How did they build thousands of warships, supply cities and fleets of billions of people and construct huge satellites with economy that is based on peasant labor using muscle.
The notion that Alliance wasnt the strongest force in the setting was childish and retarded. Why do people take this show seriously?
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To be fair the empire also controlled most of the known universe.They have more than enough resources to do so. Not all planets were inhabited by pilgrim looking fuckers, I'm sure there were some more technologically advanced ones out there.
Scale. Most of those planets are basically agricultural and other kind of land, with few planets being industrial and economic centers. Like how the American midwest is a large swaths of nothing but actually produces alot of things, only to have the coastals process everything into finished goods, making it seem the coastals "produce" the wealth.
Or maybe the same way medieval domains have mostly farmland but have a small officer class that only raise levies from the peasantry during war time.
Tldr;
It was really really big with a few economic centers.
I forgot that transfer of wealth is also mostly in the coastals, so they give the impression of being "richer" states. To prove my point: They'll starve to death in a few days the moment the midwest refuses to give them food.
The problem is that medieval planets dont produce goods that hold any worth. Its essentially empire holds few good planets and rest just sustain themselves with medieval life style.
Still doesnt make sense when compared to Alliance that should have more "good" planets
>The problem is that medieval planets dont produce goods that hold any worth.
Food hold worth.
A medieval society doesnt have the production capability to produce enough surplus food user. Famines are common plus a you lack certain necessities like long term storage capability.
Well they didn't show you the mines and other material extraction facilities. Those can exist without turning an otherwise feudal backwater into a industrial planet. They could just ship those goods to somewhere else to be processed. The Empire was like, really really big. You could call them inefficient or retrograde, but you can't call them poor.
"feudal" though doesn't seem to be a form of government for the Empire, but it seemed more like a cultural thing. You can have an advanced government and economic structure without an "era-appropriate" culture.
Look at the Roman Empire. For most of its life it functioned like a modern nation-state in all but name. They had complex government structures, a military-industrial complex, a massive bureaucracy but they are otherwise stuck in a the ancient world. But in exchange, they had to be really really really big to squeeze enough resources to function as an Empire.
We could contrast them to Greece, where they had alot of "good" planets but still got steamrolled by a bunch of country bumpkins from Latium.
Rome wasnt big during Macedonian wars user
Rome had Egypt and I think it was North Africa/Tunisa produce so much grain that they produced surplus, enough surplus to have citizens of Rome have basically bread neetbux.
And rome was like, earlier than medieval societies. In fact, medieval societies was structurally a carry-over to Dioclecian policies to fix Rome's deficit.
It was big enough. Big enough to meatgrinder Cartage.
>what are fertilizants that didn't exist in middle ages
>what are SCI FI fertilizants that don't even exist today
>Look at the Roman Empire. For most of its life it functioned like a modern nation-state in all but name. They had complex government structures, a military-industrial complex, a massive bureaucracy but they are otherwise stuck in a the ancient world.
More or less this. Also in early 1700s Europe was wealthier than feudalist europe in 1200s, but the divide in wealthiness between peasants and aristocracy was even bigger
How did Germany get so hulked up despite having a pastoral economy forced upon them post WWII?
Nobody knows~
Hitler did it
Its the future, why the fuck is farming and agriculture still done by hand instead of machines?
The FPA was founded roughly 200 years after the Galactic Federation turned into the Galactic Empire, GE, 310 UC(Universal Calendar, year 1 being 2801 AD)
The events of LoGH takes place around year 800 UC. By that time the Alliance-Imperial War has lasted for 160 years.
Note that the FPA and the GE is evenly matched at the beginning of LoGH. This means that the FPA economy somehow managed to catch up with that of the GE within a span of 300 years.
If it hadn't been for retarded politicians, the FPA would've eventually outproduced the GE.
>what are SCI FI fertilizants that don't even exist today
I don't think fertillizants were brought up, but in the anime-only episode 14, Free Planets Alliance troops make a barren planet abandoned by Empire troops per Reinhard's Scorched Earth tactic fertile, but the need for more supplies for the FPA comes, and the supply unit is ambushed by Kircheis. Cue the FPA troops robbing the civilians living in the planets their occupying.
If anything, you should wonder more about the empire's cultural shift from modern culture to literally 2nd Reich.
I mean, being de facto and then actual aristocracy doesn't automatically mean you suddenly take cultural trappings of aristocracy in the past.
Larping an older culture doesn't really take off, if at all.
Yes I remember. Point being, pushing for sci fi fertilizants wouldn't be needed, with XX century tier fertilizants we can support a much larger amount of people than before fertilizants.
Some people said Thomas Malthus was proven wrong for this, but I don't think he was. Simply Malthus picked food as the element to show his point of fight for resources.
LoG doesn't follow SKYNET or IROBOT plotlines, that's almost an overused cliché by now.
It's 2017, but why is India a regional power with a large I.T. infrastructure despite still literally shitting on the streets? You're implying technological progress automatically comes with your notions of other kinds of progress.
That's part of the very backstory of the franchise. Colonization was hampered because of literal piracy, thus making humanity give up on colonization and focus on fighting those pirates. The man that put on end to those pirates once and for all ended up taking up politics and succeeded. Then he chose monarchical autocracy.
>The man that put an end to those pirates once and for all ended up taking up politics and succeeded.
Fixed
Yeah, sure they can produce surplus but you still see majority in agriculture related jobs ergo thr surplus isnt that big
He can choose a monarchical autocracy, but it shouldn't have to *look* like a historical monarchical autocracy. Like, it could function exactly like a 2nd Reich, but they'd still wear jeans and listen to k-pop instead of literally 2nd reich I mean, if you squint your eyes a little you could see Oligarchs in America as aristocracy (in a stretch) in the sense that they're elites that pass power through generations, but you don't see them acting and looking like english nobles.
But Rudolph chose to larp. And it actually got caught on culturally. And that almost never happens I can't even remember a precedent of it. Cultural shifts aren't trickle down affairs.
>Cultural shifts aren't trickle down affairs
Tell that to Mao. Autocratic monarchies have existed for thousands of years. It's only since post-WWII where they got unpopular and everyone believes in democracy. But there's no guarantee that'll last.
Forgot to quote
I don't think we've actually seen statistics about the empire, so we can only assume what's logically possible and use irl as basis. So if they work and we can see historical precedent for it, then that's how it probably worked.
Sometimes anime becomes a little more stupid when the author tries to be smart and puts retarded numbers that don't add up. See: GoT, especially the fucking Wall. The author not putting it in exact detail is often times a good thing and not to mention generates speculation and discussion.
Are we getting novels 6-8?
Where is Mao now? His legacy is but dust. Deng's China reigns supreme. Enterprise has always been a chink thing, commie or not.
Sure autocratic existed for thousands of years, but culture is almost always defined from the ground up, like how every single kraut, frog, nord or whatever else is there that ends up ruling England becomes English. With the exception of the Normans, but it's more like a cultural admixture than a direct shift from X to Y. And autocratic monarchies comes with all sorts of flavors, and it's just silly that the Empire autocratic monarchy in particular copies historical prussian(ish) monarchy. And with zero cultural succession too. Like by the time the Galactic Empire happened there was probably no existing aristocracy in the republic outside of history books, thus theyre basically larping.
This. Authocratic Monarchism is the most Historically popular and recurrent form of government, regardless of one's opinion of it.
The "democracy forever and ever" movement only appeared after WWII
You don't need to pay peasants.
>it's a "julian watches the history channel" episode
You can be an autocracy/monarchy despite having modernist architecture, user. I'm trying to say that an monarchical form of government doesn't necessarily mean fancy 17th century palaces or 14 century castles, it just means succession through blood and nothing else.
Like the Best Korea. That's basically a monarchy but it sure doesn't look like the Joseon dynasty.
Monarchism got BTFO during the 18th century in which it transitioned into more republic/democratic governments.
World War 1 killed Monarchism and set up the idea of democracy forever, but due to tough times and lots of butthurt, the democracies of the time became short lived and replaced with autocratic systems they proceeded to get BTFO once more.
>"democracy"
>it's run by a kabalist secret society
I'm waiting for an open autocracy, user. I'm getting some late-roman-republic senses here. Oligarchs will soon be BTFO in favor of a Caesar.
Why are the Phezzan jews allowed to maintain so much power? They are just a single trade planet, the Empire should've took the easy pawn and then invaded the Alliance through that channel.
Mutual silent agreement for both parties to trade between each other. They don't want to admit it, but they still need each other.
Well yes. But nothing stops absolute monarchy from reviving aesthetics from the time where it has the most power.
Why does this give power? They instantly control fads instead of giving it to celebrities and fashion designers.
That said, they pick monarchy outfits similiar to the 1700s. They could've gone full medieval instead like pick related.
But Medievalist Chivalry code remains present in both Kircheis and Reinhart.
I doubt we have achieved true democracy yet. We are LARPing as a democracy while being ruled by the consensus of a small numbered cartel of insanely rich people.
Was there any reason to? Again, culture is not a trickle down thing. Celebs and fashion designers don't dictate culture in a consequential way, so replacing those celebs with aristocrats would mean the same thing.
The books are pretty explicit about the nobles living a lifestyle where they avoided much automation and mechanization, substituting servant labor whenever something needed to be done.
So the nobles got to wear bespoke woolen garments and eat completely handmade meals, while everyone else probably had to settle for mass-produced synthetic clothes and food (the food might be synthetic too).
We don't get a good look at what this other side of the Empire looks like, but the leisure area in Iserlohn Fortress provides a small glimpse.
The Empire was clearly an archaeofuturist society that kept its grim resource extraction and manufacturing industries away from where people lived and formed communities.
Anyone know when the new Legends of Galactic Heroes starts?
Ask again next Wednesday.
Nah FPA was teetering on the brink of collapse, it simply wouldn't have been able to muster more manpower or resources into the military. Meanwhile Galactic Empire wasn't even really trying. They whipped out massive fleets and armies and opulently built ships capable of orbital entry (unlike FPA ships) and built massive space stations with equally massive weapons. If Reinhard or anyone in the empire really really wanted to fuck up FPA, they could do so, easily.
What's happening next Wednesday?
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I hope so. I've been preordering them every chance I get.
There is going to be some sort of press release where they have some people involved in the project just come and talk about it. One of the big announcements is probably about the new VAs that will take the place for the VAs that are either dead, retired, or just cannot voice the character anymore.
Although I thought it was happening on the 22nd, and not the 20th.
The fuck? Are you telling me Indians have never used scythes? That's Middle Age tier technology.
The FPA actually was far in advance of the empire for most of the war.
It's handwaived away how the Empire didn't get fucked before they put up Iserlohn. But the Empire were so inept that the tactics that Reinhard beat in episode 1 were what crushed an Imperial fleet at the start of the war. The tactic defeated by "not sitting still and waiting" crushed them.
The Alliance massively outproduced them and caught up to them in like 100 years. Then there is a bunch of hand waiving which means the empire is really stable and the alliance not.
I didn't expect to like those episodes as much as I did
I honestly want a series focusing on those events
If you get the first volume of the LN, the prologue goes more indepth into it than the History TV episode. Pretty good LN, if you don't mind it being somewhat dry.
Seeing Rudolf's rise to power from a close perspective (like Kircheis to Reinhard) would be cool. Or maybe some earlier moments of the FPA-Empire War.
Alliance got unstable cause they took in a shitload of refugees and immigrants from the Empire, many of whom were salty losers of power struggles.
The thing is, innovation is not universal among a society. The Aztecs were an extremely advanced society in many aspects, to the level that the Spanish were not THAT far ahead of them. Yet the Aztecs never figured out the wheel.
That doesn't really lead to the weird stability issues they had. If anything revanchism should have been the national fucking sport considering their entire history was basically "the empire fucking hates us since we left"
Many societies stopped using the wheel. Japan decided that wheels were shit for a few hundred years as well. Sub-saharan africa is covered with cave art of chariots. But they stopped using them because other things did the job just as well or better for what they needed.
No not "stopped using the wheel", they literally never invented it. And odds are it was because they lacked beasts of burden.
The difference was that their founders really believed in democracy while some of the refugees they took in were just power hungry losers who were hungry at another opportunity at power.
The Spanish completely destroyed their history. We have no idea if they invented it and then dropped it.
user the books are pretty explicit that the reason the FPA fell is because they lost sight of the ideals they were founded upon.
So was the show, but a contributing factor they gave in one of those history episodes was taking in refugees who didn't care about their ideals.
>But Rudolph chose to larp. And it actually got caught on culturally. And that almost never happens
But it has? Diocletian, started the tradition of Larping as a king despite only being the "First among Equals" and from then on nearly all other Emporers fully ended the sham of Republicanism. Peter the Great, larped about being a giant Frenchaboo, and systematically caused the whole aristocracy to give up their beards and westernize. Mao and Cheng Kai Shek Larped about being modern and western, and East Asia now wears Blue Jeans. During the Meiji period, the same happened with Japan. And before that, the satellite states of the East, Larped about being fake Chinese, and their entire systems of writing descended from them.
During the Roman Empire, the Emperor and his familia set trends and fashion.
That's not them larping their own past.
>They'll starve to death in a few days the moment the midwest refuses to give them food.
>Try again
Dont know about East Coast though i reckon they can survive on fish.
Aztecs were THOUSANDS of years behind the spaniards. The technology gab was astonishingly wide
>metal working
>seabased travel
>math
>construction
>society itself
You can't live forever on almonds and milk.
But then again, why the fuck would the midwest refuse to give their customers, ie coastals, food? The original point is pretty meaningless too.
>fleets of billions of people
Considering that the Empire's entire population was several dozen billions (the actual number was stated, IIRC 40 billion) I highly doubt that.
A massice technological collapse after Rudolph took over.
They never recovered.
>40 billion
It feels like every planet would have to be masssively underpopulated for that to work
They mostly were from what we saw.
I just checked, it was 25 billion at the series' start, the Allience had 13 billion
Remember that Westerland had only two million inhabitants.
Humanity took quite a nosedive, not even the Imperium from 40k fucked up as badly as Goldenfart.
The Imperium is also huge on having some planets whose sole purpose is shitting out babies.
Not quite what I meant:
thanks to Goldenjew technology first dropped and then stagnated badly, followed by a massive population loss.
He's probably one of the most disastrous and incompetent ruler in all of fiction. But hey, at least he managed to pull of the nearly impossible task of rewriting all cultures into a historical one no one probably cared about, so at least he spend all the resources, well, shitty.
The Imperium at least has the excuse that they were first ripped apart by uber-terminators and then screwed over by hell.
And hey, even Oceania and the ICG from Xeelee TRIED to make things shitty for everyone. Goldenbaum managed this all by himself.
unintentionally.
I forgot a word
Despite the "advancement" of the nations, most of the planets are actually still colonial in nature. There are a few highly populated core planets, and most of the outer periphery are probably the equivalent of rural settlement outposts.
>thanks to Goldenjew technology first dropped and then stagnated badly, followed by a massive population loss.
Chairmen Mao 2.0.
Whatever you say about Rudy and his successors the inferior genes exclusion act purified humanity of vast majority of genetic defects. I mean, how many people on either empire or FPA wore glasses or had born defects of other sort? Oberstein was very rare oddity.
The reason was brain drain and FPA sabotage.
Makes sense how low theyre at the techscale, planets cant support high population
Genetics doesn't work that way. In 300 years, all sorts of genetic defects will arise as each generation reproduces, no matter how superior their ancestors were. All the act did was to racially cleanse the Empire of undesirable races.
>Colorado, Nevada and Utah shut off the water
nuthin personell spic huehuehuehue
No the purge continued until very recently. Oberstein himself said he'd have been killed off had he been born earlier. They kept on weeding out the inferior individuals as they appeared and made sure they didn't breed.
The Spanish didn't really destroy that much themselves, but they did leave the vacuum for the competing tribes to do it.
Post-conquest they spcifically destroyed as much of the legacy of the natives as they could. So we just have no fucking idea about an entire strain of human history.
Nearly a third of all human history just, gone.
Fair point. But was it that same Act that prevented ethnic minorities and republican families from reproducing?
You can replace ships. You can't replace good men and women. Alliance kept getting good men killed off, both in government and in politics. It all culminated in the infamous decision at gunpoint. Yang won the battle, but the war was already lost long before.
You guys think Reinhard had a chance at being emperor of the universe if he was an ugly deformed freak instead of a 10/10 Ubermensch?
>it's an Imperial Engineers accidentally build the City episode
FPA was only able to do it because they geared their entire society towards resisting the Empire and it was taking a toll. By the time the series takes place Yang notes essentially all the skilled people are in the military and you can't even get an education without enlisting unless you're filthy rich.
The only reason the FPA was so successful at stalemating the Empire for so long was the Empire was deliberatly kept in cultural and technological stasis to maintain their 18th century in space way of life. The moment they bring out AIs and even modern technology for the masses, the aristocracy system is toast.
>Earlier moments in the FPA-Empire War
I agree with this one, would've been great to see more designs along the lines of pic related. Sucks how they really didn't do much else with the whole Bruce Ashbey storyline in Spiral Labyrinth, especially not fleshing out more of the Empire admirals during that time.
Don't you shittalk the ICG, they managed the impossible. Out of all the known galaxies, only the Milky Way was free of the fucking Xeelee.
To be fair we don't know what happened to the non europeans. I'm guessing they were just kept second class citizens or in separate planets. That or they chose some kidn of gene editing so their descendants would look more germanic. That last one doesn't seem too far ftched considering Rudolf's autism.
Ashbey was killed by the FPA government because they feared him turning into another Rudolf. Had he lived and pressed on after his victory, it's very possible that would have happened.
I thought Yang's final theory is that it was just a lucky shot.
democracy is gay yo
It's pretty convenient Alfred Rosas died soon after talking to Yang under strange circumstances. The last member of the 730 mafia and the last living man who was present at the battle at a command level.
As I understood it, Rosas was involved in the plot.
Niggers are starving all around africa because they dont know about irrigation or fertilizers and carrying shit around in huge vases because they dont know about wheels.