Why are birth rates declining?

youtube.com/watch?v=kcKbVQ7Xmho

Why are birth rates in the West declining pol?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc
independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-warn-of-sperm-count-crisis-8382449.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Because there's too many fucking people as it is. We could free up a little space and be fine.

See "Mouse Utopia". Most people live in over crowded conditions and think on the mouse level, Op.

You know, Farmers used to have kids who would work on the farm
Labourers used to have kids who'd work in factories
Then kids started costing a fortune and not everyone can afford that (barring cases of living off the government's teat)

fpbp

But birth rates aren't declining in other parts of the world, like Africa, the Middle East, or Central America.

That's a good, though frightening, theory. I wonder - has the mouse utopia thing been repeated? A lot of experiments from those days turned out to be nonsense.

kys faggot
There's no overpopulation in western nations. They're importing people like crazy to make up for the low birth rates.

I would need to make like at LEAST twice as much money as I do now in order to comfortably have a single child, and I already make $70k/yr

that's why proper borders are needed, you let overpopulated shitholes like asia or africa to choke themselves to death

That's a good point. Kids use to be helpful, and now they are more of a cost. However, how do you explain why places like Central or South America, or Africa, still have high fertility rates?

Please consider my reply here

>They're importing people like crazy to make up for the low birth rates.
It's impolite to lie, RCMP-kun

I'm just guessing, but because kids don't cost a fortune there
Kids didn't even out to nil, they spiked in cost

Yeah well no wonder they live in shit holes.

This is a bullshit excuse

Lack of traditionalism, women being excessively career focused, urbanization, costs, kids not working anymore...

That's true. Western nations are below replacement rate. Populations are aging and declining and that's a big problem for countries across Europe, Japan, Australia, and the US.

One of the theories in the video in the OP is that low wages are causing the decline in fertility. Exactly like you say - kids are expensive, and wages haven't been outpacing inflation. One thing I happen to know is that people often tend to overestimate how expensive having a child will be. It's about 12k a year on average according to figures I've seen.

>abortion
>birth control
>choosing career and procrastinating marriage/family until it's biologically unfeasible
>women not finding men who meet their ridiculously inflated expectations
women's lib, duh.

Are you raising the kids off your own salary alone? If you had a wife you could oh wait.....

>people in shithile countries are breeding like rats so we should too!

No, they should just have less kids.

Feminism
women don't want to have children if it means giving up their career, and the vast majority of women shouldn't have a career

bad news amerinon, the mouse theory is real.
look for abstracts of articles from behavioural journals. people act /very/ differently in large groups.

Is it not a human response to breed like rabbits when times are hard? The west is not breeding a shit Tom because it knows it doesn’t have to. Meanwhile in shitholes like Africa they breed Andy breed because their life expectancy is so fucking low due to their complete incompetence.

Because its unsustainable to keep a growing rate you retard.

...

I agree. Without proper borders Western countries will be replaced by a limitless flood of immigrants from the more fertile nations.

Western countries do import immigrants. Consider a place like Sweden that is bringing in hundreds of thousands of people from the Middle East and North Africa. They have a really low birth rate, and I believe they want to solve it with immigration.

That's a good point. Where the cost of living is less, having kids is cheap. People do tend to get more of a thing when it is cheap.

Can you explain that a bit more?

With effort having a kid isn't as expensive as people say it is. Plus, you could teach your kid valuable principles like frugality or creativity. Ultimately, would you prefer having some more money in your bank account when you die (to be inherited by the state) or a few children? I know which I would want.

I think this is a big part of it. Women spend more time in schools, getting useless degrees, then they enter the work force, they focus on their careers, they basically have no time for children. The video in the OP references this to some extent.

why does Sup Forums believe its own bullshit?

it's not just the west. it happened the based japanese because they did a speedrun of civilization basically. it's even happening in china now (look up 4-2-1 phenomenon i'm not bullshitting you)

Shitty wages caused by uncontrolled immigration and women entering the workplace, along with the kike media turning men and women into common enemies. The first world has been subverted and d&c'd so kikes can get rich off of low labor costs and high interest debt. Civilization is in decline, enjoy the ride.

birth control and the career is more important than having a family meme

BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING GOOD IN OUR SOCIETY ANYMORE. Nothing but quick instant gratification and distraction from death. Everything is bad and getting worse.

>livability: architecture, urban planning, noise pollution
Absolutely horrible. You can't walk anywhere. Industrial sounds in the city and highway noise in the suburbs. No sidewalks. Nothing beautiful, and thus nothing worth living. There are no public works.

>sense of community
You can't pick your neighbors anymore which means you don't have neighbors anymore. Americans feel more isolated than ever despite living in closer proximity. Hyphenated Americans switched to National Americanism in the early 20th century, but then America decided in the 1980's that its culture will be dedicated to consumerism. Thus, Americans feel communal isolation.

>Reasons to live
Virtually non-existent in public American life

>family
You have no control over your children and you know your children are just going to grow up to live in the same disgusting mechanized life as you

>women voting
>women competitng with men in the workforce for the first time in western history, already failing and separating society even further
>media pushing children as a fun meme or toy and not a necessity
>Jews pushing the childless lifestyle
>the decline of Christianity in the west
>women now forcing themselves to take dominant roles in society because of nu males
>Jews crippling young whites with terrible student loans and raising tuition so they cannot afford to breed
>contraceptives
>birth control pill that eliminates ovulation phase, causing women to desire weaker and less fit men
>soy and estrogen in food
>rise of vegetarianism


to name a few. Take these pills with caution.

Having kids is a pain in the ass nowadays, more than ever

Egypt is really insane, holy shit

>>Jews pushing the childless lifestyle
This is true and very annoying.
And they ALWAYS (no exceptions) use a white couple for this.

I completely agree that this is a big part of it. The more time women spend doing other things, the less time they have for having and raising children. Simple fact.

If he had a wife, the wife could take care of the kids when they were young, and work a part time job as they got older. This is the kind of distribution of labor humans have been doing since time immemorial. In our modern hubris we think we can invent better ways - but I'm not so sure...

I agree that people in poor countries should have fewer kids. But I also think that people in rich countries should have more. Wouldn't the whole world be better off if the rich Western countries sent out doctors, lawyers, and businessmen to the poor underdeveloped countries? We could help both groups at the same time.

I agree. Sadly, I think it will disappoint most women when they realize they are old, childless, and probably alone. But hey, at least you made some extra money, and got a better title at work!

Once you read about this experiment it is easy to see facets of it in your day to day to life. Some people definitely seem demotivated. Like the rise of neets or herbivores in Japan.

Actually, from what I've read, people have fewer children when times are hard, and more when times are easy. Children are an investment of energy so if you were struggling to get by having a kid would be a liability. In a time of plenty though you could afford to have a few who would hopefully grow enough to help you the next time there was trouble.

>Western countries do import immigrants. Consider a place like Sweden that is bringing in hundreds of thousands of people from the Middle East and North Africa. They have a really low birth rate, and I believe they want to solve it with immigration.

1) You shouldn't drink the 'large population = good' kool-aid
2) mass immigration is a tool to keep wages low and debt-slavery high (by imposting more people who will get into debt)
3) Did sweden have a labour shortage? I keep hearing about unemployment problems in the west, not labour shortages

1)Birth control pills. People are still fucking everyday.
2) Being too poor.
3) Bringing life into this current society is borderline child abuse.
4) Marriage is a liability and only for suckers.

>There's no overpopulation in western nations.
There's more people in western nations than those societies desire.

>They're importing people like crazy to make up for the low birth rates.
Short term economic greed; more warm bodies drives down labor costs.


People in the west chose to have 1-2 kids on average; economists and politicians screamed oy vey and started dragging in shit skins to keep the population growing.

Not if we stop giving them food lol

gee i fucking wonder why, could it be the glorification and easy access to murdering your babies?

It's the fucking Nile. No one lives in the desert, fucktards

I know. But the contrast is impressive.

In the very long run that's true, assuming you rule out things like exploring other worlds and moving the bulk of the population there. The Earth can support a lot more people than it does now in the short to medium term though. Plus, Western societies have birth rates that are BELOW replacement - meaning that their populations are shrinking. So, they have the opposite problem of being unsustainable.

Some regions, like the Middle East and North Africa really are overflowing with people. Lots of these people are being welcomed into Europe. This isn't pol-tier nonsense, but real, undisputed fact.

True - Japan I kind of consider like the West. I think this problem happened in China because of the government mandated one child policy. I need to look up if it is happening in places like Korea as well. It seems a certain level of civilization may result in a diminished birth rate. If that's true, it may have dire implications for the future.

I agree these are factors. Immigration means low wages for the poor and middle class. Low wages mean that fewer people can afford children. Fewer children mean the elites decide to bring in more immigrants... Nasty cycle.

I wonder if they will regret their choice when they are 30-40...

What we need to do is simply spread out, it's not that there's too many people, but that we're too congested and it's hard to move outward from cities

>Absolutely horrible. You can't walk anywhere. Industrial sounds in the city and highway noise in the suburbs. No sidewalks. Nothing beautiful, and thus nothing worth living. There are no public works.
youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc

Jews poisoning our food
independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-warn-of-sperm-count-crisis-8382449.html

Sperm quality has dropped considerably but only in the west

if your only workout is walking to and from the car, of course you're going to have low tes and thus bad sperm. Become a sperm donor today.

This, immigration should straight up be brought to a halt when the country expected to take the influx already has unemployment and poverty issues it needs to solve for it's own people, that goes for everyone's countries

I feel this way about the internet sometimes. Everything has been made easy, and by making it is easy, everything is cheap and worthless. I can go to a new place I've never been before, and ask my phone for the best restaurants, and get directions, and so on. It's like an easy game on the easiest possible setting.

In teaching women to be men, we seem to have ignored the fact that now we will have no women to have children.

I think it is probably easier nowadays than ever before. The problem is, nowadays we only want very, very easy things.

This is one of the frightening things about the migrant wave in Europe. Europeans think they barely have a lid on it now. Wait a few years for the next imbroglio in the Middle East and there will be another, probably larger migrant wave incoming. Good luck my European friends. (And also, build a wall)

1) I don't think a large population is necessarily good, but I do think growing is better than shrinking. I also think there is a problem when the native population isn't breeding, and they bring in a bunch of super fertile immigrants who will replace them in a few generations. Then Europe will become Africa.

2) Agreed. It may have other consequences though which I think most people haven't fully appreciated.

3) Sweden did in fact have a labor shortage. There are some other videos on the channel linked in the OP that go into that. Sweden had really high employment, and also an aging population and a lot of benefits they had to pay out. How will they make enough in taxes to pay out retiree benefits to an increasing portion of the population? Maybe they'll solve their labor shortage by importing hundreds of thousands of young men...

The immigrants are meant to help the labor void when the Boomers hit retirement. There will be a big retirement wave over the next 4-7 years as the old farts finally give up their seats.

because all the men have turned queer.

I agree with everything but 3, and MAYBE 4.

This is true, but I think the question is why people in the West chose to have 1-2 kids. If Westerners had 3-4 kids, then there wouldn't be all this immigration and all the subsequent problems.

I think there is a Japanese comic about this, something about "Bad end" that comes quickly versus a worse end.

No doubt this does play a role...

Sadly a lot of people do live where they should not.

Technology will enable to support ever growing quantities of people. In the very long term space travel will contribute basically limitless space. The immediate problem is that people seem to be choosing not to have kids.

Because I replaced the financial responsibility of having children for student loans.

Leftism turning people into non-breeding degenerates and the general concept behind "natural" population. Without predators or restrictions humanity has grown far larger than any other mammal. However even in its own self-made environment the social and economic standing has reached a point where population stagnation and even declination is natural, because it's the most sustainable.

This is when unfettered capitalism interferes and uses its already established influence, to feed into itself to the detriment of humanity instead of maintaining pace alongside it as a sustainable and valuable system to keep relative order.

I've seen this before. Extremely wise and interesting.

That's also an alarming trend I hadn't thought of before. The lowering sperm count I mean. I wonder if it is food that is the cause, or something else - like exercise.

I think immigration should only be permitted between two countries when the vast majority of both countries prefer to stay in their home. A different way of phrasing it - equal numbers should be permitted to immigrate between each country.

Workers per retiree is a critical ratio. Either benefits will go down, taxes up, or retirement age out.

A real possibility. I wonder what would be the cause of that though.

there is an upper limit to how many can be alive at any given time.

I hope your degree is worth it.

This is something like the Mouse Utopia experiment. If you aren't familiar with that, I'd highly suggest you look into it. Fascinating, dark, and depressing.

I think we are far from that limit.

Has nothing to do with reproduction. Africans have overcrowding yet they have an average of 6-8 kids each. It has to do with developed countries, longer lifespans, and kids reaching adulthood therefore not needing to make more.

BECAUSE the elite Jews are using climate change, welfare taxes, and propaganda to cause white middle class intelligent people who have feelings and empathy to stop having kids, thus they import third world idiots to overbreed and replace them, and by doing this they create a perfectly subservient permanent lower class

Crazy taxes, inflation propaganda, everyone working less time for babies, abortions everywhere..
Take your pick.

True. Broad problems, like overpopulation, probably are not motivating individual actors. Potential overpopulation is not a problem for the West, but if it were, there would need to be incentives to motivate people to give up their own potential children.

>why people in the West chose to have 1-2 kids. If Westerners had 3-4 kids, then there wouldn't be all this immigration and all the subsequent problems.

1. It doesn't really matter WHY; there is no reason that is relevant in everyday people's lives that they strive to have any specific number of kids. 'muh replacement rates' and 'muh species' are ivory tower shit.

2. It takes considerably more effort and resources to properly raise a member of industrialized or even modern society than it does to raise a member of an agrarian one. The shift to smaller families as civilization grows and becomes increasingly complex (which actually does effect the everyday people's lives) is completely understandable.

In my rich WASP circles nearly everyone has multiple kids. When I go to the country club I see so many little blonde kids running around it’s unbelievable. I guess only rich people have the ability to reproduce in large numbers these days due to the sheer cost of living and private school tuition.

women suffrage

Yes, that’s part of the jewish plan to eliminate the white race
The white race is the only race that ever was able to threaten their existence so they’ve used economics and politics to reduce our birth rates while importing third-worlders to reproduce like crazy (they all do, that salt bae meme guy has like 12 kids, it’s not a meme)

1. It matters if you want to solve the problem. Replacement rate matters because the natural inclination of a species MUST be to have more children than replacement rate. A species with a different natural inclination could not have evolved. That means something is suppressing the natural inclinations of people, and if we knew what that was, then we could remove it and restore more healthy fertility rates to the people of the West.

2. I don't think that's true. Industrial societies have more capacities and resources than agrarian ones. For example, food is cheaper, washing things are cheaper, transport is cheaper, etc, etc. But you think raising children is relatively more expensive?

There is a saying that only the very rich and the very poor can afford to have kids.

Muh traveling
Muh daycare
Muh nightlife
Muh pet dog
Muh clown car
Muh takeout
Muh luxury shoebox apartment

>waaah why are children so hard to pay for??

I know, but I’m saying a subset of whites (i.e. rich, conservative WASPs) are still reproducing in pretty large numbers (3-4 kids per family).

My country has the highest birth rate of the western world, even when you exclude orthodox and muslims

Yeah exactly.

Good point, I think the main driver of low birth rates is people choosing to live well for themselves rather than having kids, and only the people who can afford to do both are doing both.

+1

Common folk need religion and traditions, which there is none of now. Globalism and materialism are not good enough reasons to live for unless you're one of the "international hyenas."

Where did you get that ridiculous figure?


Do people like you research "Millionaire's Guide to Raising Upper Class Children"?

>Country industrializes
>Country makes money
>Country gets better medicine
>Country starts educating wamen
>Country wamen go to work
>Country starts to have less children, because they don't die as often
>Country starts having small families at older ages
>Country has a bunch of old farts
>Country starts dying off

Cultural Marxism.

>proceeds to babble on about ivory tower intellectual shit after being directly told that absolutely no one (except maybe the most hard core of autists) considers it when deciding how many kids they're going to have

>then we could remove it and restore more healthy fertility rates to the people of the West.
It's only healthy until you start bouncing off the carrying capacity and then you have mass dieing offs, famine and disease like Africa does. It is simply not possible to continue to increase the population while maintaining a high quality of life.

>But you think raising children is relatively more expensive?
The amount of effort required to keep a warm body alive to till the fields is greater than the effort required to raise a lawyer, doctor or physicist in your world? Great I want to you to learn C++ this weekend and I'll learn how to plant some petunias this weekend, let's compare results Monday.

>Why are birth rates in the West declining pol?

People don't fuck as much as they used to. It's that simple.

>It's only healthy until you start bouncing off the carrying capacity and then you have mass dieing offs, famine and disease like Africa does. It is simply not possible to continue to increase the population while maintaining a high quality of life.

I'll add that Western people know this intrinsically (at least before the great dumbing down started) and as such when they can only support 2 or maybe 3 kids they don't proceed to have 10 kids like African niggers.

Then I guess humanity is doomed; few people in this world make that amount.

>living in a city
>ever

I'm glad you don't have kids.

I guess there's nothing wrong with that. My kids will be part of the "Gen X" equivalent of the next generations, a small population of people who were born to millennials under 30. I hope there's an upside to it, like small classroom sizes and good paying jobs when they finish college since there will be less competition within their age group.


And lo and behold, like the Boomer generation, I think most millennials will end up having kids at 40+. They're staunchly against procreation now because it's cool to be in that "perpetual college kid" phase.

As technology and standard of living goes up, birth rate goes down, it's an inverse.

>cost of living
>dating scene a fucking mess
>marriage laws are life threatening
>people are more stressed out than ever
>nihilism on the rise
>drug use on the rise
>most won't be able to provide the quality of life they had growing up to their potential kids
>"wtf why is the birth rate dropping?!"

>gay marriage goes up
>birthrates go down
hmmmmmmmmmm
also this

Because of capitalism.

Both Nazism and Communism promoted having children.

Good. We're overpopulated.

We need another plague

Because people cannot afford to have fucking kids