriff investigate and interview Weaver and his wife
Weavers deny allegations
Weaver was associated with Kuminick who was alleged to be Aryan Nations
Weaver states that Kuminick wasn't Aryan Nations but that he was Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord
Weaver reiterates that he is not Aryan Nations
Weaver files affidavit stating his personal enemies are trying to bring the fed down on him

In comes ATF to fuck everything up
Kuminick takes Weaver around and eventually introduces him to an ATF informant
Informant claims Weaver wanted to organize a group to fight the zionist occupied government
ATF claims Weaver sold them 2 sawn off shotguns shorter than min barrel length
Weaver claims that's horse shit
ATF tries to blackmail Weaver to become an informant
Weaver refuses
ATF files charges claiming Weaver is a bank robber with criminal convictions previously (this is all false)
Weaver is indicted on charges of making/possessing illegal weapons
Weaver is let out on bail
Court case becomes a fuckery because Weaver is hard to contact due to no phone
Court date is changed and letter is sent to attorney to give to Weaver telling him new date
Probation officer informs Weaver of a new date (but the wrong one)
Judge issues bench warrant
Judge is told of the fuck up in Weaver hearing the wrong date by probation officer
Judge decides not withdraw warrant
US Marshals decide to give Randy until the court day he knew of to appear in court
US Attorney's office calls up grand jury and tries to get the warrant dropped
They forgot evidence to the date fuck up
Grand jury says go get Weaver for jail now

US Marshals decide to treat Weaver as a fugitive
Weaver confused by inconsistent messages from lawyer and government decides to sit tight
Magistrate tells Weaver if he loses court case he will lose his land (leaving wife homeless) and the government will take his children
Weaver believes he won't get a fair trial
Marshals decide to negotiate
Assistant US attorney tells them no more negotiation
US Marshals start surveilance and build a threat profile
US Marshals create a profile basically stating Weaver is a green beret who will shoot on sight and has booby trapped his property
In reality, he's just a guy in a cabin
Media does a flyover and claims he shot at them (he didn't this is confirmed in FBI's after action report) but its used in drawing up rules of engagement

Now comes the fun

US Marshals dressed in camo with night vision and M16s are scouting the property
Marshals' throw rocks at dog kennel
Weaver's son and family friend come out to see what caused the ruckus
They decide to let a dog out and follow it cause they figured it smelt small game
US Marshals bump into Weaver's son and family friend

US Marshals shoot and kill the dog
Weaver's son fires back
Marshals kill Weaver's son
Family friend kills a marshal
Family friend is shot and injured
Everyone retreats

FBI, Idaho national guard, US Marshal's Special Ops all get involved now
Rules of Engagement are drawn up
ROE basically state if anyone has a gun, shoot to kill
Also kill all dogs

Snipers are dispatched before fbi negotiators get there
Sniper shoots Weaver injuring him
Sniper shoots and kills Weaver's wife
FBI Negotiators arrive
FBI Negotiators can't get shit done
Civilian negotiator talks them down and gets Weaver and company to surrender

Ultimately:
>Weaver acquitted of all charges cept missing court date and does 18 months
>Family friend acquitted of all charges
>Weavers sue the government for 200 million, but settle out of court for 100k for Randy, and 1 mill for each of his 3 daughters
>Family friend sues the government and wins 380k
>Sniper who killed the Weaver wife was charged with Manslaughter
>Feds moved the court case to federal court and got the sniper off due to sovereign immunity

Same sniper was at the Waco siege. The first shots fired on the last day were from the building he was in, and there were three spent cartridges collected from his position however the fed claimed the rounds could have been left by the ATF as they had been there before and that it was impossible to match to said sniper because after the Waco siege he had his rifle rebarrelled.

reminder that the range ban is a goon plot
>buy botnet access
>spam Sup Forums with cuck porn
>use range bans to advertise

>Who was in the wrong here?
Your face faggot
Kill yourself

The 90's basically was the seed of current mistrust in Government.
What started as white supremacist organizations eventually grew into a coalition of small government minded people who saw the systemic corruption in government and the law and have thus acquired just enough power to be a stop check on big government for the most part.
It's no wonder that the left wants people like us gone. It's no wonder that they demonize every attempt at being left alone.

Yeah no shit, if not for the mandatory cucking and Koresh's weirdly Jewish interpretation of Christianity they'd be pretty based.

If he did, then how did ATF have jurisdiction? It was part of a smear after shit went Ruby Ridge.

koresh was a pussy, if i was the leader of a cult and calling myself jesus i'd have had my guys crucify me and carry me out and plant me outside for all the news media to see kek

>Weavers wife was armed with a baby, she was carrying her child in her arms when shot dead by the FBI

Another similar event was Rainbow Farm:

Pro marijuana campground
Host part picnic/part woodstock style events with a pro-pot image
Used legal loophole that allowed owner to hold events without arrests by having concessionaires/employees not sell weed
Some kid who got weed there drove high and ended up in a car crash killing himself and injuring others
County prosecutor starts an investigation
State police serve tax fraud warrant and find 200 marijuana plants
Owner and his gay partner are arrested on a bunch of charges including running a drug house, felony manufacture, and weapons charges
They're son is taken into foster care
They are facing 20 years in jail but are out on bail
State decides to seize the campground under civil asset forfeiture laws
Gay guys fail to arrive at court date

So this is where things get left up to interpretation

State police allege
>they burned down 10 structures on their farm
>shot a news helicopter
>shot at and missed a police helicopter
>acquired assault weapons
>boobytrapped and mined the area
>sprayed bullets into the woods to keep the cops away

FBI gets involved
>FBI arrive with armored cars and 50 agents
>gay guys shoot a civilian helicopter (this time there is proof of this)
>gays shoot at an armored car
>owner was walking and saw an FBI agent - allegedly he raised his gun on the agent
>Owner is shot 5 times in the head, and 3 in the chest
>another guy who is a regular shot and injured
>gay boyfriend sets house on fire
>as gay boyfriend leaves, he is shot in the head

And that's the end of Rainbow Farms. Its worth noting that both the Police and the FBI would not let the owners talk to their lawyer at all during the Siege even though she offered to mediate. A local neighbour was doing a lot of runs in between because he was friends with the owners, but the cops fucked over many options for cooperation. When the owners asked to talk to the media and apologized for shooting the news helicopter, they nixed that idea.

St. David of Waco.

I like it. It's pretty pro-branch davidian and makes the atf and fbi look like fucking assholes. The atf shoots a dog, which causes the fire fight.

Next week is the finale. It'll be interesting to see how they portray the fire starting.

I think they picked excellent source material. It's based on the fbi negotiator and David Thibadeau's account. The FBI guy was skeptical of the government side, Thibadeau was an agnostic who didn't believe in the religious aspect of the branch davidians but lived with them for a year and survived the seige. You get a skeptical, quasi-outsider's perspective of both sides.

Fun bit of story:
I was in sixth grade when Waco was going on. The bulk of us kids didn't give a shit about Waco but there was one sixth grader that basically was following the whole thing super close. And he was constantly talking about it with our English teacher, who was a super conservative type.

Well, the end of the siege happened near the end of the school year and during one slow period, the English teacher somehow found out from another teacher about the feds burning the place down with everyone in it and managed to acquire a TV and brought it into the classroom so we could watch the coverage of the compound burning and the media talking about how Koresh and his followers had committed mass suicide by fire.

To this day, some of us think he did simply so he and the other kid could watch the carnage aftermath at school live, rather than wait until they got home and catch just clips of it on the nightly news.

>McVeigh
>patsy
No way. Too many years worth of writing attributed to him to have been a patsy. The feds don't construct straw people over the course of years to cut them down.

THERES FUCKING CAPTCHAS ON FUCKING STRAWPOLL NOW?

interesting. when i was in highschool the entire school watched people jump from the towers on 9/11 and for the next week everyone was talking about how their older brothers enlisted and how they were going to follow

>I assume both because the ATF would never go and murder a bunch of innocent civilians
LOL.

Clarification: The right wing mistrust. The left wing has been mistrustful since Nixon and the hippie era.